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#108711 - 09/15/16 12:36 PM ONA Hurt Your Feelings?
Persona non grata Offline
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Posts: 469
ONA has obviously hurt the satanic communities feelings. Ever notice how reactionary everyone is to the mere mention of ONA? Any mention of ONA is labeled as fanboyism, yet not those obscure divisions of heterodox philosophy who were far less influential than ONA? How does one justify such reactionary behavior, as telling another what their beliefs about ONA are, simply because they have mentioned ONA. Why not simply ask them what they believe. It would seem that ONA has become a taboo in the satanic community, which is interesting, as satanist seem to pride themselves on 'being over' or 'having surpassed' nomian valuations and social influence. Yet, the mere mention of ONA invokes childish, reactionary, and rather hypocritical outburst from several satanist, all requesting that you fall back in line, and behave as satanically expected, as satanist would approve, and as satanist accept. Isn't that interesting? ONA seems to have violated the satanic sensibility.
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#108714 - 09/15/16 12:46 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Persona non grata]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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It seems to me that it is your sensitivities that are affected by the fact that most people here simply do not care about ONA at all.
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#108723 - 09/15/16 03:38 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Persona non grata]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
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There was this kid in high school who only talked about birds. That's all he did ever. Regardless of what the conversation called for, it was his only interest in life and all he could bring himself to talk about. Period. Naturally, everyone made fun of him relentlessly because of his autistic obsession with birds, but for the life of him he could not understand why everyone hated birds so much.

*There's an analogy here... pause a sec to mull it over if you need to

Here's something you might find interesting about the ONA. Were I never to have logged on to this site that all of 25 people tops regularly participate in, I would've never heard of it at all. That's the "real world" scope of the thing. All I have to say about it is:

1) They write a lot.
2) They have a such a distinct vernacular that it is borderline unfucking readable.
and
3) Onanism is an honest-to-goodness real word, and that makes me chuckle.

I don't think I missed anything else terribly important aside from that. Off-handedly it screams LARP / TINAG / WOT. Everything else that you seem to be reading into it must be this "conformation bias" you keep mentioning. For most people, beyond that, they just don't care - it's really not that important. "you'll stop worrying about what everyone thinks of you when you realize how seldom they do"

Now, what's really cool - a nifty concept you might want to get some of that there book learnin' on is "emergence".

Without a handle on this concept, you're liable to think some pretty fucking retarded things like "popular music comes about democratically by sampling what everyone likes and listens to" or "that a person can speak of something like the ONA, nomians, kindred, or whatever as if they were all actual things unto themselves" or "that by mocking some of its goofier mules I'm mocking it, somehow"

'Point is, that's just not how emergent systems work: you can't hide behind a TLA, dude. You're just hilariously mock-worthy in and of yourself - like that kid in high school with his obsession with birds, unable to comprehend that we're making fun of him not birds. *Potentially, you might make for someone, a real case study in the down-sides of open source with respect to brand integrity, but___ ya' know: not my circus; not my monkeys.
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#108728 - 09/15/16 05:33 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Persona non grata]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: N913
ONA has obviously hurt the satanic communities feelings.


No. I can choose to read ONA walls of text any time I wish to. This forum, however, is geared toward Satanism.

 Originally Posted By: N913
Ever notice how reactionary everyone is to the mere mention of ONA? Any mention of ONA is labeled as fanboyism, yet not those obscure divisions of heterodox philosophy who were far less influential than ONA? How does one justify such reactionary behavior, as telling another what their beliefs about ONA are, simply because they have mentioned ONA.


You know where you are and you're not an innocent lamb. You sling your share of mud. Know thyself and when you're here, know your audience.

 Originally Posted By: N913
Why not simply ask them what they believe.

ONA people are not shy about sharing. It's not a mystery.


 Originally Posted By: N913
It would seem that ONA has become a taboo in the satanic community, which is interesting, as satanist seem to pride themselves on 'being over' or 'having surpassed' nomian valuations and social influence.


It's not taboo and it's a matter of interest to many. I've done quite a bit of reading/research myself. You're being a bit haughty in assuming that people haven't looked into it/had their fill of it.

 Originally Posted By: N913
Yet, the mere mention of ONA invokes childish, reactionary, and rather hypocritical outburst from several satanist, all requesting that you fall back in line, and behave as satanically expected, as satanist would approve, and as satanist accept. Isn't that interesting? ONA seems to have violated the satanic sensibility.


Those are your perceptions. If you missed the memo, Satanists generally don't have a code of conduct they they expect people to adhere to.

