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#1036 - 10/10/07 07:42 PM The Revolution Has Already Been Won
Dev Samael Daval Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Toledo, OH


The Revolution Has Already Been Won - Part 1

The Revolution Has Already Been Won - Part 2


I'm looking forward to your feedback.

In service,
Dev Samael Daval
_________________________

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#1039 - 10/10/07 09:16 PM Nothing is Won... [Re: Dev Samael Daval]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
First off…

“Barter is the universe's natural system of currency. It is the free and willing exchange of something of tangible worth with something else that is of worth to an individual.” ~ Dev Samael Daval

I believe you are touching on communism… While real silver and/or gold will retain a value in any money system I would rather put my chips in ingots not coins or paper…

Everything in your video and this Liberty dollar website just screams sales scam… I mean seriously… This is almost too asinine to believe… We are to believe that people who had $20 pieces I am assuming they were coins made from $20 worth of actual silver, made a profit when silver prices doubled… Why sure they did if they sold said coins for the metal they were made of… No other way if the value is concurrent with the dollar…

“Have Fun” “Do Good” “Make Money”

All this doing little to nothing at all… You know what they say… I was not surprised at all to hear you say contact me at the end of your video…

Good luck marketing to the sheep…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1041 - 10/10/07 10:57 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: ta2zz]
Dev Samael Daval Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Toledo, OH
 Quote:
I believe you are touching on communism… While real silver and/or gold will retain a value in any money system I would rather put my chips in ingots not coins or paper…




Early America must have been formed by a bunch of conspiring commies because they had the idea that 'He who has the money has the power' and the people should have that power.

The only difference between a coin and an ingot is the shape and weight. Of course, the criminal Federal Reserve does not allow Liberty Dollar to call gold and silver Libertys "coins", but that's another story.

What do you have when you separate your ingot into small flat round things?



 Quote:
Everything in your video and this Liberty dollar website just screams sales scam… I mean seriously…


Then we really need to contact one of the criminal branches of our government and kindly inform them that a presidential candidate appears to be backing a sales scam.



 Quote:
This is almost too asinine to believe… We are to believe that people who had $20 pieces I am assuming they were coins made from $20 worth of actual silver, made a profit when silver prices doubled… Why sure they did if they sold said coins for the metal they were made of… No other way if the value is concurrent with the dollar…



I suggest some serious study of the monetary system and the Federal Reserve.



 Quote:
“Have Fun” “Do Good” “Make Money”

All this is doing little to nothing at all… You know what they say… I was not surprised at all to hear you say contact me at the end of your video…

Good luck marketing to the sheep…



I'll send you an ingot purse with steel ribbing for when you need to go to the market. Let me know how that works out for you.


By the way, Liberty Dollar offers the service of being able to design your own coins. So you could easily get a coin made. Imagine a Ta2zz Liberty that has your mug on one side and an image of you straining to haul a cart full of ingots to the market on the other.

A 600 Club Liberty would be a fun idea. Thousands of years from now it'd be quite the collectors item.


In service,
Dev Samael Daval
_________________________

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#1042 - 10/10/07 11:04 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: ta2zz]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
There is one universal law.

"The Mafia does not like competition."

The government is simply the most influential Mafia in the USA. If they felt the Liberty Dollar was a threat, they would simply kill them all in a Wako like operation. My thought is that the government is simply waiting until that companies treasury gets to the point where it would be worth the hassle to confiscate it.

Now let me be very clear to the board here. I truly believe that the US Dollar is dead. The government is intending to replace it with the Amero. A new currency similar to the Euro. There are real news articles where officials refer to this plan. Simply Google it for proof.

Because of this, I seriously recommend you all start converting some of your savings into Euros, Gold coins, or Silver. This will protect your savings as the Dollar collapses. As of 10-10-07 silver coins can be gotten for $15 US, 1/10 oz Gold coins for $90 US, and Euros for $1.40 each.

