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#106495 - 04/27/16 08:21 PM what brought you to satanism?
theguybb Offline
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What brought me to Satanism is a video online explained Satanism in a rather fair light and this info had me doing homework of my own.

After a week of looking of at satanic websites and asking satanists about what it was about i came to the realization that Satanism's rules and values matched me rather well. After further information provided/recommended to me on here led me to the left hand path.

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#106496 - 04/28/16 01:56 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
LordBlyat Offline
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What brought me to Satanism... hmm... that would take pages and pages to tell. Basically sex and drugs.

Drugs are good for you. I would encourage any satanist who wants to learn the secrets of satan to do drugs, such as crack, meth, heroin. I have so many friends who do dope. It's cool. I have friends who shoot up meth and stay up for days!

Lucifer is satan Enlightened. And so to transform from a satanist into a Luciferian, you have to light up your mind with drugs! Crowley did hella drugs, and look at how he turned out!


Edited by LordBlyat (04/28/16 01:58 AM)

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#106499 - 04/28/16 08:18 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
what brought you to satanism?


Alcoholics Anonymous.

I'm not trolling you. I used a "meth addiction" and a 200/month residential rehab so I wouldn't have to live in/lose my car. After 3 months of 12 step BS and required meetings I thought, "What is the furthest thing from this?"

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#106500 - 04/28/16 08:38 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
antikarmatomic Offline
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It's complicated, really. Originally it was my sincere and utmost contempt of cats. Everything I learned about Satanism from Sallie Jesse plainly indicated to me that some of their practices were something I could totally get behind.

Some years later I read the Satanic Bible. Imagine the egg on my face when I was informed that Satanists don't actually do___ well___ ya know that . This was kind of a let-down, but I had already adopted the title and the book did make some sense, so I let the two ideologies cross-pollinate and have since toned-it-down a bit by resigning myself to merely throwing eggs at cats, and giving kittens the middle finger (don't let them fool you, they know *exactly* what it means)
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#106503 - 04/28/16 10:07 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: LordBlyat]
Ateosoth Offline
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 Quote:
What brought me to satanism... hmm... that would take pages and pages to tell. Basically sex and drugs.


"it was uncool for cool person to be seen near or inside the library" - you were such a typical example of american sheeple. I'm not sure how much you progressed since then. I would say that you are still driven by what is uncool and cool in eyes of mundane. Like you confirmed it in your next sentence. All the same, the fact that sex and drugs brought you to Satanism is very disappointing and defeating. Why would anyone need Satan to be self-indulgent mundane?

 Quote:
Drugs are good for you. I would encourage any satanist who wants to learn the secrets of satan to do drugs, such as crack, meth, heroin. I have so many friends who do dope. It's cool. I have friends who shoot up meth and stay up for days!


Drugs are bad for you. especially such drugsa as cocaine and heroin and their derivatives. you learn nothing, you only become crippled on many levels. what is the price paied for staying up for days by using meth? What is the price of being "cool" - unrepairable damage to your body, soul and mind.

 Quote:
Lucifer is satan Enlightened. And so to transform from a satanist into a Luciferian, you have to light up your mind with drugs! Crowley did hella drugs, and look at how he turned out!


what he turned out - he turned out to be misarble and delusional junkie - a pumped up klifot. And this is all drugs can bring you - delusions. Enlightenment? no experience under the drugs is equal to real mystical experience. I know such junkies. they would lick shit off of my balls just for a quater of some good stuff. Crowley would do the same. He would crawl like a dog if he knew what I have in stash. And I'm supposed to respect him as some enlightened luciferian? if there was no cultural "revolution" during 60' there would be no junkie debaucherous thelemites who crowley can appeal to. How a junkie can be satanist, luciferian, yet enlightened? Junkie has no will, has no pride, has no self-respect, and surely their emotions and intellectual faculties are ruined. Beyoned this their magnetic fields of the body, those subtle realities are crippled. How junkie, crippled as they are, can achieve any form of greatness, any form of true mystical insight, any enlightenment? how they can achieve anything at all even in mundane life?

 Quote:
Thus, there is a beauty in the Dark Arts and an exultation of Life, and certainly not a wallowing in the symbols, symbolism and accouterments of death and decay. Thus, there is a natural joy, which can be and often is both light and dark but which is always controlled. Not for the Gentleman, or the Lady, the loss of mastery, the stupefaction that arises from over-indulgence (which over-indulgence can and which does include personal emotion).


drugs can bring you only loss of mastery and this stupefaction. nothing else. Being that you draw much of your inspiration from ONA can you tell me how crippled junkie can develop their latent faculties of empathy? how crippled junkie can have needed intellectual, emotional and physical faculties to follow the Way? not to mention how crippled junkie can live by the Code when they would sell their own mother for a quater of very bad dope.

At least we all know now how you are able to produce tons of written delusional crap - doping.


Edited by Ateosoth (04/28/16 10:09 AM)
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#106504 - 04/28/16 10:43 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Ateosoth]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Seemed pretty tongue-in-cheek to me. Even so, I seriously dunno where you peeps come up with this whole "Satan is a good-guy" paradigm. It's as if the logic was "pentagrams are spooky-cool, but bad things are bad, so let's just redefine the terms 'adversary' and 'open enemy' of man entirely". It's silly.

And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "God has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution."

So, yeah, I'd say drugs and all sorts of toxoplasmoticly self-annihilating behaviors are quite in keeping with ol' scratch - at least more so than "enlightenment", "compassion", "empathy", and "mystical insight". It may not give many people the warm-and-fuzzies, but it is at least consistent. One's demons are demons none-the-less, and it is important to know one's enemies. This cannot be done by sweeping their iniquities under the carpet, nor by mistaking their intent for what it is and always was: the ruin of man.

Any good that can be made of dancing with the devil falls squarely on the shoulders of those who chose to do so.
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#106505 - 04/28/16 11:13 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Ateosoth Offline
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@antikarmatomic you have no clue what I'm talking about. she started to talk about drugs in relation to Lucifer and Enlightenment. I'm just telling this is completely false. if it was tounge in cheek, if it was just culling "advice" for satanist I can respect that. But if she was honest I'm disappointed.

Dark Gods of O9A Tradition are not the same as demons, klifots and shells of Kaballah. One can make themselves open to those low enteties by being drug or sex addict. but one can never meet with Dark Majesties except through self-discipline and exellence - cannot have real mystical experience except in this way. and this has nothing to do with "Satan is a good-guy" paradigm. those are limited causal perceptions related to good and evil. I'm also talking about something beyond paths. beyond LHP and RHP- there is no true achievement beyond self-exellence.and there is no self-exellence if you are crippled junkie.
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#106506 - 04/28/16 11:26 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Ateosoth]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
Dark Gods of O9A Tradition are not the same as demons, klifots and shells of Kaballah.
Yeah, but who the fuck said anything about the ONA? I get it: if your only tool is hammer (or in, this case, ONA-branding), everything becomes a nail, but the OP is "what brought you to Satanism?" not the ONA.
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#106507 - 04/28/16 11:43 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Ateosoth]
Aredoin Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Ateosoth
At least we all know now how you are able to produce tons of written delusional crap - doping.


What's delusional is to believe that this game can be played ad infinitum.
What's delusional is to believe that those absurd references to indulgence and to the enlightening use of drugs are not but an impish and juvenile expression of that charm which is, or should be, inherent to those cognoscenti of the dark arts.

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#106508 - 04/28/16 11:55 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Ateosoth Offline
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 Quote:
Yeah, but who the fuck said anything about the ONA?


let us not pretened that we don't know who the LordBlyat is. she is influenced greatly by ONA. what she talks here stands against everything ONA.

 Quote:
OP is "what brought you to satanism?" not the ONA.


ONA Satanism was the only thing that made any sense of Satanism as such for me. so, to fill the topic - ONA was the thing that brought me to Satanism.
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#106510 - 04/28/16 12:47 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Ateosoth]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
let us not pretened that we don't know who the LordBlyat is. she is influenced greatly by ONA. what she talks here stands against everything ONA.
Yeah, and it's probably against all things Buddhist, too – what's your point? Not everyone's tool-box has only one tool in it.

 Quote:
ONA was the thing that brought me to Satanism.
That's interesting. I always got the impression that it's usually Satanism that leads peeps to the ONA. Even so, as with LaVeyan Satanism, the ol' “sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken” adage applies. How on Earth “Dark Gods” can be confused with “Light-bearing Djinn” baffles the ever-loving shit out of me as much as the whole “Satanism starts with Atheism” mode of thinking does. They are both, in a phrase: shoe-horned – and rather poorly, at that.
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#106511 - 04/28/16 01:04 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: CanisMachina42]
theguybb Offline
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Sorry that happened to you, I know a few people who went through a similar program and they tell me it's SOME tips to help you kick the addiction. BUT the rest is pure religious bullshit and them trying to convert you and i believe it.
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#106512 - 04/28/16 01:17 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
theguybb Offline
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Hahaha i'm a dog person myself. I don't really hate cats but they piss me off sometimes when they don't shut up and they climb up on my leg scratching my leg. (fuck)

As for the Satanism like i said i found more information about it and realized it wasn't what i have been told and had quite good rules and values. Things i ether already did or things i could stand by. I don't own the Satanic Bible but i know where to find the PDF and if throwing eggs at cats makes you happy throw away \:\)

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#106522 - 04/29/16 10:43 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
Dan_Dread Offline
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I took the skytrain. It was only 3 stops from my house to Satanism.
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#106523 - 04/29/16 10:59 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
LordBlyat Offline
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Registered: 03/21/15
Posts: 118
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I took the skytrain. It was only 3 stops from my house to Satanism.


lol... You know, seeing the current state and condition of this place, and the mentality of these satanists here, what the 600 Club and Satanism needs now are Testimonials!

Like how the Mormons do it at their wards. Mormons satanists can get up or make a post about how Mormonism and Joseph Smith LaVey/Myatt/Aquino has changed their life.

You can take a mundane/nomian out of a religion, but you can't take the Religiosity out of a mundane/nomian.

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#106527 - 04/29/16 01:21 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
Seemed pretty tongue-in-cheek to me. Even so, I seriously dunno where you peeps come up with this whole "Satan is a good-guy" paradigm. It's as if the logic was "pentagrams are spooky-cool, but bad things are bad, so let's just redefine the terms 'adversary' and 'open enemy' of man entirely". It's silly.

And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "God has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution."

So, yeah, I'd say drugs and all sorts of toxoplasmoticly self-annihilating behaviors are quite in keeping with ol' scratch - at least more so than "enlightenment", "compassion", "empathy", and "mystical insight". It may not give many people the warm-and-fuzzies, but it is at least consistent. One's demons are demons none-the-less, and it is important to know one's enemies. This cannot be done by sweeping their iniquities under the carpet, nor by mistaking their intent for what it is and always was: the ruin of man.

Any good that can be made of dancing with the devil falls squarely on the shoulders of those who chose to do so.


I had to look 3 times to see who wrote that. Give this man a cigar, he gets it.(and in less than 57,544 words, too! ;\) )

There are way too many of these faggots around trying to give the devil a pretty pink paint job if you ask me.
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#106528 - 04/29/16 01:26 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: AK
One's demons are demons none-the-less, and it is important to know one's enemies. This cannot be done by sweeping their iniquities under the carpet, nor by mistaking their intent for what it is and always was: the ruin of man.


Tie in: Betterment?

Satan as a self-help guru, just doesn't do it for me.
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#106530 - 04/29/16 01:55 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Obviously, there are many ideas about what Satanism means, and different people have various reasoning as to what brought them to whatever practices and philosophies that they label Satanic.

I picked up The Devil's Notebook by Anton LaVey. His ideas are only some of what seem to be many 'Satanic' philosophies.

Since then Satanism has kept my interest, though I have yet to conclude an ultimatum.

@Dread

I recently went to a rock concert, and this 'satanic' couple kept showing off their pendants, talking about how humanitarian Satanism is, and about their meetings and how Satanism is an 'open and equality minded philosophy.'

I thought humanitarians were people who sacrificed their own comfort to help the sick and poor, who live in strife to help others in worse circumstances.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (04/29/16 02:21 PM)
Edit Reason: cut cut
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#106531 - 04/29/16 02:05 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: S3
Satan as a self-help guru, just doesn't do it for me.
Me neither. The dose makes the poison, but make no mistake about it: it's still poison, not apple juice. That we derive anti-venom from snake venom should not lead one to conclude that serpents have some sort of "soft-spot" in their hearts for the sons of Adam (although, those who go about things with that sorta thinking in mind make for some neat train-wrecks to watch)
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#106534 - 04/29/16 06:48 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: DD
Give this man a cigar, he gets it.(and in less than 57,544 words, too! ;\) )

There are way too many of these faggots around trying to give the devil a pretty pink paint job if you ask me.


Two cigars at that! Two blunts... to the face... are required to even "hope" to be 1/2 as cool as these guys *sigh*

But I can dream can't I?
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#106565 - 05/01/16 12:00 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Dan_Dread Offline
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That video gave me cancer.

"Well, errr, uhh, I'm a Satanist because I, like, do what I want"

/headbullet
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#106566 - 05/01/16 12:28 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: LordBlyat]
Fnord Offline
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General reply:

I was always right here.

Just took me a bit of time to find the label that most fits.

The animal exists before the classification can be applied.
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#106568 - 05/01/16 12:40 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
The Zebu Offline
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I remember that video from a while ago. It struck me as simply a more verbose and over-articulated echo of a certain line from Satanis: The Devil's Mass (1970)--

 Quote:
"Yeah, before I joined the Satanic Church I masturbated once a day and was very unhappy about it. Now I masturbate three or four times a day and really dig it."


