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#105702 - 03/02/16 02:59 PM Is there anybody here who would die for ideals
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
This is not another post where I will shame hypocrites and social rejects for flocking to the darkness and thus tarnishing it's greatness, this is a serious post, with a serious question and I request it be treated as thus.

The UN recently rejected a Pagan claim to the Parthenon in Greece, they wanted to worship in a temple that was built by Pagans, but is now a tourist attraction of christians. The reason they denied it was that apparently they had great respect for their ancestors too. But if so, then why be a part of the legacy of the destruction of precious art, literature, and culture? If you respect your roots why bow to the religions forced upon you. Mental chains for a spiritual slave.

Why not restrict christians from going to church then? Or burn them down in the name of "equality" (kind of like Varg did)? Obviously because they are numerous, and could easily crush the opposition. The more I think about it the more I am disgusted with myself, here I am studying, working, living life as they would want me to, instead of forcing change. Do you ever get this feeling? Are your ideals, principles, standards, or beliefs something that you only talk about, or is it something deeply rooted in every fiber of your being?

While I can understand how extremism due to religion or spirituality could be considered barbaric, complacency and cowardice could be considered pathetic. I'd rather be a barbarian than a coward, a wife-beater than a cuckold, a rapist than a victim of rape, predator than prey.

In an age where christianity is in decline, and has become complacent like the Pagans of old who allowed them to fester like rotten flesh from a never ending sore. They say wise men learn from history, and fools learn from experience, if history has taught me anything it is that those who do not cease the opportunity to conquer other people, eventually end up being conquered themselves. Many people in years past had to conceal who they are, I still do since i'm unfortunately from South Africa where they will burn me alive, and if they were outed for believing something different would be prosecuted or be laid off at work. The ability to organize is something that we are taking for granted.

Imagine a world without jews, christians, or muslims. We have our differences, but we have a common enemy I believe, unless you are liberal and thus not LHP. If I burn down many churches will I feel as if I had inflicted retribution? If I rape nuns in isolated convents, would that really be so bad? Even if I don't resort to violence in protest against these peoples, and their treatment of historical art I will probably be arrested. If I organize a group of a thousand people to go and do a ritual in the middle of the Parthenon, and refuse to leave until they remove me, will it really even make an impact? Sure I can manipulate them, using their liberal ignorance to my advantage, but I doubt I would win the battle. So what's the point of peaceful protest when there is no chance of victory? Going out with a suicide-vest or a massacre in a church then burning it down seems so much more poetic.

I am trying everyday to not lose my mind and kill people, I really enjoy my studies, I like to learn many things, knowledge is my only escape. But I don't know how long I can be content with living this way, isolation is natural to me, I don't care about others who believe what I do, they simply don't exist here, but principle is everything to me. I guess my real question is, in a couple of years from now, if you hear about a crazy guy in Greece that did such acts as I have described? Would you worship me? Would I be your messiah? Hahahaha, or would you be a bunch of hippies and condemn violence? I guess it doesn't really matter, but if you beg me I will speed up the process, unfortunately I do not know how to procure guns in Greece, I can however join the boeremag and learn to make suicide-vests. Life seems pointless without the belief in immortality, whether it is cosmic or historical.
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#105703 - 03/02/16 03:03 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
I guess in Africa one develops a violent mentality, so I will understand if westerners cannot sympathize.
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#105704 - 03/02/16 03:42 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1336
Loc: CA
Most Westerners simply haven't been put in a position where they have to, and that only speaks to the secular nature of their society and relative peace on the borders.

The situations worth dying for are few and far between. Wartorn regions are a bit different.

I would like to think in an authoritarian situation where everything was threatened lest I submit to anothers rule I'd be willing to die to stand my ground.

Unfortunately I am in the US, so the opportunity has yet to present itself.

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#105705 - 03/02/16 04:27 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Austin, TX
I have no compunction or moral quandry with the raping of nuns or the burning of churches or suicide bombings or whatnot. But it does strike me as ineffective and pointless.

You mentioned Varg (*cough*Kristian*cough*). When all is said and done, he accomplished fuck all. The churches were all reconstructed, some even bigger and with more nifty modern features than they had before. Euronymous is dead--over some personal beef, with free publicity, and he wasn't even a Christian.

Raping nuns and torching churches doesn't make so much as a chink in Christianity's armor. On the contrary, you embolden them, get them flocking to the pews to unite against that common enemy they'd fabricate if not for idiots foolish enough to tinder their damn persecution complex.

What's the end game, exactly? What's the final, ultimate goal that you seek to accomplish? And how is your little suicide mission going to further that goal?

Are your ideals, principles, standards, or beliefs something that you only talk about, or is it something deeply rooted in every fiber of your being?

