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#22581 - 03/26/09 12:12 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Grandpabeast]
BaronVonShankly Offline
member


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 168
Loc: London
I became an archeologist because of my non agreement with religion. However with noah's ark at confrences I have heard the argument that the known world in biblical times only consisted of a few hundred miles.
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#23307 - 04/14/09 05:03 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: BaronVonShankly]
Jake Nathan Offline
lurker


Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3
Hey,
I'd just like to say that there has been found proof that the world existed for over a few million years in fossils and footprints, of which contradicts the bible of course, which says that the world only existed for 5000 years. And the excuses that some firm believers told me was:
a) the 6 days at the beginning of the bible reefers to millions of years for each day

b) that the flood in Noah caused the ground to look much older then it actually is.

I'm looking for answers to these excuses if anybody can help.

thanx in advance,
Jake
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#23323 - 04/14/09 02:56 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Jake Nathan]
Meq Offline
Banned
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Jake Nathan
And the excuses that some firm believers told me was:
a) the 6 days at the beginning of the bible reefers to millions of years for each day

You'll find "young earth" creationists, who insist that the Earth was created in 6 literal days and is thus (by biblical chronology) only a few thousand years old - as well as "old earth" ones who translate the Hebrew word 'yom' (meaning 'day') as 'indeterminate period of time', thus attempting to make Genesis compatible with the view that the Earth is at least millions of years old.

This does seem a somewhat lame attempt to shoehorn modern science into a Bronze Age myth, however.
It's based on the assumption that the creation story is basically right, so when evidence comes in against it, the story is given a little tweak so it still seems to 'fit'.
It's all pretty obscurantist reasoning, nothing like how science operates.

 Quote:
b) that the flood in Noah caused the ground to look much older then it actually is.

And thus our modern dating techniques are wrong and the Bible is right, etc.
Reminiscent of the idea that "fossils millions of years old are only there because God put them like that thousands of years ago to test our faith."

This commits the 'ad hoc' fallacy, as while looking like an argument, it's merely an assertion to explain away evidence while clinging to a preconceived belief. Since neither the original creation story, nor this excuse, have any empirical evidence going for them, they still lack credibility on grounds other than pure blind belief.

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#36205 - 03/11/10 01:48 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Meq]
CanisMajor Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
Thank you for posting this clip, xear!

Is this just a "one-off",or part of a series?

I imagine it would be popular amongst the Sunday school crowd.

Children love to humble buffoons by asking seemingly simple questions.
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#36206 - 03/11/10 02:13 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: CanisMajor]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Canis:

The Penn and Teller BULLSHIT series has been running on Showtime (cable TV) for a couple of years. They tackle almost every sacred cow you can think of, and some that slip through the bullshit detectors of most people.

If you search for BULLSHIT Penn and Teller on Youtube, you'll find a lot of different episodes.

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#36244 - 03/12/10 03:56 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Jake999]
Doomsage680 Offline
member


Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 111
Loc: NJ, USA
Hey

While agreeing that the Bible is bullshit in many ways, I'd like to let you know that Zeitgeist, at least the religious portions, have been largely refuted. I once looked into it and found several seemingly expert sources take it apart piece by piece. Some parts are clearly lies in the eyes of anyone with basic knowledge about Egyptian gods, one example being that Horus is not the head god in any way. Another example is the line drawn between the god Isis and Mary. It claims that the god is sometimes called Isis-meri and that Christians adopted it to be Mary. Christians certainly adopted many things from others, but nowhere is Isis known to be Isis-meri.
Other examples include this video here- skip ahead to 5:50 to get to the real debunking content.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuyIxKrw2Yk

I too was quite convinced of Zeitgeist until I looked further into it, and it falls apart rather quickly.
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#36250 - 03/12/10 08:44 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: xear]
PeteOfTheDead Offline
member


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria...
Penn and Teller have appeared on Australian prime time TV as magicians.

Bullshit has been screened here very late at night. I originally thought the show was similar to Mythbusters. Thanks goodness I've discovered it's true nature.

Penn's arguments concerning The Bible are very clear and very strong. I'm sure Teller could also make great arguments if silence wasn't part of his act :P .
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"Every moment is an experience."
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#36264 - 03/12/10 04:56 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: xear]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
If you are interested in the archćological, historical, and cultural significance of the Holy Bible, I highly recommend John Romer's Testament. Testament is not a book for those who just want to take potshots at the HB's mythology and the way it has been exploited over the centuries; it's rather a look at the overall phenomenon of the thing: an utterly fascinating and historically-illuminating story.

John Romer, who is one of my most revered archćologist heroes, has recently annoyed me by writing a new book on the Great Pyramid which maintains that it was, after all, just Khufu's tomb. Well, I've ordered a copy out of respect for him (which I certainly don't accord to that media freak Hawass), but I guess I will have to arrange for the Goa'uld to suck him up with their rings and re-educate him out of the Khufu lamexcuse.
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#36265 - 03/12/10 05:07 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Adversary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
Thank you for the link Michael. Another one I would recommend for an appropiate understanding of the bible is 101 Myths of the Bible. It is a eyeopening read that actually make the bible far more interesting than its current and more popular understanding of it.

http://www.amazon.com/101-Myths-Bible-Invented-Biblical/dp/1570718423

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#37019 - 03/25/10 09:18 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
While Zeitgeist is largely thrown together mishmash that's meant to elicit an emotional reaction, there are far better researched, thorough, documented works that advocate the "pagan parallels" issue than Zeitgeist. One of my favorites is The Jesus Mysteries by Freke and Gandy.

