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#10412 - 07/31/08 02:25 PM Advice for young men...
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
As most of you know, I am in the military. For the most part, it is a young man's game. At (only) 38 I am sort of an old guy. My wife is a tattoo artist and, in general, I find usually find myself around a younger crowd. With great regularity I have to dispense advice to younger guys. I will post some of my best stuff here.

If you are a younger guy, please feel free to ask a question. If you are an older guy, please chime in with that sage advice.

To wit:

One of the biggest problems facing a young man is women. For the most part (and for good reason) women make up most of a young man's free thoughts. If he is not thinking about anything else, chances are, he is thinking about women.

For the most part, you have no business even having a girl friend until you are in your mid to late twenties. Hang out, hook up, have a good time. But in no way do you need a GF calling you on the phone with her problems. If any of your fuck buddies is the least bit problematic, jettison them. You don't need the grief. Always be honest with them and do not lead them on. Let them know you have goals and a plan, and your career comes first. Don't spend much money on them. Again, this will only give them the wrong idea. Don't move in with them. Don't sleep over. Cohabitation leads to a GF that you do not need. Suck it up, be your own man.

Your early twenties should be spent pursuing your career. Go to school, get professional training, start on the ground floor, build your business. Whatever field of endeavor you are going into, your top priority is to advance your career. Oh, your natural coupling instinct will be strong - don't do it! Work on you. At this point, you may also want to into college coeds and MILFs/cougars. Girls your own age usually want to date and they may be looking for husbands. Don't do it.

Around your mid to late twenties, depending on where you are in your career, you 'may' want to think about dating. This whole dating thing is simply a test run of possible marriage candidates. Never let on that this is what you are doing. Many women attach all sort of myth and fairy tail to marriage and they will pull the old 'bait and switch' just to get married. Look for girls that are into the same things you are. As a general rule, avoid going to bars and clubs to look for a GF. Try meeting people at other places and events you like such as museums, shows, web forums or the gym. Outfits like eHarmony and the like are not to be sneered at. We use brokers for many of our other transactions in life. There is no reason not to use a broker to find a life partner. That is just plain good business sense.

Look for girls that like to do things you like to do. Take them around to some of your favorite things and see if they like it. Make sure you are as compatible as possible. Test their reliability. Make sure they are into the same kinky shit you are into. If they are given to drama, let them go. If you are not compatible let them go. You will also want a girl who is 'sane,' loves sex and can balance a check book. Remember, this is an audition. If they fail the audition things will not get better with age. There are plenty of fish in the sea, keep fishing.

And it is for this reason that you do not live together. Cohabitation limits your flexibility. You may say with the wrong girl longer than you should out of convenience. It may seem convent now, when things go south it will be very inconvenient. Living together also increases the chances that children may pop up. Avoid, avoid, avoid.

At around your late twenties to early thirties, hopefully, you have an idea of the sort of girl you want to marry. As a general rule, I think the Muslims actually have some insight on this. Men should marry a girl half their age plus seven years. For a thirty year old guy that means a girl of around 22 (30/2+7=22). You also need to be well established in your career, with some money in the bank and a good future ahead. Remember, your career is your priority at this point. After you get married your family will become your top priority and it is critical that you are in a position to support a family BEFORE you get married.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10418 - 08/01/08 01:53 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
sipple2004 Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Logan, WV US
Great post Fist! I'm 22 and that was very enlightening. Alot of it is definately common sense that a typical male will forget when in the moment, but I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. All I have been doing is trying to find a girl that I can trust with my same intersts, that isn't a crazy bitch. But just like you said, it is all just auditions for a future wife. I have a recently (2 week recent) divorcee girl that I am intersted in. I have strong feelings for her but we have made it clear that we are just playing out our options. I am also talking to a 23 yr. old (also recently divorced), and I feel just as strongly for her and have no idea what to do or how to feel, and this is not the usual me. I usually keep the wall up high, but now I am starting to feel very confused. And I'm already starting the whole sleepover bullshit with the 23 yr. old cause she lives an hour away. Any advice or guidance you can give? You seem pretty intelligent, and my mind is too fluttered to sort any of my own thoughts out. I havn't been able to read at night because of this female "drama". My mind stays wandering on what to do and which one to go with.
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Josh Sipple

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#10420 - 08/01/08 06:12 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
I personally disagree with what you say about at what age you should start taking things seriously. In your teens you are practicing for adult life, and over twenty you should start living responsibly.
I moved together with my ex-girlfriend when I was 21 and lived together with her for about two years. Though our relationship didn't work in the end I'm glad I did what I did. Relationships teach something all the time, and not just about others but more importantly your self.

I am now two weeks from turning 24, am moving in with my girlfriend with whom I've been with 8 months, and wouldn't have it any other way. Being seriously committed doesn't hinder your other achievements in any way. I work six days a week, play in three bands and am recording full length albums for two of them, and still have all the time and energy for my girl. She supports me in all my things, and frankly, I don't think I would be doing all this if it wasn't for her support. I'd have suffered a burn out quite some time ago.

