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#105702 - 03/02/16 02:59 PM Is there anybody here who would die for ideals
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
This is not another post where I will shame hypocrites and social rejects for flocking to the darkness and thus tarnishing it's greatness, this is a serious post, with a serious question and I request it be treated as thus.

The UN recently rejected a Pagan claim to the Parthenon in Greece, they wanted to worship in a temple that was built by Pagans, but is now a tourist attraction of christians. The reason they denied it was that apparently they had great respect for their ancestors too. But if so, then why be a part of the legacy of the destruction of precious art, literature, and culture? If you respect your roots why bow to the religions forced upon you. Mental chains for a spiritual slave.

Why not restrict christians from going to church then? Or burn them down in the name of "equality" (kind of like Varg did)? Obviously because they are numerous, and could easily crush the opposition. The more I think about it the more I am disgusted with myself, here I am studying, working, living life as they would want me to, instead of forcing change. Do you ever get this feeling? Are your ideals, principles, standards, or beliefs something that you only talk about, or is it something deeply rooted in every fiber of your being?

While I can understand how extremism due to religion or spirituality could be considered barbaric, complacency and cowardice could be considered pathetic. I'd rather be a barbarian than a coward, a wife-beater than a cuckold, a rapist than a victim of rape, predator than prey.

In an age where christianity is in decline, and has become complacent like the Pagans of old who allowed them to fester like rotten flesh from a never ending sore. They say wise men learn from history, and fools learn from experience, if history has taught me anything it is that those who do not cease the opportunity to conquer other people, eventually end up being conquered themselves. Many people in years past had to conceal who they are, I still do since i'm unfortunately from South Africa where they will burn me alive, and if they were outed for believing something different would be prosecuted or be laid off at work. The ability to organize is something that we are taking for granted.

Imagine a world without jews, christians, or muslims. We have our differences, but we have a common enemy I believe, unless you are liberal and thus not LHP. If I burn down many churches will I feel as if I had inflicted retribution? If I rape nuns in isolated convents, would that really be so bad? Even if I don't resort to violence in protest against these peoples, and their treatment of historical art I will probably be arrested. If I organize a group of a thousand people to go and do a ritual in the middle of the Parthenon, and refuse to leave until they remove me, will it really even make an impact? Sure I can manipulate them, using their liberal ignorance to my advantage, but I doubt I would win the battle. So what's the point of peaceful protest when there is no chance of victory? Going out with a suicide-vest or a massacre in a church then burning it down seems so much more poetic.

I am trying everyday to not lose my mind and kill people, I really enjoy my studies, I like to learn many things, knowledge is my only escape. But I don't know how long I can be content with living this way, isolation is natural to me, I don't care about others who believe what I do, they simply don't exist here, but principle is everything to me. I guess my real question is, in a couple of years from now, if you hear about a crazy guy in Greece that did such acts as I have described? Would you worship me? Would I be your messiah? Hahahaha, or would you be a bunch of hippies and condemn violence? I guess it doesn't really matter, but if you beg me I will speed up the process, unfortunately I do not know how to procure guns in Greece, I can however join the boeremag and learn to make suicide-vests. Life seems pointless without the belief in immortality, whether it is cosmic or historical.
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#105703 - 03/02/16 03:03 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
I guess in Africa one develops a violent mentality, so I will understand if westerners cannot sympathize.
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#105704 - 03/02/16 03:42 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
Most Westerners simply haven't been put in a position where they have to, and that only speaks to the secular nature of their society and relative peace on the borders.

The situations worth dying for are few and far between. Wartorn regions are a bit different.

I would like to think in an authoritarian situation where everything was threatened lest I submit to anothers rule I'd be willing to die to stand my ground.

Unfortunately I am in the US, so the opportunity has yet to present itself.


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#105705 - 03/02/16 04:27 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1185
Loc: Austin, TX
I have no compunction or moral quandry with the raping of nuns or the burning of churches or suicide bombings or whatnot. But it does strike me as ineffective and pointless.

You mentioned Varg (*cough*Kristian*cough*). When all is said and done, he accomplished fuck all. The churches were all reconstructed, some even bigger and with more nifty modern features than they had before. Euronymous is dead--over some personal beef, with free publicity, and he wasn't even a Christian.

Raping nuns and torching churches doesn't make so much as a chink in Christianity's armor. On the contrary, you embolden them, get them flocking to the pews to unite against that common enemy they'd fabricate if not for idiots foolish enough to tinder their damn persecution complex.

What's the end game, exactly? What's the final, ultimate goal that you seek to accomplish? And how is your little suicide mission going to further that goal?

Are your ideals, principles, standards, or beliefs something that you only talk about, or is it something deeply rooted in every fiber of your being?

