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#10622 - 08/12/08 04:27 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: blackdragon31560]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
"Women attach all sorts things to marriage" that could be said about anyone in a marriage.

Not true, Women attach all sort of things towards all sort of other things with or without marriage. It is just a part of their quick thinking nature.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#10703 - 08/16/08 09:02 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Nemesis]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I'm curious as to why you present this claim of "women attach all sorts of things to marriage" so one-sidedly. As if men don't have different expectations after the honeymoon as well.


Well, you may have a point here. In general, married people fight mostly over three things 1) sex 2) money 3) how to raise the children. What a lot of couple find is the sex and money issues do in fact change after marriage. A lot of men get suckered into coupling because of the easy access to sex. After marriage, many women no longer feel obligated to put out. In fact, many see it as just another bothersome chore. As for money, most men do feel obligated to adopt the traditional provider role. This is usually fun for a minute until the wife starts playing house again. At that point every spare dollar goes toward 'her' house.

 Quote:
The husband has done all of his "wooing"--that means he doesn't have to take her out to dinner for no particular reason....


Firstly, this sort of becomes a 'chicken-egg' argument. In general, the guy is dog assed tired trying to provide for a family and keep up with the Jone's. He just wants to come home and chill. Spontaneity sort of goes out the window and everyone feels under appreciated and resentful. Being married is work, and most people don't have the energy for it.

 Quote:
Note that I am applying this in the same general sense to male-kind as you put it towards us ladies.


Of course. And that is the purpose of the thread. Feedback is important.

 Quote:
If a couple lives together long enough, getting married isn't going to make much difference in their lives anyway.


Oh, I would beg to differ. Ask any married person. My point is that marriage is a ceremony. And like any ceremony it has a psychological impact on the participants.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10707 - 08/16/08 03:59 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
harrison Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 55
Loc: winnipeg Mb, canada
You are so on the right track bro, i also think that if you are going to make the commitment you should stick to it even though there will be bad times ahead. just my opinion.
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be true to yourself

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#10718 - 08/16/08 07:20 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: harrison]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I think one of the biggest lessons to be learnt for either sex is that the woman's primary sex organ is the brain.

Once a man has worked out what his womans brain turn ons are, he will have mastered the art of 'putting her in the mood'.

Because when push comes to shove, EVERY FEMALE will be pushed sexually primarily by the brain, which is why when a guy comes home broke and tired, he will put her off sex.

If however, he bothers to learn a couple of simple things about his wife/partner, that 'turns her on' (and not what turns HIM ON), then they will be well on their way to sorting out the 'sex' side of a relationship.

It may not be fair, but it's how it is. Girls need to be turned on first, at which point, they will happily take over and do all the work, the guys result is pretty much always gaurenteed.

I would have thought this was obvious to a Satanist. If as a bloke, you are too lazy to put the ladies pleasure and desire first, you're not very good at reading people then I think.

This would go for the Satanic female as well. We will just have different buttons as to what stimulates the brain.

One thing I have learnt going through all I have with my illness, is that we are driven by hormones pretty much completely, so if you know what triggers those hormones, you've got it won!

It's like the fact that women are attracted to men of a different smell, when they are on the pill.

So ladies, if you meet a guy on the pill, then decide to have a baby with him and go off the pill, chances are you won't be as attracted to him anymore, withough the pill messing up your natural pregesteron and estrogen levels.

This is one of the reasons (among quite a few), that I am not a fan of the pill. Think about it...


I've always found the rythm method to be the best, but of course the trouble with it is that when you do fall in love, your body tries to highjack your brain and trick yourself into getting pregnant. If you are strong enough to fight off that, then when you finally do decided to have children, it won't be scary because you will know it's what you really want.

I personally think the ideal child bearing age for women is in their 20's. We just bounce back better afterwards.

I've recenlty (being in the age group I suppose), had a couple of female friends that have had to terminate downs babies. It's a very traumatic event for someone to go through. And whilst they had both steeled thenselves for miscarriage, the high odds of having a downs child after you've turned 35 is definately something, not promoted when this women waiting til their late 30 or 40's to have kids.