For those ignorant of how the Dollar works, Originally the Dollar was based on Gold. What that actually meant was that you could go to a bank and trade your Dollar for a specific amount of Gold or Silver. When the government stopped this process, they needed some way to stabilize the Dollars value. They did this by using politics. What they did was made the US Dollar the currency for all oil trades. So basically the Dollar became linked to the price of oil.

Within the last few years, more and more countries have dropped the dollar as a means of trading oil. This has resulted in serious instability in the Dollar that is unrivaled in modern history.

Google "Peso at all time high Dollar" or "Canadian Dollar passes US" You will find the recent news articles talking about foreign curacy values Showing record rises against the Dollar. What this means in English is that the Dollar has fallen in value against those curacies. In other words, the dollar is worth less.

So what does this mean?

Its simple. For the first time in history the Dollar is no longer anchored to anything at all. Its flying all over the place like a kite circling in the wind. Its a very catastrophic situation and the reason the government isn't worried about it is that they intend to retire it. They simply intend to replace it with a new money system.

Let those who have understanding reckon; The Ant and the Grasshopper.

Chris



Edited by MCSA TEK (10/10/07 11:04 PM)
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#1045 - 10/11/07 12:55 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: Dev Samael Daval]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Dev Samael Daval
Early America must have been formed by a bunch of conspiring commies because they had the idea that 'He who has the money has the power' and the people should have that power.


What does that statement have to do with this?

“Barter is the universe's natural system of currency. It is the free and willing exchange of something of tangible worth with something else that is of worth to an individual.” ~ Dev Samael Daval

 Quote:
What do you have when you separate your ingot into small flat round things? The only difference between a coin and an ingot is the shape and weight.


You answered your own question… A specific weight of said precious metal… Or simply smaller ingots…

 Quote:
Then we really need to contact one of the criminal branches of our government and kindly inform them that a presidential candidate appears to be backing a sales scam.


Seriously now…

 Quote:
I suggest some serious study of the monetary system and the Federal Reserve.


Then perhaps it is best off done without an infomercial…

 Quote:
I'll send you an ingot purse with steel ribbing for when you need to go to the market. Let me know how that works out for you.


Something in leather would be nice… Actually a small kit with tin snips and a digital scale would do…

 Quote:
By the way, Liberty Dollar offers the service of being able to design your own coins. So you could easily get a coin made.


Did this sell you on the idea?

 Quote:
A 600 Club Liberty would be a fun idea. Thousands of years from now it'd be quite the collectors item.


YES just like Lincoln and Kennedy dollars, quite the collectors items… If these coins are of precious metal then perhaps you might need a scale and snips still…

Good luck spending self designed coins at any real business…

When and if a revolution happens it will not be so easily won… If you were simply trying to sell us on this I would say fool on me if I bought into it but I really think you believe this…

More power to you…

~T~

P.S. You can easily embed your videos here… No need to send us to youtube…


Edited by ta2zz (10/11/07 12:57 PM)
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1048 - 10/11/07 01:30 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Hello Chris…

 Originally Posted By: MCSA TEK
The government is simply the most influential Mafia in the USA. If they felt the Liberty Dollar was a threat, they would simply kill them all in a Wako like operation. My thought is that the government is simply waiting until that companies treasury gets to the point where it would be worth the hassle to confiscate it.


Who uses this new money? Who accepts it? If somebody tried to pull them out to pay for a tattoo I would first laugh and then tell them to hand me real money… For if I barter for necessities, precious metal, or gems the cost would be worked out in advance… This has supposedly been around for two years now? Who has heard of it before now?

 Quote:
Now let me be very clear to the board here. I truly believe that the US Dollar is dead. The government is intending to replace it with the Amero. A new currency similar to the Euro. There are real news articles where officials refer to this plan. Simply Google it for proof.


I agree with this for the most part…

 Quote:
Because of this, I seriously recommend you all start converting some of your savings into Euros, Gold coins, or Silver.


