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#103795 - 11/07/15 03:48 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
Harmonious as in a Satanic world where everyone is on the same page . . .
*headdesk* What? I actually enjoy Diversity, thanks.


 Quote:
you do believe in what you preach, right? Then accordingly it would be harmonious to see others live Satanically . . . unless I am mistaken and you don't identify as a Satanist any longer?


Ummmm, have you been reading ANY of my posts here? It's because people among the mass live Satanically that there can be no harmony.

 Quote:
In general reality, no one in the world before 1967 really was on board the Satanic ship per se.
Can't say it surprises me you'd not recognize it beyond this understanding. Could account for why you don't have a very fruitful experience posting here also.

 Quote:
that's not the point I'm trying to make.
Oh I get it, I'm just wondering why you believe this to be the 'true reality'.

 Quote:
General world awareness to western left hand path ideology and practices is what's changed,


Awareness in that plenty of people in the West don't get it? Sure, I'll buy that. Pretty evident by your reductionism to Nihilism.


Since LaVey appears to be your own point of reference, let me ask you this:

What do you think LaVey meant by saying: "If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block!" ??



 Quote:
perhaps not on this nihilistic forum but it has and is changing . . . try not to fuck it up for once ;\)



Fuck what up again?
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#103796 - 11/07/15 06:51 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 550
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
Harmonious as in a Satanic world where everyone is on the same page . . .
*headdesk* What? I actually enjoy Diversity, thanks.
I don't see why you can't progress individualism around the world, are you that unable to see past your self-righteous carnality?


 Quote:
Ummmm, have you been reading ANY of my posts here? It's because people among the mass live Satanically that there can be no harmony.
I don't believe that, perhaps that is your own philosophy, and one I find sad and negative. Satanism need not be a negative experience or one without harmony. I can't understand how one would be master of the carnal realm without being harmonious with objective reality.

 Quote:
Can't say it surprises me you'd not recognize it beyond this understanding. Could account for why you don't have a very fruitful experience posting here also.
If you have evidence of a general world reality that embraced what we define Satanism as prior to 1967, I for one would like to hear it.

 Quote:
Oh I get it, I'm just wondering why you believe this to be the 'true reality'.
'General Reality' . . . there is no 'True' Reality.

 Quote:
Since LaVey appears to be your own point of reference, let me ask you this:

What do you think LaVey meant by saying: "If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block!" ??
LaVey is hardly my only point of reference, smart ass.
I get the whole 'don't feel guilty, don't be ashamed' thing . . . big fucking whoop! I say include guilt, shame in your psychological diet . . . it's a balanced diet, to do otherwise is similar to what the RHP fools do to themselves.

 Quote:
perhaps not on this nihilistic forum but it has and is changing . . . try not to fuck it up for once ;\)



 Quote:
Fuck what up again?
EVERYTHING . . . what else? :P


Edited by Oxus (11/07/15 07:13 PM)

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#103802 - 11/08/15 08:58 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
I don't see why you can't progress individualism around the world, are you that unable to see past your self-righteous carnality?


Individuality is diversity, harmony is the lack thereof. Maybe it's you that can't break free from a mind prison, the way you keep batting off statements right out of the TSB. You lack perspective and understanding.


 Quote:
I don't believe that,
Your beliefs alter your perception of general reality.

 Quote:
perhaps that is your own philosophy,


What's my philosophy again?

 Quote:
and one I find sad and negative. Satanism need not be a negative experience or one without harmony. I can't understand how one would be master of the carnal realm without being harmonious with objective reality.


Facts are hard to take sometimes, especially when they don't coincide with your beliefs and idealism.


 Quote:
If you have evidence of a general world reality that embraced what we define Satanism as prior to 1967, I for one would like to hear it.
The subject has been discussed ad nauseum on this board. If you're too lazy to bother expanding your understanding, why should I exert any effort towards helping you? I leave you to your service.


 Quote:
General Reality' . . . there is no 'True' Reality.


Read your prior statements, it was in reference to an assertion you put forth.


 Quote:
LaVey is hardly my only point of reference, smart ass.

Judging by your statements here, I call bullshit on that.

