Page 3 of 3 <123
Topic Options
#37705 - 04/17/10 12:40 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: spinosaurus01]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
 Quote:
I very highly doubt the Pagan tales were taken from Christianity seeing as they were around before Christianity. I can see were you're coming from but to me Jesus is just a rip off of the age old allegory of death and rebirth.

But that isn't what you said. In your own words, "Jesus hanging on the cross is a rip of of Odin who hung on a tree." You clearly stated that the story of Jesus was derived specifically from the story of hinn, which you have failed thus far to support. My point was that we have no evidence one way or another that the story of the god impaling himself on Yggdrasil was even known among the Germanic peoples at the time of Jesus. And yes, modern scholarship on Germanic literature has put forward the possibility that that particular story may well have been derived from stories of Christ. I never claimed that this derivation had been proven, only that it is plausible, and without wishing to be haughty or flippantly dismissive, I'm going to trust Ph.D.-level research in the field over an unsupported assertion.


 Quote:
Of course the public didn't know about Odin (or any other God that the story Jesus was taken from) because they weren't allowed to.

The only reason we still have these mythological accounts at all, by and large, is due to their transcription and careful preservation by Christian monks and scholars. There certainly wasn't any sort of ban or discouragement in that regard, and indeed Christians at large were well aware of past deities and the stories surrounding them, both at a continental and a regional level. The existence of emblem books containing symbols and references to various mythologies is strong testimony to this fact, especially for a largely illiterate society.

Moreover, there are several examples of Christians who possessed an intimate knowledge of and familiarity with various pagan traditions. Sometimes this took the form of utter contempt (e.g., Sts. Peter Chrysologus and Olaf Haraldsson), other times deep admiration and acknowledgment of influence (e.g., Clement of Alexandria, Albertus Magnus, and Thomas Aquinas). Even a superficial glance at the Patrologiae Cursus Completus will disabuse one of any notion that the history of Christianity exhibits the uniformity you presume.


 Quote:
The people who wrote the bible did indeed know about the story of Odin because they had spent alot of time destroying these sorts of things to have the public ignorant. That way the story of Jesus could be enforced easier.

The people who wrote the New Testament were paupers, and had no political power to attack let alone destroy the Germanic peoples even if they wanted to. Christianization of those tribes wouldn't begin until Late Antiquity, centuries after the Bible was written, and Christianity didn't even reach Scandinavia until the 8th century, nor Norway or Iceland until just before 1000 CE. There is absolutely no evidence that the earliest Christians had any knowledge of hinn.

I also find it hard to believe that a group so allegedly anxious to ensure ignorance of other religions in general and forms of paganism in particular would put to writing as much as possible concerning them rather than simply allowing their bygone legacy to vanish completely, or actively journey to Islam-controlled Spain in order to obtain and translate the pagan texts which contained the natural philosophy they sought to learn. David C. Lindberg's masterful introductory volume, The Beginnings of Western Science, treats this in its ninth and especially tenth chapter, if you happen to be interested.


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

Top
#37875 - 04/19/10 03:40 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Jake999]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Penn and Teller also made a pretty good swipe at the intelligence of hippies:



This 'petition' has been done before, with similar success, but Penn and Teller sure make it entertaining...

I would like to see them on British cable and satellite TV.

Amazon do ship their DVDs to the UK (not sure if they are region-locked), but for now I'm relying on good old online media...

Top
#39741 - 07/01/10 01:57 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Grandpabeast]
NeoZombie Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Minnesota, USA
If the first statement in an arguement is false than all other statements made after that are also false. The genetics of Adam & Eve would have been so vile every one of their babies would have gills or some other hidious deformities.

Anyone with half a brain can decifer the lies of that ugly book. Thank You for the post had not seen this one by Pen&Teller. Keep'em coming nice post.
_________________________
http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/
*Xepera*

Top
#39756 - 07/01/10 08:46 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: NeoZombie]
Mongrel Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 7
Christianity by virtue of its roots took Pagan rituals and turned them into Christian doctrine. It was Christians that suppressed Paganism. It was Christians that killed and tortured Pagans. Christian holidays are taken from the Pagans.