That said, propping up Satan as a model of virtue--esoteric, Epicurean, or otherwise--always ends up looking a little funny.

As for me, I began identifying as a "Satanist" once I decided for myself that Satan is simply the best name for the God of this amoral cosmos. That brings me close to Gnosticism, but I never could quite comfort myself with the delusion that above him there is some "Good Guy God" promising the refuge of salvation and moral certainty.


Edited by The Zebu (05/01/16 12:52 PM)
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#106569 - 05/01/16 01:12 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:

One's demons are demons none-the-less, and it is important to know one's enemies. This cannot be done by sweeping their iniquities under the carpet, nor by mistaking their intent for what it is and always was: the ruin of man.


Agree, disagree, and not enough info.

It is my opinion "Demons" are put there by the very dualities that suggest their existence, and usually born of "sweeping it under the carpet", as you mentioned.

What gets me is the concept that "demons" are proof of this dualities existence as innate.

Case and Point:

 Originally Posted By: me
The snake oil televangelist that plays on peoples ignorance of psychology. He takes a man who has repressed his sexual orientation for decades,  calls upon that filthy ‘gay demon’, then when confronted with the inevitable anger says, “That’s  the devil talking”.  The good preacher commands the filth from him, and the repressed man can now live a sanctified life, marry a fat chick, and never has sex with her.


This oblivious to the fact that what shamed him into that internal split (demon) were the very fucking "values" playing savior.

It's self perpetuating and put there by us. There is only one way of nature and the universe, and it doesn't even need superstition to explain. I'd say embracing "the way of nature" (read as evil), stripped of its duality, would make someone more apt to survive in an adversarial climate, and less prone to susceptibility to demons.

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#106595 - 05/02/16 10:53 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CM
It is my opinion "Demons" are put there by the very dualities that suggest their existence, and usually born of "sweeping it under the carpet", as you mentioned.
It's a valid way of looking at it, though if not born of sweeping it under the carpet, then certainly made to fester and eventually foment by doing so.

This is not to suggest that bringing such things out from under the carpet and into the light is in any way to be taken as a practice in self-transformation, healing, and/or doing battle with / exorcising said demons. They are, in a sense, the lysosome (aka the suicide sack – also responsible for dissolving waste) – intrinsic, and inextricable. The death instinct. The parts of the psyche that tend not toward what one knows full-well to be good (in the purely subjective sense of the word) for them. Bugs in the wiring. Tendencies which can range from moderate to bat-shit-crazy, but are none-the-less parts of the whole to be understood, explored, exploited, and “bound” to serve – with the understanding that they are to be taken exactly for what they are - as they are - in all their hideousness and voracity – regularly fed and exercised, lest they bite the hand and throat that feeds them.

 Originally Posted By: DD
"Well, errr, uhh, I'm a Satanist because I, like, do what I want"
heh, I have to wonder how much “celebrating man's carnal nature” they end up doing all by their lonesome – and, more importantly, do they use their right hand or left and for that?

 Originally Posted By: TZ
That brings me close to Gnosticism, but I never could quite comfort myself with the delusion that above him there is some "Good Guy God" promising the refuge of salvation and moral certainty.
For the most part my tendencies veer towards gnosticism – or some sort of existential gnosticism, with the caveat that “there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so”. Painting it “good” while discarding the “bad” seems rather bias – putting one already off-on-the-wrong foot in terms of gnosis. Whether or not gnosis is reflective of some attainment of some objective experience, or just mind-fuckery is irrelevant to me, since, after all, all experience takes place in the mind anyhow.

“There was a faith healer of Deal
Who said 'though I know pain's not real,
If I sit on a pin,
And it punctures my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel.”
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#106601 - 05/03/16 10:21 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
The parts of the psyche that tend not toward what one knows full-well to be good (in the purely subjective sense of the word) for them. Bugs in the wiring.

True, but the only connection to Satanism is the adversity it causes in one's life, and even then it's a matter of subjectivity. Sabotage knows no ideological affiliation.

Calling these glitches in the psyche "Satan" is valid, but also interchangeable with calling it "daddy issues", or "PTSD". As the result is a product of adversity, all future behavior ties back to the original cause.

The fun part here is, this could just as easily be associated with the other side in the form of "tests of faith." Same effect, subjective cause.

 Quote:
They are, in a sense, the lysosome (aka the suicide sack – also responsible for dissolving waste) – intrinsic, and inextricable. The death instinct.


Why not the life instinct? Why not consider it like a "heat treat" and "quench".

Example: Abused children are far less likely to trust ANYONE, this is not necessarily a bad thing. It's the life instinct. Sure "the bug" is born of childhood adversity, but that cause can give the abused a higher standard more attuned to deception, promote stronger relationships, and be more resistant to the predation that feeds on trust.


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#106611 - 05/04/16 11:02 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CM
True, but the only connection to Satanism is the adversity it causes in one's life, and even then it's a matter of subjectivity. Sabotage knows no ideological affiliation.
True that. While there are (especially as of late) a whole litany of ideologies that are labeled "Satanism" by their proponents, I concern myself mostly with the intrinsic factors falling within the domain of the satanic for much the same reason you've mentioned: "Sabotage knows no ideological affiliation". If anything, it'd further obfuscate any efforts in the direction of "know thyself" to hold oneself to an ideological standard that, while one may totally agree with on paper (i.e. "I read the Satanic Bible and it just made sense" - if I had a nickle___), speaks mostly in broad generalizations fitting of a collective.

 Originally Posted By: CM
Calling these glitches in the psyche "Satan" is valid, but also interchangeable with calling it "daddy issues", or "PTSD". As the result is a product of adversity, all future behavior ties back to the original cause.
Demons seems more apt. Satan more or less being the sum-total of the “Shadow Self's” components. Though, I don't take it so far as Jung or Freud to imply that such a thing need be confronted, reconciled, or cured somehow. How one deals with such a thing is totally on them – in my mind it is simply enough to understand, and run with it. The subsequent development of adaptive or maladaptive traits are completely incidental – analogous to fire which, in and of itself, cares very little if has been employed to roast your marshmallows, or to sear your flesh from bone.

In short the primary difference between the satanic in my mind as opposed to Satanism, is that the former is a study in fire dynamics, as opposed to the culinary the arts.


Edited by antikarmatomic (05/04/16 11:03 AM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8D4AsLzlM0
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#106616 - 05/04/16 01:24 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
 Originally Posted By: S3
Satan as a self-help guru, just doesn't do it for me.
Me neither. The dose makes the poison, but make no mistake about it: it's still poison, not apple juice. That we derive anti-venom from snake venom should not lead one to conclude that serpents have some sort of "soft-spot" in their hearts for the sons of Adam (although, those who go about things with that sorta thinking in mind make for some neat train-wrecks to watch)


Knowledge corrupts, Experience corrupts... Poison doesn't necessarily lead to complete annihilation. Destruction, sure... but the remnants remain. It's like building upon a strong foundation, no matter what you build atop of it, without that bedrock... You have a weak House.
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#106619 - 05/04/16 10:01 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: S3
Knowledge corrupts, Experience corrupts
If you consider accretion to be a form of corruption, sure. 'Depends if you're of the notion that these things fundamentally change the original form. I'm not wholly convinced that they do.

*about 1/2 mile down this road is where most peeps like to fire it up and get all tied-up in ship of Theseus related banter

Besides, man is corrupt from before the first - according to some, anyway; and I see no reason to disagree with them.

 Originally Posted By: S3
It's like building upon a strong foundation, no matter what you build atop of it, without that bedrock... You have a weak House.
While true where applicable, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is. The building's already been built - the ground breaking: en el dia cero. That ship has already sailed.

Either way, the notion or implication that one can re-invent/rebuild themselves, purge the dross, and whatnot is well___ far too optimistic to sit right with me. It's too self-helpy, ya know? It does make for a good selling-point, though - as good as any other reason to join a cult.

Maybe the foundation is bedrock, maybe it's something along the lines of what they do in Venice, or maybe it's built atop an ancient Indian burial site - who knows? 'Only one way to find out, but whatever one's foundation is, it's there and they're stuck with it.


Edited by antikarmatomic (05/04/16 10:08 PM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR3PC8VDoz8
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#106629 - 05/05/16 02:07 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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 Quote:
but whatever one's foundation is, it's there and they're stuck with it.
Bingo. People don't change, events change. One could argue that the introduction of new information or life experience 'alters' to a degree, but I'd say it's just perception. The static is key in managing the electric.
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#106631 - 05/05/16 02:16 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
People don't change, events change. One could argue that the introduction of new information or life experience 'alters' to a degree, but I'd say it's just perception.


One can be unhealthy, placid, incapable. Or they can strengthen their being in emotional, rational, and physical ways.

What exactly is this part of the human condition you insist is never changing?
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#106633 - 05/05/16 02:27 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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I think you're confusing a state of being, with that which is static.

For example, in the winter you can be lazy and then come spring you start running again. Does this somehow change what you are?
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#106635 - 05/05/16 03:00 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
The static is key in managing the electric.


Are you saying more human than human is still just human?

What comes to my mind is desire.

Based on our other discussions, you (and my folly in correlation) made it clear that the default state of being is anything but emptiness.

Healthy or fat, humans desire what humans desire, regardless of their ability to manifest satisfaction.

Perhaps I am still just making correlations.
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#106709 - 05/10/16 12:20 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: LordBlyat]
Stirner Offline
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The Satanic Panic.

Growing up in the 80's/90's in the American bible belt, I was raised in a rich (if somewhat stupid) environment of urban legend and mythology surrounding the devil and devil cults. The sensationalist stuff on the TV with interview segments with people like Boyd Rice and Marilyn Manson was much more exciting at the time than it is now, and it all struck me as more interesting than what I saw of churchianity.


Edited by Stirner (05/10/16 12:20 AM)

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#106783 - 05/14/16 08:14 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Stirner]
theguybb Offline
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Interesting so all the media coverage on Satanism and satanists with the intent to scare people about Satanism had the opposite effect for you.

A TAD ironic that it made Satanism look more interesting or in other words people looking at Satanism more closely for themselves finding out what it really is then BECOMING satanists themselves. WOW that's the media for you.

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#106930 - 05/30/16 06:53 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
fiendish Offline
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It would be rather inaccurate and untrue to claim that something else than myself brought me to Satanism. Maybe I was born a Satanist, though I don't believe anything is innate. It was simply something that happened.
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#106934 - 05/30/16 08:39 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: fiendish]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
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 Quote:
It would be rather inaccurate and untrue to claim that something else than myself brought me to Satanism.


Wow that's strange. Are you saying you are Anton LaVey coming back from the dead? Or perhaps The Devil himself?

For example, I'm pretty sure what drew me to this place, and any interest at all was at least in part due to LaVey's writing on the subject.

 Quote:
It was simply something that happened.


How so?
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#106937 - 05/31/16 02:24 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Fiendish actually made a valid point.

If you state that it was ASL which brought you here, you're merely stating you have been lead (like a sheep) to this thing here.

If you state it was by the own intention, you're more likely to be the wolf that found a pack.
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#106938 - 05/31/16 11:25 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: *Dimitri
Fiendish actually made a valid point.

If you state that it was ASL which brought you here, you're merely stating you have been lead (like a sheep) to this thing here.

If you state it was by the own intention, you're more likely to be the wolf that found a pack.


His point is bullshit *Dimitri.

Are you trying to press my buttons? Do you really not understand my point?

I'm sure fiendish was the inventor of the word Satan as much as LaVey was the inventor of the circus act, or capes, horns, *black beard, potty humour and magic tricks.

Just for the record, LaVey didn't reveal anything to me I didn't already understand growing up on RATM.

*I guess I did bring myself here after all. Anton LaVey certainly didn't come back from the dead to give the command.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (05/31/16 12:04 PM)
Edit Reason: ****
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#106939 - 05/31/16 11:32 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Not sure what any of this has to do with me, but it is pretty smirk-worthy (albeit somewhat creepy and obsessive)
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#106940 - 05/31/16 11:38 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Honest mistake. Besides Dimitri, you're the only one who seems to take the time to read my posts.

But don't worry, I read yours to \:\)

*Fact is, you could say it was Rock and Roll, and then one day I was bored and read LaVey, but other ideas (jeet kune do anyone?) are still much better.

Honestly I can't master the art of bullshit quite like most (who seem to have a knack for it). I can't even pretend. I am a very rigid, stubborn person. I don't like big groups of friends, going out drinking, dinner parties, and all the blabber sauce spewed all over the place in between.

Its not that I hate everyone, I just don't care enough to try to fit in. I want more out of life, but the difference is this: Most people want to be the badass yet refuse to meet face to face what it takes to get to that point, and I have, and still I am.

Call it a personal necessity.
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#106942 - 05/31/16 01:41 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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ASL isn't the line where Satanism starts. Nor is his place on the pedastal you seem to have put him on within the shallow mindspace.

Through the years and the many introductions of the "newbs" (myself back in the day included) it becomes apparent his position was one of a mediator between a persons OU and SU within that persons worldview/mindspace.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Am I trying to push your buttons? Not consciously. And sometimes I like to see people squirm.


Edited by Dimitri (05/31/16 01:42 PM)
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#106946 - 05/31/16 02:26 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Do you think LaVey was inventing something, or simply describing a common practice by some humans? If every human were innately Satanic, how do you account for servitude, slavery, complacency, and stagnation among its population?
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#106948 - 05/31/16 02:56 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CN
But don't worry, I read yours to
I am thoroughly engorged. Let the infernal buggery begin. I will demonstrate for you, young padawan, how a real man sheaths his bokken – in the quivering poopers of my anally emasculated frienemies and lover boys.

