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#103715 - 11/03/15 10:59 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: The Zebu]
Bodie45 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 365
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
 Quote:
Lucifer is neither the trans‑cultural archetypal Devil but rather a pre-Christian deity of Roman origin and associated with the Morning Star of ancient Phoenician/Canaan cosmology.


This statement is very problematic. But I'll spare the pseudo-academics for once and just point out how many times Ford mentions the Adversary and the Devil in defining his ideology... I mean, the GCOL logo literally is Satan doing a Michael cosplay, not to mention the "Genius of Evil" and Gustave Dore's Satan images plastered on their homepage. Even the Sigil of Lucifer is derived from a system of Christianized magic predicated on that very identification.

I will say that there are "some" self-identified Luciferians among Freemasons and Wiccans who are definitely further away from this association, but Ford's darkfluff casserole--filled with inverted pentagrams, anti-Christian bombast, and woodcuts from the Compendium Maleficarum--is basically indistinguishable from garden-variety Satanism.

The distinction is in branding only, but under close scrutiny it just doesn't hold water.



Just as I thought, Ford being one of the more if not THEE most known of Luciferians and yet he uses the same verbage/symbolism to communicate his beliefs...

 Originally Posted By: Oxus
Not at all, this faux elitism that people seem to attach to Luciferianism must stem from some sort of satanic inferiority complex or something. Satanism is not Luciferianism . . . they waft their odors accordingly


Well I am no Luciferian theologian but as I said already and Zebu has confirmed it is the same smell.

I will admit though that you are right about a "Satanic inferiority complex" if only because most of those that take the name are not living up to it. From a personal standpoint I do not believe in "Satanists" or "Satanism" only the satanic.

It is not a philosophy of life but action taken towards others, it is DEEDS not knowledge.
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#103717 - 11/04/15 01:49 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
It is merely the next big fad.
I've seen some of their goons spreading the word for the last couple of months... long before a decent virtual (let alond physical) place was set up.

They remind me of TsT. Craving for media-attention. It shouldn't be all too long before they come up with a cause to rally support...and split up afterwards because someone went all cuckoo in the head.
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#103719 - 11/04/15 06:04 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Dimitri]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Fadish, Trendy, Common...Nomian.

It's Cognitive Dissonance. Parroting off bogus pseudo-history and what symbols mean and don't mean blah blah blah, all to rationalize the same b.s. members claim to oppose in the first place.

"We are against dogma! Except our own."

"We are just like you! Except different."

"We have Rights! Though we appeal to authority to get them."

Grandstanding to poke the religious in the eye, while ignoring the Tree in one's own.
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#103721 - 11/04/15 06:23 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
I do admit the reasons I very early on defected from this organization are exactly the points that all of you made here, including the GCoL's drive to become the K-Mart of Luciferianism.
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#103724 - 11/04/15 11:46 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Names don't matter, labels don't matter, only actions and results matter.

They can dress this shit however they like but from where I'm standing its no different than any other congregation of religious nitwits.
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#103727 - 11/04/15 05:21 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Dan_Dread]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Names don't matter, labels don't matter, only actions and results matter.

They can dress this shit however they like but from where I'm standing its no different than any other congregation of religious nitwits.
Do you see everything in such Black 'n White? Perhaps you need to change your perch for a change ;\)

The results of the GCoL as well as the Satanic Temple (another fave of yours) speaks louder than ANYTHING I have ever experienced / witnessed from yourself or most / any Satanist.

Creating a change in general reality calls for more than driveling on some abandoned forum about how everyone/thing is useless except what YOU have in mind (this too goes for Sexy Sin)

These days it has never been more clear the distinction between Satanic and Luciferian, being ignorant of this is one thing . . . talking out yer ass is another.


Edited by Oxus (11/04/15 05:23 PM)

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#103729 - 11/04/15 07:01 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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I bet you really believe that too.

This forum is no different than sitting around having a conversation anywhere else. The conversation itself isn't seeking to change the fiber of reality, it's just participating in it.

Change? What change? You see a broken world in need of fixing, sounds like you wouldn't have clue 1 about what it means to move about like Devil.

Is that what your Luciferianism is all about? Throwing rocks at the sun? What about you and the things you want? Would you sit back and wait for another to hand it to you? What has the TST or GCoL given you? Did they help to make your identity pin more palatable?