I don't know about you, but I value efficacy. Your seem to place more value on notoriety.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but for every special forces badass there's gonna be thousands of POGs scrubbing latrines. If you actually want to contribute to a coordinated attack, pick up a brush, not an RPG. Trying to be a lone wolf badass will end with spectacularly hilarious failure, not glory. This ain't Hollywood, kid. Leave the tactics to the tacticians.

Clearly you have some pent-up aggression that you need to work out, but don't flatter yourself and say you're contributing to some sort of greater cause or serving some higher principle by acting on it. Just admit to yourself that you haven't got the grit for the long haul--the drab, tedious, unsung work that actual victory requires. You wanna check out for some instant gratification, some 15 minutes of infamy.

Me, I say let the lambs preach to one another about loving their enemies--it's only to my advantage if they actually do. Let them grow fat and complacent. Let them not see us coming. When you're grossly outnumbered, stealth is to your advantage.

And FFS, somebody knock out Untermensch before he gives away our position.
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#105706 - 03/02/16 05:24 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The only cause is to become a god, so it's not as much making a mark, as it is self-satisfaction. I never tried to be a badass. I think living like I do would qualify me as one in a western point of view though. You look at the Australians as the rugged hard men, and they look to us, and there's a reason for that. You come from a society where white supremacy is a romantic story, where I come from it's real. So please don't lump me in with 1st world pussies like you. You come from a place where you've never been stabbed or shot, I have, the latter only once though. You couldn't survive here with that idea that soldiers are tough. It's easy to submit to the orders of somebody else to motivate you into training, training yourself is far more difficult. You have human rights which I do not, you can quite literally look it up. If somebody kills me i'm not even in a file on a computer, white genocide is a reality, the only ones who survive are those who are born rich and thus can immigrate, and those who can impose their wills upon the slaves. So don't think you know me dude, please fuck off with your western ideals, or move here and get some experience in a country where more people die a day than most war-zones.
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#105707 - 03/02/16 05:33 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
There are things you can teach me, for example I've never been on a train, never been on an airplane, we don't have luxuries like that. You can teach me these posh little things like how to connect to your community's free wifi, oh how manly. If you want to learn to hunt game I can teach you, if you want to learn to play provincial rugby I can teach you, if you want to learn rough and tumble, or how to be a commando, Afrikaans children are taught that from 7-15 in school, we invented commando. So dude, please don't compare civilization to where I come from. You'd be better off in North Korea statistically speaking than here as a white person, and also being a white person here is more dangerous than being a soldier in any war-zone, since you have a higher chance of being killed. Now I know it's not something to really brag about, it is a backwards piece of shit country, but at the very least i'm not some kid who grew up in a metropolis where I get spoiled by a government that gives a fuck about me, which would result in me being weak like you. Struggle breeds strength, not peace.
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#105709 - 03/02/16 08:10 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
The more I think about it the more I am disgusted with myself, here I am studying, working, living life as they would want me to, instead of forcing change. Do you ever get this feeling?


No. I'm not a messiah. I have neither leadership nor oratory skills to move crowds and lead them onto barricades. I also don't believe that the bloody revolution would change anything for the better. There is no such a thing as paradise on earth. There will always be injustice and abuse, the rich and the poor. Besides, I strongly agree with Churchill that democracy is the worst system except all the others that have been tried and tested. Many people fought and died for the freedom we have today so now what? Destroy all of that? And introduce what? An authoritarian regime? Happy anarchy ruled by gangs and mafia?

 Quote:
Are your ideals, principles, standards, or beliefs something that you only talk about, or is it something deeply rooted in every fiber of your being?


I'm not my beliefs, opinions or views. In fact, I change them pretty often. Ideals, principles, standards are meaningless. They don't mean shit. At best, they are the cause of wars, racial tensions and various forms of extremism or simple douchebaggery. Either you are a person of integrity and honor or you aren't. There are no rules to follow or standards to rise to.

As for your question, I do appreciate heroism, especially people who are ready to give their lives for their loved ones. I don't know how I would behave in an extreme situation. Nobody knows that. Everyone would prefer to turn out to be a hero but it's all speculation now. To make some definite claims here would be empty posturing.

 Quote:
Imagine a world without jews, christians, or muslims. We have our differences, but we have a common enemy I believe, unless you are liberal and thus not LHP.


It's a prime example of delusional thinking. There will always be religion even if Judaism, Islam and Christianity die. They will be replaced by other new religions or political ideologies that will become a substitute for a religion. Just like in the Soviet Union, which persecuted Christianity and introduced communism instead and the worship of Stalin.

The change takes time. I think your country has bigger problems than just religion. My country was under occupation for nearly two hundred years with a short break. It was also under the totalitarian regime for 45 years and though communism got milder with time, in the beginning there was the reign of terror. Plenty of people lost their lives or were imprisoned. The transformation was also quite painful. Social and political changes take time, several decades at least.
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#105711 - 03/02/16 08:32 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1185
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Untermensch23
This is not another post where I will shame hypocrites and social rejects for flocking to the darkness and thus tarnishing it's greatness...

