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#10921 - 08/23/08 09:00 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: VictorGrigorii]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Victor may be the only one yet who gets it.

Marriage is a religious ceremony. Now, do I really need to explain to a group of satanists the function of ceremony?

People marry each other. It is an agreement - a contract. States, govts, and churches can approve/endorse such unions, but ultimately people marry each other in presence of their friends, family, and community.

Again, as to 'gay rights' what rights are they being denied?
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#10941 - 08/23/08 01:38 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Fist]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"It is an agreement - a contract. States, govts, and churches can approve/endorse such unions, but ultimately people marry each other in presence of their friends, family, and community."

As I said Before:

If anything the marriage bit is only important in the event your partner dies.
If no marriage then legally the dead partners family can come in and take the kids and the house and throw you out cause there might be nothing tieing you to anything.

Also if the gay marriage is not recoginized then no health insurance or social security benefits either.

Morgan
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#11315 - 09/09/08 02:08 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Dimitri]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
The only kind of gay people or lesbian people that annoy me are those who are walking in the gay pride parade almost naked with pink feathers in their asses.. It can really get me mad. Yes, you are gay, yes you are pride of it; JUST ACT NORMAL!


Dude, I totally agree with this. Being gay is no more a sexual orientation but a fashion to some of them, and I find it ridiculous. Well, people can do whatever they want, but it looks unsafe to me.

Sometimes you may tell that being an immigrant in a country is also more than an origin, it becomes a culture. But immigrants have an original culture from their original country and there's nothing weird in the fact they want to keep it, whether they also embrace their new country's culture or not... cosmopolitanism is OK with all the respect of each other etc.

But gay people don't have an original culture. Is it worth it creating one (probably that kind of gay people want to take a "revenge" against idiots who oppress them or something like that), which will at last keep them apart of straight people ? I don't know if it's a good solution for everyone to live together in order.

PS : I feel the need to precise I don't give a damn about people's sexual orientation (same about people's origins or skin color or whatever). I already had myself a gay experience when I was younger, even if now I know I'm straight ;\)

PS 2 : One thing I'm wondering is about having children adopted by gay couples... I can't choose my mind about it. What do you guys think ?
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#11448 - 09/13/08 02:11 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Impius]
ShadowWalker Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Yokosuka, Japan
I have no problems with homosexuals, or bisexuals. Whether it is a choice, or it is natural I do not know nor do I really care. As for does it fit into Satanism, well of course it does they(homosexuals) are living life the way they want regardless of whether or not someone agrees with it. They are doing what makes them happy. As for flamers, while they are annoying, so are people that fit into any particular stereotype and do so just because it gets them attention.
I believe that gay couples are looking for something more than a civil union only due to the fact that it is a ceremonial matter. Even though they get most or all of the rights, depending on the state, of a marriage through civil union. They want more than just the legal documentation that they are "together." As Fist said marriage is a ceremony, and I believe that that is what homosexual couples feel is missing in their "culture." They want this ceremony, whether or not it has any difference as compared to a civil union. It is this psychodrama for them and their family to partake in. A way for them to show that they truly are in love with one another. It may not make a difference to us whether or not they get married or partake in a civil union, but it does to them. I say let them, but who am I to judge?
As for the few people who said that they don't like being hit on by gay guys; if you have an issue with it or it makes you uncomfortable then how much effort does it really take to say "no, thanks" or even "I'm straight." I have had several gay guys hit on me, and I found that if you tell them you are straight or even no thank you, they leave. Unlike the proverbial guy at the bar, who continuosly hits on a woman even after she has blatantly turned him down.
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#11450 - 09/13/08 06:11 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Morgan]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Again, homosexuals are not denied any legal rights. They can enter any contract they wish. A simple living will and power of attorney can actually confir more rights to the other partner than a simple marriage can.

Again and again I will ask this, what rights do homosexuals not enjoy in the US?

 Quote:
Also if the gay marriage is not recoginized then no health insurance or social security benefits either.


Ahhhh, now we may be getting to the core of the matter.....

So are we then just looking for a pay day?
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#11455 - 09/14/08 02:40 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Fist]
ShadowWalker Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Yokosuka, Japan
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Again, homosexuals are not denied any legal rights. They can enter any contract they wish. A simple living will and power of attorney can actually confir more rights to the other partner than a simple marriage can.

Again and again I will ask this, what rights do homosexuals not enjoy in the US?

 Quote:
Also if the gay marriage is not recoginized then no health insurance or social security benefits either.


Ahhhh, now we may be getting to the core of the matter.....

So are we then just looking for a pay day?


I would have to agree with you, to me it would seem that what is the most important part of this ceremony called marriage, ultimately can be boiled down to the issue of money. There is always a base root to every issue political or religious, and a lot of time it boils down to money.
Homosexuals aren't denied any rights in the US in the states that allow civil union or marriage, but not all of the states allow civil unions. In fact only a handful of them do, so this may be how this whole gay marriage thing can be settled. If every state would just except the civil union of a homosexual couple. They don't need to make it a "marriage" a civil union would suffice, as it carries all the weight of a marriage, save for the ceremony itself.
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#11944 - 09/28/08 11:08 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: ShadowWalker]
lux Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
do satanists get married?