I agree but are you paying weight value or intrinsic value? That is why I choose ingots…

 Quote:
This will protect your savings as the Dollar collapses. As of 10-10-07 silver coins can be gotten for $15 US, 1/10 oz Gold coins for $90 US, and Euros for $1.40 each.


This is what I am talking about the best I can find with a 1 minute search is;
Prices at close on October 10, 2007
spot gold price: $740.50 Oz.

This puts 1oz of gold coins at $900 or roughly a $150 profit for the government… Weighed ingots anyone?

 Quote:
For those ignorant of how the Dollar works, Originally the Dollar was based on Gold. What that actually meant was that you could go to a bank and trade your Dollar for a specific amount of Gold or Silver.


Was there ever any gold at fort knox?

 Quote:
For the first time in history the Dollar is no longer anchored to anything at all. Its flying all over the place like a kite circling in the wind. Its a very catastrophic situation and the reason the government isn't worried about it is that they intend to retire it. They simply intend to replace it with a new money system.


Perhaps the rumored electric chip system… How much better for them money that is only supported by bytes in a computer… Then if you cause dissent your chip can simply be turned off…

Every civilization before us has built up to become corrupt and fail… Why expect anything different? Perhaps some were not expecting this in their lifetime… I myself began seeing this in “89-90” nothing surprises me on this issue…

Where will you be when privately owned gold and silver becomes illegal?

Let those who have understanding survive the coming storm as best we can…

Peace

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1051 - 10/11/07 04:30 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: ta2zz]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA


 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
I agree but are you paying weight value or intrinsic value? That is why I choose ingots…


Gold bars are valuable and you pay closer to the actual cost of the Gold. This means less mark up. But when it comes to sell them, the dealers often require they be certified or appraised. This adds extra steps and time to the sale.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
This is what I am talking about the best I can find with a 1 minute search is;
Prices at close on October 10, 2007
spot gold price: $740.50 Oz.

This puts 1oz of gold coins at $900 or roughly a $150 profit for the government… Weighed ingots anyone?


The spot price sounds correct. There is a handling fee that coin dealers add to the price of the coin, and also the coin itself has value because a certain coin can become rare or popular. A 2007 1oz Gold Eagle Coin costs around $760 US. The reason 1/4 oz are so much more expensive is because there is around $19 of coin and handling fees per coin. But if your like me and cant afford to throw $760 at a coin dealer, then the $200 1/4 ounce coins are much more reasonable.

Just remember Gold went from $570 an ounce to $740 in one year. You can Pull up the ten year graph and see for your self the reason that even a tiny $20 mark up is worth it.

GOLD

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Where will you be when privately owned gold and silver becomes illegal?

AH! Now that is the problem. The US government banned the private ownership of gold in the 1920's-1930's. The out come of this was mass confiscation.

So yes, there is a definite concern.

Chris
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#1053 - 10/11/07 04:45 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: Dev Samael Daval]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
 Originally Posted By: Dev Samael Daval


By the way, Liberty Dollar offers the service of being able to design your own coins. So you could easily get a coin made. Imagine a Ta2zz Liberty that has your mug on one side and an image of you straining to haul a cart full of ingots to the market on the other.

A 600 Club Liberty would be a fun idea. Thousands of years from now it'd be quite the collectors item.


In service,
Dev Samael Daval


Actually that does sound interesting.

How much would a 600 Club Coin cost us? The cost of gold and silver often drops when buying in bulk. Perhaps several of us could chip in for a group buy.

That is assuming the prices are reasonable.

Chris
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#1054 - 10/12/07 12:03 AM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: MCSA TEK
Gold bars are valuable and you pay closer to the actual cost of the Gold. This means less mark up. But when it comes to sell them, the dealers often require they be certified or appraised. This adds extra steps and time to the sale.

What is the difference between this and a self styled metal liberty disk? Remember this is where we started...