 Quote:
I get the whole 'don't feel guilty, don't be ashamed' thing . . . big fucking whoop! I say include guilt, shame in your psychological diet . . . it's a balanced diet, to do otherwise is similar to what the RHP fools do to themselves.


Sigh... It was in relation to your ideas about Harmony but if this is the best you can do, I'll set my bar even lower next time.


 Quote:
EVERYTHING . . . what else? :P


So it's your assertion that I've fucked up everything? Where is the evidence to support it? If you want to see General Reality or whatever the fuck you think Reality is, may I suggest an eye appointment? Your prescription may need adjusting.
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#103805 - 11/08/15 10:55 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 550
I'm not going to bother myself with replying to your endless bullshit, play that game with someone else.

The GCoL and TST may not have been the first and more than likely will not be the last, but they have/are making statements that do change general world reality as the statement is spread. Obviously, this doesn't happen when one remains isolate or minuscule in their actions. Personally, I am not interested in broad sweeping strokes simply because I am more interested in Me and the very few who take the effort to work alongside myself.

I really don't see what the issue was/is with what they (GCoL) do/did. They are not my cup of tea and I certainly don't agree with all their tenets, but they don't bother me enough to rage on them.

Community has its merit . . . isolation does as well

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#103809 - 11/08/15 02:07 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1828
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 Quote:
As you can see you're still Yellow. While mine was stripped when Level 2 was deleted by the janitors last clean up. I hear back room discussions went something like "Favortism, Fanboyism, Over my dead body will a new blue be made!" haha


Actually, any colors, other then Red and Green, are an oversight. Usually they belong to members who have not been too active and have fallen under the radar. (Personally, I find the occasional odd color popping up to be amusing, in a confusing kind of way, but I'm weird like that).
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#103812 - 11/08/15 04:26 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
I'm not going to bother myself with replying to your endless bullshit, play that game with someone else.


What game, it's just a conversation. I don't presume to know the weird shit that goes on in your head but by your replies, strange place. Good luck with that.

 Quote:
The GCoL and TST may not have been the first and more than likely will not be the last, but they have/are making statements that do change general world reality as the statement is spread. Obviously, this doesn't happen when one remains isolate or minuscule in their actions. Personally, I am not interested in broad sweeping strokes simply because I am more interested in Me and the very few who take the effort to work alongside myself.


Didn't you call them the K-mart of Luciferianism or something like that? Jeezus, hold a position and stick by it. The only person I see raging is you man. Very Jungian indeed.

 Quote:
Community has its merit . . . isolation does as well



One can choose not to participate in a community and not be isolated.

 Originally Posted By: AS
Actually, any colors, other then Red and Green, are an oversight.


Interesting. I guess every mod has their own interpretation. *shrugs*
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#103813 - 11/08/15 04:29 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2147
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
The GCoL and TST may not have been the first and more than likely will not be the last


Sure sure. There are plenty of small, ephemeral and wannabe Satanic cults. Even Raspotnik has one.

 Quote:
but they have/are making statements that do change general world reality as the statement is spread.


Seriously? How are congregating in a poor-quality church, listening to lectures and discussing things any different from a mental masturbation on the Satanic forum? What did TST achieve through their lame shows? Has the society really changed?

Since you mentioned the CoS, at least their 6/6/6 show was more classy than the Black Mass organized by TST in some shabby restaurant. Besides, the CoS has been around for nearly 50 years. How old is the GCoL? TST isn't more than two years old and it has already suffered a massive exodus of members amid the bitching, whining and the cyber drama.

 Quote:
They are not my cup of tea and I certainly don't agree with all their tenets, but they don't bother me enough to rage on them.


It's a discussion, not raging. The GCoL and TST may cater to their members' emotional needs and I see nothing wrong with that. If people want to belong to these organizations, fine. To each their own. However, I see no influence these groups have on humanity in general.

I'm also not sure what you mean by this:

 Quote:
working for the development of Satanism as a philosophy.


Are you sure that the multiple cults that appear aren't eroding it instead of causing its development? You know... this divide and conquer thing.