I don't know about you, but I value efficacy. Your seem to place more value on notoriety.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but for every special forces badass there's gonna be thousands of POGs scrubbing latrines. If you actually want to contribute to a coordinated attack, pick up a brush, not an RPG. Trying to be a lone wolf badass will end with spectacularly hilarious failure, not glory. This ain't Hollywood, kid. Leave the tactics to the tacticians.

Clearly you have some pent-up aggression that you need to work out, but don't flatter yourself and say you're contributing to some sort of greater cause or serving some higher principle by acting on it. Just admit to yourself that you haven't got the grit for the long haul--the drab, tedious, unsung work that actual victory requires. You wanna check out for some instant gratification, some 15 minutes of infamy.

Me, I say let the lambs preach to one another about loving their enemies--it's only to my advantage if they actually do. Let them grow fat and complacent. Let them not see us coming. When you're grossly outnumbered, stealth is to your advantage.

And FFS, somebody knock out Untermensch before he gives away our position.
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#105706 - 03/02/16 05:24 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The only cause is to become a god, so it's not as much making a mark, as it is self-satisfaction. I never tried to be a badass. I think living like I do would qualify me as one in a western point of view though. You look at the Australians as the rugged hard men, and they look to us, and there's a reason for that. You come from a society where white supremacy is a romantic story, where I come from it's real. So please don't lump me in with 1st world pussies like you. You come from a place where you've never been stabbed or shot, I have, the latter only once though. You couldn't survive here with that idea that soldiers are tough. It's easy to submit to the orders of somebody else to motivate you into training, training yourself is far more difficult. You have human rights which I do not, you can quite literally look it up. If somebody kills me i'm not even in a file on a computer, white genocide is a reality, the only ones who survive are those who are born rich and thus can immigrate, and those who can impose their wills upon the slaves. So don't think you know me dude, please fuck off with your western ideals, or move here and get some experience in a country where more people die a day than most war-zones.
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#105707 - 03/02/16 05:33 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
There are things you can teach me, for example I've never been on a train, never been on an airplane, we don't have luxuries like that. You can teach me these posh little things like how to connect to your community's free wifi, oh how manly. If you want to learn to hunt game I can teach you, if you want to learn to play provincial rugby I can teach you, if you want to learn rough and tumble, or how to be a commando, Afrikaans children are taught that from 7-15 in school, we invented commando. So dude, please don't compare civilization to where I come from. You'd be better off in North Korea statistically speaking than here as a white person, and also being a white person here is more dangerous than being a soldier in any war-zone, since you have a higher chance of being killed. Now I know it's not something to really brag about, it is a backwards piece of shit country, but at the very least i'm not some kid who grew up in a metropolis where I get spoiled by a government that gives a fuck about me, which would result in me being weak like you. Struggle breeds strength, not peace.
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#105709 - 03/02/16 08:10 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2089
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
The more I think about it the more I am disgusted with myself, here I am studying, working, living life as they would want me to, instead of forcing change. Do you ever get this feeling?


No. I'm not a messiah. I have neither leadership nor oratory skills to move crowds and lead them onto barricades. I also don't believe that the bloody revolution would change anything for the better. There is no such a thing as paradise on earth. There will always be injustice and abuse, the rich and the poor. Besides, I strongly agree with Churchill that democracy is the worst system except all the others that have been tried and tested. Many people fought and died for the freedom we have today so now what? Destroy all of that? And introduce what? An authoritarian regime? Happy anarchy ruled by gangs and mafia?

 Quote:
Are your ideals, principles, standards, or beliefs something that you only talk about, or is it something deeply rooted in every fiber of your being?


I'm not my beliefs, opinions or views. In fact, I change them pretty often. Ideals, principles, standards are meaningless. They don't mean shit. At best, they are the cause of wars, racial tensions and various forms of extremism or simple douchebaggery. Either you are a person of integrity and honor or you aren't. There are no rules to follow or standards to rise to.

As for your question, I do appreciate heroism, especially people who are ready to give their lives for their loved ones. I don't know how I would behave in an extreme situation. Nobody knows that. Everyone would prefer to turn out to be a hero but it's all speculation now. To make some definite claims here would be empty posturing.

 Quote:
Imagine a world without jews, christians, or muslims. We have our differences, but we have a common enemy I believe, unless you are liberal and thus not LHP.


It's a prime example of delusional thinking. There will always be religion even if Judaism, Islam and Christianity die. They will be replaced by other new religions or political ideologies that will become a substitute for a religion. Just like in the Soviet Union, which persecuted Christianity and introduced communism instead and the worship of Stalin.

