The following was posted from an MSN conversation between myself (Die Hand Die Verletzt) and my friend (Austin or Kazooka or Kaz) recently. The content is unedited, simply modified for forum reading. Enjoy.

Keep in mind I only propose this attitude towards the stupid and the proletarians. I believe all intellectuals and freethinkers can have all the freedoms they want that are appropriate. It is my idea that freedom belongs to the responsible, and freedom is not a right, but a priviledge.

Do not go and kill people in dimly-lit parking lots, plox. =]


---------------------------------------------------


Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Where do you work, the Marx Brothers Factory?XD

Austin says:
heh? That would be funny if I was a marxist I suppose.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
So what are you now?

Austin says:
What I was the last 4 times you asked me.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
O rly?

Austin says:
I'm not a jumper like you :]

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
That's okay, us jumpers are too busy shooting men like you in the back of the head in dark parking lots

Austin says:
Interesting.

Austin says:
How about you?

Austin says:
Full blown capitalist?

Austin says:
Fascist again?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I've given up on ideologies, for the most part, Kaz

Austin says:
So you've joined the rest of the american culture and are bathing in apathy?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Nope, because Americans who exist in a state of dumbed down numbness are just stupid and unaware of their surroundings. I recognize the world for what it is, it's hateful, greedy, evil, filled with governments that exist to brutalize their own citizens when they get out of hand

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I just want to keep studying for my psych degree, but if I were given the chance, I'd be out there, in those parking lots

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Because people can't handle freedom

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
And some people need to be sacrificed so the rest of society stays happy

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
People are only brutalized once they realize they have no freedom

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
and at that point they need to be disappeared

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Damn I need a smoke

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I don't smoke but I'm really in the mood lately

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Do you smoke

Austin says:
No I don't.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Kool kids smoke

Austin says:
Of course.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
So what do you want to give people?

Austin says:
What do you mean?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I mean if you ever made a difference

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
What do you want to give "the" people

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I know you feel annoyed when I ask you what you are, Kaz, but my memory faculties are really poor so please don't take it personally, alright?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I know you said Anarchist

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I think you said...

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
market anarchist

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Richtig oder falsch?

Austin says:
Freedom. Absolute freedom. Not government and lies masquerading as freedom.

Austin says:
Yes.

Austin says:
I am an Anarchist.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
This might sound stupid, but since people have differing opinions on what constitutes freedom, what would you describe your society as? Absolute freedom?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
And how would a day in the average day of a regular person in your society be like

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
brb laundry

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
but talk if you wish

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I'll read once I come back

Austin says:
Absolute freedom=Freedom to anything you wish until it affects another's personal liberty.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Okay the problem I see with that is while gas prices are high and lots of people spend hours at Social Security Administration getting their food cards in lines that go out the building, they're perfectly fine and a lot of them think they're happy and think they have freedom

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
They watch lots of sports, have barbeques on time to time, and they drink their beer...

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
See movies

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Why do they need freedom/

Austin says:
Ha. Easy just to say they are sedated with capitalism. But if you know as well as I that these people are not happy. We drink our beer and watch our movies to escape the harsh realities from which we live. We do not enjoy our days, our routines, our lives. That is why we need change. We need change to stop the injustices that happen every day. To give people back their lives. To feed the poor. To heal the sick. The list goes on and on.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I'm not a capitalist nor an anti capitalist, so maybe my example includes North Korea perhaps. But Kaz, they don't know they aren't happy, at least the ones we're talking about. It doesn't matter if life is harsh or not, they *think* they are happy, and regardless of if that is indeed a lie or not, it doesn't change anything because they don't care. Feeding the poor isn't necessary, most

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
people couldn't care about the poor. I don't see people going out to give blood that often, it's why we have shortages. People simply don't care.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
And if people aren't dying by the millions, this world overpopulates.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
People just need to die so we can go on drinking our beer.

Austin says:
They don't know they are not happy? Sure they do. This is why the alcoholic attempts to cure his "disease". It's not that they do not know they are not happy, its the fact they do not know what else to do. The controllers over our relatively new culture have succeeded in rooting out all other options by mocking, starving, beating, and jailing. We are branded terrorists by the real terrorists.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Should people who think like me, and do these things, be called agents of chaos, or protectors of the public good? I don't hear many people saying they aren't happy. And the ones who say they are unhappy can just go on saying that, they won't change anything. Why shouldn't the masses of people be dumbed down, beaten, and tortured?

