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#102372 - 08/22/15 12:10 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: antikarmatomic]
Bodie45 Offline
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Posts: 365
That is the funny thing about followers, they have a tendency to attack anyone who disagrees with their leader no matter how strange the thoughts of the leader may be.

I have one good advantage and that is I am a small defensive lineman or a big linebacker and I also have that biker look so most might think about it but unless they are ALL IN with a fight they just smart off and walk away, either way, 1-2 or more does not bother me for some reason, I have said before that a buttkick'n never hurt anyone, although I say that with a 0 in the loss column lol.


Edited by Bodie45 (08/22/15 12:14 AM)
Edit Reason: me, me, me I tell you
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#102374 - 08/22/15 01:53 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: Bodie45]
antikarmatomic Offline
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I hear ya'- and cool! I've definitely lost a few, but that's sorta how you learn (or at least how I've learned) which becomes, sort "weird" in that the best advice I can offer anyone is basically "make mistakes, and do so as frequently as possible" 'cuz that's sorta what it takes to either make or break a person.

Even if I "win" (quote unquote) it's not like I don't get banged-up. Seldom, if ever, are my victories flawless. Maybe I should eat more spinach? I dunno, but I'm not a cartoon... I bleed, bruise, and what-not - and the pay-off just isn't all that great. 'never has been.

Like, OK I put a guy in the hospital, but it's not as if that makes my dick hard or anything, I kinda give a shit more about not having to deal with the minor cuts and bruises that occurred as a result. Or in other-words... I like me more than I could possibly hate anyone.

Sure, I won, but it doesn't feel good.

I was mentioning this to a friend a lil earlier... have you ever actually broken someone's bones? It's actually not all that great of a feeling, and the sound is disturbingly indescribable. And it's tough one, from my POV. I value my life, people care about me / I care about other people (etc) so I kinda "have to" go full-force - there's just no other way around it.

I'd prefer if people were "cool" and could, ya' know, just discuss their opinions, but that's seldom the case. You and I - we're talking about a stupid bar fight - one which I'm not terribly proud of, even if I did "win". Magnify that whole deal by several million, and we're looking at the essence what wars are fought over and possibly why figure-heads get shot in the___ head... typically.

Human nature. *shrugs*
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#102382 - 08/22/15 11:49 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: AK
Speaking of which - double pay-back we didn't start the fire


Right because it doesn't matter if you thought the Health Care Bill was a good idea, or even relevant to your existence because obviously plenty of other people do. Its Constitutionality however, gets to the heart of the impact of a Cult of Personality.

It's all legal maneuvering, knowing how to play the game. Such as calling it a tax vs. a mandate. Even if the 7% affected cry out, the louder voice tends to mute it.

 Originally Posted By: CJ Roberts
“The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”


He did promise HOPE and CHANGE after all



Paying higher premiums or being subjected to an additional 'tax' isn't a bother to those unaffected. Aside that it pulls on the heart strings of people that believe that people denied medical care for a pre-existing condition and can't pay out of pocket, shouldn't be sacrificial lambs.

The 'greater good' is tailor made for idealists. On the flip side you have the opposing side calling Obama a Black Magician/Alchemist.

So either way, pro/con, the personality holds up. The fire keeps blazing whether you have a notion to throw water on it or just wait it out to see it fizzle out on its own. It's just 'noise' what you do when you hear it, is a choice.

It's been argued that the choice has already been made for you, or that your choices are held hostage by a person in power but there's always a choice to be made.

If there are cults of personality here or elsewhere, what you choose to do when faced with them is still up to you. Even if there's influences and other noise to consider.
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#102386 - 08/22/15 02:43 PM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: antikarmatomic]
Bodie45 Offline
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Do not get me wrong, I have gotten out of more fights than I have gotten into just because they were a waste of my time. Sometimes the pleasure just ain't (I know bad word) worth the strain as it has been sung.

I broke a guys jaw at a job I had when I was around 20, we were playing around and he got pissed about something so he threw a punch at me (bad idea) so I grabbed him by the neck and pushed him up against a forklift and unloaded a straight right hand. I was fired for that although the bosses eventually hired me back because the rest of the employees took my side on it, even had one guy almost punch the dude again for getting me fired, lol.

I do not recall if I heard any noise though, noisy place.

I have a long fuse, unless you attack me physically, then all bets are off. I can take verbal abuse, not a big deal, I always like to tell people that "I have been called worse by better people than you" which normally gets them more worked up. \:\)


It is hard to find people that can just sit down and discuss shit without all the crap. It's this liberal PC world we live in today.


