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#103914 - 11/14/15 11:22 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1600
Loc: Ca
My turn...

 Quote:
This archetype is based on the Hebrew idea of 'ha satan' the Adversary. You can't dress it up or strip it down otherwise it is no longer Satan-ism . . . it's something else.


..or it relates to the personality traits that adversary possesses.

But for fun let's strip it down to "adversary" as an action.

Compare:

ad·ver·sary
\ˈad-və(r)-ˌser-ē, -ˌse-rē\ adjective
1: of, relating to, or involving an enemy or adversary

Synonyms: adversarial, hostile, antagonistic, antipathetic, inhospitable, inimical, jaundiced, mortal, negative, unfriendly, unsympathetic

Antonyms: friendly, hospitable, nonantagonistic, nonhostile, sympathetic

And contrast it to:

 Quote:
Harmonious as in a Satanic world where everyone is on the same page
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#103915 - 11/14/15 01:45 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: CanisMachina42]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
And THIS is what your Satanism is all about?
The original Hebrew meaning was intended for anyone/thing that opposed Judaism, the Essenes were key in manifesting this Word/Meme/Archetype in their intent to create an "Us or Them' mentality.
This is just stupid and base for any intelligent human being.

"Wisdom through Adversity" IMO is a much better ideal to attach to your Satan-ism.

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#103917 - 11/14/15 10:24 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
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If you're looking for all Satanists to be on the same page, just join the C/S, dismiss any alternative perspective offhandedly, and call it a day. Or don't.

That it comes as any surprise to you, or anyone at all, that there are stark discrepancies between any given persons' process of individuation - especially as pertains to the shadow self - is, at best, mildly amusing and/or silly.
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#103920 - 11/15/15 09:11 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: OX
The original Hebrew meaning was intended for anyone/thing that opposed Judaism


Your understanding of its contextual basis is off. Even if you put the entire Book of Job to the side, consider 1 Samuel 29:4.

It's not just to oppose Judaism but any path, 'responsibility' and/or state of being. In the context of sin, Satan is the obstacle in the way, the tempter and opposing force. Not to bring people into harmony but rather disrupt it.

In all of the ancient semitic writings, sin is behavior abhorrent to being on the same page. There's a reason the bull is used to signify the god Sin and its mythos cycle. There's a reason that 'sin' is the word used to describe such behaviors. Words are symbols to carry messages. Much like the crescent moon symbolizes the horns of the bull. The bull holds significance in symbol and in meaning. The sacrificial bull and its blood, is to conquer it in some cases and to pull power from it in others. (i.e. the Papacy issues Bulls)

For example, in Sumer when the people toiled in the gardens it was so the gods wouldn't have to, to show their appreciation for all that they provided. So, if you slacked off, were lazy or a drunkard the punishment was harsh. If you weren't exiled and left to isolation, you could be killed for it. The weakest link was discarded, otherwise the people starve. The sinner, is that which sides with Satan.

Today, you may use different words to describe the same concepts. Even in sports. If you are on a team, commit a penalty, you are benched. Team = Harmony, Penalty = Sin, Bench = Satan.

There's plenty of cases where players purposely disrupt the game for the sake of a goal in the future (whether for the individual player or team).


Take boxing, when a boxer throws the fight, maybe it's to get a bigger pay-off in the betting pool. Throwing the fight is considered a great 'sin' to the sport of boxing but none of that matters, when you side with Satan. Plenty of boxers will suspend their pride to win, for the pride of winning bigger by taking the left course.


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#103925 - 11/15/15 11:52 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4018
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Ok guys, he's right. We should all just quit with this pursuit of adversity and concentrate on harmony and unity. It turns out we have been wrong about this LHP thing all along, as have apparently those who coined the term some thousands of years ago, and everyone in between.

Thank you, Oxus, former luciferian, for setting us straight. Now, if all would kindly join hands for the singing of kumbayah we can get started on some actual Satanism around here!

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#103928 - 11/15/15 03:03 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Dan_Dread]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
You and SIN have taken my statement way out of context in order to babble your own views. What I said was along the lines of Satanism embracing the carnal aspect of existence and that by being harmonious with the objective universe (Flow/Tao) the Satanist controls hir destiny/existence.

Moronic associations with holding hands and singing is at the very least entertaining.