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1106 - 10/16/07 01:44 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: ta2zz]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
I just came across this. Its from the same company. I rather like these.






Here is the LINK
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#1108 - 10/16/07 02:08 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Hmmm intrinsic value and a ½ ounce of silver for $10… Since silver is currently $13.63 an ounce… Again I ask who accepts these coins? Are we being fooled in yet another moneymaking scam?

I have no relations with this website but they seem to offer silver at .29 cents over spot… In pretty one-ounce rounds or bars…

LINK

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1111 - 10/16/07 05:01 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: ta2zz]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
As a coin for purchasing things, almost no one accepts them. But in Coin collecting, these would be considered "tokens". Some collectors collect tokens, but their value is seldom as high as a true coin of the same precious metal.

Now, also don't forget that there are War memorabilia collectors who would be very interested in WW2 era war and anti-war items. So its conceivable that in 50 or 60 years the value of a silver Gulf War Era token "protesting the war" would also fetch a good price.

Chris
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#1114 - 10/16/07 06:19 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
We originally started with this being something about winning the revolution or an infomercial or something...

This turned into a chat about the use of gold or silver to procure the necessities in life should the dollar crash as it appears it will... Saving the value of your money by converting it to gold or silver...

Somehow we are now on intrinsic value 40 - 50 years from now...

;\) Peace

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1156 - 10/17/07 04:35 PM Re: Nothing is Won... [Re: MCSA TEK]
Dev Samael Daval Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Toledo, OH

Almost no one accepts them? Ninety-five percent of businesses will accept the Liberty Dollar.

Using a Liberty is as simple as using a UNITED STATES INC. silver dollar.
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#1176 - 10/18/07 10:36 AM Re: Nothing is Won... (or scams even here) [Re: Dev Samael Daval]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Dev Samael Daval

Almost no one accepts them? Ninety-five percent of businesses will accept the Liberty Dollar.

Using a Liberty is as simple as using a UNITED STATES INC. silver dollar.


Why I must continue to thank you for not letting this amusing subject drop… A simple Google search to try to back up your claim of 95% of businesses accepting the ALD leads me to this page…

ALD FAQS

While reading through the FAQS I stumble across a few realizations…

14. How can I use the Liberty Dollar?
Simply offer the Liberty Dollar in any of its forms: paper, silver or digital, in payment for any good or service. No explanation is suggested. If you are asked about the new Liberty Dollar, keep your answers as short as possible. If the merchant does not accept the Liberty Dollar, simply pay with one of those dreaded Federal Reserve Notes and get on with your life. The current banking empire does not require any knowledge about their money - nor does Liberty Services.


Wow quite possibly the exact thing I would do if trying to pay with monopoly money… Not say much, talk very little, pay with real money if caught out, and get on with life…

Now the coins on the other hand might get accepted as one might accidentally accept a coin from Burma or Canada in your change… Or simply accepted as our coins are fake looking themselves as of late…

I do find it wary of a company who is trying to legally produce currency and is so gung ho for you to promote it to your friends to say as their official word “No explanation is suggested. If you are asked about the new Liberty Dollar, keep your answers as short as possible.” Wouldn’t I also want to sell them on it?

17. Can I use the ALD with non-Liberty Merchants?
YES! The vast majority of merchants who have accepted The Liberty Dollar are NOT listed. Since the money is anonymous and most people do not have the time to sign up Liberty Merchants, most are not listed. Please ask the merchant who accepts The Liberty Dollar from you to contact the Liberty Dollar organization and get listed as a Liberty Merchant so he can start "making money - making change."


Just remember the guidelines suggested in 14… Eh?

Now let us examine where my ideas of you being a scam artist arise…

Knowing from your previous excursions into the chat room of the old forum… Was it not you continually saying you were busy scamming money from people online? Something to do with internet porn? Well the porn part is not important but your nature of bragging how you were scamming is… You are a self titled scammer… Should I think of you any different?