 Originally Posted By: CN
I am a very rigid, stubborn person. I don't like big groups of friends, going out drinking, dinner parties, and all the blabber sauce spewed all over the place in between.
There are rainbows upon rainbows of pills designed specifically to remedy this very affliction! Within days there will be blabbersauce a plenty oozing from every orifice. To the window to the wall.

 Originally Posted By: CN
I want more out of life, but the difference is this: Most people want to be the badass yet refuse to meet face to face what it takes to get to that point, and I have, and still I am.
Alas, my heart belongs to another – it was simply not meant to be in the flesh for you and I. \:\(
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#106949 - 05/31/16 04:20 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
Czereda Offline
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 Quote:
If you state that it was ASL which brought you here, you're merely stating you have been lead (like a sheep) to this thing here.


Being influenced and inspired doesn't mean being a sheep. Everyone draws inspiration from various sources. Everyone is influenced to some degree by other people, by what they hear, see and read.

There was no Satanism before Anton LaVey. There were only cases of devil worship, most of them imaginary. Satan was simply a scarecrow used by the Church to control the believers.

Now, whether LaVey's ideas are unique is another cup of tea. Of course, he cherry picked from various sources, he also added some ideas of his own but the thing is that he put those ideas into the coherent whole (I hate the word "codify"), thus creating what we call today Satanism. Satanism, as we know it today, was born with the Church of Satan.

Also nobody here wrote that LaVey was a genius and we should put him on a pedestal. However, one should give credit where credit is due. Now, bitch please.
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#106950 - 05/31/16 04:40 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Naama Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
There was no Satanism before Anton LaVey


You are forgetting, my dear, that there was indeed an occult tradition before LaVey \:\)
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#106952 - 05/31/16 05:05 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Naama]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
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 Quote:
You are forgetting, my dear, that there was indeed an occult tradition before LaVey


So what? Christianity has its occult tradition too unless you're going to claim that Gnostics were Satanists, that Alchemy was Satanism, that Freemasons were Satanists, that Knights Templar were Satanists etc. All forms of Satanism that exist today were inspired by Anton LaVey. All the members of this forum, including you and Dimi, are influenced by him. I'm tired with the bullshit that some people perpetuate here. Satanism owes its existence to Anton LaVey.
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#106954 - 05/31/16 05:24 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Naama Offline
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As a movement..?
yes, perhaps...

If a person takes it seriously (I do, actually) - I would even close eyes at Lavey's "creature" here and will be considering the fact of passing an occult knowledge (like a chain, from one group to another or from certain individuals to other ones) further along the history of humanity.
(Crowley, Saturnian Brotherhood, and all those groups and individuals during history, and times...)
And stretching the truth a little bit (not being too harsh with names and titles) - I am strongly assured that Gnostics (Ophidians in particular) were Satanists, essentially.
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#106956 - 05/31/16 06:23 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
So what? Christianity has its occult tradition too unless you're going to claim that Gnostics were Satanists,


Interestingly enough, the Herbert Sloane's Ophite Cultus Sathanas was both Gnostic and Satanic, and this form seems to have predated LaVey's Church of Satan by several years (and there is intriguing evidence that LaVey acknowledged this himself in private correspondence, detailed here. It is also worth noting that the relationship between the two seemed very cordial and Sloane himself was a C.O.S member, during a 'freer time' when the organization was not so rigidly defined):

 Originally Posted By: Letter from H. Sloane, 1968
Dear brother

Yours of yesterday received. It was kind of Dr. La Vey to speak so well of me. He errors in saying I have been a devotee of Satanism for 30 years: it happens to be twice that span of years as I will be 63 years of age this Sept. 3rd and SATHANAS extended THE CALL to me the summer I was 3 years old. My Covenatorship dates back 38 years.

So far as I am concerned SALVATION is the purpose of any and all of the religions ------ and in SATANISM THE CALL is the ONLY approach; because a Gnostic is the approached and not the approacher.


Mr. Sloane himself summed up Satanism as "the position opposed to the worship of the force that brought the cosmos into existence as mind and matter out of the realm of pure spirit." So if he gets the first word, maybe the TOTBL is the only "real" Satanic group around nowadays, eh? ;\)

I kid of course. The utility of labels is limited and is in part dependent upon group consensus. But it does give some interesting food for thought.

My own passion for Satanism was strongly influenced by esotericism and folklore (Western demonology and the grimoires particularly, the usage of which was already being called "Satanism" in the 19th century occult revival), and I actually didn't care for LaVey's spiel all too much when I first decided to throw my lot in with Lucifer. However, after I started breaking in this whole "Satanist" identity as a black-clad youngin, I found many of his writings useful and worthy of consideration, and some of his coinages found their way into my personal lexicon. Has he influenced me? Definitely. But is my Satanism fundamentally dependent upon him? Not in the least.


Edited by The Zebu (05/31/16 06:37 PM)
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#106957 - 05/31/16 06:28 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Yet LaVey, too, concedes that all magic is satanic magic - that there were, indeed, always satanically inspired authors and actors in the world at large long before he came around. I get the impression he'd be the first to tell anyone he didn't make nothin' new. Granted, anyone could just as well make up any ol' ism or label, look to some notable historical figures or third-person anecdotes, and site their unique qualities and temperaments as concrete demonstrations of the theory behind their handy-dandy ism in action and application ("See that, folks? This is that.") but not too many people actually do - for whatever that's worth. Even so, there was a that prior to the this.

To what extent a that becomes a this distinct and unto itself depends entirely on how far it deviates from origin. The whole thing hinges around if the guy made something entirely new or simply gave whatever "it" is a name or an ism. As much is true of any ism, and it matters about as much in any ism - not in the least.

Many a Satanist there is who, having read the Satanic Bible, simply shrugged and scoffed "that's just one guy's opinion" - and carried happily along ritualistically engaging in all manner of fecal depravity, debauched orgies, and animal cruelty.

Far be it for me to say which witch is which.
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#106960 - 06/01/16 02:00 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
All the members of this forum, including you and Dimi, are influenced by him.

Came into contact with.
Influenced is a bridge too far. As, despite my initial posts here, the "Satanism" I've been following is quite different from his.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
There was no Satanism before Anton LaVey. There were only cases of devil worship, most of them imaginary. Satan was simply a scarecrow used by the Church to control the believers.

As mentioned by others in the same tread.. there was.
Not unlike its "modern" incarnation which you hang onto.. but there was.

Devil worship counts as Satanism in my book. Not the kind of practice I'm a huge fan of... but still.

It comes with the plasticity that entails all philosophical and religious labels.


 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I'm tired with the bullshit that some people perpetuate here.

Leave.

It can't be that hard.


Edited by Dimitri (06/01/16 02:05 AM)
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#106961 - 06/01/16 10:35 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
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 Originally Posted By: AK
Many a Satanist there is who, having read the Satanic Bible, simply shrugged and scoffed "that's just one guy's opinion"


My cursory glance at TSB (first edition, paperback) came when I was 16, at a friend's house. It was sitting right next to volumes of Vedic text. At that time I was a trendy poser 'Buddhist' so my approach was, "Neat, Satanism!"

I fully was expecting SRA shit, along the lines of Jesus is Lord propaganda, but what I got left me scratching my head saying, "well that seems logical, I don't get the tie-in to Satan. But oh well, more acid."

I don't know what it says, but it didn't really 'click' in the "this is totally me" way. I was more disappointed, really.

On topic: I have to agree, there was an LHP, but not a concise description of "Satanism" prior to the 1960's.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Leave.

It can't be that hard.

Kidding? Bitch is like Delbert Grady, she's always been the caretaker, even by proxy.

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#106964 - 06/01/16 01:14 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CM
"well that seems logical, I don't get the tie-in to Satan. But oh well, more acid."
That's the long and short of what I took out of it, as well. An enjoyable read, yes - but a huge part of the SB / SR / and even SW's appeal was very much along the lines of taking fake book covers on subways. - an appeal that cannot be over-stated for an angsty white-boy trapped in the "prison" that is the public education system. It gets oddly twisted and recursive to realize that the real meat and potatoes as to "satanic" part of these pieces of literature was solely in that they were so-titled. I've often heard the whole "finger pointing at the moon" analogy made in reference to this and yet, in actuality, the principle at work do is, in application, the reverse of that in my mind. Peeps are focused on the moon, when in reality it is the finger - the middle one specifically - that gives it anything by way of "teeth". The message is the medium.

As an aside, I find it amusing how infrequently LSD is mentioned in conjunction with Satanism and the occult. It's like it is to be shunned - not spoken about - as if it's taboo, or some red-headed step child or something. It's as if the legitimacy of one's *cough cough* "completely natural spiritual insights" may be called into question the moment they so much as concede a knowing wink. LaVey speaks at length regarding this in a surprisingly dismissive way, and does make some valid points, yet... come'on 1966-1969, San Francisco, freaking people out with this devil stuff - I have my suspicions. One might even go so far as to say that all forms of the occult or alt-religion are in someway inextricably linked to the consumption of at least a few characteristically staple mind-altering substances. How this diminishes the over-all credibility of any "occult movement" is beyond me. If anything, it'd explain ALOT - there's a difference between someone who's done a lot of acid, and someone who's just plain coo-coo for cocoa puffs... or the goddess... or whatever. The latter of which are soup-sandwich for no real reason.

I, for one, look forward to a new wave of occultism - one that revolves entirely around bath salts and PCP: zodacare od zodameranu!

 Originally Posted By: CM
I don't know what it says, but it didn't really 'click' in the "this is totally me" way. I was more disappointed, really.
I have trouble finding anything about the Satanic Bible that anyone could latch on to and be like "dude! this is totally me" it's like why? because he made some points you happen to agree with?

Satanism: "it's, like, my thing"
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#106965 - 06/01/16 04:47 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
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 Quote:
despite my initial posts here, the "Satanism" I've been following is quite different from his.


So in other words, it was LaVey who brought you here.

No matter how hard one may try to deny it, the great majority of people get introduced to Satanism via Anton LaVey. The Satanic Bible may not be anything revelatory but it still serves as a gateway.

I'm not denying there were various forms of the occult in the past, half Christian/gnostic in nature. Calling it Satanism is a stretch too far, in my opinion. Even Ophite Cultus Sathanas believed in and worshiped God, whom they regarded as a Spirit/Element pervading all nature, unless I misunderstood something.

Anyway, LaVey sort of codified Satanism as we know it today.

Of course, all labels are artificial and flexible and one can claim that all kinds of devil worship qualify as Satanism or that even Christians who masturbate but don't confess it are Satanists. One can stretch this stuff so far that it becomes meaningless.


Edited by Czereda (06/01/16 04:49 PM)
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#106972 - 06/01/16 09:53 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CZ
No matter how hard one may try to deny it, the great majority of people get introduced to Satanismvia Anton LaVey.
Alternatively, the great majority of people who are at all comfy talking about having been introduced to Satanism in the first place are those who by “Satanism” mean it in the sense that LaVey meant the word. A simple survey to illustrate what I'm sorta driving at:

1) Was the Satanic Bible at all what you thought it would be prior to ever having read it?
2) Did the word “Satanic” have any connotative or implicit meaning to you prior to having read the Satanic Bible?
3) To what extent, if any, did the implicit meaning of the word “Satanic” influence your decision to read this work?
4) To what extent, if any, did reading this work change the implicit meaning of the word “Satanic” for you?

yeah___ I'm not a huge fan of surveys, either

Point being, if the Satanic Bible were our only introduction to the word “Satanism” I'm certain a solid chunk of us would've passed right over the thing entirely as some other goofy thing with a goofy sounding name by some bald author with an apparent thing for goats (which would not be surprising, given the French sounding name of whats-his-face)

Even if your preconceived notions were somewhat vague and amorphous off the rip, there really wasn't much to elaborate on – what is there to explain? It's the devil FFS. E-v-i-l – and not this accademic pot-head “but what is evil?”/ moral relativity ninesense - evil as in “bad”/”harmful”/”toxic”/”injurious” – point-blank shit you're supposed to avoid as per your very own survival mechanisms necessitate – whatever that is – evil. Witches that kill dead babies (twice, I guess?), robes, graveyards, black cats, pentagrams, a naked prostitute, bound, gagged, with nipples protruding, daggers, a toad, and a chicken (and we all know where the chicken is going)… that's basically what first came to my mind. Shit, that's why I bothered to read it at all in the first place.

It went-over basically like how it goes over when what I thought was going to be a horror flick turned out to be porn. Or vice versa.

It made some good points, or at least passed off a few good points made by others ('don't really care which is more accurately the case), but still, I have to squint real-hard to see what much of any of it has to do with… err… the devil - at least as formerly understood quite intuitively by yours truly. What's more interesting is from whence all these (supposed) preconceived notions and misconceptions came about. Yet the preconceived notions and misconceptions predate the very church that made it its business to ahem clear-up. I couldn't tell you how that's supposed to work-out in anyone's mind, exactly, but apparently it does. The conversation seems to have went “are you guys sacrificing people to the devil?” “no” “but you're satanists?” “yes – we have the legal papers and literature to prove it” “are you sure you're not doing any of that?” “quite sure – we're that other type of satanist” “what other type of satanists?” “the ones that don't do the sorts of things satanists do – we're nonconformist like that” “I see”

One might ask “so, what's with the name?” but, to each their own.