Interesting, obviously there can be no right to marriage for homosexuals within the Catholic Church... perhaps they may in some liberal wishy washy try to please man instead of God ...i.e. as LaVey points out.. Satanist "Christian" church

but could they get married in a satanist church?

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#11980 - 09/29/08 01:39 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: lux]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Have you read The Satanic Bible yet? Honestly, you need to go away for a while until you have done your homework.
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#12463 - 10/10/08 04:28 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: VictorGrigorii]
DieDieMyDarling Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 3
Loc: england
I think homosexuality is perfectly acceptable , i'm hetrosexual but i dont see anything wrong with it and i think people who have a problem with it are probobly just scared of the fact that they have homosexual urges themselves.
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#14020 - 11/07/08 09:14 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: VictorGrigorii]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
So, it is now a matter of law.

The widely gay friendly California now has a legal definition of marriage that supports the historical ideas of marriage. The gay friendly Florida, and not so gay friendly Arizona passed similar legislation.

Again, I will point out that ancient Greece was the most gay friendly society in history and there was not even the slightest concept of homosexual marriage.

Also, since we all stirred up about race at the moment. Would anyone care to comment on how the large Black election turn out affected the marriage propositions?
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#14021 - 11/07/08 10:24 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Fist]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Not to mention the Hispanic bloc. They are very conservative in regards to traditional marriage, and they have such a large presence in Florida and California. It was a combination of them, blacks and conservative whites that put those amendments into their respective states' constitution.
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#14022 - 11/07/08 10:43 AM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Fist]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I disagree with the fact that there was no concept of homosexual marriage in ancient Greece.
First, marriage was pretty simplistic in those days. You both decide to choose the other and act like such and you're a married couple. They didn't have all that trivial shit we have nowdays. The ceremony was fairly simple. I think daddy-in-law had to agree but if you'd have enough blingbling or a nice position, that wouldn't be a problem.

If you'd check the same-sex marriages you'd notice that they were idential. You can debate whether it really was a marriage or not but if it looks like a marriage and smells like a marriage, it's pretty damn possible it is a marriage.

Anyways, I do think marriage as we know it is a rather retarded concept. There are much better options that tend more to reality and aren't still stuck in the forever phase. I also see very little reason why gay people want to marry. Hell, not for the religious tradition coz they consider them sinners and the legal part can be solved in a different manner. Maybe it's the fairy tale aspect, I don't know. Personally I could care less whom or how many wear the dress.

I'm not familiar enough with the concept of homosexuality in the black part of America but I assume they tend to find it almost as popular as the muslim population here. So I assume they won't vote for 'all things equal'.

D.

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#14024 - 11/07/08 12:42 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I tend to believe along the lines of the Bachman-Turner Overdrive Song, YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET. "Any love is good love."

It really doesn't matter to me what gets someone off in the night, so long as I'm only involved if I want to be, and that their choice of pleasure doesn't hinder me from exploring mine. I see no reason that the same rights afforded heterosexuals can't be afforded to same-sex unions, simply because the concept of marriage is not sanctified as specifically religious in nature. At its root, it's an economic contract with subsequent social association, and always has been.

Marriage as we know it today simply is the financial bonding of two people together. Love plays a part in it for sure, but leagally bound, the two must be legally separated, over and above any religious constructs to allow equity of financial holdings, be it a house, money or other monetarilly valuable commodity. After this, the emotional separations concerning children, pets, etc. are tackled... but even with children, there's concern for the contractual obligations of support, and this then is the only significant difference between a "gay" or "straight" marriage, unless adoption is involved.

Hell, let 'em get married. Let them share equally in the joys and pains of "til death do us part." Sometimes even with straight people, death is a viable option!

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#14027 - 11/07/08 01:42 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Jake999]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
The problem has always been the definition of marriage. Just what is a marriage? Originally, marriage was used to formalize the partners responsible their offspring.

It is worth noting that in the Abrahamic religions, the church does not marry people. People marry each other in front of their community. The religious officer only exists to 'bless' the union and to give the union greater weight in the eyes of the community.

Our more secular modern culture does, in fact, marry people. A marriage is not valid in the eyes of the State unless the couple is granted a govt marriage licence.

Once govt is involved in the marriage industry, govt MUST define marriage in order to properly regulate it. At the moment, it would seem that the people have spoken.
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#14030 - 11/07/08 02:22 PM Re: homosexuality and gay rights [Re: Fist]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Down here you can marry in front of whatever church or cult you like, nothing is official. You need to be married by an 'official' of the state, mostly the town mayor to be married in the eyes of the state. So the state defines what a marriage is indeed. The ones wanting the glamour wedding, or what we call the church wedding here, have to marry twice.

If you look around in societies; you'll notice that all the minorities 'protected' by all those spiffy laws are often the ones not really being bothered about following those laws themselves when it comes to the next minority.

D.

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