Honestly, if you're getting a reaction like this you might want to look at the image you're projecting. I see that you come here semi often and it's mostly always to repost an article you've posted elsewhere. That's generally verboten, but the mods let it fly as we 'know' you. Other than that, you consistently talk about how Satanism is stupid and how the forum sucks and, by implication, how stupid it is to remain here.

In other words, maybe it's NOT the content you offer, but something else that earns you the responses that you garner. Perhaps the whole of your experience here is illustrative of the fact that most simply aren't that interested in ONA and that the forum proper has hurt YOUR feelings.
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#108737 - 09/15/16 06:13 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Persona non grata]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
As Antikarmatomic wrote, no one is attacking the ONA but the nonsense that you posted. I already explained what nonsense that was in Encyclopedia Project so I'm not going to repeat myself.

Obviously, what I posted about fanboys struck a nerve with you. It's the secret of Polichinelle that the ONA has a narrow inner circle of whacky "adepts" who know each other personally and are directly connected to the founders/the Old Guards. Those who are outside of the clique are, using Canis' metaphor, lab ratties who are regularly fed with propaganda crap and subjected to the behavioral therapy although they hardly ever realize that and, instead, they keep deluding themselves that they are the "initiates."

Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a hobby, with studying the philosophy, trying to put it in practice, living by it, publishing books about it or blogging about it. Whatever floats you boat and whatever boosts your intellect and imagination or improves the quality of your life. There are some gems of insight in the ONA MSS too. The drawback is that being outside of the clique, you are not privy to the people's shenanigans, their motivations and mutual conflicts. That alone makes you susceptible to whatever bullshit they come up with.

It's even worse when you are socially inept and can't really say who is your friend and who isn't. People aren't that different from animals and, if you see that some other monkeys either show you contempt or/and lie to you permanently or try to manipulate you or try to butter you up then it's a clear sign that you and them are not sitting in the same tree.

But hey, the lie is better, isn't it?

Ha! I've just logged into WordPress and saw this:




Edited by Czereda (09/15/16 06:30 PM)
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#108738 - 09/15/16 06:15 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1159
Loc: San Diego, CA
You never know, he could just be perpetuating it for the response it generates. The "All press is..." thingy. Sort of like making oneself a piñata as a joke that is only funny to a limited number of people.

I don't think the dude lacks "self awareness", because if he did that would just be sad. What may seem like another japey follower could be a nail that knows how to draw the hammer...

Edit* Though myself speaking of self awareness is a stone thrown in a glass house. Thanks satanic protectors of crocodile tears!


Edited by CanisMachina42 (09/15/16 06:26 PM)
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#108740 - 09/15/16 07:02 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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"All press is..."

Yeah. It must be true because it's a saying I, too, have heard a lot.

No one who's ever stopped to think about that insipid platitude for more than 2 seconds actually believes it.

 Originally Posted By: CM
What may seem like another japey follower could be a nail that knows how to draw the hammer

If by draw the hammer you mean "start a topic to type about" then yeah, probably. The game plays itself. *shrugs*
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#108741 - 09/15/16 07:32 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Persona non grata]
Enantiodromia Offline
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Registered: 12/16/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Germanistan
https://sinisterpolemics.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/satanic-orthodoxy/



Not quite sure what to say about that, but it certainly is kind of entertaining.
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#108744 - 09/15/16 09:04 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Enantiodromia]
antikarmatomic Offline
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On a few levels.

I got up to here:

"Thus we might well ask these orthodox self-described (mostly male) ‘satanists’ to rationally comment on O9A Esoteric Chant, or on the Star Game, or on why the muliebral virtue of empathy, and women and Sapphic sorcery in general, are part of the foundations of the O9A."

That's an easy one:ομοφυλόφιλος

I'd elaborate but I have to go grocery shopping and there's a ton of foods there that I must first do a scholarly critique of before deciding not to buy. \:\/
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#108745 - 09/15/16 09:26 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
Man that made me chortle.

I was laughing so much. The movie is too funny.

But I see you learned some Greek. \:\)

On a more serious note, I think these people might be either some retired scholars or academic lecturers and try writing some of their more serious blogs (I don't mean the one linked here) according to the academic standards hoping that some professor will read that and write about their order. And sure some did write although there was a disappointment that they did inaccurate research using some misleading internet articles, not bothering to dig deeper because they didn't care enough.