Here's the thing – it doesn't stop there. It's like, for example: let's say my name actually is Adolf Hitler – for whatever reason, maybe my parents have a strange sense of humor; who knows. Or even better and more appropriately: I named myself that. If someone says to me “hey are you Adolf Hitler?” I can say “yeah. I am”. That's all well and good. Now, if that is followed-up with a “The Adolf Hitler? as-in the one that first comes to anyone's mind?”, the answer isn't “Yes, I am the only Adolf Hitler. There is no other. That other guy doesn't exist” - that's just kooky, really – and more importantly, too big of a hook to swallow.

Maybe it makes for a smart and perennially relevant outlet for social commentary, and I get that whole meta-angle, but that exists more as an incidental harmonic. I know it's a stretch, but hear me out: a lot of the draw of Satanism is, for an over-whelming majority of people drawn to it at all, not the Satanic Bible or whatever, but rather that initial exactly-what-the-fuck-you-think-it-means meaning of the word. What's amusing is that some cats have the audacity to explain the discrepancies entirely away as if their misleading advertising practices are mere symptoms of the reader's lack of comprehension. “It's not at all what you had in mind because we know what you had in mind and we say it's not”. This deserves at least a “well played”. A variation of the ol' bait and switch, except the switch is, in someways, redeemable. Not a total loss, just hardly what "we" were shopping for, originally. Some are cool with it, some not so much.
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#106975 - 06/02/16 01:21 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
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Actually it was through MCoS that I ended up here.
And before I ended up at MCoS it was, weirdly enough, through a Wiccan board where many of the members said my behavior had more in common with Modern Satanism.

I only read the SB in the period during and slightly after I first showed face here. Despite liking certain chapters I already thought certain parts were quite sketchy and even un-inspiring.

So... not really.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Anyway, LaVey sort of codified Satanism as we know it today.

Unless ofcourse we're talking about the cock-carousel called ONA which seems to have an attraction and is quite distinct from what you claim to be "codified".

The truth is, starting from the point where you said it was codified, that it was stretched already. Leave it to regular goons like you to harp and dance around to already have it made meaningless.
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#106984 - 06/02/16 04:54 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Czereda Offline
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Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
To what extent, if any, did reading this work change the implicit meaning of the word “Satanic” for you?


For me, it changed and considerably. I read the Satanic Bible quite late, in my 20s, and I already had some rudimentary knowledge about Satanism which I associated with the Church of Satan. So no I didn't expect to find some horrible things there but I expected it to be more blasphemous. I was quite surprised it was that mild. Still initially I approached it with some unease. But that was later.

When I was a teenager, TSB was in bookstores but I was afraid even to touch it. It was a time when I believed in a Devil, whom I imagined as a hairy monster with horns, hooves and a tail, ready to get you if unnecessarily provoked. Since I was taught that the Holy Bible was a word of God, I also imagined that the Satanic Bible was written with the help of Satan himself.

There was no SRA panic in my country but some prejudices were circulating. I remember watching a half-assed "documentary" on TV about Satanic sects. I don't remember what it was all about except that it was said there that the Satanists kidnapped virgins at the bus stops, dragged them to their lairs and there sacrificed them to the Dark Lord. I remember scratching my head and wondering how they knew the woman at the bus stop was a virgin. Did they check it right there at the bus stop? Or first kidnapped her and checked later? What if the kidnapped woman turned out not to be a virgin? Did they still kill her? Rape her? Or just let her go?

I also remember reading some book about animal sacrifice done by the bad Satanists. It was quite terrible, a thorough description of how some kitten or puppy was mutilated and brutally killed during a sickening ritual. Seriously, the guy who wrote it had a sick imagination. But apart from these two instances, there wasn't much fear mongering.

My views changed after reading some neutral articles about Satanism and visiting the CoS website. Anyway, it was even after I gave up belief in the Devil altogether.

Those preconceived notions about Satanism or the Satanic come from the Christian superstitions. They are quite old but whether those superstitions predate Christianity is debatable. Pagan religions had their pantheons of the dark gods but I wouldn't compare them to the Christian Devil that represents the essence of moral Evil. The pagan religions had their rules and precepts too, sometimes the notion of eternal punishment also appeared, like the Greek Tartarus or the Egyptian judgement of Osiris but the notion of sin is most visible in Abrahamic religions. The pagan gods often behaved in a way that we would nowadays describe as sinful or immoral. Yahweh's behavior leaves much to be desired too.

I don't really see the connection between Satanism and the Christian superstitious vision of the Devil. In my opinion, Satanism is rather doing away with the Christian boogeyman unless you show me widespread cases of virgin sacrifice, eating babies, orgies at cemeteries etc. Most cases of the Devil worship in the past were totally imaginary if you only consider the accusations thrown at the Knights Templar or Freemasons. Even the history of the Black Mass is full of rumors and allegations.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Actually it was through MCoS that I ended up here.


The Modern Church of Satan and also the ONA appeared as a reaction to the Church of Satan. So yeah the MCoS is not influenced by LaVey, not in the least. ;\)


Edited by Czereda (06/02/16 05:04 PM)
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#106985 - 06/02/16 05:44 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
fiendish Offline
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What is strange is that you gave the best example of what is inaccurate and untrue. I'm trying to exclude phrases like "I'm pretty sure" and "at least" from my universe of thought, though I'm still susceptible in such ambiguities.
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#106987 - 06/02/16 07:12 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CZ
When I was a teenager, TSB was in bookstores but I was afraid even to touch it. It was a time when I believed in a Devil, whom I imagined as a hairy monster with horns, hooves and a tail, ready to get you if unnecessarily provoked. 
That too was part of the appeal – especially at an age when my thought process allowed for the very likely-hood of such a thing existing exactly as advertised and seen on TV. Snakes, and snails, and puppy dog-tails, signed sealed and delivered. Oh sure, it all sounds pretty irrational many years down the road – 20/20 hindsight – but at one time that was a huge part of the appeal. Some peeps are just, by nature (or nurture, 'doesn't matter, really) wired to react to the reviled with curiosity and fascination as opposed to with fear, appall, and/or disgust. Some peeps like to poke at road-kill or see what squirms and scuttles beneath rocks. I was under the impression that it was going to be like the Necronomicon only exponentially darker, sadistic, and revolting – and that, in my mind, at that age, there was a totally real possibility of provoking some malicious entity or other – no bullshit. In some ways it's sort of a cop-out: “we don't actually believe in a literal Devil or demons”. I think it would've made for a much more interesting read if the premise were “yeah. We actually do believe in the guy downstairs, and yeap – he's pissed – 'only a matter of time now, 'better start getting on his good-side post-haste”, and at that age I was expecting something more along those lines. I venture to guess that the author of this book – the Satanic Bible – in choosing to title it as such was pretty much aware that many held similar expectations – for however irrational. One way to avoid living-up-to expectations is reclassify them as popular-misconceptions.

 Originally Posted By: CZ
I remember scratching my head and wondering how they knew the woman at the bus stop was a virgin. Did they check it right there at the bus stop? Or first kidnapped her and checked later? What if the kidnapped woman turned out not to be a virgin? Did they still kill her? Rape her? Or just let her go?
Indeed, this does complicate things. This is just one of the many reasons why children are preferred – it takes a lot of the guess-work out what really is a matter of significant importance. It is, reportedly, permissible to graft a make-shift hymen of toad skin, but who really has time for all that? The raping part, however, is totally fabricated. When properly performed, intercourse occurs postmortem. By definition, that makes it something altogether different than rape. A word to the wise left completely out of this so-called “Satanic Bible”.


 Originally Posted By: CZ
I also remember reading some book about animal sacrifice done by the bad Satanists. It was quite terrible, a thorough description of how some kitten or puppy was mutilated and brutally killed during a sickening ritual. Seriously, the guy who wrote it had a sick imagination. But apart from these two instances, there wasn't much fear mongering.
While I hold no soft-spot in my heart for cats and kittens, I find the thought of torturing, maiming, and killing them for any purpose including food utterly repugnant. Some people are not so disinclined. Some do terrible, terrible things to small animals literally for the lulz. Such people exist. Sociopaths, sadists, call them what you will, they are not “Satanists”, but for different reasons other than a case of mistaken identity or popular misconception. A more thematically consistent differentiation between sadism and ritual practice, is that in the case of the latter, the participants are indeed highly averse to performing such an act as the selected rite requires of them. Transforming society's norms by working counter-current to them is neat and all, but to willfully work counter to your own moral fiber brings with it a profoundly transformative effect on the quote-unquote soul in that, with persistence, it kills it.

For as terrible a proposition as this all sounds, and indeed is, some people find such endeavors quite liberating. Additionally it is useful preparation for situations wherein the conditions of survival do not permit the luxury of conscience.
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#106993 - 06/03/16 01:20 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Naama Offline
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
Many a Satanist there is who, having read the Satanic Bible, simply shrugged and scoffed "that's just one guy's opinion" - and carried happily along ritualistically engaging in all manner of fecal depravity, debauched orgies, and animal cruelty.


So you do not agree that (like it was always in history) successful path of a Satanist/occultist -
- demands (most of the time)
- different sacrifices of different kind, along the way, to achieve the goals,
where a strong stream of energy
has to be released...

And naturally, in addition to what I just said - its self-understood, that:
Other then "alive" being,- nothing really can offer that very level of "energy released".
Isnt so..?
(That's exactly, by the way, why Christians say that "jesus-died-on-cross,)..

Or /you really really think - that "human WILL alone" - (if properly exercised) - "can move mountains"
- like psychology and psychologists suggest to the public- Freud, Jung, and Lavey (on the LHP side)

So

What would that be
first, or second ..?, -
of those two approaches I just brought (in form of 2 basic examples





Edited by Naama (06/03/16 01:38 AM)
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#106998 - 06/03/16 11:05 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Naama]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: NA
So you do not agree that (like it was always in history) successful path of a Satanist/occultist - 
- demands (most of the time) 
- different sacrifices of different kind, along the way, to achieve the goals, 
where a strong stream of energy 
has to be released.
With enough wordsmithery any given person could make the case for or against supporting the effectiveness of an allegorical take on the word “sacrifice” over a literal one. Sure. But short of having experimented extensively in both, their opinions on the matter, like my own, no matter how well-worded and well-reasoned, amount only to so much conjecture and appeal to incidental matters of moral and legal practicality. Fortunately, that's neither here nor there. No claims are made by anyone concerning the effectiveness of one take on the word over the other in terms of “energy release” (a thing whose very nature itself is largely conjectured, sensed, and otherwise not-well-defined). Instead, they are content simply spell-out what the-path-of-X entails by way of practice and application with a series of shalts and shalt nots / is and is nots. In the case of the Satanic Bible, these is and is nots read much differently than how a fair number of people go-in expecting them to read.

It may come as a shock to the senses to some, but not everyone's reaction to this was “oh. I'm glad they clarified that”. It wasn't universally well-received, much less considered authoritative, by all who've read it. Some out-right reject it in favor of the very “misconceptions” the book goes out of its way to clear-up. While I'm not as extreme in my assessment of the thing, others have been, are, and will continue be. For some, stating that Satanism is not devil worship goes-over in much the same way as stating that football isn't soccer, or that African Americans are not niggers. For some, they read the Satanic Bible and were like “oh. These really were not the droids we were looking for”.

 Originally Posted By: NA
Other then "alive" being,- nothing really can offer that very level of "energy released". 
Isnt so..?
(That's exactly, by the way, why Christians say that "jesus-died-on-cross,)..
In the occult world, anything goes. It certainly isn't the craziest theory I've heard to-date, but it's nothing I'd present to anyone with a straight face.

 Originally Posted By: NA
Or /you really really think - that "human WILL alone" - (if properly exercised) - "can move mountains" 
- like psychology and psychologists suggest to the public- Freud, Jung, and Lavey (on the LHP side)
It'd be cool if human will alone could do such things. It does not seem as if it is so much as capable of starting small fires unassisted.
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#107002 - 06/03/16 12:53 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CZ
No matter how hard one may try to deny it, the great majority of people get introduced to Satanism via Anton LaVey. The Satanic Bible may not be anything revelatory but it still serves as a gateway.


Not quite. LaVey was just describing a vibe, an MO that certain people live. I was already living this way, Satan or Satanism is just a descriptive of a prescriptive way of going about things.

So this is why any fringe group or practice would qualify.

To say that the TSB is a gateway is gross inaccuracy. I guess, only for the Occultnik's described by CoS members. Posers and fakers, trying to mask their core.

To say LaVey codified it is false. He didn't codify anything. He strung together preexisting described ideas and through in filler for publishing.

To say it's bullshit to combat your weak assessment is a weak argument Czereda.
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#107004 - 06/03/16 01:02 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
To say that the TSB is a gateway is gross inaccuracy.


Depends SIN. Someone with no clue about the occult or 'left hand' values may find it revealing, and begin a whole new study into the subject, maybe even change their livelihood.

Sure, it comes down to pre-existing conditions, but many unfamiliar pieces of information can act as gateways to new perspective and experience.
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#107005 - 06/03/16 05:58 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
To say LaVey codified it is false. He didn't codify anything. He strung together preexisting described ideas


I didn't say he invented them but selected them and put them into a coherent whole, organized the ideas into a coherent paradigm, gave a structure to something which was scattered here and there, disorganized. This is how I understand "codify." Dunno, maybe I misunderstood the verb but I explained what I meant next to it.

Most people read TSB in their teens and this is how they get introduced to Satanism. Later on, one usually turns to other sources and also starts searching for the antecedents. So yes, it does serve as a gateway.