Well, that didn't last long.

You realize all your rants about my purportedly posh existence have absolutely jack to do with the points I made? Replying to you, I can almost count down "Ad hominem in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . "

Also, I have more than a couple white friends living in South Africa. The general consensus among them is that, while the place is a crime-ridden shit hole and racial tensions are a major contributing factor, the narrative you're spinning is a hysterical exaggeration.

If the end game is "self satisfaction," why request commentary or opinions from others on a forum? If all you wanted was your own approval, you could have just acted without the need to stand up and scream, "WITNESS ME!" I'm guessing it's because your real end game is notoriety.



Edited by XiaoGui17 (03/02/16 08:33 PM)
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#105715 - 03/03/16 02:38 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
 Originally Posted By: untermensch
The UN recently rejected a Pagan claim to the Parthenon in Greece, they wanted to worship in a temple that was built by Pagans, but is now a tourist attraction of christians. The reason they denied it was that apparently they had great respect for their ancestors too. But if so, then why be a part of the legacy of the destruction of precious art, literature, and culture? If you respect your roots why bow to the religions forced upon you. Mental chains for a spiritual slave.

1) Allowance would be giving in to a continued destruction of the site. It would mean a heightened "stress" and wear on this historical place.
2) "Pagan" from now is not the same as the religious people from back then. It can't be stressed enough those hippies who took up the label in current days have no fucking clue what they're doing. Historical inaccuracies abound.
3) People (unconscious or not) have always been spiritual slaves. The mind likes to chain itself up. It's wired in our biology.


As for the original question...
Nope.


Edited by Dimitri (03/03/16 02:40 AM)
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#105720 - 03/03/16 05:21 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Dimitri]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Would I die for 'ideals'? While such exhibitions of radicalism make for great propaganda fodder, I've lived a pretty coddled life so I can't make that call from experience.

 Quote:
The UN recently rejected a Pagan claim to the Parthenon in Greece, they wanted to worship in a temple that was built by Pagans, but is now a tourist attraction of christians. The reason they denied it was that apparently they had great respect for their ancestors too. But if so, then why be a part of the legacy of the destruction of precious art, literature, and culture? If you respect your roots why bow to the religions forced upon you. Mental chains for a spiritual slave.


Considering the EU is aiding the architectural restoration of the structure and advocating for the return of its pilfered relics, I'd hardly say they are aiding a legacy of destruction.

It probably also deserves mention that the Parthenon itself was never actually a real "temple"--it saw more use as a treasury than a ritual site, and the main image was a repository for gold rather than a functional cult icon--there were no priests or priestesses, and no altar.

Also it begs the question--who "owns" the Parthenon? The people of Athens collectively who have fertilized the roots of the structure with their blood (numbering more Christians, I might add, than polytheists), the Greek government who have authoritative jursdiction over the area, the EU who oversee its preservation and restoration, or a tiny minority who claim to represent the religion of its builders? And if the latter, among the many Hellenic Neo-Pagan organizations that (not unlike Satanism) run the gamut from loose "the gods are just symbols" to hard polytheism--which group gets priority? Would the site just turn into another Stonehenge, doomed to be annually overrun by buffoons in silly hats claiming to be the reincarnation of Gandalf?



Kidding aside, if one wants to take up the task of religious reconstructionism seriously, it seems more sensible to build new temples rather than try to fill the shoes of a 1,500-year old state sanctioned religion.
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#105726 - 03/04/16 11:19 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Uberdouche
I guess my real question is, in a couple of years from now, if you hear about a crazy guy in Greece that did such acts as I have described? Would you worship me? Would I be your messiah? Hahahaha, or would you be a bunch of hippies and condemn violence? I guess it doesn't really matter, but if you beg me I will speed up the process, unfortunately I do not know how to procure guns in Greece, I can however join the boeremag and learn to make suicide-vests. Life seems pointless without the belief in immortality, whether it is cosmic or historical.


Are you for real? I get it, you took a nose dive into your batshit ideals and you want someone else to help you tow the party line. May I suggest creating a Facebook group to gain a following? I doubt you'll find it here.

If you do something of note, I'll be sure to throw my .02 down on it. You can put my shiny little turd on display and feel accomplished.

Would I die for ideals? Who the hell knows, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
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#105729 - 03/04/16 12:17 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
@general reply

If you consider the notion of family an ideal, then yes - absolutely. Take, for instance, my lil bro (who is a beast in his own right) got jumped not too long ago. We're not the types who go running to the police or whatever; instead we spent a good chunk of the day afterward cruising to find these cats - and find them we did. Granted, it was a bunch of 18 year olds, but in all fairness they came in numbers and are old enough to stab someone. Not a damn one of them is feeling so nice today.