In short the entire religion is a lie. It's entire history as been nothing but a history full of forgery and lies. A lot of the famous Christian father's acknowledged that to lie to advance the faith was OK, Eusibus being one.

Who can support or worship a book that preaches the killing of children and the list goes on. When you get right down to it the book is nothing more than bad mythology, poorly written and not even anywhere close to good literature.

The Christians stole from the Pagans just as they stole from other religions to support their lie.

Top
#40425 - 07/18/10 05:50 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Mongrel]
friend Offline
lurker


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 2
churchof666.blogspot.com
We don't take kindly to one-liner posts. Please ensure that your posts contain more than a simple link. Also, don't advertise your own or any other website unless it contains information germane to the discussion.


Edited by MawhrinSkel (07/18/10 06:19 AM)
Edit Reason: Warning.

Top
#41318 - 08/02/10 06:11 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: icu4whatur]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: icu4whatur
For any of you who have never heard of it, the movie "Zeitgeist" has an excellent explanation of the astrological "coincidences" surrounding the extraordinary similarities between the (mythical) lives of Jesus, Horus, Mithra, Krishna, Dionysus etc...


Many people believe Jesus was a historical figure who studied in India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_years_of_Jesus

We know Westerners, including Greeks and Romans, had been in contact with Indian thinkers, and since Greek and Sanskrit are relatively similar, it's not unrealistic to think the populations are related and therefore shared a founding mythos.

In addition, portions of the Bible appear similar to Phoenician, Babylonian, and Greek sources; we know much of Jewish thought, from which the Bible originated, was heavily influenced by the Greeks.

It seems likely to me that the Bible is a mishmash of Jewish, Pagan/Canaanite, Greek, Hindu, Buddhist, Phoenician, Babylonian, Egyptian and Roman thought. As a result, we should view it as a mutable document that could even be modified to be pro-Satanic.

Then again, I come at this from a Hindu view, which is that there is one reality, and all religions describe it, so we might as well consider all religions to be one religion with different branches for different metaphors/interpretations.
_________________________
SC / O9A

Top
#42459 - 08/25/10 04:49 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: SODOMIZER]
AceChristian Offline
Banned--Spammer
stranger


Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 13
One thing is for sure, the death of Jesus is the best thing that ever happened, do u know why, its becoz through that every one who believes in him will live with him 4ever, the salvation of God is the answer... Lets us not be blinded

Edited by AceChristian (08/25/10 04:54 PM)
Edit Reason: Grammar purposes

Top
#42460 - 08/25/10 04:53 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: AceChristian]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: AceChristian
One thing is for sure, the death of Jesus is the best thing ever happened, do u know why, its becoz through that every one who believes in him will live with him 4ever, salvation of God is the the answer...


Why don't you follow him, post haste.

By the by, don't you think it's rude to proselytize in places where you KNOW it's not welcomed?
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#42465 - 08/25/10 05:56 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: AceChristian]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: AceChristian
One thing is for sure, the death of Jesus is the best thing that ever happened, do u know why, its becoz through that every one who believes in him will live with him 4ever, the salvation of God is the answer... Lets us not be blinded


Grammar purposes aside; you seem to be blinded by the light...
We do in fact welcome individuals of the Xian belief here at the 600 Club, as long as they are willing to enter dialogue...

Your public display leaves something to be desired...
Proper spelling for one thing, a rudimentary show of intelligence another...

I will ban you without hesitation if you fail to get your act together,
Monotheology is distasteful in itself, moron followers of the same belief is another..

Comprende?
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#42469 - 08/25/10 07:59 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: xear]
Dedalus Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 51
Loc: Ireland
That Penn and Teller video is absurd. Telling people that there is a chemical present in resevoirs and foods that causes excessive urination and vomiting and then laughing at people for wanting it banned because they "tricked" them is childish. Wow, they know of an alternative term for water which represents it's chemical structure with the same validity as the term H2O. You know what they should do? Put time, effort, and money into making a video where they raise concern about poisoned baby food and then mock anyone who expresses a similar concern.