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#10421 - 08/01/08 07:58 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
Fist:

I think you're right. I saw a lot of people's careers get destroyed because of abandoning it for a significant other. Dropping out of college, quitting a good job to take care of a baby, scientists moving to bumfuck alaska where there's no work for them, etc.

I would just add that what you said applies equally well to women.

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#10423 - 08/01/08 08:17 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: coelentrate]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
What I don't understand is how some people are so inadequate to hold on to their careers and girls both at the same time. It shouldn't require any magic tricks, just some organizing. And if it proves to be impossible, maybe the girl wasn't right for you anyway. Or maybe it's you who lack the necessary skills...
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#10425 - 08/01/08 09:52 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
 Originally Posted By: MaggotFaceMoe
Or maybe it's you who lack the necessary skills...


Are you talking to me? Is there a problem here?

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#10428 - 08/01/08 10:44 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
In short, this reminds me of a joke/saying. Two rams are standing at the top of a hill looking down at a herd of sheep. The younger one says, let's run down the hill and fuck one of them. The older one says to the younger, no, let's walk down the hill and fuck them all.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#10432 - 08/01/08 04:23 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: sipple2004]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Look dude, keep it light. Sleeping over will lead to moving in. Don't do it.

What are your career plans? Don't you have anything better to do with that hour of drive time? Are you in school?

Honestly, where do you see yourself in 5 years? How about 10 years? How is what you are doing now that is staging you for future success?

Think about it objectively. Fist only dispenses tough love.

'Do what thou will is the whole of the law. And the whole of the law is love - love under will.' Love is a Fist...
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10433 - 08/01/08 04:48 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
*sigh*

Ok, here we go....

 Quote:
In your teens you are practicing for adult life,..


Really? How much rent where you paying at 16? High school is little more than govt subsidised dating. Until you move out of your parents house and have to pay your own way in the world you have no idea what adult life is.

 Quote:
I work six days a week, play in three bands and am recording full length albums for two of them, and still have all the time and energy for my girl.


What sort of work do you do? The kind you want to be doing for the next 5 years? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? How about 10 years? What are you doing right now, today, to stage yourself for future success?

 Quote:
She supports me in all my things, and frankly, I don't think I would be doing all this if it wasn't for her support.


So your a bum then? Sounds to me like she is paying your freight. How long do you think that will last? What does she want out of life? Ask her. Here is a scary little experiment - ask her where SHE wants YOU to be in 5-10 years. Oh my friend, does she have plans for you...

 Quote:
I'd have suffered a burn out quite some time ago.


At 23 you were 'burned out'? Life hasn't even gotten hard yet. Wait until life really puts the boots to you. You have no wife, no kids, no professional responsibilities and no real responsibilities of any kind! And you were burned out?!

 Quote:
I personally disagree with what you say about at what age you should start taking things seriously.


Of course you do, because at 23 you don't know what you don't know. Like I said, I have spent most of my life around guys your age in the exact same situation. It is like watching Macbeth. Only the actors change - the story remains the same. Want to know how it ends?

Love is a Fist...
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10466 - 08/03/08 10:21 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
In some respects, Fist, I agree with you, and in others, I don't.

I'll definitely agree that getting one's career on track is more important, but at the same time, I think that it's up to the individual to decide when the time is right to start dating. But that's just my opinion. After all, one can only do things their way to succeed in life.

As the old saying goes; if you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself.

Good advice though.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#10470 - 08/04/08 10:54 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: Fist]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
 Originally Posted By: Fist
*sigh*

Ok, here we go....

 Quote:
In your teens you are practicing for adult life,..


Really? How much rent where you paying at 16? High school is little more than govt subsidised dating. Until you move out of your parents house and have to pay your own way in the world you have no idea what adult life is.

 Quote:
I work six days a week, play in three bands and am recording full length albums for two of them, and still have all the time and energy for my girl.


What sort of work do you do? The kind you want to be doing for the next 5 years? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? How about 10 years? What are you doing right now, today, to stage yourself for future success?

 Quote:
She supports me in all my things, and frankly, I don't think I would be doing all this if it wasn't for her support.


So your a bum then? Sounds to me like she is paying your freight. How long do you think that will last? What does she want out of life? Ask her. Here is a scary little experiment - ask her where SHE wants YOU to be in 5-10 years. Oh my friend, does she have plans for you...

 Quote:
I'd have suffered a burn out quite some time ago.


At 23 you were 'burned out'? Life hasn't even gotten hard yet. Wait until life really puts the boots to you. You have no wife, no kids, no professional responsibilities and no real responsibilities of any kind! And you were burned out?!

 Quote:
I personally disagree with what you say about at what age you should start taking things seriously.