The change takes time. I think your country has bigger problems than just religion. My country was under occupation for nearly two hundred years with a short break. It was also under the totalitarian regime for 45 years and though communism got milder with time, in the beginning there was the reign of terror. Plenty of people lost their lives or were imprisoned. The transformation was also quite painful. Social and political changes take time, several decades at least.
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#105711 - 03/02/16 08:32 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Untermensch23
This is not another post where I will shame hypocrites and social rejects for flocking to the darkness and thus tarnishing it's greatness...

Well, that didn't last long.

You realize all your rants about my purportedly posh existence have absolutely jack to do with the points I made? Replying to you, I can almost count down "Ad hominem in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . "

Also, I have more than a couple white friends living in South Africa. The general consensus among them is that, while the place is a crime-ridden shit hole and racial tensions are a major contributing factor, the narrative you're spinning is a hysterical exaggeration.

If the end game is "self satisfaction," why request commentary or opinions from others on a forum? If all you wanted was your own approval, you could have just acted without the need to stand up and scream, "WITNESS ME!" I'm guessing it's because your real end game is notoriety.



Edited by XiaoGui17 (03/02/16 08:33 PM)
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#105715 - 03/03/16 02:38 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3300
 Originally Posted By: untermensch
The UN recently rejected a Pagan claim to the Parthenon in Greece, they wanted to worship in a temple that was built by Pagans, but is now a tourist attraction of christians. The reason they denied it was that apparently they had great respect for their ancestors too. But if so, then why be a part of the legacy of the destruction of precious art, literature, and culture? If you respect your roots why bow to the religions forced upon you. Mental chains for a spiritual slave.

1) Allowance would be giving in to a continued destruction of the site. It would mean a heightened "stress" and wear on this historical place.
2) "Pagan" from now is not the same as the religious people from back then. It can't be stressed enough those hippies who took up the label in current days have no fucking clue what they're doing. Historical inaccuracies abound.
3) People (unconscious or not) have always been spiritual slaves. The mind likes to chain itself up. It's wired in our biology.


As for the original question...
Nope.


Edited by Dimitri (03/03/16 02:40 AM)
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#105720 - 03/03/16 05:21 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Dimitri]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Would I die for 'ideals'? While such exhibitions of radicalism make for great propaganda fodder, I've lived a pretty coddled life so I can't make that call from experience.

 Quote:
The UN recently rejected a Pagan claim to the Parthenon in Greece, they wanted to worship in a temple that was built by Pagans, but is now a tourist attraction of christians. The reason they denied it was that apparently they had great respect for their ancestors too. But if so, then why be a part of the legacy of the destruction of precious art, literature, and culture? If you respect your roots why bow to the religions forced upon you. Mental chains for a spiritual slave.


Considering the EU is aiding the architectural restoration of the structure and advocating for the return of its pilfered relics, I'd hardly say they are aiding a legacy of destruction.

It probably also deserves mention that the Parthenon itself was never actually a real "temple"--it saw more use as a treasury than a ritual site, and the main image was a repository for gold rather than a functional cult icon--there were no priests or priestesses, and no altar.

Also it begs the question--who "owns" the Parthenon? The people of Athens collectively who have fertilized the roots of the structure with their blood (numbering more Christians, I might add, than polytheists), the Greek government who have authoritative jursdiction over the area, the EU who oversee its preservation and restoration, or a tiny minority who claim to represent the religion of its builders? And if the latter, among the many Hellenic Neo-Pagan organizations that (not unlike Satanism) run the gamut from loose "the gods are just symbols" to hard polytheism--which group gets priority? Would the site just turn into another Stonehenge, doomed to be annually overrun by buffoons in silly hats claiming to be the reincarnation of Gandalf?



Kidding aside, if one wants to take up the task of religious reconstructionism seriously, it seems more sensible to build new temples rather than try to fill the shoes of a 1,500-year old state sanctioned religion.
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#105726 - 03/04/16 11:19 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Uberdouche
I guess my real question is, in a couple of years from now, if you hear about a crazy guy in Greece that did such acts as I have described? Would you worship me? Would I be your messiah? Hahahaha, or would you be a bunch of hippies and condemn violence? I guess it doesn't really matter, but if you beg me I will speed up the process, unfortunately I do not know how to procure guns in Greece, I can however join the boeremag and learn to make suicide-vests. Life seems pointless without the belief in immortality, whether it is cosmic or historical.


Are you for real? I get it, you took a nose dive into your batshit ideals and you want someone else to help you tow the party line. May I suggest creating a Facebook group to gain a following? I doubt you'll find it here.

If you do something of note, I'll be sure to throw my .02 down on it. You can put my shiny little turd on display and feel accomplished.