Edited by Czereda (11/08/15 04:34 PM)
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#103821 - 11/09/15 07:01 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Zach_Black Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 546
Loc: San Diego, California
True he does. And although the turnout was weak I give him a ' A ' for effort. Sure it was to grab headlines. Why else would you put a Church of Lucifer in the bible belt?

I am just trying to figure out what he has to gain outta all this. Someone paid for that office space.

I guess he should be more productive and attempt to dominate satanic forums or something. WTF was he thinking.. pssh Luciferians .
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#103823 - 11/09/15 09:07 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Zach_Black]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Your reading comprehension remains weak. Read up, I've already stated there is a personal benefit to Ford to sell his wares. I'm addressing the 'we' vs. 'he' aspect.

 Originally Posted By: Z
I guess he should be more productive and attempt to dominate satanic forums or something.


Nice Freudian slip there.

THIS THREAD deserves a re-visit. It's relevant.


Edited by SIN3 (11/09/15 09:25 AM)
Edit Reason: linked archive topic
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#103827 - 11/09/15 11:33 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Central Michigan Life ran a story about the talks being led by JB.


Speaking in split tongues it seems while emphasis is placed on the tenets on their website, praxis is to the contrary.

The Constitution is considered holy and sacred but the TST would not see it challenged. Instead, they seek to use it as a shield of protection against an all mighty authority.

Boundaries of 'Free Speech' are best demonstrated (according to the TST) by showing the public a set of beliefs and provoking threats to prove their position.

 Quote:
According to Blackmore, the temple has received backlash for its beliefs. Blackmore says she receives thousands of threats a day, including death threats, and about one threat a month credible enough to report to the police.

“A couple of weeks ago someone sent me the kind of ammunition they were buying to kill me with,” she said.


This appears to be the most important selling point to get people to jump in the band-wagon. All very content marketing strategy 101.


"Political Activism" is really RHP. An appeal to authority and higher power which is statism and the opposite of what LHP attainment actually is. Results? To create a larger body (a mass) of people and rebel against Big Brother.

So in that regard, groups like the GCoL and TST rely heavily on sharing information and ideas in order to show people a different way of approach. Still, it's more of a "we" vs. "me" activity.

It's apprehension for these "civically minded" folks and if these endeavors leave a bad taste in your mouth, it could be because of the knowledge vs. information you hold.

This reminds me of that old reactionary premise of "Pretenders to the Throne". The CoS was focused on the idea that none of these people and/or groups have changed the course of Satanism. Today, it's fairly common to the Right masquerading as the Left. Not that these groups have seized the throne per se but that the course may be changing. Does us all a favor really, do the do, it looks like you're doing what everyone else is doing.

In spite of critical analysis (aka peer review) of the success rate of praxis, people are indeed getting the "information". It accounts for the sentiment that these groups are doing more (results) than any individual does for himself.
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#103828 - 11/09/15 01:21 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3409
The problem with such "establishments" is the rusted down belief someone HAS to have written down the do and don'ts of freedom.
There HAS to be organizations working on having it written down and having it to be defended and "felt".

It's problematic and downright idiotic if you ask me.
I tend to believe that what is written down greatly limits the possibilities to choose from.

Hence why I generally laugh with debates concerning constitutions and their unshakeable stance about "freedom being a right" (and all possible measures to enforce). As if it is something that cannot be taken. Silly really.


Edited by Dimitri (11/09/15 01:22 PM)
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#103830 - 11/09/15 04:28 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 550
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I've already stated there is a personal benefit to Ford to sell his wares.
Both Ford and the GCoL as a collective stand to gain from all the merchandise they offer. They insist nothing goes to profit, it all goes into the GCoL for buildings and whatever, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

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#103832 - 11/09/15 05:40 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2147
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
This reminds me of that old reactionary premise of "Pretenders to the Throne". The CoS was focused on the idea that none of these people and/or groups have changed the course of Satanism. Today, it's fairly common to the Right masquerading as the Left. Not that these groups have seized the throne per se but that the course may be changing. Does us all a favor really, do the do, it looks like you're doing what everyone else is doing.