The whole Satanic subculture started with Anton LaVey and his Church of Satan. All other organizations followed later and were created in response to Satanism embraced by the CoS: the Temple of Set, the ONA, the First Satanic Church, the Modern Church of Satan etc.

Of course, when it comes to the essence behind the label or -ism, then I'm not denying that the LHP or the occult in general predates LaVey, I just don't see much connection between the esotericism of the past and today occult scene. Anyway, even the Christian heretics who opposed the Pope, could be considered to embody the archetype of Satan as the adversary to everything that is accepted and considered virtuous.
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#107013 - 06/04/16 05:42 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
LoneWolf78 Offline
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Posts: 435
I do largely agree with your statement here.

The first thing that I thought of was an analogy around the same time frame of the whole 60's subculture. Take the mainstreaming of porn. Hugh Hefner (despite some of his ego inflated claims) did not invent the concept of pictures of naked women in a pin up setting. In it's most primitive concept, cavemen decorated the walls of their caves with crude drawings of the female form. Photographing nude women for calendars had also been around for a bit (remember that the first Playboy centerfold was a photograph of Marilyn Monroe that Hefner bought the copyright to from a calendar that had used it before). Likewise, there were always the "dirty books" that were sold in the back rooms of pool halls. Hefner also did not invent the concept of a lifestyle of sophistication. Obviously this could be traced back to the Victorian era. I also could be wrong, but I think that the fascination with Hollywood and entertainment was long before Hefner's time.

All of that said, Hefner was the guy who came along and took some from all of those concepts with a bit of Kinsey and Master's and Johnson and then began to brand it with his own personal philosophy. Everything that came after Playboy (no pun), from Penthouse, to Hustler, Deep Throat and all of the other magazines and videos came along largely because of the success that Hefner had with Playboy. So did Hefner invent any of these concepts? No. However, he did codify them in a way that was not done before and in that respect, he deserves credit for putting it on the map.

 Quote:
Anyway, even the Christian heretics who opposed the Pope, could be considered to embody the archetype of Satan as the adversary to everything that is accepted and considered virtuous.



This is also true when you look at how John Aylmer, a bishop of England under Queen Elizabeth I used the term in his phamphlet, "An Harbour for Faithful and Truth Subjects" published in 1559, he used the term Satanist to describe atheists. Seeing as though that Satan is the Hebrew word for adversary I would also say that Satan is subjective as Anton LaVey also acknowledged in his works.

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#109360 - 10/07/16 04:25 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
97and107 Offline
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Satanism and Satanists were mostly unappealing to me until I had a dream I was having sex with the goat himself. The love of my life ended up being a Satanist. That was about five years later or so.
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#109367 - 10/07/16 09:51 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: 97and107]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Originally Posted By: 97and107
Satanism and Satanists were mostly unappealing to me until I had a dream I was having sex with the goat himself. The love of my life ended up being a Satanist. That was about five years later or so.


Why are all the hot ones batshit crazy?

Makes life interesting I guess.
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#109368 - 10/07/16 10:39 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Why are all the hot ones batshit crazy?


Sure, it might seem interesting at first glance.

Its not just the hot ones Dread.

I've given up questioning it. Its useless.
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#109450 - 10/11/16 07:57 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
97and107 Offline
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We're all mad. It's a symptom of the way the human mind evolved. If you run the calculations that's the answer you end up with. If you don't choose what kind of crazy you will be then it will be chosen for you. Occam's razor does not factor in what is infinite and unknown. The simplest theory is never the right one in physics and often in biology. The difference between me and you is I know I don't know what I don't know.
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#109454 - 10/11/16 10:54 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: 97and107]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
The difference between me and you is I know I don't know what I don't know.


How do you conclude this difference between us? You know, besides an overdose of weed and mushrooms or whatever you WAtonians are on.

In any case, its fuckin' cold, I've been up all night, I'm going to sleep.

 Quote:
We're all mad. It's a symptom of the way the human mind evolved.


And what of dreams? How have they 'evolved?'

In any case, I don't know what I'll dream of, and after its over, I'll probably forget.
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#109488 - 10/12/16 09:28 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
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 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
Satanism and Satanists were mostly unappealing to me until I had a dream I was having sex with the goat himself. The love of my life ended up being a Satanist. That was about five years later or so.


Why are all the hot ones batshit crazy?

Makes life interesting I guess.

Of all the posts by that member you could have chosen as support for the "batshit crazy" diagnosis, and you picked a generic female wet dream?
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#109502 - 10/13/16 04:57 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Kind of a straw/camel thing.

Wait, generic? LOL.
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#109507 - 10/13/16 09:49 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Wait, generic? LOL.

Within the last week...

 Originally Posted By: ShadowLover
As for Predator... He's a big strong warrior - what's not for a woman to desire. And I have a monster fetish and can do ugly. Plus there is the aspect of danger - it would be a hell of a face to sit on!

Yes, this is actually a fairly prevalent fantasy.

Even the most experienced and jaded men seem baffled when women try to explain how our dirty minds work.
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#109511 - 10/14/16 10:09 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dan_Dread Offline
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No, that's not it. I know you Chickie's are just as dirty as we are, probably worse.

The craziness here is more about how some sex dream about the devil is apparently causally related to her current relationship status. I dunno how generic that kind of thinking is.
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#109515 - 10/14/16 03:45 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
SIN3 Offline
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Rhetorical I know, but my theory is that attractive people tend to skate through life on the reaction of people to their looks.

I imagine her social circle would be awed by such a claim. Illusion Correlation on tap and the audience is awe struck. The reality is, they probably aren't even listening and are too busy staring at her looks.

Has a different effect on a forum. I don't know that it makes life more interesting. I'd say it makes it rather boring and a-typical.

People believe in and capitalize on baseless claims to give their lives more depth.

#Basic
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#109526 - 10/15/16 05:22 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Entropy brought me to Satanism. Constant degradation.
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#109528 - 10/15/16 05:50 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
Bacchus Offline
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Registered: 09/08/16
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1. My own rebellious spirit, my own deep discontent with white light religions and heard morality (ego-sacrifice).

2. My interest in philosophies (Epicurus, Nietzsche and Aristotle) which are incompatible with Christianity and feelings, opinions, beliefs and traditions of the common man.

3. LaVey's individual-friendly, Epicurean-friendly system which is unique among all religions.

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#109542 - 10/17/16 02:38 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Bacchus]
AzazelBaal Offline
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My desire to live my life the way I think is best. Interest in philosophy. No rebellion though. I came to Satanism at 17 when I read The Satanic Bible and the whole philosophy is how I live so I proclaim Satanism with pride.
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#109544 - 10/17/16 08:24 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: AzazelBaal]
Sargeist Offline
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Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
A few years ago I began listening to Black Metal and as I got more attracted to the satanic imagery and lyrics I began to look deeper into it. Theistic Satanism picked my interest first and read TSB for the first time, but eventually the interest faded away. I spent the first months of this year trying to be my old self but after reading LaVey, Ragnar, Nietzsche and some pages from the ONA mss (among other stuff) it was pretty hard to see Nature as I did before.

Nowadays, though, I'm devouring The Lucifer Principle and despite not being a popular book, I feel it explains Nature in a straightforward manner and, combined with the previously mentioned authors, I came to the conclusion that the one concept that defines Satanism is "Might is Right" which has been vilified by RHP followers and their SJW offshoots.

At the moment I'm pondering whether I believe on Satanism or Nature as a dark, destructive force which nonetheless deserves praise for creating order out of chaos, and beauty out of uglyness.
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#109552 - 10/17/16 07:59 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Sargeist]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
At the moment I'm pondering whether I believe on Satanism or Nature as a dark, destructive force which nonetheless deserves praise for creating order out of chaos, and beauty out of uglyness.


Nature is both a creative and destructive force. It feeds and kills. There is competition in nature but there is also cooperation. I read "The Lucifer Principle" some time ago and it's more about individual human beings or animals being an inseparable part of the Whole. If I remember well, the author mentions how some of the monkeys abandoned by their parents or their tribe died because they lost the connection to the super-organism, which was in that case their monkey tribe. The same is with the humans who get depressed and wither away if they feel not useful to their family or society. It goes against the popular notion of individualism. Like a cell in the body, a human being is not a lonely island, totally independent, but is the part of the human community, he lives not for himself but for something greater than himself and, like a cell in the body, he dies when he fulfills his role.

I got the impression that, contrary to the Satanic Bible, Bloom's book is strongly anti-individualistic. It seems that we are only subservient parts of some greater biological machine and we are only happy as long as we serve it. A similar concept you will find in the ONA, where the focus is on the individual not living for himself but him being an integral part of the Universe, Nature, his family and his tribe. Honor, loyalty, an empathetic relationship with Nature and cultivating the ancestral tradition replace selfishness and hedonism.

This is what Anton Long says:
The majority is – and always will be until it evolves to become something else – raw material to be used, moulded, cut-away and shaped to create what must be. There is no such thing as an innocent person because everyone who exists is part of the whole, the change, the evolution, the presencing of life itself, which is beyond them, and their life only has meaning through the change, development and evolution of life. Their importance is what they can become, or what can be achieved through their death. Their tragedy, their living – their importance does not lie in their individual happiness or their individual desires or whatever.

And this is what Howard Bloom says:
Like a sculptor carving a figure from stone, nature creates by destroying. Her hammer and chisel strike over and over again. Each time there is a shower of chips. And as the splinters pile up on the floor, a new form emerges where the blade has been at work. The sculptor at the end of his day simply sweeps away the heaps of useless dust and shards of stone. So does nature. But those discarded scraps in the natural workshop are the bodies of creatures who moments before were alive, creatures like you and me.

They could shake hands together. Anton LaVey, however, would disagree, I think.

Whether nature is Satanic or not is a matter of human subjective judgement. The Christians think that nature, being God's creation, bears some sort of God's signature. You can learn something about God by contemplating his creation. If so, then God has a creepy sense of humor. For example, rats infected with toxoplasmosis are a funny twist on "Love thy enemies" concept. Is the "creator" a loving God? Satan? Or perhaps both?


Edited by Czereda (10/17/16 08:03 PM)
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#109644 - 10/21/16 11:07 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
I just finished reading The Lucifer Principle and it's a great book... until the final paragraphs were the author can't help but plunge into the same "humans must love each other" bullshit as everone else.

We've had the same reptilian and mammal brains for hundreds of thousands of years and we're expected to wipe that programming out in just a few centuries? How would Nature create without any conflict? Is resolving conflicts with politics only a realistic expectation?

What I can gather from these sources (LaVey, Bloom, ONA) is that while we look out for our best interest, it's pretty naive to think we can survive without relying on others from time to time; however, it is also naive to think we can produce a society where physical destruction is replaced with heated debates where defeated memes go into the trash bin and the victorious ones become the norm. As long as we crave to be on top of the pecking order we'll always need to physically overpower someone or something else.

So in conclusion, while Black Metal and Anton LaVey drew me to Satanism, reading Bloom and Myatt are making me discard the false dichotomy between selfishness/selflessness and numinous/sinister. Nature doesn't see any difference between creating and destroying so why should I?

As an anecdote, a few years ago I was trying to get into Wicca and began reading upon the subject. However, everytime I pictured myself doing a Wiccan ritual I couldn't help but laugh internally. Something about the whole thing seemed ridiculous. Now that I learned about Nature's true essence I realize Wicca has a distorted view of it bordering on the childish and naive, and hence I finally know why I couldn't take it seriously in the first place.


Edited by Sargeist (10/21/16 11:09 AM)
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#111365 - 01/30/17 01:42 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
SED Offline
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Registered: 12/15/16
Posts: 2
Loc: Sweden
The first time I heard of Satanism was in 9th grade. We were doing essay's on alternative religions in school, and my teacher suggested that I could write about Satanism. Since I'm really into metal I thought it would be cool to learn about it. At first, I was quite surprised when I discovered that most forms of Satanism weren't about devil worshiping, burning churches, and sacrificing children. I read the faq on CoS's website, but I didn't really understand the religion at first, and I didn't understand what Satan had to do with it. My essay didn't turn out that great since I didn't quite grip the concept. If I remember correctly I didn't even hand it in. I don't even know why, but during that summer break I kept going back to CoS's website and read, and the more I read the more interested I got. Later I picked up the Satanic Bible, and then all the pieces fell into place! I finally understood what the religion was about, and what Satan had to do with it. The most astonishing thing was, I agreed with almost everything in it, it really felt like Lavey had tapped into my mind and put down my thoughts in a book! I've considered myself a Satanist since then, and it has really helped me in my life.
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#111402 - 02/06/17 11:12 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SED]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
it really felt like Lavey had tapped into my mind and put down my thoughts in a book! I've considered myself a Satanist since then, and it has really helped me in my life.


The guy's been dead a few decades by now. You sure you weren't tapping into your own mind? What about his writing did you find so reflective?

I personally enjoyed The Devil's Notebook, the good guy badge comes to mind. I can relate to a sense of disgust with people who carry about a false badge of accomplishment, or entitlement. The chapters in TSB on Compulsion vs Indulgence were interesting. What caught my eye overall was a sense of eliminating self punishment in living for yourself first and foremost. Guilt and shame stir the social pot, and keep it turning.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (02/06/17 11:13 AM)
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#113703 - 08/01/17 12:24 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
feelzgood Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
First post EVER here... Please be gentle...
I was already an Atheist, but had to face up to some real truths about myself. First, as I've gotten older, I've had an increasingly lower tolerance for stupidity and 'herd mentality.' Second, as a gay man, I had already put aside "taboo" thoughts about sex and have fully embraced pleasure and eroticism for many years. Third, ever since I was a child growing up in a Baptist church, I've always adored blasphemy and sacrilege.... can't help it. But also, on a less serious note, because I cannot shake my desire to troll hysterical Christians. So easy... and tempting. \:\)
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#113706 - 08/02/17 02:28 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: feelzgood]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1798
Loc: New York
Howdy.