Would I die for ideals? Who the hell knows, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
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#105729 - 03/04/16 12:17 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
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@general reply

If you consider the notion of family an ideal, then yes - absolutely. Take, for instance, my lil bro (who is a beast in his own right) got jumped not too long ago. We're not the types who go running to the police or whatever; instead we spent a good chunk of the day afterward cruising to find these cats - and find them we did. Granted, it was a bunch of 18 year olds, but in all fairness they came in numbers and are old enough to stab someone. Not a damn one of them is feeling so nice today.

Pamilya muna. And yeah, I'd die for that. In fact, it's the only reason I am alive. Blood.
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#105761 - 03/06/16 01:11 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Dimitri]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
You are referring to Wiccan styled peoples, I completely agree with you, however it is an ignorant assumption that all are like that, in fact most are not. That's like me saying that because Christians promote propaganda that satanists ritually sacrifice babies, eat people, and use candles made of baby-fat, then that automatically describes you. Reconstruction of Pagan traditions have been aided by Archaeology and Anthropology, this isn't the dark ages my friend.

You claim that people have been spiritual slaves because you are most likely a laveyan-type Atheist who believes that you were born a god. While I share the ideals of Plato, you most certainly were not born a god, you were simply born with the potential to be one. The fact of the matter is there are naturally souls with less potential, thus it would be nearly impossible for them to achieve such a feat, this would of course be the majority of people. There have always existed different spiritual systems for the elite and the common peoples of the Pagan world.

If you know anything regarding evolutionary biology, you would know that white/European people originate from India, which is part of the reason we are referred to as Indo-European. Some have Persian ancestry, but generally speaking we were Northern Indians who had migrated towards what is now Europe and parts of Russia. Europeans, Indians, and Persians are all the same race (Aryan/Caucasian), the Indians have always known this, because the ruling class studies the Vedas, the Vedas is only studied by the elite of the caste system in India, just as most Pagans sought to worship gods, and the elites sought to become them. So if spiritual slavery is the pursuit of self-deification then I'd love to be a slave.

The point of that particular paragraph was this is a temple built by Pagans, for Pagans, to worship or do ritual now controlled by Christians. If you do not sympathize, then go be nihilistic and depressed in the corner, don't care much for atheists.
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#105762 - 03/06/16 01:17 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
That statement seems a lot like the statement a neo-nazi in disguise would use use to try and convince people he has black friends. Not that I have a problem with that though. Also these white friends of yours from which province do they come? Are they Afrikaans or English? There is a world of difference between coming from a farm, a rural community, or lower class to lower-middle class suburbs surrounded by townships, and coming from gated communities in the Western Cape or Johannesburg. Very uneducated of you, though I would expect a reject to react in such a way. After all you're doing this to feel powerful, because you got picked on in school aren't you? Why don't you go shoot some people like in Columbine? Because they had balls and you're just a pussy that's why, so fuck off and go suck dick someplace else coward.

Self-satisfaction could be complemented if the scale of such an event were to be larger than what could possibly be accomplished by a lone individual, but since in your society it's much more preferable to be normal than exceptional, retracted than outspoken I can understand your aversion to expression.
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#105763 - 03/06/16 01:36 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: The Zebu]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The reason gold was housed, was because common peoples believed in sacrificing their wealth or livestock to the gods in a sign of devotion, and also in hopes that they might gain favour from a god. So it was part of ritual practice. Secondly I agree with your last point, building a new temple would be a far better solution, however has it been done this far? The reason it has not been done yet regardless of geography is because Pagans have refused to take advantage of the modern liberal ideals of Europeans, meaning if for example a thousand pagans or more were to storm the Parthenon and refuse people entry, scuffle with authorities and so on, and then after that more such events occur at other Pagan temples around Europe, the EU would comply, but until then, sitting and doing nothing is not going to accomplish anything.

There were not more Christians during it's construction, you are surely mistaken, or you are part of some Christian agenda that wants to claim that the Inquisition never transpired, and that they (or you) never destroyed ancient wonders of the world in a display of their barbarism. The reason it has to be deemed "neo-paganism" in the first place is due to the Inquisition, because although there might have been survivors who passed on traditions in an oral fashion, they had to integrate or be killed. So judging somebody for being neo-pagan is a rather ignorant thing to do, considering they try to preserve something beautiful that their ancestors were deprived of in the first place.

The point is, ignorant being, that if I should not ban Christians from worshiping in their church, if I should not turn the Vatican into a petting zoo or a sideshow anymore than it already is, then they should not do that to places of worship related to my religion. You can judge the people in pointy hats as much as you like, but at least unlike yourself they have the courage to own up to what they believe in, to not hide behind a skirt, to stand up for what they believe. If that is not a quality you consider admirable, then we clearly do not share the same perspective. Maybe you value pretentiousness, cowardice, and submission, thus we are clearly not of the same cloth.


Edited by Ubermensch23 (03/06/16 01:38 PM)
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