I get that Satanism is a pattern for behavior and thinking, an urge to resist programming, keeping that which is beneficial to one's self and discarding the rest. By calling yourself a “Satanist”, you make a disconnection with the
accepted norm both in the minds of those around you and in your own mind.

There is however power and freedom in the harmony of one's self and the objective universe, this elevates the person above the sheeple. To live in the natural order, serving only those needs
which must be served in order to live in nature’s harmony . . . this is the foundation of the archetype of all the Horned Gods.

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#103929 - 11/15/15 03:09 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Nope.

 Originally Posted By: OX
I'm as big a fan of Chaos as the next guy but the matter at hand is that the Abrahamic faiths have a history of hate crimes and this is just warming up (they did recently have their window smashed).


^Example of adversity.

If these people were all sanctimonious and in harmony, there would be no complaint. The window would be fixed, business as usual.

Get it?

Nevermind the need to keep batting off the RETCON of Satan and Lucifer being misunderstood good guys.
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#103930 - 11/15/15 03:30 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Nope.

 Originally Posted By: OX
I'm as big a fan of Chaos as the next guy but the matter at hand is that the Abrahamic faiths have a history of hate crimes and this is just warming up (they did recently have their window smashed).


^Example of adversity.

If these people were all sanctimonious and in harmony, there would be no complaint. The window would be fixed, business as usual.

Get it?

Nevermind the need to keep batting off the RETCON of Satan and Lucifer being misunderstood good guys.
Sorry, I don't get it . . . who was complaining exactly? Are you now putting words in my mouth in order to prove your dull point?

If there is nothing beneficial from adversarial activity . . . what is the reasoning for such actions? Your Satanism seems to be nothing more than the philosophy of hormone raging teen angst.

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#103931 - 11/15/15 04:45 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2127
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
In the context of sin, Satan is the obstacle in the way, the tempter and opposing force. Not to bring people into harmony but rather disrupt it.


Chaos and order/harmony are two sides of the same coin. Chaos is only temporary and it subsequently leads to order. Consider all the wars and revolutions, the disruption they cause ultimately leads to the order. Whether it's always a new order is debatable, more often it's the old shit in a new package.

In the Book of Job Satan is really God's tool. He tests Job's faith and resilience but after the time of disorder, the harmony is restored. One thing is not the same though. Job through his suffering learns humility and with humility there comes wisdom, he begins to understand that in spite of all his virtues he's by no means a special snowflake but a small and rather insignificant part of the Universe.

Chaos is not an end in itself, it's a prelude to the new order. It's not disharmony but mere rearrangement of things that build this harmony, just like you redecorate your house, throwing perhaps some old and useless things away, buying some new ones, putting other things in some other places. But the house/the Universe stays in place constantly regenerating itself and evolving through this apparent disharmony.
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#103934 - 11/15/15 11:22 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4018
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
Harmonious as in a Satanic world where everyone is on the same page


Kumbayah, my lord...

 Quote:
To live in the natural order, serving only those needs
which must be served in order to live in nature’s harmony
. . . this is the foundation of the archetype of all the Horned Gods.

Kumbayah, my lord, kumbayah..

Everybody now.
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#103936 - 11/16/15 09:27 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda

Chaos and order/harmony are two sides of the same coin. Chaos is only temporary and it subsequently leads to order. Consider all the wars and revolutions, the disruption they cause ultimately leads to the order. Whether it's always a new order is debatable, more often it's the old shit in a new package.


Its continual is the point. Same coin, in terms of what? When the subject object is a person, what you're dealing with there is the idea of permanence. The mind can hold to ideas for a time but change comes when faced with adversity. This so-called harmony would be akin to stagnation. It really depends on the thing being worked on. Which brings me to this...

 Quote:

In the Book of Job Satan is really God's tool. He tests Job's faith and resilience but after the time of disorder, the harmony is restored. One thing is not the same though. Job through his suffering learns humility and with humility there comes wisdom, he begins to understand that in spite of all his virtues he's by no means a special snowflake but a small and rather insignificant part of the Universe.


What's God again Ms. Czereda? Satan as a tool/method isn't off mark, the thing needs to be employed. Action. Deeds. Movement. Disruption. Chaos. When a thing is re-ordered, perhaps there's a much needed change or maybe it just strengthens its integrity.