Austin says:
Over-population is an exaggeration. The only reason we see over population currently is that capitalism has effectively moved the majority of people into condensed locations for work.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
It's necessary for our society.

Austin says:
Fuck society.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Fuck freedom

Austin says:
What authority does society hold over yours, mine, or anyones personal happiness.

Austin says:
Society is created.

Austin says:
by those who wish to maintain their power.

Austin says:
It is an illusion to fool us, and your buying it.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I'm not fooled by anything, I myself said why should they know it's not happiness. They give people like me power, and people like me give them happiness, and when they aren't happy enough and make a commotion, we kill them to stay in power. And by staying in power we keep society running, keep them fed, keep them housed, and the ones who aren't, are simply ignored by society.

Austin says:
I thought we just went over how they are not happy. Just because you do not personal hear them say, "Hey, man, I'm not happy", does not mean they are. By examining our culture we can see the majority of us are not. We often mask how we feel, in order maintain our role in the herd of sheep. If we act independently, we are mocked and are considered outcasts.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
My point though is that what they think is irrelevant, as long as they behave correctly they won't be brutalized

Austin says:
And why they behave "correctly"?

Austin says:
And I realize this.

Austin says:
But It does not mean I have to support it.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
They behave correctly because if they're just regular people without money, and they'll get arrested with a convenient amount of marijuana on them.

Austin says:
do they*

Austin says:
I guess I meant to ask, Why do they have to? Why do you support a system that chains a human to unhappiness.

Austin says:
If we examine history

Austin says:
Brutality always fails.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
It's not like I'm blind to this at all, I believe in it, because this world is evil, and if we want to survive and prosper, we have to become just as evil, and perhaps more so, to survive. I honestly believe people should be happy as long as they don't become a problem. Let people be happy unless it's part of some greater plan to disappear them, too. History is a history of wars, and terrible suffering

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
When has brutality failed?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
We're still fighting wars

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Genocide rages in Sudan

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Has it failed, truly?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Has a single generation of humankind gone without war?

Austin says:
"this world is evil, and if we want to survive and prosper, we have to become just as evil, and perhaps more so, to survive." How about we change it. You

Austin says:
you

Austin says:
sorry

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
no problem

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
MSN has a character limit

Austin says:
you have just admitted you share the same sense of right and wrong with me, why can we not change it instead of becoming that evil.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Do you think you're going to survive or prosper very long? When you get out of high school and you start being politically active as an anarchist, the government is going to tail your ass. If you want money in this life, you're going to have to bend over like all of us and pay tens of thousands of dollars for college degrees and work some career making tons of money if you're lucky

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Well I think people should be happy as long as they don't become *problems*

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I wouldn't say that's the same sense of right or wrong =/

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Do you want to know why I think I feel this way?

Austin says:
I'd rather be black-bagged, have my ass put in Guantanamo, and executed before I ever support or play a active role in this system.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Then how will you have your freedom or happiness you value so much

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
If you're another slave

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
A dead slave

Austin says:
I'd rather die for it.

Austin says:
Then, slave away my life in it.

Austin says:
(this system) that is

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Understandable

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
A lot of people believe the same way

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
They'd die for their beliefs

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
But Kaz, the true test of a man's character is if he'd live for his beliefs

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Dying is the easy part

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Enduring the system is the true test

Austin says:
In that, i'm not a slave. I would actively be living my beliefs, outside the peramiters of your precious society. If i see something Iike, I'll take it.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I don't think my society is precious

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I think my surroundings are precious

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I own a cat, believe it or not

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I love her very much

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I live in a decent and clean apartment overlooking a downtown park

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I go to get Chinese food from the farmer's market every weekend

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I buy things for my mother, like jewelry, on occasion, from the Reiki lady

Austin says:
How do I live for my beliefs in a way that contradicts what I believe? Really, are you just pulling stuff out of your ass to play devils advocate.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Not really

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
What I'm saying is that I want to find my own happiness, and if I ever become rich enough to become part of this that I advocate, I'd gladly.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
And if I don't, I want to enjoy life

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I don't want to waste my time bettering people I don't care about you

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Er

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
That came out badly

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I don't care about*

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
lol

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I do care about you, as my friend

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
That's why I'm talking with you

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Because I like to discuss things with you

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I'm also telling you these things so I understand them myself

Austin says:
I understand that. But the very root of this system Urgs me. For the fact I can not be happy within it. I guess I care about humanity too much, but its not just that. I'm fully aware of whats going on, and I fully understand how they control me. I can not stand that. Something in me says I must fight it, for me to allow them to profit off my attempts to be happy kills me inside.