Pamilya muna. And yeah, I'd die for that. In fact, it's the only reason I am alive. Blood.
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#105761 - 03/06/16 01:11 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Dimitri]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
You are referring to Wiccan styled peoples, I completely agree with you, however it is an ignorant assumption that all are like that, in fact most are not. That's like me saying that because Christians promote propaganda that satanists ritually sacrifice babies, eat people, and use candles made of baby-fat, then that automatically describes you. Reconstruction of Pagan traditions have been aided by Archaeology and Anthropology, this isn't the dark ages my friend.

You claim that people have been spiritual slaves because you are most likely a laveyan-type Atheist who believes that you were born a god. While I share the ideals of Plato, you most certainly were not born a god, you were simply born with the potential to be one. The fact of the matter is there are naturally souls with less potential, thus it would be nearly impossible for them to achieve such a feat, this would of course be the majority of people. There have always existed different spiritual systems for the elite and the common peoples of the Pagan world.

If you know anything regarding evolutionary biology, you would know that white/European people originate from India, which is part of the reason we are referred to as Indo-European. Some have Persian ancestry, but generally speaking we were Northern Indians who had migrated towards what is now Europe and parts of Russia. Europeans, Indians, and Persians are all the same race (Aryan/Caucasian), the Indians have always known this, because the ruling class studies the Vedas, the Vedas is only studied by the elite of the caste system in India, just as most Pagans sought to worship gods, and the elites sought to become them. So if spiritual slavery is the pursuit of self-deification then I'd love to be a slave.

The point of that particular paragraph was this is a temple built by Pagans, for Pagans, to worship or do ritual now controlled by Christians. If you do not sympathize, then go be nihilistic and depressed in the corner, don't care much for atheists.
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#105762 - 03/06/16 01:17 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
That statement seems a lot like the statement a neo-nazi in disguise would use use to try and convince people he has black friends. Not that I have a problem with that though. Also these white friends of yours from which province do they come? Are they Afrikaans or English? There is a world of difference between coming from a farm, a rural community, or lower class to lower-middle class suburbs surrounded by townships, and coming from gated communities in the Western Cape or Johannesburg. Very uneducated of you, though I would expect a reject to react in such a way. After all you're doing this to feel powerful, because you got picked on in school aren't you? Why don't you go shoot some people like in Columbine? Because they had balls and you're just a pussy that's why, so fuck off and go suck dick someplace else coward.

Self-satisfaction could be complemented if the scale of such an event were to be larger than what could possibly be accomplished by a lone individual, but since in your society it's much more preferable to be normal than exceptional, retracted than outspoken I can understand your aversion to expression.
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#105763 - 03/06/16 01:36 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: The Zebu]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The reason gold was housed, was because common peoples believed in sacrificing their wealth or livestock to the gods in a sign of devotion, and also in hopes that they might gain favour from a god. So it was part of ritual practice. Secondly I agree with your last point, building a new temple would be a far better solution, however has it been done this far? The reason it has not been done yet regardless of geography is because Pagans have refused to take advantage of the modern liberal ideals of Europeans, meaning if for example a thousand pagans or more were to storm the Parthenon and refuse people entry, scuffle with authorities and so on, and then after that more such events occur at other Pagan temples around Europe, the EU would comply, but until then, sitting and doing nothing is not going to accomplish anything.

There were not more Christians during it's construction, you are surely mistaken, or you are part of some Christian agenda that wants to claim that the Inquisition never transpired, and that they (or you) never destroyed ancient wonders of the world in a display of their barbarism. The reason it has to be deemed "neo-paganism" in the first place is due to the Inquisition, because although there might have been survivors who passed on traditions in an oral fashion, they had to integrate or be killed. So judging somebody for being neo-pagan is a rather ignorant thing to do, considering they try to preserve something beautiful that their ancestors were deprived of in the first place.

The point is, ignorant being, that if I should not ban Christians from worshiping in their church, if I should not turn the Vatican into a petting zoo or a sideshow anymore than it already is, then they should not do that to places of worship related to my religion. You can judge the people in pointy hats as much as you like, but at least unlike yourself they have the courage to own up to what they believe in, to not hide behind a skirt, to stand up for what they believe. If that is not a quality you consider admirable, then we clearly do not share the same perspective. Maybe you value pretentiousness, cowardice, and submission, thus we are clearly not of the same cloth.


Edited by Ubermensch23 (03/06/16 01:38 PM)
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#105764 - 03/06/16 01:39 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: SIN3]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Deleted, by Asmedious.

Edited by Asmedious (03/06/16 02:55 PM)
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#105765 - 03/06/16 01:40 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Truest reply, good fortune to the wise man.
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#105768 - 03/06/16 06:46 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
The point is, ignorant being, that if I should not ban Christians from worshiping in their church, if I should not turn the Vatican into a petting zoo or a sideshow anymore than it already is, then they should not do that to places of worship related to my religion. You can judge the people in pointy hats as much as you like, but at least unlike yourself they have the courage to own up to what they believe in, to not hide behind a skirt, to stand up for what they believe. If that is not a quality you consider admirable, then we clearly do not share the same perspective. Maybe you value pretentiousness, cowardice, and submission, thus we are clearly not of the same cloth.