The fact that you try your advertising skills here is expected after all we are simply more people to scam… But do you remember where you are? Do you really think yourself that superior to us all? Or did you not think that someone as myself would call you out on your little money making scheme?

Now as to why I feel the ALD is simply another scam other than your infomercial and the fact that you like to brag about your knowledge with advertising and NLP to us right before this presentation…

13. Can I earn money using the ALD?
YES! In addition to getting the Liberty Dollar at a discount and using it at a profit, you can get the paper Silver Certificates and digital Liberty Dollar at the same discount. Plus Associates earn $100 for every new Associate they sponsor. Yes, you can definitely make money, do good and have fun with the ALD!


19. If I tell my friends/business associates about the ALD, can I get a $100 referral fee?
YES! Liberty Services has a top-of-the-line Affiliate Program with persistent tracking to provide you with the tools to monitor your referral. Since most people want to get their money at a discount and use it at a profit, introduce your friends and business associates to the Liberty Dollar and make $100 when you sponsor them as a Liberty Associate.


20. Is the Liberty Dollar multi-level marketing (MLM)?
NO. All referrals are based on a single tier referral program. You receive a $100 Referral for the people you sponsor. There are no limits or regional barriers, so you can sponsor anyone, anywhere, anytime on the Internet.


This seems to be the reality behind your involvement in the liberty dollar…

Remember people…

“You don't need to find a "Liberty Merchant" to use Liberty Dollars. Just offer the new gold and silver currency to every merchant you meet. You can't tell a real money Merchant from a plastic loving merchant until you offer them real Liberty Dollars.”

You will probably be explaining everything to them when they see you after you sneak one of these bills past them…

To fail early on and realize it can be considered a win if you realize you failed and correct your path…

So either you are a failed salesman in this attempt or you are trying to convince us that you actually believe that the ALD is truly the winning ticket to our troubles and Yes, you can definitely make money, do good and have fun with the ALD!

Good day…

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (10/18/07 10:50 AM)
Edit Reason: removed picture of monopoly money due to the image tag not working in this and the picture forum, replaced link to information, fixed the format…
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1921 - 11/15/07 09:42 AM Re: The Revolution Has Already Been Won [Re: Dev Samael Daval]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
NEW UPDATE

FBI RAIDS LIBERTY DOLLAR.

LINK

Aparently they came in and confiscated all the gold and silver. Including the customer owned gold and silver stored in the bank that actually backs the paper certificates.

Like I said earlier, The Government was simply waiting for the gold and silver levels to build to the highest point possible before they simply came in and took it.


Article
************************************************

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:


I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.


For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.


We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.


But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.


This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.


The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.


I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.


Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.


Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.


Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.


Bernard von NotHaus

*****************************************************
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#1922 - 11/15/07 12:58 PM Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Hello Chris,

Keep in mind the questions put forth in this post are directed to the reader unless you are directly named…

 Originally Posted By: MCSA TEK

Aparently they came in and confiscated all the gold and silver. Including the customer owned gold and silver stored in the bank that actually backs the paper certificates.

Like I said earlier, The Government was simply waiting for the gold and silver levels to build to the highest point possible before they simply came in and took it.


Who in their right mind could read that website and not see a money making scam and this being the solution was surely nothing but a pipedream? I will also point out that there is little on the internet that says anything about this… So I will admit I do not know the validity of this so called email from liberty dollar HQ…

IRS Suffers Defeat: Wages Paid in Gold and Silver Coin

I attach this link because while a different situation it seems to skirt around the laws behind gold and silver value and face value of coins of precious metals (not tokens)…

Assuming this raid and confiscation are true… Lets visit this scam site again…

From the liberty dollar faqs…

“What prevents the Government from seizing the silver/ gold that's stored in Sunshine Minting before or after the customer purchases it? The Government has seized it before so are they allowed to do it again?
The opportunity for the government to seize the gold/silver at Sunshine "before or after" any purchase is very small due to the quick turn-around time on all orders.”