Yesterday I visited the Church of Satan news website and stumbled upon the link to this article:

When Satanism Met The Internet

It mostly echoes what you wrote; that Satanism is not about political activism, that the Satanic Temple misrepresents Satanism and uses the label for shallow reasons and political gain, that they plagiarize the CoS philosophy and "spout our philosophies when they see fit, but then shoehorn in their own collectivist, social justice flavored ideas."

Then this article linked to another essay this time by Gilmore put on the CoS website:

Dilute Diabolism: On the Rise of “neo-satanism”

It's not about TST specifically but about all those who "unlawfully" put on a mantle of a Satanist, who misrepresent, reinterpret, plagiarize and dilute LaVey's philosophy. Gilmore makes some valid points about people needing to be spoon-fed, seeking social acceptance, community, being lazy, plagiarizing and parroting Anton LaVey without having any original ideas of their own. However, LaVey himself also plagiarized huge portions of "Might is Right." Besides, does the CoS own Anton LaVey's ideas?

The Church of Satan feels like some sort of a guardian of the black flame of Satanism trying to chase away those who want to steal it, soil it with their dirty and unworthy hands or, worse, extinguish it by disrupting its coherence:

What happened to some extent in Wicca is now occurring in Satanism—it is being watered-down for consumption by dilettantes who can’t be troubled with a perspective that has actual depth. Over the years we have won respect from some academics and scholars for our coherent ideas, going far beyond the initial label of being a “cult” to now more frequently being viewed as a viable philosophy worthy of analysis amongst long-existing world religions.

And of course, the devil of the internet is blamed for all the idiocy and posturing within the Satanic subculture.

Gilmore has a point, even several points but here is a thing. LaVey put a snowball in motion and nobody can really control it. Once the creator puts his ideas out in the open, neither he nor anyone can control how and by whom these ideas will be used. Some will use them in a more intelligent and creative manner, others will cherry-pick some cool slogans, add some stupid shit of their own and in the end produce some gibberish. It's up to every individual person to evaluate those influences and separate the wheat from the chaff.

The only thing the CoS can do is to give interviews, bitch, moan and write long ass derogatory essays against dissenters and heretics, just like the O9A does from time to time. They even use the same jargon: pretenders, dilettantes, posers, satanists by small "s" etc. All in the name of preserving the cohesion of "memeplex."

However, what is happening to Satanism is a characteristic of all religions, movements. Christianity is more than 2000 years old and it's by no means a monolith. And we burned the heretics at the stake and before that we entertained them with the strappado. How can cyber shit-talk accomplish something these good ol' methods didn't?


Edited by Czereda (11/09/15 06:01 PM)
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#103837 - 11/10/15 09:14 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
That's why I referred to it as reactionary. If one makes an observation then reacts to it by saying "Well those guys are just pretenders", it need not be uttered aloud.

If we discuss the 'course' of Satanism openly, critique it, criticize it, etc. again... Who are these conversations for? We move on to the next topic and our discussions sit in an archive for the next reader to think on.

 Quote:
It's up to every individual person to evaluate those influences and separate the wheat from the chaff.


Indeed. Ideas are often thought to be original but they aren't. It's repetition, redundancy and it's contagious like a virus. Some feel as though they own a piece of real estate and seek to protect it, while others just contribute to the noise but it's all just noise. You could easily just tune it out and plenty do. It's just some identity to glamour with, often to hide the real shit inside.

I've always held that Satan is a vehicle that nobody owns, at best it's on lease.
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#103842 - 11/10/15 04:20 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2147
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Ideas are often thought to be original but they aren't. It's repetition, redundancy and it's contagious like a virus.


True, still it's something new to those exposed to the ideas for the first time. Fnord once compared all the mentoring in Satanism to his daughter teaching her dolls the stuff she learned at school. Perhaps, this is what we are all doing here; revising in some playful manner the stuff that we learned. And this is what Ford is doing and the folks attending the LHP conference. Let's add to this some degree of narcissism, the need to show off and also the need to interact with other people. We are social animals after all. One participates in groups, organizations and projects for purely selfish reasons. The problem begins when some start deluding themselves that they are doing the work not for themselves but for some community or that they are changing the world.
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