Edited by Bodie45 (08/22/15 02:52 PM)
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#102387 - 08/22/15 04:58 PM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: Bodie45]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: B4
Sometimes the pleasure just ain't (I know bad word) worth the strain as it has been sung.
'Seems we're of a somewhat similar temperament in that regard. While fighting in a controlled environment can actually be a fun and (dare I say?) wholesome activity, when shit hits the fan in the real world, it's seldom worth it.

Except, of course, for these scenarios
 Originally Posted By: B4
we were playing around and he got pissed about something so he threw a punch at me (bad idea) so I grabbed him by the neck and pushed him up against a forklift and unloaded a straight right hand.


It is one's duty to defend oneself. I'd say you did the right thing, even if there were consequences involved. Not that I'm telling you anything you don't already know, but you have to weigh it out; unfortunately you're seldom, if ever, afforded the time to do so.

There's a certain "boundary" beyond which you just have act... where that line-in-the sand is drawn varies from person to person, but I think we all have one. It's not something we necessarily analyse or reason over - it's something that, like anything else, you just end-up cultivating a "feel" for.

How can I tell the difference between someone up in my face and posturing vs someone up in my face who is actually a threat? I've been mulling this over for a while and I've reached no conclusions - it's something in the eyes. This intrigues me to no end. Kinda like, if you've ever been walking in the forest and you see a snake - something triggers in such a way that you're aware of it almost an instant before you actually see it.

The first man off the line gets the point.

 Originally Posted By: B4
"I have been called worse by better people than you"


Right on. I may steal this (or may modify it to include 'including myself')

Back to topic, though, there's a certain "type" of person who just "are" their beliefs and ideologies. Without these things, they are basically just epithelial blood-sacks. 'Turns out that there are a lot of them, and that they will hurt you if questioned - even if only for the sake of discussion.

That whole "you are not your opinions" thing that the frequenters of this and other similar forums are very familiar with is, apparently, not so common knowledge. So "smile pretty and watch your back"

The sun is setting on the day of "the warrior poet". Perhaps this is what today's "leaders" are counting on, and perhaps they are winning. Who needs insight when you can have legions of soulless automatons fighting your battles for you.



come what may.


Edited by antikarmatomic (08/22/15 05:02 PM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avY4aCKpdvs
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#102389 - 08/22/15 05:29 PM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Quote:
I'm wondering if it really matters what the "Leader" does, it's the people that follow them and why.


It does matter what the leader does. The followers must resonate with their leader. It's best done if the leader mirrors their own thoughts and feelings. Germans heard in Hitler's passionate speeches what they had been thinking for quite some time but were too apathetic or cowardly to voice it. The leader must tell people what they want to hear and the last thing people want to hear is the truth. If Hitler had told the Germans - "Look. You caused the war together with your allies and you lost. Now, you suffer the consequences. Well... c'est la vie. Suck it up and act wiser in the future." - nobody would have followed him. The truth is ugly. The lie is better.

I don't know if you read "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. If not, I strongly recommend it. It tries to explain the psychology behind fanatical mass movements, which are by their nature linked to the cult of personality. Hoffer wrote: "A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business." People who create the cult of personality and those who follow them are usually disgruntled people, disappointed with themselves and their lives for various reasons. They lack hope they can change anything in their personal lives for the better so they sacrifice their individual selves for the cause, they lose themselves in the collective, in the ideal, something that is greater than themselves. When you look at Hitler's personal life, he was a total loser. He dropped out of school, was rejected by the Academy so he couldn't pursue his hobby, painting, he lived in homeless shelters for some time, had a difficult relationship with his father etc. And he attracted losers to himself.

Mind that by saying "losers", I don't necessarily mean people living in poverty but people who became disappointed and alienated, people whose life perspectives got worse and they were frustrated and angry because of that. Such people are easily charmed by the charismatic personality of a leader who is ready to tap into the source of their discontent and offer them easy solutions.


Edited by Czereda (08/22/15 05:34 PM)
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#102390 - 08/22/15 05:55 PM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
don't know if you read "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. If not, I strongly recommend it. It tries to explain the psychology behind fanatical mass movements, which are by their nature linked to the cult of personality. Hoffer wrote: "A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business."


I have and on that point the 'appeal' differs from person to person. Look at the people that got behind the Occupy Movement. It wasn't any one charismatic person or even ideal. It seemed to be a way for the discontent to vent about student loan debt, how unfair it was that a small percentage were seemingly hoarding wealth and other ideas like that. People went looking for leaders and when they couldn't find them, the idealism was enough to keep it going.

In Hitler's case his timing was just right. The ideals were there, they had been shared by other figures. Hell he penned Mein Kampf while incarcerated. When the opportunity arose for symbols and other organized propaganda, it was a way for the timid to 'come out' into the public eye and agree with a lot of the sentiment.