So order fast…

“The only perceived risk is to the gold/silver that is stored for the Gold and Silver Certificates issued as warehouse receipts.”

What? The only perceived risk is the gold and silver that backs the liberty dollar might be confiscated? Is that not the single most important thing that was making this paper anything? Hold your silver tokens what are they worth now? Less than half spot value? Do you wish to purchase tokens or ingots now? Back to the faqs…

Perceived risk because the government has never seized any warehouse receipts because there has never been any warehouse receipts like the Liberty Dollar.”

Is this an admission of guilt? What I read here is the Government has never confiscated something like this, because it is such a new way to scam… But now that we are using it well were expecting it… So buy fast cause we have a fast turn around to get these slugs errr tokens into your hands…

“Plus it is doubtful that the government would want to risk any seizure and hand Liberty Dollar the enormous publicity and draw their unbacked currency into the public spotlight.”

What publicity? How many do you know who has even heard of the Liberty Dollar? I read much more about the failing U.S. dollar than anything ever about this scam…

Except here and I still stand behind my belief that this was originally posted to dupe us and try to make money off of us… Sad really…

They go on to say this…

“As for a general seizure like the Roosevelt Confiscation of 1933, this is utterly impossible simply because the public attitude towards the government has changed and most importantly because gold is now a free commodity on the world market. Any seizure by any government, particularly the US government would drive gold and silver to unheard of prices. And as the government cannot confiscate without paying market value, it would be impossible for the government to outrun the escalating prices on the world market. To learn more why confiscation is utterly impossible, please read Chapter 28, page 244 in "Liberty Dollar Solution" book available for only $5 if you mention this post.”

To learn more send us five of your worthless American dollars yes just $5 and we will send you this pamphlet explaining the “Liberty Dollar Solution”…

“The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.”

From the site on digital dollars…

“All this is a big deal for the Liberty Dollar because over 98% of all transactions do not use notes. They use digital dollars. Just think of how many times you use a check or credit/debit card and you will begin to understand that the Liberty Dollar needed to be in digital form to be successful. Now America's inflation proof currency is available in digital, physical, and paper certificate form.”

Seems like they were pushing the digital form as a good thing…

“I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.”

Did it ever depend on anything else? Most scams do depend on you falling for it…

“Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.”

Good luck see you in 10 or 20 years… Laws are written in double talk to be interpreted at a later date… Do you know how the legal system works?

“Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.”

Note nothing is posted on their website about this… If all their computers were taken how did they email? How come the website says nothing?

I would think this front web page worthy…

So perhaps everyone who possess, tries to use, or sell the Liberty Dollar should have been aware of this possible situation and this next one that I have provided a link to... Note this is dated Oct. 2006.

'Liberty Dollars' Can Buy Users A Prison Term, U.S. Mint Warns

“Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.”

I say they stopped a scam in my eyes, in some eyes it might be seen as protecting the Governments way, others might see it as the public being protected…

“Liberty Dollars are very reasonable given the costs and quality involved. And of course they provide much more protection and profit than the US dollar.
We chose - therefore we are free.”


Where is your protection or profit now? How free does choosing to be get you? Perhaps we should ask some people in jail or some prisoners of war how free they are because they choose…

Seems the majority of people on the site MCSA TEK posted the link to thinks this was just a scam… The fact that not many have added anything to this thread is an indicator that most here feel what needs to be said has been… Also that not many disagree with anything said…

So Samael, You insult me with your jokes of do I know how the monetary system works and your jokes of my likeness straining to carry ingots stamped on my own coin, sending me a steel reinforced ingot purse, etc…

Do you have anything to add? Do YOU know how the laws and legal system work in this country? Anything to say at all on your previous position in this matter?

Good day

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (11/15/07 12:59 PM)
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#1924 - 11/15/07 05:42 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: ta2zz]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
The concept was a good and solid idea. It was a Dollar backed by gold, just like in the old days.