Seriously dude, if you ever decide to pull the trigger and blow yourself up at the foot of Acropolis, I will laugh my ass off. I only hope the 600 Club won't be blamed by the tabloid newspapers for your ultimate mindfuck.

The only ideal worth dying for are your loved ones; the members of your family or/and close friends, people you care about. Loyalty and duty to your beloved - these are the things that are truly admirable, not the devotion to some abstract and lifeless ideas or beliefs that change in time.

If you think that Satanism is all about fighting the "common enemy", then you're basically clueless. No wonder that hardly anyone takes you seriously. Your patronizing attitude won't help you a bit. You have also a problem with acknowledging the reality. Humanity doesn't owe you a shit, history is written by the victorious.

Do you have any sources to prove that there is some continuity between ancient and modern paganism? Oral tradition, are you for real? Any kid can read about ancient religions in books or online and claim the ancient heritage.
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#105771 - 03/06/16 09:26 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
There were not more Christians during it's construction, you are surely mistaken, or you are part of some Christian agenda that wants to claim that the Inquisition never transpired, and that they (or you) never destroyed ancient wonders of the world in a display of their barbarism.


What I basically mean is that since the its construction, Greece has seen more Christians than Pagans in its population--it's a simple matter of demographics. Moreover, the Inquisition (Roman Catholic, not Greek Orthodox) never had power in Greece, and dealt with heretical Christians, not pagans.

I do agree that the de-paganization of the West (which took place several centuries before) was often atrocious, but we should not whitewash the past either. Even the polytheists had their own "inquisitions" that persecuted philosophers and prophets (there's this guy named Socrates, right?), unusual cults, practitioners of witchcraft (goeteia) and other religious groups seen as seditious or against the moral fabric of the state. It numbers among many other bloody and unjust conflicts amidst the ancient world--political hardball sucks.

This, in conjunction with what I stated earlier, it seems unwise to marry Hellenism to the "Greek national establishment" if Hellenism is going to make any ground in the modern world. (The Golden Dawn gave it a shot but but ended up selling out to the Orthodox... Christianity is very much entwined with the ethnic identity of the Greeks, and the organic nature of religion means this probably will not change for a long time. Culturally speaking, the Parthenon represents it just as well as St. Andrew's of Petras)

 Quote:
Secondly I agree with your last point, building a new temple would be a far better solution, however has it been done this far?




Yes, a few groups have acquired the means. Some have even resumed "divinely-sanctioned" priesthoods, but it seems far more common to adhere to a modified domestic praxis that faithful laypeople would have done... for instance, making small household shrines, &c. Hellenic religion has been practiced in different forms over the years by different layers of society, so revivalist groups can work with what they've got and still retain historical "street cred", as it were, without having to bicker over who the Gods "really" chose to be an Oracle of Apollo, or slaughter hundreds of cows for Athena every annual Panathenaia.

 Quote:
The reason it has not been done yet regardless of geography is because Pagans have refused to take advantage of the modern liberal ideals of Europeans, meaning if for example a thousand pagans or more were to storm the Parthenon and refuse people entry, scuffle with authorities and so on, and then after that more such events occur at other Pagan temples around Europe, the EU would comply, but until then, sitting and doing nothing is not going to accomplish anything.


This makes me think of some recent events in America. Simply put, I don't think it would go well, flaccid Euroliberalism aside.

Besides, these structures were grand, expensive relics of a time when the Gods had Emperors and Kings at their back and received millions of worshipers--today, they simply don't have the numbers, money or cultural influence to reclaim/renovate crumbling archaeological sites into functional and dignified temples, especially by force. Their resources would see much better use continuing to build new spaces that fit the needs and means of their communities. Restoring part or all of the Acropolis as a sanctuary would be great, but at this point it would be the cart leading the carriage.


Edited by The Zebu (03/06/16 10:26 PM)
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#105778 - 03/07/16 05:47 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: The Zebu]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Even the polytheists had their own "inquisitions" that persecuted philosophers and prophets (there's this guy named Socrates, right?), unusual cults, practitioners of witchcraft (goeteia) and other religious groups seen as seditious or against the moral fabric of the state.


I think that in the case of Socrates his supposed Atheism was merely an excuse. The real reason he was put to death was that the dude pissed off too many respectable and influential Athenians, including politicians, artists and the members of nobility, by questioning them and revealing their ignorance and pretensions to wisdom, all of that to the general amusement of his young disciples. That earned him a hell of enemies. Nobody likes being called out on their bullshit, especially people who think of themselves and are regarded by others as authority figures and moral examples. Even before the court, instead of falling on his knees and begging for mercy and forgiveness, he stood bold and erect, occasionally mocking the "respectable" jury, if we are to believe Plato's testimony.