I always mention the pagan parallels because many Christians are ignorant of the fact that their religion is not unique. I've seen many a Christian advocate with a straight face that God sacrificing his son, the concept of salvation, commandments like "Thou shalt not kill" etc are exclusive to the Abrahamic religions. They really have no idea.
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#37023 - 03/25/10 04:02 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: XiaoGui17]
SOLERIFT Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 31
Loc: Dallas, TX
Excluding the pomp and shock value - the main theme of Zeitgeist's exposure of Christian Bible is that the bible is actually an "astro-theological literary hybrid".

To give zeitgeist some credit, they did try to "mash" a very broad area of study into 30 minutes; there is no way to treat this subject very well in that short of time.

Besides, most of the video seemed to be trying to expose banking conspiracies and 911 - which should have been totally different videos if you ask me, but that's just my opinion. They tried to tie three large arenas of controversy together in order to bring it under the cloak of a grand conspiracy, I understand that, and if that was their goal, then mission accomplished, but it came across as being poorly researched with sloppy explanations.

Many of the stories from the bible can be said to identify with characteristics and symbols numerous other cultures, and one does not have to stretch their imagination very far to imagine why this might be.....

As the church plundered its way through europe, the middle east, and the americas, it would seem imperative, from the point of view of a fighting strategist, to hybridize ideas from the local culture, as this would function as part of the manipulation which would help the battered remnants of the conquered people to unwittingly swallow the new "truth".

It would seem that the ideas/customs/imagery that could not be totally destroyed by the inquisition were partially assimilated.

I have a very old book in my collection, from 1629 - Zodiacus Vitae - it reminds me of what they were trying to illustrate with Zeitgeist, it tells the story of the sun as a human man in his journey as he passes through the astrological houses. Each chapter is a poem meant to represent an astrological sign and its characteristics.

One chapter in particular reminded me of Zeitgeist, a poem in which the main character of the story, the "hero" of the story, it you will, becomes thirsty after years of sailing and eating only the fish of sea - so he pulls ashore and then he enters a house where his greeter offers him water and tells him he can stay and drink of his water as much as he likes, but when his family's goat becomes thirsty, he will have to leave and take the goat with him.....

Even those with only a rudimentary knowledge of astrological symbolism might be able to see the parallels

Pieces(fish) into Aquarius(water) into Capricorn(goat)

A similar verse is related in both Matthew 14:13 and Luke 22:10

The bible is full of Archetypal and Astrological Symbolism, and a there is much of interesest and practical value that can be assimilated into ritual practice/philosophy - if approached with the beautiful advantage of a Satanic Mindset - in other words, without taking it literally, and without being blinded by moral stigmas that have affixed themselves to the stories over the years.

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#37061 - 03/26/10 05:57 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: SOLERIFT]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
Fuck I love these videos.
They have their share of information, but more than that, it’s the way in which the information is delivered.

It’s total Las Vegas Americanism. Say what you want about the yanks, but every now and then, they deliver a good point with a finesse and singular brutality that is uniquely “them”.
This is one of those moments.

On a side note, the episode on “PETA” made me giggle myself right into a under pant changing moment.

Fucking great.
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#37526 - 04/11/10 07:50 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Grandpabeast]
spinosaurus01 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 14
As far as Im concerned the buy-bull is just a rip of of older religious stories predating it. E.g, Jesus hanging on the cross is a rip of of Odin who hung on a tree.

I love when he says that the more they study into archeology, the more they realize it is utter crap.

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#37529 - 04/11/10 08:58 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: spinosaurus01]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
 Quote:
As far as Im concerned the buy-bull is just a rip of of older religious stories predating it. E.g, Jesus hanging on the cross is a rip of of Odin who hung on a tree.

Please try to do better than a pseudo-historical assertion. Yes, a number of religions flowed into or were grafted onto Christian mythology after its establishment, but the accounts of Jesus's crucifixion were written by people who almost certainly had never heard of Óđinn, let alone been in contact with people who worshiped him. Regardless, we presently have no archaeological or historical evidence that the story of Óđinn on Yggdrasil recounted in the Hávamál was even known or told among Germanic peoples during the time of Jesus. It may even be that the reverse is true, and that the eight stanzas which comprise the Rúnatal drew from Christian mythology.


Z.
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#37690 - 04/16/10 06:56 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Zophos]
spinosaurus01 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 14
 Originally Posted By: Zophos
 Quote:
As far as Im concerned the buy-bull is just a rip of of older religious stories predating it. E.g, Jesus hanging on the cross is a rip of of Odin who hung on a tree.

Please try to do better than a pseudo-historical assertion. Yes, a number of religions flowed into or were grafted onto Christian mythology after its establishment, but the accounts of Jesus's crucifixion were written by people who almost certainly had never heard of Óđinn, let alone been in contact with people who worshiped him. Regardless, we presently have no archaeological or historical evidence that the story of Óđinn on Yggdrasil recounted in the Hávamál was even known or told among Germanic peoples during the time of Jesus. It may even be that the reverse is true, and that the eight stanzas which comprise the Rúnatal drew from Christian mythology.


Z.


I very highly doubt the Pagan tales were taken from Christianity seeing as they were around before Christianity. I can see were you're coming from but to me Jesus is just a rip off of the age old allegory of death and rebirth. Of course the public didn't know about Odin (or any other God that the story Jesus was taken from) because they weren't allowed to. The people who wrote the bible did indeed know about the story of Odin because they had spent alot of time destroying these sorts of things to have the public ignorant. That way the story of Jesus could be enforced easier.

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