I understand why Fist thinks the half age plus 7 years. In alot of ways, it's better for a girl to hook up with a slightly older guy to have kids with. Trouble is, not all of us women like older men, so end up chasing guys that aren't really ready, when we are. Those damn pesky pheromones.......LOL

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#22305 - 03/20/09 05:04 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
I have to agree with Fist. I was 24 when I got married, and have been married for almost 24 years now. Allot of that is luck and an extremely tolerant Wife... I was way to young and immature to get married. I don't regret it, but would advise against it. Have fun, sow your wild oats and buy your toys, because after you get involved in a serious committed relationship or marriage your life drastically changes. And then when children and other added responsibilities come, this is compounded.


Roger.
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We can't stop here, this is bat country!

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#22313 - 03/20/09 01:29 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: ZephyrGirl]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Thank you for adding a little sanity to this thread.

Regarding what you have said, and what Fist has said: I'd like to merge the two ideas and present a different opinion altogether. I think it's a great idea for men to sow their wild oats because women operate so much differently and much like playing in a symphony, having sex with a woman (the right way)takes a bit of practice on a man's part. Think back, ladies, to the younger ones. They bored me then and the thought of them now makes me want to LOL. When a young man dates around, he gets a more realistic female experience. We're a lot more complex and multi-faceted than (most) men are and we're not as easy to please or as slow to learn how to please back as men are.

I think it's also a good idea for (the older man) to hook up with the younger woman. He's more likely had time to learn the fine art of keeping a woman physically happy (I suppose I should qualify this statement by saying, "if he cared to learn") PLUS he has already established his own sexuality and as I've said before, women are generally faster learners in that arena.

I was with one guy who introduced me to all sorts of things that I would have NEVER done, much less enjoyed, had it been anyone else to try it. What made him different was the fact that he took the time to figure out HOW to get me to enjoy it. And I'll admit, some of the stuff he wanted had bad psychological and emotional baggage with me...but he was patient and apparently willing to take "baby steps"....and also he knew how to balance the things that turned him on with the things that turned me on. We were together for YEARS and up until the day we went our separate ways, he still made me weak-knee'd and lusty. With me anyway, a man will fail miserably if he thinks a little groping is going to work on me. And I'm the kind of girl who has no problem letting him know he failed.

I don't care for this generalization - though - about Fist's thoughts regarding how marriage changes things. (most) Human beings spend their entire life evolving mentally. Even if you are peas in a pod at 30 and 22...it's still quite possible to be apples and oranges at 40 and 32. And if he really is beat when he gets off work, that doesn't mean that there should be a situation in which the wife/mom is the only one interacting with the kids while husband/dad louses around in front of the television all day. That seems to be a cop-out to me and nothing more than an excuse to be lazy about the relationship. You don't have to be constantly going and always running to impress a girl, but you DO have to continue to make an effort to be mentally and emotionally attentive. You can't do that when you go straight from the door to the TV and park your ass until bedtime. If he continues to relate to her mentally and emotionally, she will continue to relate to him sexually and however else they began. Some wise-guy somewhere once said that women give sex to get love and men give love to get sex. An intelligent man will keep that in mind. That intelligent man - who figures out how to "give love" to a woman on her (basic feminine) terms - will never lack for sex no matter how old or complex the relationship is and will find that she's still right there with him a million years later.

And yes, one can say "women should this" and "women should that"...but this thread isn't about what women should be doing.



Edited by ceruleansteel (03/20/09 01:32 PM)

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#28887 - 08/24/09 08:52 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: blackdragon31560]
Athiarchist Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Northwest Oregon
[quote=Fist]
 Quote:
Women attach all sorts things to marriage - things you never thought of and can't really understand. Your relationship will change and you may find that you want to go back to the way things were. I have found this to be universally true.


At 16.. fell madly in love.. we fought alot after the first year. We lived together. At 16 I had started my career. I still hold the same job--8years later. I got married at 19 (near 20)After living with him for 3 years. When we got married nothing changed. Except one thing. We stopped fighting. Completely. We went from fighting at least once a week, to in 3 years of marriage we fought 3 times.