Another thing was that he was considered a threat to the Athenian democracy as one of his disciples became a tyrant. He was accused of having antidemocratic views. All in all, it was more of a political trial than a religious one.

It wasn't that different with the first Christians in Rome. They were persecuted not so much for worshiping Jesus as for not acknowledging the divinity of Caesar.

The OP just cannot really grasp the simple truth that the religion has always been strictly connected to the politics, be it modern religion like Christianity or Islam or ancient pagan religions. The religion sanctions the power of the state, its aim is to ensure the cohesiveness of the society and to uphold the status quo. Abolishing of one system only leads to the creation of another system.


Edited by Czereda (03/07/16 05:50 PM)
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#105785 - 03/08/16 11:33 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CM
I am in the US, so the opportunity has yet to present itself.


I think you're looking at this all wrong. There's plenty of situations that could draw that line in the sand, even here in the U.S.

Family was mentioned as an example of an ideal. Plenty of people sacrifice self in the name of family values. Plenty make lifestyle choices that put their lives/freedom at risk, every day and for their families.

People with children will especially put an ideal before self. "Save the child..." etc. This 'ideal' that children are the most holy and sacred, is one that plenty would die in the name of.

Thing is, if there's no parent around, how much better is that kid? The counter to that is that *someone* will raise it to an adult. Yeah, and maybe they raise them to be just another asshat among the masses. *golf clap*
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#105789 - 03/08/16 01:41 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
Good point.

Especially if that protective (empathetic) instinct is tapped when threat towards the "holy and sacred" child comes into play. Like people willing to go to death row for bombing an abortion clinic..

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#105791 - 03/08/16 02:15 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
Sure and other examples.

* The difference between selling hot product on the black market vs. working for minimum wage to support your family.

* Joining the Military to 'fight' for your freedom and defend democracy.

* Taking a job in the Peace Corps, or some other humanitarian effort that puts you in direct risk, in a foreign nation.

* Taking a job as a cop, because enforcing the law is damn patriotic!

heh, you get the idea
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#105794 - 03/08/16 02:49 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1185
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Untermensch23
There is a world of difference between coming from a farm, a rural community, or lower class to lower-middle class suburbs surrounded by townships, and coming from gated communities in the Western Cape or Johannesburg.

Indeed there is, which is why is ironic that you're puffing your chest about how hard you have it in Pretoria, which is a wealthier area with a lower rate of murder than the global average. What Pretoria does have (both stats and anecdotes back this up) is a lot of property crime. That sucks, but it's nothing like the "white genocide" you're asserting.

 Originally Posted By: Untermensch23
Self-satisfaction could be complemented if the scale of such an event were to be larger than what could possibly be accomplished by a lone individual...

Then see what I said above about "the drab, tedious, unsung work that actual victory requires." Sometimes it's harder to live for your ideals than to die for them.
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#105797 - 03/08/16 06:23 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Joining the Military to 'fight' for your freedom and defend democracy.


Or to earn money. I'm not sure how it is in the US but the Polish soldiers who volunteered to participate in the mission in Afghanistan earned nearly four times as much as what they got here. And even in Poland soldiers earn much more than the majority of people and have some retirement and health-care privileges. The cops earn a little bit less but compared to average incomes in my country, it's still a decent amount of money. Additionally, there come retirement privileges; they can retire earlier and still have higher pensions than the rest. The work in the police offers something that private corporations and businesses don't - stability. It's one of those jobs that you just do for the whole of your life and nobody can fire you unless you do something outrageous, like coming totally shit-faced to work.

Another example you gave, selling something on the black market, may as well be for profit, not for the idea. Or take climbers for example. They realize their passion and know they risk death but they don't really seek death. I mean they usually take necessary safety measures.

The OP is talking about sacrificing his life for his principles, deliberately choosing death over renouncing his beliefs. At least, this is how I understood this.

 Quote:
People with children will especially put an ideal before self. "Save the child..." etc. This 'ideal' that children are the most holy and sacred, is one that plenty would die in the name of.


It's not an ideal. It's something tangible - your own blood, your progeny. Are you sure it's something taught? It could be an instinct to save your own genes.
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#105800 - 03/09/16 04:37 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
 Quote:
Joining the Military to 'fight' for your freedom and defend democracy.


... They also pay for college and help with a mortgage. Just don't say that to the CO.

 Quote:
Taking a job in the Peace Corps, or some other humanitarian effort that puts you in direct risk, in a foreign nation.


Hu-ma-ni-ta-ri-an? You mean like Bono? For the starving children?

 Quote:
Taking a job as a cop, because enforcing the law is damn patriotic!


Sure at first, then the people you 'protect' would rather throw rocks at you and it kills the idealism.

 Quote:
The difference between selling hot product on the black market vs. working for minimum wage to support your family.


You can always put 40% aside for court costs and legal fees..

But yeah, I do get the idea..