On a smaller scale say with a small circle of friends or associates, the thing cultivated is typically the way a person can fan attention their way to personal advantage. I think most of the time people just want to get in on that. If they affiliate with X person then they hope that some of that will rub off on them, or a benefit by proxy.



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#102393 - 08/22/15 06:55 PM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: antikarmatomic]
Bodie45 Offline
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Posts: 365
 Originally Posted By: AK47
That whole "you are not your opinions" thing that the frequenters of this and other similar forums are very familiar with is, apparently, not so common knowledge


That and "You are not your own ideas" has always puzzled me, I still believe you are your own ideas and opinions until those things are changed. They run like a program on your computer until you delete it and install a different one.


Interesting song AK and a bit of good food to chew on at that \:\)
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#102396 - 08/23/15 06:50 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: SIN3]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Vernon Reid's guitar work is good stuff. Living Colour is a great band.

Cult of personality is just another form of celebrity. A few simple principles should be used when comes to heroes/role models/celebrities.

• A figure is not likely to be the person portrayed.

• There is the writer and there are the words. Rarely did the writer actually live by them. If the words are good, keep them and forget the writer.

• Don't let anyone tell you who should inspire you or be your hero. Don't let anyone tell you who to hate either.

I think it was said well by one of the few people I do look up to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlTr2GSVUGg

Side note: Once someone starts rambling about Obama (either for or against) it's a good sign they have absolutely nothing of value in their head.


Edited by TV is God (08/23/15 06:50 AM)

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#102412 - 08/23/15 09:41 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: TV is God]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: TV is God
Don't let anyone tell you who should inspire you or be your hero. Don't let anyone tell you who to hate either.


Which is why the personality can hold up in some cases, I don't think it's always a negative thing. Inspiration can be beneficial. I'm often inspired by creative people. I think it falls on the con side when the choice you make is to just worship and don't allow the inspiration to move you to create something of your own. Put your own unique mark on it, mimicry isn't all that flattering.
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#108068 - 08/14/16 08:07 PM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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I decided to resurrect your topic because, imagine that, I've just heard from Jesus. It turns out he's reincarnated and he now lives in Russia. He sent me a postcard from Siberia:



But all joking aside, I accidentally stumbled upon a video about Vissarion, though the cult is by no means a brand new one.

The Church of the Last Testament

So Vissarion is a former policeman who after losing his job had a great epiphany that he is the Word of God. What is the better way to deal with unemployment than becoming a Messiah, eh? He gathered followers and established a settlement in Petropavlovka, in Siberian taiga. After a while his cult got larger, attracting followers not only in Russia but also worldwide. Many people gave up their jobs and sold their apartments to move to Siberia and build wooden huts there.

"Jesus" wears long white or red robes and lives on the top of the sacred mountain. From time to time he gives sermons on the womb of nature or via Skype. His teaching isn't very different from other sects. He teaches about love, brotherhood, the necessity of simple life, the evils of modern civilization, UFO and oncoming apocalypse - the Great Flood. His followers lead a very simple life, they don't use cash or cars but build their houses with their own hands and grow their own food. They are vegetarians. There are traditional gender roles. Women are supposed to cook and bring up children. Men are supposed to do more masculine work like cutting up wood and building huts or doing agricultural work, which is quite primitive, without the use of the machines.

In the video, the Western tourist is quite fascinated with the life of the community, especially with their simple life and close bond with nature and also the atmosphere of fraternity. People seem to be happy, they worship their teacher, celebrate his birthday instead of Christmas and pray to his pictures. There is an icon of Vissarion in every house.

There is plenty of information about him online, there are also several videos. Not all of them are as idealistic as the one I linked to. Vissarion is harshly criticized by the former disgruntled members who accuse him of living in luxury, breaking up families or brainwashing people. But the most amusing are comments by the outraged Christians, who call the man a fake Jesus or an Anti-Christ. It's laughable because Christians in the beginning were also considered freaks at best and a dangerous sect at worst. And really, are Vissarion's followers all that different from an average Christian?

I wonder why the guy has such an appeal among Russians. Perhaps, people long for something sacred, numinous. They are fed up with the emptiness in their lives, consumerism, political situation and also with their Orthodox Church. He brought up Rasputin to my mind.


Edited by Czereda (08/14/16 08:17 PM)
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#108079 - 08/15/16 09:33 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Indeed. A person in existential crisis should be avoided in my opinion. If their lives feel empty and the only solution is to seek out another person to fill that void - that's a red flag to me.