Austin says:
And in that

Austin says:
I want to make others realize whats going on.

Austin says:
So we can change it.

Austin says:
So we can ALL be happy.

Austin says:
Instead of the few.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I hope you know I'm not demented enough to go out and shoot people in dark parking lots. I wouldn't kill you. And I understand what you mean, Kaz, by the things you say, and believe in. You have a purpose to your beliefs. I think I do too but you might not believe it.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I certainly don't agree with you anymore but I think you're intelligent, I just hope you can find some happiness without getting yourself killed

Austin says:
So as your friend. You fully accept that the government holds the authority to kill, beat, or jail me because I make to much of a fuss.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
That's not entirely true, I don't believe anything has authority, I'm rather nihilistic in that sense. The government simply has authority because it has the tanks and the bombs

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
But it also has my support because without the government our society wouldn't be the same and I think it's fine the way it is. I don't see any reason to improve it by granting people freedoms.

Austin says:
Alright, going upon that premise, what if we organized, what if we took he authority to change that the few have the bombs and the tanks, and instead we did? What then? What if we did not need these bombs, these thanks, these religions to control the masses, this money to keep the few at the top, this waste to main the profit. What if there was the slightest possibility that we could change all this, why would you not be for it? I just don't understand how any rational human being can say that it's perfectly ok to accept injustice because it's the status quo, and attempting to change it would be tooo hard.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Let me think of that for a second, you do raise a good point.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I feel the way I do (I don't say believe because that's a strong word) because I hate people. I hate humans. I hate their greed, their lust, their incredible intolerance of each other, their willingness to destroy themselves. They're animals, and I value my cat more than I value a starving child in Africa I see on pictures. If you gave that child food, what would be the point? It would grow up in

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
a society without law or justice

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
It's like orphaned children

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
They just grow up unhappy anyways

Austin says:
fragmentary resistance to any one aspect of that regime—environmental destruction, police brutality, child abuse, racism, employee ennui—can only fail. The totality itself must be contested, the basic paradigms as well as their specific manifestations . . . not in order to impose another totalitarian order, but to open new horizons for everyone.

Austin says:
So in a sense. Feed a poor man, but at the same time do not call that good. Oppose everything this system perpetuates.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Since when has government been successfully contested? People overthrow governments and put themselves in power

Austin says:
Why must you move your point? You know well as I Anarchists revolutions have been successfully staged, before being crushed by other state-entities. Of course the Socialist, or Communist revolutions turn into the totalitarian bullshit, or just another bloody civil war in a power struggle. But thats where Anarchism differs.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
... I responded to your statement that it must be contested

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
But how have they been successfully staged if they fail?

Austin says:
I realize you responded, but thats not really what we were talking about. Your point before was that if I feed a man, he will just continuely living horridly, my point was that you must contest all aspects of it so you can feed him as well as make your fellow man happy.

Austin says:
They have been staged, but as I said, state-entities have crushed them.

Austin says:
Larger revolutions must take place

Austin says:
before permanence can be established.

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Okay. I didn't exactly articulate that if people are given their dosage of society, they should just live horridly. They should be given happiness as long as they can handle it. People who become a problem should be disappeared as I've said before, and never found again. How are you so sure anarchism will succeed?

Austin says:
What do you mean, "people who become a problem"

Austin says:
well I need sleep

Austin says:
I worked 8 hours

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Okay

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
We can talk tomorrow

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Get some sleep man

Austin says:
Alright

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Oh

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Austin

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
May I post this, censoring your username, on a forum?

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
I'll censor private information

Austin says:
Of course

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
And give you a link

Die Hand Die Verletzt says:
Thank you


Edited by Leoben (07/03/08 02:17 AM)
_________________________