Of course you do, because at 23 you don't know what you don't know. Like I said, I have spent most of my life around guys your age in the exact same situation. It is like watching Macbeth. Only the actors change - the story remains the same. Want to know how it ends?

Love is a Fist...


About the rent thing, of course none when 16, but that was also the time when I think I didn't have to take my responsibilities to girls too seriously.
Haven't had my mom looking after me for quite some time now and no one having to support me.

Addressing the work issue: I work as a piercer and have been doing so for the last two years. I would also count music as a part time job, as it consumes a lot, and gives back some. I'm am continually expanding on that field, and getting to the bigger waters so to speak, as to expect something from it.
I plan to do the same in 5 years, in 10 years the same, though hopefully as a co-owner/owner of a shop.

If I get more energy/ will to achieve from her support, does that make me a bum? Maybe I should have mentioned that I support her back so that I wouldn't invoke such assumptions.

"You have no professional responsibilities and no real responsibilities of any kind!

Not sure what you mean by that. I have responsibilities to my work, I pay my rent/bills and have to keep my economy afloat, so that me and my girl can have some fun time too. You have no idea how expensive bars are in Finland ;\)

It is a possibility that I'm not the same as the average guys you've been hanging out with. I have no interest in swinging between girls, just to avoid responsibility. I don't like having different girls every weekend, nor do I like girls who do the same. I take things too seriously for that kind of living and enjoy greatly what my life looks like the way it seems to be going. And it sure is going nicely.

But thanks for your response, though I think some of the things were a bit off the mark they still gave something to think about.

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#10471 - 08/04/08 01:08 PM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
SevenDeadlySins Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 41
Loc: chicago illinois
I must say Fist you hit the nail on the head. Myself , when I first started my band asked myself what window of time do I see myself accomplishing things. I gave myself 10 years. If you play music as a job , you had better have a plan. If not , having a dream will NOT help you. In 10 years time I took my lil band in the garage , to playing as national support in the states on tour , playing to some truely remarkable crowds , and getting signed to a record label. It took small steps towards a greater goal to acheive that.

NOW it took a tremendous ammount of effort to get to that point . I work a day job. I finished 4 years of school to get a degree. I have a beautiful wife and 2 children.

The fact is if you can't focus your life in All aspects and think you'll figure it out, whats going to happen 10 years later ? Will you still be trying to figure it out?

At 23 , thats when you should be bucking down and getting really serious. At 29 I will say that the reason I have things that matter and my path has so far been left hand path blessed is because I took the time then to MAKE MY FATE now.

So Fist I applaud you on this post. I suggest young men on the board to take heed what is being said here. There is truth.


Edited by SevenDeadlySins (08/04/08 01:37 PM)
_________________________
Your Punishment Begins

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#10484 - 08/05/08 06:08 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: SevenDeadlySins]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
 Originally Posted By: SevenDeadlySins
If you play music as a job , you had better have a plan. If not , having a dream will NOT help you.


When I was younger and started playing in my first band, I had a dream, not exactly a foolish one, we played pretty good shit, but it's not just the music that makes things happen, rather things outside music. In other words, we had no plans, just wished to get some where from the garage... Back then it was a bitter lesson, realizing things weren't getting anywhere. But one to be learned. Now in my current main band we focus on the small but important steps and in a lot shorter time it has already gotten us so much farther. And playing with so called veterans in other bands has also taught me a lot.

 Originally Posted By: SevenDeadlySins
At 23 , thats when you should be bucking down and getting really serious.


True words. When I moved in with my ex-girlfriend we thought we had it all figured out, but guess I was too young and hadn't yet learned enough. Practically I brought the relationship to ruins, being less at home and too much out trying to fulfill my other needs. In priorities my girl came pretty much the last, and bands and bars the first. Although it all turned bitter and came crushing down, it sure has taught me a lot about things. And at least it gave good material for lyrics...

It's fascinating to see how much has been learned since then. I have no trouble prioritizing what comes first. I give all I can to my band and to my work, but I want to give a lot more to my girl. Now that I'm moving in with her, I feel more than ready. I have no trouble picturing us marrying. And it's something I have actually given a lot of thought. Being serious and knowing the other is serious as well makes it secure and worth all.

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#10485 - 08/05/08 06:36 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: coelentrate]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
And no, I wasn't aiming my critique at you, merely addressing what you brought up.
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#10487 - 08/05/08 08:56 AM Re: Advice for young men... [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I have no trouble picturing us marrying. And it's something I have actually given a lot of thought.


So what's holding you back? Your already living together in a committed relationship. Why not get married?

Believe me when I say this, living together is not the same as being married even though it may seem like it. Women attach all sorts things to marriage - things you never thought of and can't really understand. Your relationship will change and you may find that you want to go back to the way things were. I have found this to be universally true.

I personally don't know any married man who does not wish he did it differently.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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