Marriage was the happiest time of my entire life.

In those 7 years with him I learned everything I will ever need to know about myself. I realized after that amount of time together that he wasnt who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, and so after months of talking, and trying to come up with fixes, I left him. Granted, you can blame probably the age and say we were to young (he was 2 years older)...but if I wouldve never done that, and spent that long with someone, today I'd be sitting here, at 24, not knowing what I wanted. I couldnt have possibly learned those things from dating randomly and not having any commitments. I dont feel Ive learned a single new thing in the last year plus of being single, and dating. As a matter of fact, being single and playing the game is making me bitter at life and depleting said goals Im suppose to be growing as a single person in this age group.

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#28905 - 08/25/09 06:10 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Athiarchist]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
That may be well and true, but this thread is not advice for young women.

I believe it is this particular thread where Fist urges boys to grow into men, establish themselves, and then seek relatively younger females for mates. I agree with this advice (wherever it was posted originally and whomever posted it).

Especially in this day and age. It seems that it takes longer and longer for boys to turn into men. And the whole world enables them. Generation X'ers would still be sucking mom's tit at 40 if we let them.

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#28909 - 08/25/09 08:20 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: ceruleansteel]
Athiarchist Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Northwest Oregon
Yea, sorry ceruleansteel.. I did get a bit off topic, considering Im a girl it doesnt matter what worked for me. I was just trying to state that Marriage doesnt always change things in a bad way. For us, yes, it changed things. In the best way possible. I just dont agree with the statement I quoted in my message. We never wished for things to go back to how they were.
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#28911 - 08/25/09 09:47 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Athiarchist]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Athiarchist
We never wished for things to go back to how they were.

Since we are again talking from your perspective and not his. Perhaps he did wish to return to an unmarried life or a life where he is able to date again. Maybe this is why he is your ex-husband?

Just saying.

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#28914 - 08/25/09 11:34 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: ta2zz]
Athiarchist Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Northwest Oregon
I get what your saying, but no. I left him, I councelled him for months, dealt with him crying and sobbing; had never once seen him cry in 7 years together. Hardest thing Ive ever had to do.

I did not want to be single either. I did not want to start my life over just as he didnt. But I just simply thought it was unfair to let myself live a life where I didnt feel 100% in love. I love him and all, I still talk to him all the time, he will always remain my best friend, but just not in love, would never have sex with him again, etc.

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#28915 - 08/25/09 11:48 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Perhaps the most eloquent reflection on this topic I've ever come across was in Jerry Kamstra's famous Beat Generation novel The Frisco Kid (1975). The Frisco Kid is visiting his friend Little Joe in San Francisco's North Beach ...

 Originally Posted By: "The Frisco Kid"
"Kid, let me tell you, this ain't no ordinary cunt. This chick's been trained. You know what she told me? She's the daughter of an army officer, a colonel or something, I can't remember. All I remember is her cunt. It's juicy, it's sweet, like ripe persimmons. Her old man was stationed in Japan. She lived with him - the whole family lived in Japan - she was there between the ages of fourteen and seventeen, can you imagine that? The most important years! A young American pussy over there in Japan where all those five-thousand-year-old sex traditions go down. I mean they train girls how to fuck in Japan! Nothing's left to chance. It's the same way they bend those little peewee trees into any shape they want. Those Oriental cats are heavy, man; they're years ahead of us, centuries, lifetimes! Shit! Have you ever seen pictures of some of those statues they have in India and places like that? They were doing stuff three thousand years ago that we ain't even got around to thinking of doing yet!"

"What are they doing?"