I see you've been registered for close to 4 years, and just now made your first post. Had nothing to say til now?
I know we usually tell those new to Satanism, to read more and post less, but damn, you took that too a whole new level! \:D
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#113708 - 08/02/17 10:55 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Asmedious]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
That's nothing. There's a guy back on page three I believe, who's been here since 08 and has only one post, no lie...

I've seen some disturbing avatars in my time, but that one takes the cake. I'm generally not for censorship, but I'm glad I have adblock just in case...
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#113710 - 08/02/17 11:18 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Asmedious]
feelzgood Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
HA! Yes, I've been very slow and deliberate about my learning. Honestly, I had forgotten about having joined this site until I got a recent birthday greeting from y'all. AAANNNDD I'd be lying if I said I wasn't terrified of saying something wrong or looking like a 'tool.' I'm still such a novice... waiting for my Satanic Bible to arrive in the mail. Yep, took me this long to order that, too. \:\)
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#113713 - 08/02/17 05:36 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: feelzgood]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3996
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: feelzgood
HA! Yes, I've been very slow and deliberate about my learning. Honestly, I had forgotten about having joined this site until I got a recent birthday greeting from y'all. AAANNNDD I'd be lying if I said I wasn't terrified of saying something wrong or looking like a 'tool.' I'm still such a novice... waiting for my Satanic Bible to arrive in the mail. Yep, took me this long to order that, too. \:\)


That seems strange to me. Normally, people brand new to Satanism read TSB fairly quickly as it's available everywhere online, even on this very site, and proceed from there to forums and the like.

I can't logically construct these events in reverse.
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#113715 - 08/02/17 06:25 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
The issue is that Satanism, like anarchism is a praxis. Thus at certain points on the trail, other points look like bullshit. For instance the concept of respect of others when one is transgressing their limits, seems insane. However whom and what to respect may become clear later.

It's never about casting off all authority, just the authority that you never validated through choice.


Edited by MindFux (08/02/17 06:26 PM)

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#113719 - 08/03/17 08:37 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: MindFux]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3996
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well, sure. I can't argue too much with any of that.

However, mine wasn't really a 'Satanism' specific' comment. Say you have no idea what... volleyball..is. Not how it's played, not how it's organized, not how many players..

Totally new to the idea(you think maybe a net is involved)

So logically you log on to your PC and join volleyball forums dot org because...reasons.
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#113721 - 08/03/17 09:13 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: feelzgood]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: fg
AAANNNDD I'd be lying if I said I wasn't terrified of saying something wrong or looking like a 'tool.' I'm still such a novice.


This sort of thing always perplexes me. Terrified of what? A little criticism? Pride is a funny thing. It can be rather counterproductive at times, especially if one had the impetus to 'join' a discussion. What better way to test your understanding of what your core impulses are. This is about YOU after-all isn't it?

IMO, it should never be about 'US'.
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#113723 - 08/03/17 09:29 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
feelzgood Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
Just taking the advise of 'treading lightly' as a newcomer here. My skin is plenty thick and I welcome good criticism. And I completely agree about it being about ME. I can't ever look at this as 'us' because I believe we are all on separate paths, and that Satanism is only a portion of my entire self.
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#113725 - 08/03/17 05:01 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: feelzgood]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1384
Loc: CA
Well, so you know, after you finish TSB there is a reading comprehension packet for you to do. Nothing big, just remember your Lex Talionis, and other bold words and the "What is Satanism to me?" essay on the last page should be no problem.

It's a prerequisite course for 19th Century German Philosophy.

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#113728 - 08/03/17 05:24 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: feelzgood]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
A 4 year wait was quite the apprehension. A pride thing? Hell, any criticism offered by others pales in comparison to those I dish out to myself.

Speaking of criticisms, anyone that tells you reading the TSB is a requisite for understanding Satanism is full of shit.
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#113739 - 08/04/17 01:24 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
feelzgood Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
I've heard that before about TSB. I personally consider it 'required reading', but i always keep grains of salt handy... for everything.
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#113927 - 08/14/17 09:25 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
Joseph Curwen Offline
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Registered: 08/04/17
Posts: 11
Loc: Bogota, Colombia
In my personal case, I can't say it was a logical or rational process; it was literally a call from within, call it 'gut feeling', intuition, call of the blood or whatever you want to call it.

It was the 90's, I was 13 years old and was perusing in a bookstore, and somehow I ended in the 'esoteric' section. Of course I didn't know even the meaning of that word but a couple of titles fascinated me: Arthur Edward Waite's "The Book of Black Magic and of Pacts", Aleister Crowley's "Book of the Law", of course I ended bought them, and the rest is history.
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#114114 - 08/23/17 08:19 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Joseph Curwen]
PanEerie Offline
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Registered: 03/09/17
Posts: 1
I wanted to know what Satanism actually was and what it stood for, so I found out, bought some books, gathered my own thoughts on the subject matter and found that I related more with Satanist concepts than other previously considered philosophies.
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#114145 - 08/25/17 07:34 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: PanEerie]
VenusSatanas Offline
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Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 16
What brought me to Satanism?
I discovered Satanism, ironically at the local library. It was 1992 and the Satanic Panic was slowly dying out. Being 13, I didn't really know about the panic and the hype, so I came to Satanism without expectations.

I found the book, The Church of Satan by Blanche Barton in the reference section. Even though I wasn't raised as a christian, and my parent's weren't christian themselves, I was drawn to the ideas in the book.

It made sense to me that people were living in a world where they wanted to live by their natural instincts, yet wore a mask in public and called themselves christian. The ideas in the book helped me to make sense of the world around me.

I always had a spiritual view of Satan, though, and approached Satan as I would have any other god. I made my first pact with Satan that year in 1992, to initiate myself as a Satanist.

It wasn't until a few years later that I was finally able to read the Satanic Bible, at the age of 15. By then, I had developed my own independent way of practicing and living Satanism.

I have generally found that people who relate to Satanism feel at home with the ideas, philosophy or spirituality of it. For some, it just feels natural; either you are inclined towards Satanism or you are not, there is no in between.

It is because of this, I can somewhat agree with the 'born Satanist' theory. Not that you are literally born as a Satanist, because no one is born into a religion or philosophy - but that Satanism matches certain people so perfectly that they feel they were born to live the Satanic life.
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#114153 - 08/26/17 12:33 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: VenusSatanas]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
I think the opposing side to this approach is treating Satanism as a religion or philosophy. I never have, I stand by it as a method of approach, one that is merely described as Satanic. A term that could easily be replaced with a half dozen other vocabulary words. The essence of it, has never been about words but rather recognized in deed. Without those, what do you really have?

This is why the question itself reads oddly.
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#114161 - 08/26/17 09:33 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Dark Magician Offline
member


Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
SIN3:

I think the opposing side to this approach is treating Satanism as a religion or philosophy. I never have, I stand by it as a method of approach, one that is merely described as Satanic. A term that could easily be replaced with a half dozen other vocabulary words. The essence of it, has never been about words but rather recognized in deed. Without those, what do you really have?

A method of approach? Deeds? A praxis?

A Christian does Christianity.

An employee does employment.

A Satanist does Satanism.

An artist does art

A bike rider does bike riding

The list goes on and on and on.

To say that a Satanist does Satanism is the most obvious and the most mundane claim you can possibly make.

If there was such a thing as an essence than that “essence” would be words and ideas i.e. philosophy or religion.

How does one determine that one’s particular type of doing is Satanism and hence the person engaged in the doing is a Satanist without reference to a words and ideas, to a philosophy or a religion? Where’s the context?

The doing, which one classifies as Satanic or Christian, is perceived as distinctly Satanic or Christian, because of the ideas, which one has access to, and which one applies to the type of doing to “accurately” describe that doing.

There is no essence here - there is only the application of certain ideas to certain doing i.e. the describing of certain doing according to such and such ideas or words.

The battleground has been and always will be: who has the power to determine which words and ideas will be used to describe the doing and hence which words and ideas will be excluded from describing that same type of doing.

What’s the difference between the practice defined as Satanism and the practice of shooting marbles in a school playground? How do you define the difference? Is there a difference?

It is the ideas which are fought over. The question: what brought you to Satanism is the most important question of all.

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#114164 - 08/26/17 10:07 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
I've always been defiant, some of LaVey's writings in The Devil's Notebook sparked my curiosity, but I don't pledge to any specific group, that kind of thing has always turned me off.

I wonder if that was SIN's opinion before she narrated ADM?

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician
If there was such a thing as an essence than that “essence” would be words and ideas i.e. philosophy or religion.


It holds true from a particular scope to acknowledge your quote, and the opposite. Words only represent soemthing that already is, be it defiance, antinomian, Satanism, rebellion, the essence remains.
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#114166 - 08/27/17 12:47 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: theguybb]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 334
Loc: SoCal
What brought me to Satanism?

I'm not gunna lie. I keeps it real. My stoner friends back in junior high brought me into Satanism.

We smoked weed, did acid, listened to heavy metal... classic stuff like Guns & Roses [my favourite metal band]. That was our "Satanism" back then.

That's the short version of how I got into Satanism.

Long version: here.

It's not how you get yourself into the Door my nigga that matters. It's what you do with yourself once inside that makes the difference.


Edited by Caladrius (08/27/17 12:55 AM)
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#114168 - 08/27/17 09:42 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
You are so dense, I wonder how much thought is actually put into your weak retorts. I understand that you believe that reading and absorbing thoughts of another brought you to an about face. Your expressions betray you in ways you may never fully comprehend.

I shall leave you to your service. You do seem to enjoy it so.
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#114170 - 08/27/17 12:15 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: LordBlyat]
I am and I will Offline
lurker


Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 1
I do not speak a professional English language!
I'm interested in how can I get into Satanism deeply! You know how to surrender yourself to the lucifer! how?

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#114171 - 08/27/17 12:21 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3996
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
So then the description precedes that which is described?
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#114187 - 08/28/17 07:50 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dark Magician Offline
member


Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
In a sense Dan - the described is constructed by the description.

There is no-thing outside of the text or discourse. There is only difference, repetition, eternal return and the dice throw.

Time and temporality precedes, undermines and explodes essence or substance - a "first principle" of my brand of Satanism.

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#114188 - 08/28/17 08:21 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Dark Magician Offline
member


Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
SIN3:

I shall leave you to your service. You do seem to enjoy it so.

Enjoy it???? Are you fucking mad?

I do not enjoy this at all. This is a fucking nightmare. I wish I had never gotten involved in any of this.

There is none of the usual assurance brought about by a belief in essence or substance, in teleology, in stability, in centre, in structure, in myth, in discourse. There's no-thing there for me.

In my world there is only the battle of magicians and their endless language games. If I'm damned lucky I can dwell in the beautiful clearing of particularity and difference for a while and get away from this endless GBM.

You know what go fuck yourself SIN3.

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#114190 - 08/28/17 09:19 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: DM
Enjoy it???? Are you fucking mad?


 Quote:
You know what go fuck yourself SIN3.


I see. I'm not here to educate you, or provide you with comfort. In all your articulations on this forum you simply aren't. It could be the reason that you have such a hard on for my opinions. If they drive you mad or make you angry, then you may start looking within. Until such time you have that fortitude, I shall be your scapegoat.
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#114201 - 08/29/17 04:31 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Dark Magician Offline
member


Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
My last post to you was frankly rude, as have a number of my other recent posts to users here. It was uncalled for.

I still don't understand how you can claim Satanism has an essence?

Even if you state that it is essentially antinomian praxis or walking the left hand path, before and prior to all naming, then surely you must define antinomian and the left hand in distinction to and against some Other named Nomiam or the right hand.

Antinomian or left hand is inextricably implicated in language games, culture, history, description etc. right from the start. And this is even before you have overloaded this type of praxis or doing with the signifier Satanism.

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#114202 - 08/29/17 08:41 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3996
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Then your Satanism is an artificiality. When you strive to match your deeds with words, you are no different than the good people 'of the book'.

You see, I see it the opposite way. There are no meaningful words that do not describe existent phenomenon. We call those words that do not, 'fantasy'.
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#114203 - 08/29/17 10:13 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 240
Loc: High Peak, UK
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
There are no meaningful words that do not describe existent phenomenon. We call those words that do not, 'fantasy'.


Struggling to understand; it's the double negative or even the triple negative that's thrown me.
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#114204 - 08/29/17 10:33 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: DM
I still don't understand how you can claim Satanism has an essence?


Try reading posts more than once. Think on them before responding.

Consider what references and vocabulary words 'do' rather than what they are.
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#114206 - 08/29/17 12:01 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
entropicmomentum Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Texas
What brought you to Gravitism?

For me, there was this book prescribed to me by a YouTuber that explained the different methods for jumping and falling.

To become like The Great Gravitas one must pull in more mass. This will induce a state of Orbitation, wherein you can achieve a greater feeling of Gravity Wellness.

Only then, can you return to the great singularity.
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#114208 - 08/29/17 12:14 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: when7iseleven]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3996
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
A double negative is when you apply more than one negative qualifier to the same subject in a sentence. Each negative is qualifying something different, the grammar is sound.