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#105803 - 03/09/16 04:07 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1185
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
[quote=CanisMachina42]
 Quote:
Joining the Military to 'fight' for your freedom and defend democracy.

... They also pay for college and help with a mortgage. Just don't say that to the CO.

True of everything.

"So, why do you want to work here?"

You say: "Well, I'm really passionate about blah blah blah and I'd be making a real difference and getting the opportunity to hone my skills..."

Truth: "I like paying rent and dream of the days when I'll be able to afford yogurt again."


Edited by XiaoGui17 (03/09/16 04:08 PM)
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#106067 - 04/01/16 12:23 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
Greyson Black Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/26/15
Posts: 90
I would die for my religion and my political ideology, to answer your question. Then, although I believe I know myself well enough to say this, does anyone really know what they would do until the circumstance present themselves? Still, I do sincerely believe I would.
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#106068 - 04/01/16 02:07 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Ubermensch23]
LordBlyat Offline
member


Registered: 03/21/15
Posts: 118
I would...

I'm already dead.

I sold my soul to the devil.

And all I got was some profile at some satanic forum on the internet.

And I'm stuck with a bunch of mundane pseudo-intellectuals who spend years in the forum talking a whole lot about nothing.

Sometimes I wonder if it was all worth it. These satanic ideals... to sell my soul, for THIS...

If I'm not dead, kill me already.

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#106071 - 04/01/16 03:53 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: LordBlyat]
Enantiodromia Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/16/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Germanistan
Just when I thought I knew enough about the Jews .....
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#106072 - 04/01/16 04:16 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: LordBlyat]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
\:\( awww, dude! you're at least likeable, LB. Highly amusing.

As for dying for idea(l)s - at a certain point everyone will eventually have to handle this somehow or another. The real issue is, though, that it's not supposed to be something "sought-after" or whatever - that's a trap, and an obvious one. There are no satanic ideals, only satanic___ umm___ (for lack of a better word) dispositions. Or maybe the people that swear by that, and to the contrary, have nothing to live for, anyway. It's a lot of "would"/"could"/"should"/"thou shalt".

It all sounds good on paper, but damn! Putting what you have done to pen is highly incriminating. For the record, I wouldn't hurt a flea. All lives matter. Etc.

As for the soul part, and the selling thereof, I'm not convinced that they are intrinsic. Souls are earned, and rather painfully, at that.

In more positive news, we're already dead \:\) There's nothing to fear or "get-over-with". I promise.

Whether or not we are alive, is the real question that, sooner or later, everyone will have to confront.

As for psuedo-intellectuals... I can assure you that I am definitely not the brightest bulb in the box (except when it comes to very specific subject-areas), but as it stands right now I'm currently (and seriously) reconsidering the notion that "intellectuals" even exist. On the one hand, I wouldn't know about them unless they spent their time writing, and on the other hand it gets recursively absurd to analyze that, rather than putting their intelligence to use, they instead prefer to write. Plus! Who in their right-mind would publish their personal trade-secrets?

I basically chock-it-up to recreation/personal amusement and killing-time until the inevitable end that awaits all.
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#106074 - 04/01/16 08:17 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: antikarmatomic]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
As for psuedo-intellectuals...


Damn, Ms LordBlyat is right. We are pseudo-intellectuals. We waste our time on this stupid forum discussing and debating all things Satanic and it does shit to push Satanism further. Fuck it, it's pointless. It's high time we got down to work and for once did something useful and really diabolical. I have an excellent idea.

You and me. We will set up a fake O9A website but it must look like a genuine one, preferably with Wordpress software so that the idiots won't notice something is off, and we will be encouraging people to commit suicide. Of course, we must be convincing enough. We will write something to the effect of:

Those pseudo-Satanic posers don't have the guts to commit suicide. The man of truly Satanic character will not hesitate to blow his brains out to prove to his kindred he's sinister enough.

This is a Test. Push your limits and pull the trigger. If you fail, you will prove yourself a Mundane.

Kill yourself or you're a pleb.

Something like this. We must work on the style to make it similar to the style of those O9A Wordpressers. The most important thing is to convince the idiots that they just HAVE TO kill themselves to prove they are worthy enough for the O9A, that they are the elite.

I'm good at creative writing (even DD has admitted this) and you're a tech guy. Together we will manage to accomplish this vile sinister deed.

We will end up sitting on a huge pile of dead bodies and it will be awesome!

I'm so enthusiastic AK! Let's do it now!!!


Edited by Czereda (04/01/16 08:25 AM)
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#106075 - 04/01/16 08:51 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Czereda]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
So is this O9A meets TOBL?

Even though I'm being deliberately kept out of The No Homers Club (and I'm totally jealous), I am still compelled to ask, When one offs themselves do they get posthumously recognized as a true satanist? What about their leftovers?

Why stop at just a mountain of skulls and dead bodies? Make a little money off harvested organs, but be sure you have them kill themselves in a way that doesn't damage the money makers. Eyes, kidneys, heart, and lungs are the big 4.