"Aww, c'mon, Kid. Those Oriental cats have sex practices. It's an art with them. American chicks don't know how to fuck, except this one I just met. You ever had an American chick grab your cock? Hell no, you haven't, except maybe some drunk bitch in a bar. In Japan it's different. Over there they come on, man, I know it! I've seen it. Here it's all straight, like your old lady lays down like a log on the bed and you have to build the whole fucking fire. You have to construct the whole fucking palace and then fuck her in it. Why do we have to do that, Kid? Why don't the chicks help build the fire? They act like we’re nothing but human dildos, that's why! They haven't been educated in how to make love. This fucking country doesn't teach chicks how to fuck, it's all left to chance. We learn how to fuck in the back seats of Chryslers, you know that! There ain't no school or nothin'. Fuck. The first time I dipped my dick in a chick I had to ask the chick was it in. I couldn't tell. Of course, I have to admit that first chick's cunt was like a small manhole. In Japan the chicks know what they're doing, though. They're taken when they're small tikes and given lessons. Can you beat that? That's what this chick - Melanie, that's her name - told me. I met her right over there in the corner. She heard about the wedding party at Mike's Place and came on up. She was drinking wine and grooving when I met her. You were too fucked up to remember. Melanie's been trained, man. She said she used to sneak off and take lessons; she knew a Japanese girl, they were girl friends. It was a strange relationship anyway, with her family, I mean. Her old man was out at the base all the time. You know how those army families are; I never met one yet that isn't completely fucked up. Melanie had this Japanese girl friend who was being trained. Her mother was seeing to it that she learned how to make love properly so she could please her future husband. That's how the Japanese people are, they know the essential things. Can you imagine, they teach American chicks multiplication when they should be teaching them copulation. That's what I call civilization, man, teaching young chicks how to please their future husbands. Can you imagine that happening here? Shit! The only thing you learn here is what your sister has between her legs, and to learn that you have to go out behind the garage. This chick Melanie went to classes with her Japanese girl friend, she took lessons. She told her mother she was taking Kabuki lessons or something. You know, Japanese culture. You've got to meet her, man. No, on second thought I want to keep her all to myself. She's an angel, terrific! I can't get over her. Whenever I think about her, I get this tremendous hard-on. I can't stop thinking about her. She almost fucked the end of my dick off. She uses little silk ropes with knots in 'em. Oh, man, I gotta tell you, I'll never be the same. What'll I do? Maybe I should marry her. If I don't, I may be fucked up for the rest of my life, victim of a magic fuck. I'll spend the rest of my life remembering that fuck. Knotted ropes up the asshole. Tell me, Kid, have you ever heard of that? When you come, she pulls it out. Oh, God, it's like your whole insides are coming out. I thought I was going to die. It's like making love while stoned but without the grass. It's better! You can see, taste, feel, smell everything! She has scents in her pussy, aromas, nothing is left to chance. Incense in her pussy. It smells like roses, sandalwood. I've been walking along all morning with my hand on my dick thinking about her. I've got a perpetual hard-on! It won't go away. Kid, you've got to help me reach a decision. If you don't, I may be fucked up for the rest of my life. If I don't marry her, I may spend the rest of my life looking for her. She's like dope, like smack! Once you're on, you don't want off. It's too good, too sweet. It's painful but it's a delicious pain. When I came, I thought I was going to die. I did die! That's what love is: death one fuck at a time."
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#28916 - 08/26/09 12:28 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 74
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Is this on the Temple of Set reading list? It reminds me of something Don Webb wrote...Or maybe it was Stephen Flowers. It should be included in future editions of the Crystal Tablet for sure.
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#28917 - 08/26/09 01:23 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Azathoth68]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Azathoth68
Is this on the Temple of Set reading list?

No, there's no Beat literature on the RL; and why-not is an interesting question. Possibly because the Beats tended to emphasize, or at least cherish the sensual; while the Temple of Set inclines towards the deliberate and the cerebral? But I can already think of exceptions in both camps.

Here's Jerry the K in a 2006 interview: still cute, still crazy.

If you're interested in the Beats, here's a very nice introduction. The old Beat HQ, City Lights Bookstore, is still bouncing merrily along in SF, and is definitely a must for visitors wanting to catch some of that historic flavor.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#28919 - 08/26/09 02:11 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 74
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Kerouac and Ginsberg would've been great honorary Setians. Both had a great affinity for Xem...The Aeon of On the Road.

Edited by Azathoth68 (08/26/09 02:12 AM)

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