I have nothing better to do at the moment so I guess I can rephrase it more simply for you;

Phraseology that doesn't describe anything that actually exists is some bullshit.
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#114212 - 08/29/17 10:56 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dark Magician Offline
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Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
Dan Dread:

Then your Satanism is an artificiality. When you strive to match your deeds with words, you are no different than the good people 'of the book'.

You see, I see it the opposite way. There are no meaningful words that do not describe existent phenomenon. We call those words that do not, 'fantasy'.


‘There are no meaningful words that do not describe existent phenomena?’

Yes, yes indeed Dan – that is very true!

I have no access to the substance or essence of the phenomenon. All I have access to is the multiplicity of appearances and the differential relations between appearances, which describes the phenomenon. There is no in-itself or philosophical substance, which lies beneath the multiplicity of appearances and the differential relations within which these appearances are manifested to me.

The description constructs the described.

But moreover, my approach to the phenomenon is subject to my particular perspective, hence I am a supporter of perspectivism and hermeneutics generally.

And further, the phenomenon and the way I comport myself towards it is subject to temporality. The constant endless temporal flow undermines the timelessness of essence or substance as well.

For all these reasons I do not believe the phenomenon has an essence or a substance. This belief extends to my understanding of Satanism as well.

I’m not sure what you meant by: When you strive to match your deeds with you words, you are no different than the good people ‘of the book.’ Thank you for making the comment though.

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#114213 - 08/30/17 05:30 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Dark Magician Offline
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Yes, Dan is referring to words in his post. I don’t wish to avoid the reference to words.

I would like to enlarge the scope and refer to some thing called a signifier, which includes words within its frame.

A signifier, according to the traditional Saussurean definition is an acoustic/image i.e. a concrete phenomenon and the most basic element of meaning and hence culture.

A phenomenon, such as a signifier, acquires more specific meaning within a syntactical chain of differing elements i.e. differential relations subject to temporality.

The temporality and differential composition of the chain corrupts the purity of the meaning. Differing context produces differing meaning. The unfolding of the chain through time alters the meaning of the previous elements etc.

I think it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway: there is no necessary relation between a signifier and its phenomenal referent. There is not even a necessary relation between a signifier and the signified, which is purely mental. It is all cultural/historical.

In my view, essence, substance or presence within a phenomenon is a trick of language - its objectivity is a reification or fabrication brought about by an assumption that signifiers are stable, solid and contain a center. In my view it is a type of illusion. This diagnosis extends to language itself.

A signifier is a series of appearances or descriptions constituted by difference. Again the described is constructed by the description.

Again, this corruption extends into the meaning of Satan and Satanism at least as far as an essence or center goes.

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#114214 - 08/30/17 08:53 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Quote:
I’m not sure what you meant by: When you strive to match your deeds with you words, you are no different than the good people ‘of the book.’ Thank you for making the comment though


It's a horse cart thing, or even a lhp/rhp thing. You see, the 'people of the book'(one example) start with the written word and try to manifest that into reality. It's a top down approach where authority(ontological in this case I suppose) flows downwards from an authorative text, through it's handlers and down to the consumer. The words in that text do not necessarily reflect anything real, yet they are adopted as such. This is the cart pulling the horse.

Satanism, at least the meaningful stuff(a small percentage of what is claimed to be such), is a description of what is already existent. Nothing is being created, only observed. It is learned though doing, with the language used to describe it coming second, or sometimes not at all.

You are correct that given the scope of billions of years nothing is set, nothing has an essence. But at each individual moment in time, it does. Over the scope of lifetimes, of human history, of animal history, it does.

To me, striving to touch 'the real' is what it's all about, even while others construct and live in language game fantasy.
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#114215 - 08/30/17 10:14 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: DM
For all these reasons I do not believe the phenomenon has an essence or a substance. This belief extends to my understanding of Satanism as well.


Let me ask you this. Is being defiant an appearance? What about challenging information being taught and handed down through your family?

Is the description as important as the act of being defiant or challenging a self-positioned authority?

Say, your grandparents raised your own parents with the notion of the Tooth-fairy. What if your parents rejected this tradition deciding to raise you without notions of whimsy and superstition. Are they living up to a description or are acts being described?

These are more than just appearances, the 'essence' is in the deed.
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#114223 - 08/30/17 08:04 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
I have no access to the substance or essence of the phenomenon. All I have access to is the multiplicity of appearances and the differential relations between appearances, which describes the phenomenon. There is no in-itself or philosophical substance, which lies beneath the multiplicity of appearances and the differential relations within which these appearances are manifested to me.

The description constructs the described.


You're repeating this postructuralist shit as if it were a gospel while it's nothing else than pure mindfuck. You can go down the rabbit hole a thousand of times but to what end?

But hey, you've just made me recall those blissful times when I was a noob on my first year at the university. I forgot which course it was, literary criticism I think, but not sure of that. Suffice to say, we were discussing structuralism, then postructuralism and finally moved to deconstruction. So our teacher was standing there and giving a rant about the supposed tension between the signified and signifier, how unstable the dominance of the signified over the signifier is and how that order could easily be reversed. And I was sitting there, totally bewildered, and wondering what the fuck this guy is prattling about.

Then he was talking about nature/culture binary opposition and how it is generally thought that nature comes before culture. Let's reverse that order - he says - culture comes before nature.

Now that was the time when I couldn't stand this nonsense any longer and reacted like that frog in the picture:



I wasn't that rude but I said something like: But sir, how is that possible? You claim that culture precedes nature but what about the time when the humans were barely conscious and basically followed only their biological instincts? And what about the time when there were no humans?

He laughed and asked "You mean the time when the dinosaurs were roaming the Earth?" I don't remember the rest of his answer but it was a little bit in a joking manner. Still he thanked me for my bravery. \:\)

Coming back to the other side of the mirror... going down the rabbit hole may serve a purpose of challenging a fixed line of thinking. Generally, people accept many things as truth without even thinking about them till someone comes over and challenges it. Even if the challenge claim is bullshit, still it has served its purpose, it has made you think.

In a sense our language constructs the reality for us but if there was no language, would the reality stop existing? One may think the world revolves around one's consciousness but is that rabbit hole for real? Just because you feel you can't apprehend the essence or substance of the phenomena, does that mean that this substance doesn't exist?


Edited by Czereda (08/30/17 08:06 PM)
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#114225 - 09/01/17 03:47 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Dark Magician Offline
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Registered: 04/24/14
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I am fairly sure this is understood, but I thought I would state it explicitly at the start: I do not doubt the existence of the phenomenon – I can verify the existence or non-existence of the phenomenon empirically.

I simply do not believe in the essence, or the substance, or the in-itself of the phenomenon.

I am assuming you understand what I mean when I refer to essence, substance or the in-itself of the phenomenon?

Essence or substance is the absolute truth, underlying reality, or utterly fixed meaning of the phenomenon.

To determine the essence of the phenomenon is to determine the truth of the phenomenon universally and necessarily i.e. the essence is the truth of the phenomenon across all space and time, and it couldn’t possibly be otherwise.

Essence is hence outside of time as its constitution and validity does not change across time.

This is a fairly standard sort of definition of essence or substance in the philosophical tradition I think.

One needs to be careful when adopting a word like essence or substance and applying it to an action or series of actions. There is a problem when you appropriate a signifier like essence, which seems to fit so comfortably into the ontology of objects and use it to describe actions.

I thought I would unpack this a bit, as Dan and SIN have both referred to it. A sort of example to consider:

Someone or some group of people does something. They do A, B, C and D.

The actor/s and any audience all must agree on the meaning of what has taken place. There cannot be any deviation between the actor/s and any audience. Everybody must agree that A, B, C and D means such and such if they are to fix the meaning of the action essentially or substantially.

Moreover, any human being, at any time in the future, has to agree on the meaning of the action as well. There cannot be any deviation in the meaning, even a million years from now.

You can’t state that an action has an essence or a substance if there is any deviation or disagreement among the actor/s and the audience over the meaning of that action.

Does this make sense?

I believe each actor and each audience member is going to determine the meaning of an action from their own particular perspective, intention, desire, need, their own cultural background, value system, their own interpretative framework etc. etc.

I don’t think an action has an essence. It is an action A, B, C and D pure and simple, done for some reason or set of reasons and interpreted differently depending upon whatever relevant motivation is present at the time it is completed and/or interpreted.

Again, it seems to me that the actor/s and the audience are going to ascribe a meaning to that action based on something, such as intention, desire, learned values, perspective, interpretation etc.

A defiant action may actually be regarded as a sign of independence by someone else, or amusing by someone else, or relevant and useful by someone else, or boring and mundane by someone else etc.

Moreover, a child’s action may be interpreted by a parent as defiant at one point in time and then be looked upon as humorous, when discussed around the dinner table, at a family dinner 20 years later.

40 years later it may be regarded by a parent, on their death bed, with pride – my kid was always head-strong, independent and thought for themselves etc.

I would also add that the intention of the actor/s doesn’t really guarantee that an action acquires and maintains an essence or substance. I don’t think authorship gives one the privilege of defining the meaning of an action essentially or substantially.

To Anna, I like post-structuralism. It is the best critical tool ever placed in my hands. It is open to abuse and certainly parody though.

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#114226 - 09/01/17 08:43 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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Human nature is what it is, regardless of who agrees. Life behaves according to certain parameters, regardless of interpretation. To say that every single human has to agree upon these conditions to make them so is frankly, ridiculous.
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#114227 - 09/01/17 06:35 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
It's not what brought me to the Satanism forums, but the thing that I really like about Satanism and Satanists is that no one tries to convert you.

Although I'm not really a Satanist, I can come here and hang around, enjoy the conversations, learn shit about myself and quietly develop strategies to strengthen myself and improve my life, and no one gives a toss.

I don't know of another (religion) that is like that. Friends in other religions will eventually tell me that I should change something and they do so because they like me and are in genuine fear for my soul. Satanists don't give a shit.

Satanism sits back and lets me come to it...
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#114234 - 09/02/17 07:53 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: ShadowLover]
fiendish Offline
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Well then maybe we could change the topic to "what would bring you to Satanism".
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#114245 - 09/04/17 09:37 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
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The Event, A, B, C & D happened, it has an essence & is substantive. What the actors or observers of the event interpret it to be are irrelevant & unique to each of them individually.

If the Event is observed again in a thousand years it will still be substantive & the same event but will again be interpreted in more individual ways.

The Event is of itself & has essence.
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#114257 - 09/04/17 05:17 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: ShadowLover]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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Most here do not regard Satanism as a religion at all. It's more of an inborn perspective coupled with certain type of purposeful actions.

The sort that try to mold Satanism into the loaded narrative of religion are generally just more of the same crap as the others, and most here tend to recognize that straight away.

Thus the sort looking for that predetermined structure and unity(read, intellectually lazy people) tend not to stick around too long.

Aside from Aquino anyway...but he's selling not buying.
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#114258 - 09/05/17 06:23 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: when7iseleven]
Dark Magician Offline
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Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
when7iseleven:

The Event, A, B, C & D happened, it has an essence & is substantive. What the actors or observers of the event interpret it to be are irrelevant & unique to each of them individually.

If the Event is observed again in a thousand years it will still be substantive & the same event but will again be interpreted in more individual ways.

The Event is of itself & has essence.


Are you so sure you're right when it comes to this? Take a day or two and let me know if you still believe this. I will respond then.

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#114260 - 09/05/17 08:45 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: fiendish]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
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Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Most here do not regard Satanism as a religion at all.


Yeah, I'm aware of that. That is why I put the word in brackets. I wasn't sure what to write in its place. Philosophy perhaps? Lifestyle seems like such a flippant word these days...

What do people here call Satanism instead of calling it a religion?
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#114261 - 09/05/17 08:52 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: ShadowLover]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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I call it Satanism.
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#114262 - 09/05/17 09:09 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
Hahahahaha!

Satanism is a religion founded in 1966 by Anton Szandor LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, self-indulgence, and "eye for an eye" morality...


Oh irony.
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#114264 - 09/05/17 11:51 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
The UN-Religion?

I swear, the more people pull back layer after layer, the more they don't seem to understand. Even with Anton dumbing way down low.

If it's diminished to a philosophy, I wonder; what do you think philosophy is?
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#114265 - 09/05/17 03:49 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Dan_Dread Offline
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What irony? Is that supposed to be an authoritive statement or something? It surprises me not one bit that you see it that way.
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#114266 - 09/05/17 04:25 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
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What Satanism Is Not:

a) Satanism is not, nor can ever be, a religion, nor just a 'philosophy'. A religion means acceptance of authority, the rigid structure of a 'Church' or a 'Temple', and a unified dogma (with the consequent schisms and claims to ''authenticity''). The religious attitude is the antithesis of what Satanism really is - for Satanism is a way of living, a way of experiencing, in the raw, whereas religion abstracts, limits endeavor, behavior and moralizes. In short, a Satanist plunges into reality, without any supports (moral, psychic or human) whereas a religious person has that reality prescribed by dogma, authority and such like, and is supported by a `Church', its members and their attitudes. Satanism is an ecstatic affirmation of existence - a taking of existence into new and higher realms, as well as a plunge into existing darkness and the creation of new darkness.

b) Satanism cannot have anyone impose upon it any structure, authority, or institution of any kind by claiming a 'dark mandate' or some kind of 'revelation'. There can be no such thing as an, infernal mandate' of whatever kind because the only thing that really matters to Satanism is experience, its accumulation and the highly individualized learning that results from such experience.
-- Hysteron Proteron, ONA

Personally, I've always ascribed to the ONA's school of thought regarding Satanism.
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#114267 - 09/05/17 04:45 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Caladrius]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 153
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
What Satanism Is Not:

a) Satanism is not, nor can ever be, a religion, nor just a 'philosophy'. A religion means acceptance of authority, the rigid structure of a 'Church' or a 'Temple', and a unified dogma (with the consequent schisms and claims to ''authenticity''). The religious attitude is the antithesis of what Satanism really is - for Satanism is a way of living, a way of experiencing, in the raw, whereas religion abstracts, limits endeavor, behavior and moralizes. In short, a Satanist plunges into reality, without any supports (moral, psychic or human) whereas a religious person has that reality prescribed by dogma, authority and such like, and is supported by a `Church', its members and their attitudes. Satanism is an ecstatic affirmation of existence - a taking of existence into new and higher realms, as well as a plunge into existing darkness and the creation of new darkness.

b) Satanism cannot have anyone impose upon it any structure, authority, or institution of any kind by claiming a 'dark mandate' or some kind of 'revelation'. There can be no such thing as an, infernal mandate' of whatever kind because the only thing that really matters to Satanism is experience, its accumulation and the highly individualized learning that results from such experience.
-- Hysteron Proteron, ONA

Personally, I've always ascribed to the ONA's school of thought regarding Satanism.