The mistake was in forgetting that governments dislike competition. The government simply waited for the most opportune moment to step in and take their shit. I expect a good amount of the gold will mysteriously disappear. Sad to say, but what else can you expect.

Sam, If you have any of the Ron Paul dollars, PM me. I'm interested in acquiring one.

Chris


Edited by MCSA TEK (11/15/07 05:43 PM)
_________________________
Read about this great Patriot and Vote!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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#1947 - 11/16/07 11:56 AM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: MCSA TEK
The concept was a good and solid idea. It was a Dollar backed by gold, just like in the old days.


“Make money, do good and have fun” Sounds like the makings of a good solid solution to me… If your solution is selling speakers or pre-framed poster art out of a van…

Just like the pyramid scams in the 70's - 80's they were good solid ideas... For the man on top…

You go on to identify the problem in your statement...

What made this illegal? The use of the words “coins” and “dollars” among having a USD domination stamped into it... Basically it was private counterfeit money... That in one of my last posts I showed the companies stand on using it was “just use it”… Say very little…

You also seem to have much trust in this self proclaimed "Monetary Architect" that and the fact that there was actually anything backing up this crap other than his words on a website...

 Quote:
The mistake was in forgetting that governments dislike competition.


Did you read all of my post? It is on their site…

“The only perceived risk is to the gold/silver that is stored for the Gold and Silver Certificates issued as warehouse receipts.”

 Quote:
I expect a good amount of the gold will mysteriously disappear. Sad to say, but what else can you expect.


Again you seem to have so much trust in this scam that you have already decided that if the gold is not there that it must be the governments doing not Bernard von NotHaus pulling a fast one… Even his name sounds fake…

Funny what comes up if you Google Bernard von NotHaus…

New Rarity and Bad Press February 9, 2004

Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves

"threatening" letters have been received via certified mail by all the RCOs and myself from Daniel P. Shaver, chief counsel for the US Mint. The "Treasury Letter" re-hashed the Mint's warning and informed all of us that the Department of Justice has determined that the Liberty Dollar is illegal as per 18 USC Section 486. Of course, that is grossly erroneous as 486 only pertains to passing or uttering an item of gold or silver as government "coin" "legal tender" or "current money."

This is exactly what you were told to do just try to use them and say little…

The Liberty Dollar has never been passed or uttered as government money and they should know that, hence the use of the propaganda machine to extinguish the Liberty Dollar. I think the government is afraid to take the Liberty Dollar to court because they know the law and know that they cannot get a conviction.

I think the government was just waiting until they had enough evidence to prosecute… Nothing more nothing less…

This little excerpt from November 2006 can be found here…

LIBERTY DOLLAR UNDER ATTACK

More dirt

FBI has been investigating the Liberty Dollar since August 2005

 Quote:
Sam, If you have any of the Ron Paul dollars, PM me. I'm interested in acquiring one.


Good luck as people are learning to “Have fun, Do good and Make money” with the Ron Paul dollars on Ebay

Peace

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#2033 - 11/19/07 05:15 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: MCSA TEK]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
It sounded like a reasonable idea, but still - people who lost money off it were nevertheless duped.

I'd be cautious in investing any money in a scheme vulnerable to 'intervention' by governments or others.


Edited by Mequa (11/19/07 05:17 PM)
Edit Reason: 'Intervention'

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#2034 - 11/19/07 05:22 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: MCSA TEK]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Of course, if you can get your hands on real gold and silver, it may be a good investment in the face of the falling Dollar (for Americans that is).

But I would strongly recommend an improved security system for keeping large quantities of precious metal, for thieves break in and steal.
Good job you are allowed to arm yourselves over there!

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#2042 - 11/19/07 05:57 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: Meq]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Mequa
It sounded like a reasonable idea, but still - people who lost money off it were nevertheless duped.