Incidentally, I watched the 1994 documentary "Children of God" over the weekend. What stood out to me the most was that the family that was liberated are still Christians. Even after all that they endured in the cult, they are still blaming individuals rather than looking within for the problem.

A recent article I read asserts that people with higher IQ's tend to do better living alone, then crowded by people (doesn't matter if it's family). I'm not as concerned with the science behind it as I am, personal observations. Look around, check your family and friends and see who is flourishing in solitude and which are utterly saddened and depressed by it.

One estranged family member of mine is constantly whining about being alone, feeling abandoned, etc. It doesn't matter how much her children visit or how many pets she has. It will never be enough.

It's just the weirdness of those qualities that make us human. For a thinking species, we certainly are conflicted about it.
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#108086 - 08/15/16 11:03 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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I wonder about that. Seems to me a lot of people here consider themselves loners, but I really don't know for sure. I've come across the statement a few times on this forum.

While I live alone, I do like it very much, and I don't like a lot of close proximity to people in general, unless of course its a girlfriend or temporary mate.

Then its A OK \:\)

I have one friend who I see maybe once a month. They also seem to think I'm going nuts, and despite my telling them I don't want to go to their dinner parties, and that I like to be with one person at a time instead of in a group, they insist that I 'just need more people' in my life, or that my lizard brain is taking over.

Or some other bullshit, like that I'm only a Satanist because I don't have enough 'rainbows and cheer...'

Its where I live. I have got to get the fuck out.

Is it so fucking hard to think that maybe some people really do prefer solitary lifestyles?

A good mate, or rather, a good lay on a regular basis, and one cool friend.

One way you might be able to tell how 'needy' people are, is to ask them what their idea of a good camping trip is like.

Some will say they want to pack so many items and food they might as well bring their fucking house, and also have every one of their friends and acquaintances come along.

Some like me, will tell you, just myself, or, at most, two other people. A sleeping bag and snacks.

Good times ahead.
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#108087 - 08/15/16 11:26 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
I wonder about that. Seems to me a lot of people here consider themselves loners, but I really don't know for sure. I've come across the statement a few times on this forum.


Those concerns I mentioned? Even your own children won't always understand you. If it helps to ease my kid's mind to post silly pics on Facebook, seems like a simple solution to me. It leaves him some room to breathe and worry about his own life and career in the military.


Me? My history has demonstrated to me that I need my own space. I don't react well to being crowded and friends up my as 24/7 annoy the hell out of me. Dating/marriage - same thing. It fits like a straight-jacket. I'm 'free-spirited' in that all emotionality is temporary and flighty. I consider sex more of a social communication than an indication of contentedness.

I'm social when it suits me but I'm never lonely when it doesn't. It's been said that if you catch yourself seeking your own company before any other that this is a sign of maladaptation. I disagree, always have. I think it's even weirder to see it that way. It's as if people seek out others to escape their own thoughts and their own company. Don't get me wrong, I see the personal benefit in outside perspective but I often find more to disagree with than be agreeable to.
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#108100 - 08/16/16 12:33 AM Re: Cult of Personality [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I consider sex more of a social communication than an indication of contentedness.


Sex is complex on a psychological level. A social communication you say? I guess everyone is a little different in bed one way or another. I admit I've never considered it a communicative process, though I can perhaps conjure a few ideas.

Sex is influential in showing you care for someone, or that you enjoy their company, or even as a sign of trust, or mutual fun, vitality etc.

I do see it as a form of contentedness in a way. Physical catharsis, like having a good meal or feeling the need for exercise. Simply postulating here, perhaps you mean something else altogether.

I remember a time where I had sex every day, and I felt a lot better. I could focus more, it took the edge off. More relaxed, but it could also be my mental conditioning, or that I'm a man, or that I have different variations in my individual qualities.

Perhaps one could live a life of abstinence. Maybe it only comes down to a kind of personal psychological game, but I would be making a damn fool of myself if I said life was better for me without it.

On the flip side, life could be worse than what I have now even if I was getting regular sex.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I'm social when it suits me but I'm never lonely when it doesn't. It's been said that if you catch yourself seeking your own company before any other that this is a sign of maladaptation. I disagree, always have. I think it's even weirder to see it that way. It's as if people seek out others to escape their own thoughts and their own company.


I get your point about always needing people. Sometimes I use company and activity with others to 'escape' if you will. In this case it becomes a temporary distraction, or rather, a conditioned habit of thinking and acting differently around other people.

I can't say I love everything about myself, or that I absolutely can't stand people. Sometimes its nice to have me alone, and sometimes its nice to indulge others and loosen up on the 'me' factor for a while.

Whatever keeps your sails well winded.

@ Czereda: A Jesus freak, with Jesus freak followers. What's new?
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