Have you? I do believe you just quoted a text, and attributed that text to the ONA. Passing down traditions, texts, and teachings received via other methods than the written word, is "religion". Religion doesn't have to mean only the codification of laws, morality guidelines, required practices and beliefs, and behavioral norms. It can be the preservation of traditions, and passing them on. Like citing a text.

I'm with "creepless Crowley" on this one.
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#114268 - 09/05/17 04:48 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
What irony? Is that supposed to be an authoritive statement or something? It surprises me not one bit that you see it that way.


No. It's because your post linked to that definition. Whenever one mentions Satanism here, it links to the encyclopedia definition. The same goes for a couple of other words. As it was in response to Shadowlover's post about Satanism being a religion or not, I called it ironic. That's all. No need to make a fuss about it.
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#114269 - 09/05/17 04:55 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Kori Houghton]
Bartho LeMule Offline
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Registered: 10/13/13
Posts: 110
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
It can be the preservation of traditions, and passing them on. Like citing a text.


In some parts of the world what you describe - that is, a vehicle for tradition, to be passed down - is called Culture.

It's too broad a definition for "religion" for someone like myself.

According to such a broad definition the following would be religions:

1. Freemasonry,
2. Skater subculture
3. College, and the traditions associated with such.
4. The government, since it's procedures are steeped in tradition passed down from generation to generation.
5. The local Mexican restaurant, since it passes age old family secret recipies down from generation to generation.

If we're using such a broad definition, I would agree with you.


Edited by Bartho LeMule (09/05/17 04:56 PM)

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#114270 - 09/05/17 05:01 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3996
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Oh that. If there is irony it's that the people that authored that ridiculous 'encyclopedia' turned to greener pastures some time ago.
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#114271 - 09/05/17 05:41 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Bartho LeMule]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
Oh well, you have a belief in the reality beyond, the supernatural world, dark gods. There is elaborate mythos and stories that illustrate the ethics. There are rituals, rites of passage, aural tradition (supposedly) and ... moral teachings unless one wishes to delude oneself that all those stories about loyalty, honor and gallantry to ladies have nothing to do with morality. Add to that the prevailing dogmatic attitude and hero worship (Ave Papa Myatt) and voila you have a religion. Perhaps, not as popular as Christianity but that piece of instruction re troo Satanism, part of which you quoted could compete nicely with the Ten Commandments.

Edited by Czereda (09/05/17 05:47 PM)
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#114272 - 09/06/17 03:02 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 240
Loc: High Peak, UK
Am I sure.............can I be sure of anything?

As Descartes said in his pre-abridged version "I think therefore I could very possibly be but I've no idea about any other"

Having said that I'm happy to continue on the basis of what I said previously.
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#114273 - 09/06/17 11:21 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
This is precisely why that 'Encyclopedia Project' was problematic and pretty much abandoned. Even if the links show up, doesn't mean individual users are in agreement with the linked definition.

I suppose, if a user cared enough to prevent it; they could put forth an effort to ensure the link isn't shared.

*Satan-ism as it were. If a person ascribes to something they call 'Satan-ism', they'd be hard pressed to convince me that's what it really is.
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#114274 - 09/06/17 07:00 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
If it's diminished to a philosophy, I wonder; what do you think philosophy is?


Philosophy is an idea... What's theory promotes a particular path to reach a certain, known or not known, destination.

But I'm not diminishing anything. I asked what word, or umbrella, people here put Satanism under.

Perhaps Satanism is the umbrella and has a context of its own? If that is the case I would then ask what that context is and what falls under that umbrella?


Edited by ShadowLover (09/06/17 07:01 PM)
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#114279 - 09/07/17 11:24 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: SL
Philosophy is an idea... What's theory promotes a particular path to reach a certain, known or not known, destination.


Philosophy is a method for seeking answers, it doesn't provide them. That's not the intent of any given philosophy.

 Quote:
I asked what word, or umbrella, people here put Satanism under.


That was understood. I offer that it's not a thing, it's an action.

The context is blatant. It's understood in the doing. To treat it as a thing, isn't it. It doesn't matter if that thing is an answer provider, religion, or 'lifestyle'.
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#114284 - 09/08/17 05:57 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: when7iseleven]
Dark Magician Offline
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Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
when7iseleven:

The Event, A, B, C & D happened, it has an essence & is substantive. What the actors or observers of the event interpret it to be are irrelevant & unique to each of them individually.

If the Event is observed again in a thousand years it will still be substantive & the same event but will again be interpreted in more individual ways.

The Event is of itself & has essence.

Thanks for your post.

I think I might address this issue in two posts. This will be the first. The next will come in another day or two.

What is the essence or substance of an action, or a series of actions?

Here is a mundane example: I am thirsty, so I have a drink of water.

What is the essence or substance of this series of actions?

Surely the essence or substance of I am thirsty, so I have a drink of water is I am thirsty, so I have a drink of water.

Here is another mundane example: I need to go to the toilet, so I go to the toilet.

Surely the essence or substance of I need to go to the toilet, so I go to the toilet is I need to go to the toilet, so I go to the toilet.

In both cases the essence or substance of the actions described are tautological in relation to the actions undertaken. The essence of the action is the same as the action - it is a tautology.

But is a tautology really the disclosure of the essence or substance of some thing?

What are the characteristics of this tautological relationship between essence or substance and the action, from the point of view of the audience and the actor?

One is privy to a successive set of appearances, from a particular perspective, if you are an audience member.

It is the succession of appearances and the audience member’s capacity to interpret the succession of appearances from their particular perspective and draw a meaningful conclusion which constitutes their perception of the essence or substance of a series of actions. Does this follow?

Again, one is just stating that the successive appearances of an action - as they progress over time - are the essence or substance of that action. Basically, one is still just dealing with appearances: the tautology doesn’t disclose the essence or substance. It is a repetition of the appearances of an action. Does this make sense?

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#114285 - 09/08/17 08:50 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 468
It doesn't make any sense at all. In any case, the event is observed and manipulated , yet cannot be distorted - in any case you can call manipulation an event - and it is. Thus, the event is like a mirage , illusive and abstract, yet gaining existence through your own existence. Imagine you don't exist, the event wouldn't exist either. I mean, how common do you think is needing to drink some water or go to the toilet? Common enough as to use it as an example. Yet, its conventionality makes it banal. When you usually meet people, you do not ask them when do they go to the toilet, nor how often they drink water. Yet, these are events, with the exact same significance as any other event. I can discern a qualitative measure of events, maybe as a gesture to old friends, or as a pile of misconceptions. Still, the quantative measure of events remains untouched. In a way, you cannot measure actions, thus making any review of actions degrading the actions themselves.
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#114306 - 09/11/17 03:45 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 240
Loc: High Peak, UK
Your view of reality is how you might regard a painting by Monet or Renoir; from twenty feet away everyone can agree that yes, that's a nice painting of a flower. What that means to each observer & the emotions it promotes are subjective so every description of the picture will be different. Stand five feet way from the painting & instead of firm lines & contours, it will become more a flow of patterns & colours. The scene can still be discerned from the paining, but it's not the definitive description of twenty feet away.

But stand with your nose pressed up to the painting & the scene is gone. What you will see is the individual dab, dab of the artists brush, each individually inconsequential & impossible to interpret the end result from. This is the doing of the painting, this is the essence of the painting, this is eternal & oblivious to any description observers may want to put on it.

From the way you write your mundane examples they appear to be precisely that, but both belie the thousands of processes within you body to "simply" get to the point of realising your thirsty & navigating to quench that thirst; here is the substance of the event.
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Diamond life, lover boy, minimum waste, maximum joy

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#114345 - 09/14/17 07:47 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: when7iseleven]
Dark Magician Offline
member


Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 148
Thank you again for your post.

I think you have identified the pertinent point with your latest post. An action is a complex bio-mechanical and psychological process i.e. it is subject to temporality and is constituted by differential elements.

An action, or series of actions, is not an object or a “thing.”

Using a word like essence or substance, as I have said before, is to appropriate language from the ontology of objects and apply it to action or actions. Again, it is to ascribe the character of a thing or object to actions or actions.

Using a word like essence or substance to describe a complex temporally underpinned bio-mechanical and psychological process like an action or series of actions is inappropriate and misleading in my view.

But let’s cut to the chase. I am going to state my thesis as concisely as possible.

There is no necessary connection a priori between any action or set of actions and the signifier Satanism.

The application of the signifier Satanism to any action is a conventional and cultural act, since the signifier Satanism doesn’t exist outside of convention and culture and because no action has an essence, nor does the signifier Satanism have an essence either.

The described is constructed by the description.

In my view, evaluating actions and then categorizing those actions as Satanic or not is not the philosophically primary goal.

The goal for me, as far as MY brand of Satanism goes, is to apprehend and appreciate the implied weltanschauung of Satan. Praxis comes about as a result of that apprehension and appreciation.

I don’t necessarily believe that the weltanschauung of Satan can be discerned in the writings of Redbeard or even Stirner. Rather Satan’s weltanschauung is characterized by alterity, interpretation, perspective, hermeneutics and ontological difference.

My brand of Satanism could be construed as a post-structuralist one or even a postmodern one - not in the sense of Jason’s King’s brand, which is a post-LaVeyan Satanism, but rather a Satanism which is very much closer to a genuine Postmodernism.

I definitely think this is a good approach. I support anybody who comes here to express a different point of view. The Club constantly needs fresh perspectives to enrich and invigorate the contact here. The career types, online experts and dinosaurs need to adjust.

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#114357 - 09/17/17 07:07 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 468
There is not necessary a priori connection among actions, therefore exists an a posteriori relation which is de facto interpreted as Satanic. Ipso facto the Satanic worldview becomes the corpus delicti of such interpretations.
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Medulla oblongata

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#114368 - 09/18/17 09:37 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Dark Magician]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 240
Loc: High Peak, UK
 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician
An action, or series of actions, is not an object or a “thing.”


Therein lies the problem, there are no "things" there are only events.

In an infinite Universe the concepts of time, size & distance are meaningless without a point of reference; your/my/our consciences deceive us into believing we are that point of reference, enabling us to build a solid world of thingness out of a reality of interwoven phenomena.

The essence is always in the event, the substance is contained in the verbal tomfoolery you attempt to describe something by, but it is transient; when you die the description will die.

The event is the only thing eternal.
_________________________
Diamond life, lover boy, minimum waste, maximum joy

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#117331 - 10/30/18 06:32 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: LordBlyat]
3KIRHS Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 2
I'm new here, and still in the process of reading and understanding the Satanic Bible.

It was black metal music that brought me to Satanism. Black metal bands since Bathory relate themselves to Satanic images a lot. Being a metalhead, I read some books about black metal history, and learned about the occult.
I have to admit that I started looking into Satanism simply because that I think it's new and cool to me in the first place. However when I read the Satanic Bible I found that I'd been following some of those rules myself.

Still learning about Satanism, I can't call myself a Satanist yet. Anyways I've been atheistic and a missionary called me a nihilist(but I'm not) after a failed preach lol.

[EDIT] I didn't mean to reply to LordBlyat. I must clicked at something by mistake. However I can't edit that , sorry.


Edited by 3KIRHS (10/30/18 06:38 AM)

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#117332 - 10/30/18 12:14 PM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: 3KIRHS]
Zenarith Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 29
Loc: Halifax, NS, Canada

I understood for quite awhile the secret life of Satanism through my own eyes... I understood the enemies of God.

I dealt with struggles from Satin and Devils and Demons in Hell...

I'm a rare case... At a point very recently, a Satanic Spirit came to me, and offered to protect me from my Satanic Enemies if I chose to worship Satin faithfully.

Since then, my fashion has changed and I'm reading the Satanic Bible...

Since I got my Satanic Medallion to show my faith I have had no issues with the Devils in Hell...

I am now a practising Satanist, and although my enemies came from the side I'm on, a Satanist doesn't worship every form of Satin, just the Satin they choose...

I choose to worship myself in some ways. And I am studying Satanism, Mythology, and Occult to improve my knowledge in this path.

That's my story of why I joined.



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#117345 - 10/31/18 11:30 AM Re: what brought you to satanism? [Re: Zenarith]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
You say you worship Satan, yet you can't even spell his damned name correctly. For that offence alone you deserve to be sacrificed at your local cementary. Since today is Halloween, I would watch out if I were you.
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Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

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