 Quote:
Chaos is not an end in itself, it's a prelude to the new order. It's not disharmony but mere rearrangement of things that build this harmony, just like you redecorate your house, throwing perhaps some old and useless things away, buying some new ones, putting other things in some other places. But the house/the Universe stays in place constantly regenerating itself and evolving through this apparent disharmony.



Was chaos as an end asserted here somewhere? I can't seem to find it. I believe it was pointed to as a means to an end. A course taken in a particular way, vs. waiting for the teakettle in the sky to scream and be poured out. In the case of Job, these trials were to push Job's limits and beyond for a particular context. This 'faith' doesn't have to be blind faith or sitting obedient to the teapot. This isn't complicated and if some users appear to be bewildered, I can only conclude it's a comprehension issue.

Exhibit A:

 Quote:
Sorry, I don't get it . . . who was complaining exactly? Are you now putting words in my mouth in order to prove your dull point?

If there is nothing beneficial from adversarial activity . . . what is the reasoning for such actions? Your Satanism seems to be nothing more than the philosophy of hormone raging teen angst.


1. He doesn't get it. No matter how far it's dumbed down.
2. Comprehension. He interpreted my statement as if I were saying HE was complaining, when I was speaking to the circumstances of the GCoL and the reason it received press.
3. He refers to it as 'My Satanism' then goes on to reduce it to angst.

WALL.
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#103943 - 11/16/15 04:30 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
 Quote:

1. He doesn't get it. No matter how far it's dumbed down.
2. Comprehension. He interpreted my statement as if I were saying HE was complaining, when I was speaking to the circumstances of the GCoL and the reason it received press.
3. He refers to it as 'My Satanism' then goes on to reduce it to angst.


1) Guess I wasn't cut out for 'It' . . . will give credit where credit's due, you (SIN) have truly managed to come across as Dumb.
2) The GCoL wasn't complaining either . . . they received press thanks to the zealot sheeple who were 'Adversarial' to their presence and more . . . otherwise we wouldn't be having this delightful discourse since you barely knew anything / or do about the GCoL.
3) Because 'Your' Satanism seems to me to be nothing more than juvenile angst for Angst's Sake! Reminds me of a rabid dog biting anything in sight without reason or benefit.

Please do 'dumb down' your 'Satanism' so that this oh so ever fragile ex-Luciferian may finally 'comprehend' what he has been missing for 55 years.

Meanwhile, I'm recording an Evil Djinn belly dance track and I expect a little less clothing this time . . . please!

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#103945 - 11/16/15 05:33 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Ox, maybe if you write it 5x it becomes true. Keep rubbing that lamp. Nice strawman tho, does it do parlor tricks?

Oh wait...

 Quote:
I'm recording an Evil Djinn belly dance track and I expect a little less clothing this time . . . please!


That will teach me eh? Still doesn't help your argument here.

Go be that special little harmony seeker that you are. No need to voice your malcontent. Be at peace Lucy.
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#103946 - 11/16/15 05:42 PM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: SIN3]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 549
Finding the Flow of the OU for one's benefit is not being a fluffy special snow-flake as both you and Dreadful Dan are trying to pin on me . . . give it a rest, find a hobby.

If you cannot see the benefits of this, then it's your loss not mine.

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#103949 - 11/17/15 02:13 AM Re: The Greater Church of Lucifer [Re: Oxus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3394
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
Please do 'dumb down' your 'Satanism' so that this oh so ever fragile ex-Luciferian may finally 'comprehend' what he has been missing for 55 years.

It just might happen. A majority can be wrong as does long upheld believes. Sometimes you just got to let it go.

Just for the record... that particular song nicely envelops the greater majority of Luciferian thought. From the serious "not caring", "to rise above others",..-attitude and straight back to the point it is being sung by a (still) socially awkward teenage princess.

Besides, this "OU" that is being beaten around is overrated.
Especially when considering there's always meaning attached to it in an involuntary way. The thing is generally best ascribed as followed: click .

In OU-terms this: "Meanwhile, I'm recording an Evil Djinn belly dance track and I expect a little less clothing this time . . . please! "
can be described as "flopping about".

Enlightenment is around the corner.
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