Just be careful with wording. The Church of Euthanasia holds the rights to "Save the world, kill yourself", don't think it will be an issue though.

Anyway, I put my full support behind whatever the fuck it is you people are doing.

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#106076 - 04/01/16 08:54 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Czereda]
Enantiodromia Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/16/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Germanistan
I agree with you Anna. Though you lack the diabolical desire and that what it's all about. You can't just pretend, it's something you have to feel, to live, to BE. If niggas not feeling the wordless essence, you're screwed!

Also, it's real difficult to compete with the ToB trippy boys, they scrach the skin off their whole arm and post it with a full bled copy of 333 on fagbook. Do you possess their Pathei Mathos???

There's a lot of points to consider, remember - it's a lunatic fringe!

This aggression will not stand, man! This aggression against the sinister current ....


Edited by Enantiodromia (04/01/16 09:10 AM)
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#106081 - 04/01/16 11:53 AM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Originally Posted By: CZ
I'm so enthusiastic AK! Let's do it now!!!
I am highly aroused by your wording - so much so that I don't even remember what your original plan was. Subsequently, whatever it is, you've got my full backing.
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#106086 - 04/01/16 06:09 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: CanisMachina42]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: Canis
Why stop at just a mountain of skulls and dead bodies? Make a little money off harvested organs, but be sure you have them kill themselves in a way that doesn't damage the money makers. Eyes, kidneys, heart, and lungs are the big 4.


Oh Canis but that's a brilliant idea. I think we will initiate you into our shenanigans and we will share the profit equally. What say you?

 Quote:
I am still compelled to ask, When one offs themselves do they get posthumously recognized as a true satanist?


Yes, we will honor them on our website as the true Satanic Warriors and show them as a worthy example with the hope more will follow. It's all for the show though. Meanwhile, we'll be counting the money. \:\)

 Originally Posted By: Enantiodromia
they scrach the skin off their whole arm


Yeah and we want to push people further: make them kill themselves for the Cause.

 Quote:
This aggression will not stand, man! This aggression against the sinister current ....


No no... just no. You don't understand. We just wanna clean the park; take out the doggy poop.

 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
I am highly aroused by your wording


Oh dear I'd better hurry up. Just wait kaibigan ko, wait!


Edited by Czereda (04/01/16 06:12 PM)
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Anna Czereda
O9A Meme Cat

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#106574 - 05/01/16 03:12 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: antikarmatomic]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 280
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
There are no satanic ideals, only satanic___ umm___ (for lack of a better word) dispositions.


I think that is a very foolish statement. Satanic ideals are concerned with individual liberty and cultivating one's person utilizing logic with an eye on rational self-interest. Satanism is a amalgam and distillation of many world ideologies from Objectivism, the ideas of the (Western) Enlightenment to Confucianism but it does without a doubt encompass ideology, and that ideology is one of the most ideal-focused movements on the planet. It is exclusionary in nature due to this intense focus on ideals. In my opinion the pursuit of perfection has been the eternal flame of both Satanism and proto-Satanism.

There could be such a thing as Satanic dispositions and I am inclined to believe there might be, however it could never carry a movement as Satanic ideals have.

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#106590 - 05/01/16 10:56 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: 97and107]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2086
Loc: Texas
No. It's a symptom of an inflexible mind.

It's also a symptom of lack of self preservation.
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#106606 - 05/03/16 02:20 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: Fnord]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
It can be, it depends on how much value you put on your offspring. Some may self-sacrifice to save their own children, while others would most-likely allow them to die.

Still, I wouldn't even put a lot of stock in that idea because you just never know what you're really going to do until the moment presents itself. You can say to yourself: "Self-preservation is the highest law!" Then get killed while trying to save one your children.
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#112341 - 04/14/17 06:46 PM Re: Is there anybody here who would die for ideals [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 141
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Actually XiaoGui17, Pretoria isn't a wealthy area compared to Capetown, Johannesburg, or Kwazulu Natal. The low crime rates coincide with a larger Afrikaans population compared to any large city in South Africa, which results in more neighbourhood security and violence towards criminals. English-speaking areas are more exposed to violence because they are liberals, and as such do not mobilize or physically defend themselves, obviously there are exceptions.

https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/126047/south-africas-top-24-richest-towns-and-suburbs/

Now please tell me how many of these are in Pretoria? I'll tell you what is in Pretoria though, the Voortrekker Monument and a sizable Afrikaans community. Please stop telling me what my country is like, or reading government propaganda, the ANC are socialists/communists after all. Are you going to imply that there is no murder in paradise, as proposed by the Soviet Union at a stage too?

If South Africa is so great, why don't you immigrate here? After all it's your intervention into our country that got us here in the first place, and all for the sake of some cheaper minerals. I have nothing against you personally, however just as you supported our terrorists, I will support your terrorists. Bin Laden was a hero.
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