If you think there's an 'US' in all of this, boy are you out of your league.
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#103730 - 11/04/15 08:01 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Bette Doom]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1571
Loc: Ca
As much as I like to see people riled up, this is another case of Guru's self interest + followers = press, and it doesn't even involve anything fun like dropping acid everyday.

 Quote:
Call me old fashioned, but if the townspeople aren't even tempted to smash the windows, you can't be doing it correctly.


I would hand it to them if their counter to the 'outcry' over their existence wasn't the same old "we are" PR diffusion.

Instead of: "We are law abiding, we don't hurt others, and all we want is a right to exist peacefully!"

Just once, I want to hear the celebrity flame out/Mike Tyson answer: "Suck it up and deal with it. We aren't going anywhere, and we don't give a fuck what your precious concerns are. If you keep fucking with us we will eat your chirldren."

Then something about the Jews.

I can dream, but for now: whitewashing.
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#103731 - 11/04/15 11:49 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: CanisMachina42]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
That would just be suicide, there are literally more Christian churches than there are members in the GCoL church . . . That would be the equivalent of saying "fuck you" to Tyson's face
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#103732 - 11/05/15 12:05 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
This forum is very different than having a discussion anywhere else, lol!
I don't see the world as broken, I don't see the world period, I see my own world and it is not broken.

What have they given me?
Oh that's right, Satanists "need" material things in order to merit their worth
As I've stated repeatedly I am not a member of either organization and my beliefs and practices are not the discussion here.
So, you self-proclaimed Satanists now have a 'league' ?
Isn't that Special! All hail the secular mavericks of mayhem . . .

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#103733 - 11/05/15 12:45 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1571
Loc: Ca
Are you sure?

You don't have to be so over-inflammatory about it. There are clever ways to take inflammatory shots if you pay attention to wording. Hearts and Minds campaigns don't really fit with 'adversary', and appeasing sentiment is what celebrities do after they get nailed for disparaging 'touchy' subjects.

For fuck sake, Andy Kaufman was more of a hailstone then the current state of 'Satanism', even The Transcendental 'Spiritualists' told him to fuck off.
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#103734 - 11/05/15 12:49 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4017
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Listen Oxus, its really simple.

People gather in congregations to slurp up the 'teachings' of others. It doesn't really matter what the 'teachings' are, the dynamic is the same. You aren't changing anything, just more of the same encouragement to weak, beta mentality as the rest.
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#103735 - 11/05/15 05:43 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Dan_Dread]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
Dan, it's never simple . . . It can be simply put, but it's never simple
I'm going to guess that any congregation works the same as any foundation of religion does, to provide comfort and community. Is that really so awful?

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#103736 - 11/05/15 09:30 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
This forum is very different than having a discussion anywhere else, lol!
I don't see the world as broken, I don't see the world period, I see my own world and it is not broken.


The point is, it's just a communication device to have a conversation. If you see it as anything more than that, that's on you dude. Your reality and all. If the world isn't broken, what needs changing?


 Quote:

What have they given me?


You said these two groups have made 'changes' so what are they? Where are they happening? What are these changes providing you? These are simple questions really, if you can't answer them just say so.

 Quote:
Oh that's right, Satanists "need" material things in order to merit their worth


Don't put words in my mouth, quit skirt-tailing the issue. Address what I actually inquired vs. some b.s. you're going on about.


 Quote:
As I've stated repeatedly I am not a member of either organization and my beliefs and practices are not the discussion here.


Your membership is irrelevant to the assertion you have made on this message board. Your beliefs and 'practices' (whatever you think those are) have been spouted by you. You *Believe* these groups have made 'real' changes as you see them, so show me. What have they changed?

 Quote:

So, you self-proclaimed Satanists now have a 'league' ?
Isn't that Special! All hail the secular mavericks of mayhem . . .


Don't be coy. There is no we. Maybe all of this is above your intellectual capacity. Pretty apparent from the shit I'm reading.
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#103737 - 11/05/15 09:36 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4017
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
You are correct, which is actually my point. Those seeking 'comfort' and 'community' have no business flying a lhp flag in the first place. A craving for these things speaks to the other side of the coin.
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