I've signed a petition or two, back when I had any kind of faith in their efficacy. I didnt hang around for a few minutes questioning the petitioners motives, or even reading the information they gave me. I expressed an opinion on the issue they were collecting petitions for. If it was clear that I agreed with their views, I signed and got the hell out of there. If the protesters looked anything like woman one in this video, I probably would have kept any negative opinions to myself, and signed whatever. Because it's just a fucking petition.

But Penn and Teller are right. Conducting a little experiment on whether people will sign a petition banning chemicals presented in a negative light with a "hot blonde" offering the pen isn't stupid.
It's those hippies.
Hippies are stupid.
_________________________
Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us.

Top
#42555 - 08/27/10 04:12 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Dedalus]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Telling people that there is a chemical present in resevoirs and foods that causes excessive urination and vomiting and then laughing at people for wanting it banned because they "tricked" them is childish.


I disagree.

An unthinking, unquestioning mind - now that is childish and absurd.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#42560 - 08/27/10 05:35 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dedalus Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 51
Loc: Ireland
I would consider certain things to be unworthy of rigorous questioning. I can see the point the video attempted to make - but I just find it embarrasing. Certainly, to accept everything one is told is childish, absurd, etc. But this is a bad example. Suspicion against an effort to ban chemicals presented as dangerous strikes me as a little paranoid/unecessary.

Say it was for real.
The petition would likely have little to no effect.
Say you sign it, no questions asked. Common with petitions. Maybe it helps ban a chemical from water/food/whatever. That won't be missed. It doesnt get passed, it seems reasonable to assume that there was no harm done.
I like to think I question things enough, and dont just accept them at their face value. Like with most people, this is sometimes automatic, and sometimes a conscious effort. No-one likes being fooled, negatively affecting their lives in a way that could easily have been avoided. But a petition isn't very threatening. I have no problem admitting that I would either have signed the petition and moved on, or simply said no thanks - I wouldnt have asked a single question, unless the topic aroused my curiosity.
I've been stupid, and I've been fooled. It happens less the more I open my eyes, as time passes, and so on.
But worrying about a petition like that is, at the risk of sounding pompous, beneath me.
Last hypothetical. Say I'm there on that video, pen in hand.
I'm not going to be kicking myself at home, cursing my lack of vigilance.

I just wouldnt care.
_________________________
Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us.

Top
#42579 - 08/27/10 10:38 PM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Dedalus]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
It is not about whether or not the petition would have any effects, it is not about the content of the example petition given; it is entirely about the gullibility of people and the ludicrous things that gullibility can get them to do. This is a perfect example of that.

All they did was pick another name for water and describe it with traits that is does have. Too much water can indeed cause excessive urination, sweating, diarrhea etc. The people were simply swayed by the "scientific" wording. This means their actions are guided by an appeal to authority fallacy; much like the way companies will often throw people in lab coats in their commercial. It adds the appearance of credibility where there might not be any.

I'm reminded of an episode of The Man Show where they went around and got women to sign a petition to "end woman suffrage". There were some women who found it offensive but for the most part it was well received.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#42608 - 08/29/10 12:32 AM Re: Bullshit: The Bible [Re: Dedalus]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Dedalus
Say it was for real.
The petition would likely have little to no effect.
Say you sign it, no questions asked. Common with petitions. Maybe it helps ban a chemical from water/food/whatever. That won't be missed. It doesnt get passed, it seems reasonable to assume that there was no harm done.


DDT was banned because it interfered with the reproduction of birds. Mosquitos flourished and spread malaria at record rates, killing several humans.

People are clamoring for the banning of irradiation, a food sanitizing method that could potentially prevent millions of cases of food poisoning.

I'm sorry, but yes, these bans DO have an effect on things. They can make everyday products excessively expensive, put human lives at risk, or halt major advances in medical progress because people have kneejerk reactions to things they don't understand.

I remember a girl freaking out and refusing to drink a bottle of milk because it was "pasteurized" and "homogenized" and that sounded too scary and scientific to her.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxO3bPNyWzo
An example of how many activists actually do create hysteria over the harmless.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (08/29/10 12:37 AM)
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lsst

Top
Page 3 of 3 <123


Moderator:  Woland, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, TV is God, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.021 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 27 queries. Zlib compression disabled.