The only people not ripped off are the guys making big American money off of these play coins on ebay...

 Quote:
I'd be cautious in investing any money in a scheme vulnerable to 'intervention' by governments or others.


I would be cautious investing in any "scheme" period...

What exactly are you saying here?
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#2045 - 11/19/07 06:10 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: Meq]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Mequa
Of course, if you can get your hands on real gold and silver, it may be a good investment in the face of the falling Dollar (for Americans that is).


Oh that is what you were getting at in the last post... Real precious metals are a good investment...

 Quote:
But I would strongly recommend an improved security system for keeping large quantities of precious metal, for thieves break in and steal.
Good job you are allowed to arm yourselves over there!


Wow more commonsense... What happened a name change a color change and poof posting to raise the post count or what?

Has your internet been kidnapped?

So would you buy ingots for the spot price or would you put your money into play coins that are half spot value or less?

Would it matter if you could get your face on them?

Do you think a steel reinforced purse is needed to carry a normal days spending money in ingots?

How do you feel about one who first shows off his understanding of advertising and then tries to use it on us?

What is your opinion of the legality of trying to spend play money as real government money?

Anything at all to add?

Peace

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (11/19/07 06:19 PM)
Edit Reason: reason #6
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#2046 - 11/19/07 06:16 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: ta2zz]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
There is an old saying; "Not worth the paper its printed on." Those who purchased the gold or silver coins get at least the value of that metal. Its considered the same as a token. In other words its considered basic bullion. They loose some minor value.


As for the fools who purchased the paper money. Well, there is the value of the paper. Which is zero.

We cant all be rocket scientists.

Chris
_________________________
Read about this great Patriot and Vote!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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#2047 - 11/19/07 06:31 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: MCSA TEK]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: MCSA TEK
There is an old saying; "Not worth the paper its printed on." Those who purchased the gold or silver coins get at least the value of that metal. Its considered the same as a token. In other words its considered basic bullion.


Which we have already pointed out the spot value on one of those coins is a fraction of its illegal face value… Also as stated before in this thread this is separate from any intrinsic value… Which we can see by simply looking for a RPD on Ebay…

 Quote:
They loose some minor value.


Minor value, funny when talking of the dollars collapse you can say such a thing…

 Quote:
As for the fools who purchased the paper money. Well, there is the value of the paper. Which is zero.


Did you forget intrinsic value already? Now those who had electric dollars well they truly have nothing…

 Quote:
We cant all be rocket scientists.


Never thought we were trying to be anything but aware, using reason instead of fantasy to guide us…

Peace

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#2062 - 11/19/07 10:52 PM Re: Nothing won... Scams even here... [Re: ta2zz]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
So would you buy ingots for the spot price or would you put your money into play coins that are half spot value or less?


Play coins which could likely become worth a fraction of their spot value due to surprise government busts? Nah, I'll pass.

 Quote:
Would it matter if you could get your face on them?

Nah, it's a great way to sell them though. More money from the gullible.

 Quote:
Do you think a steel reinforced purse is needed to carry a normal days spending money in ingots?

No, a safe is needed to store them. They can hardly replace cash or credit for everyday transactions.
But since I am from the UK, this isn't relevant to my everyday life as yet. The pound is doing just fine against the dollar.

 Quote:
How do you feel about one who first shows off his understanding of advertising and then tries to use it on us?

Reminds me of those NLP trainers selling courses on 'manipulation'.
The joke's on the punters who pay thousands to learn hyped-up pseudoscientific crap.
Or, indeed, investment schemes...

 Quote:
What is your opinion of the legality of trying to spend play money as real government money?

I have nothing against it morally, but in practical terms the government has the power to kick your ass for pissing it off, having its own vested interest in maintaining its monopoly of currency.

 Quote:
Anything at all to add?


Yes.
Those led to take unreasonable risks here for the principle of liberty are falling prey to conmen who play on their moral sensibilities as a means to exploit them.

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