The ONA is a fringe group and Satanic subculture itself is very small so what did they really expect?
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#108746 - 09/15/16 09:46 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 509
Perhaps it is not ONA that has left a bad taste in the mouth of Satanism, but rather the mindless renegade 'movements' (O9A) that hide behind the Sinister Current's teachings?

Edited by Oxus (09/15/16 09:46 PM)

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#108748 - 09/16/16 12:30 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Oxus]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: OX
Perhaps it is not ONA that has left a bad taste in the mouth of Satanism, but rather the mindless renegade 'movements' (O9A) that hide behind the Sinister Current's teachings? 

Basically. Seriously, not all press is good press. The OP just managed to take a moderately interesting thing and reaffirm how totally unappetizing it truly is. I’ve never actually tried crack before, but just seeing a few crack heads out and about in their natural habitat is enough for me to conclude that crack is on-the-whole a pretty whack scene. No scholarly research is at all required on my part.

“What’s that guy on?” “ONA” “I see. Poor guy, that shit must put holes in your brain”

Unless the goal is just to see what effect the brand has on whichever socially retarded subjects happen to take the ball and awkwardly try to run with it; In which case it falls into the category of “neat experiment, no I would not like to participate”.
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#108754 - 09/16/16 09:53 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Persona non grata]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3841
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Ok, here's the thing about ONA, at least as it has existed in the internet age(and probably before): it works on two levels.

The first level, or outer level, is a matter of replication and propagation. On this level exists things like NAOS, the BBOS, inciteful concepts such as culling and reichsfolk, promises of a new type of person or a new type of society. These things are 'hooks' or mindfucks, and these concepts are often mutually exclusive to each other so as to cast the widest possible net.

The second level is the real goods - the engineering of these hooks to get as many people as possible talking about these concepts to keep ONA on people's lips. In that they have been not without their successes

The beauty and power of the thing lay in the latter rather than the former, but very few emerge from the other side of the labyrinth.
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#108758 - 09/16/16 12:55 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
The first level, or outer level, is a matter of replication and propagation. On this level exists things like NAOS, the BBOS, inciteful concepts such as culling and reichsfolk, promises of a new type of person or a new type of society. These things are 'hooks' or mindfucks, and these concepts are often mutually exclusive to each other so as to cast the widest possible net.

The second level is the real goods - the engineering of these hooks to get as many people as possible talking about these concepts to keep ONA on people's lips.


Someone from ABG Lodge (probably Ms Zorya but I'm not sure) wrote an essay about those two layers of the O9A. You might have even seen it. Anyway, here it is if anyone is interested:

Not in the name of the ONA

The sub-chapter "Double O9A Strata"

It describes two layers of the Order. The outer circle is everyone influenced and inspired by the MSS, people setting up their own nexions or just initiating themselves and trying to put the ONA "teachings" into practice. This outer circle, the so-called Vindexian O9A, simply is there to realize the exoteric aims of the Order; subversion, insight roles, setting up the temples or nexions, propagating the MSS etc. The Inner Circle (the esoteric, Falciferian O9A) is a reclusive and small group of adepts who know each other personally outside of the internet and were guided by the Old Guards, and they in turn guide other initiates. These are the folks that are in the know and are pulling the strings.

The problem with those self-initiated and self-proclaimed fandom is that they are, like outsiders, basically in the dark, totally clueless about what is going on behind the stage, about people's motivations, about the MSS that have not yet been published, about who is who and what is crap and what is not crap. They have to sort it out for themselves, which is a laborious and time consuming process. Not being privy to what the people are up to alone makes one susceptible to their bullshit, which is there not so much to make the fans talk about the ONA as to make them behave in a desired way. And year by year there is more and more pooh.

This caught my attention:

However, during the years it had become apparent that at times some are abusing aforementioned esoteric purpose of contradictions and Labyrinthos just to cover up their personal mistakes or to explain away some unintended outcomes.

The bulldogs fighting under the carpet. Let's say that "bitch" Jall has pissed me off so much that I'm now going to screw her. I will fabricate a letter where she announces herself to be an outer representative and that I give her my blessing. That will be enough for the "free thinking" fanboys (like *cough cough* Darryl) to jump on her and tear the bitch to shreds.

Or let's say that this "stuck up jerk" Hollow stirs up shit too much. So I will talk shit about him on every nook of the internet while pretending that I'm explaining the O9A.

Meanwhile, the jackasses will read our internet crap and scream "Eureka!" Sheez.


Edited by Czereda (09/16/16 01:03 PM)
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#108759 - 09/16/16 02:48 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
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The thing is, though, that nothing that can be said about it is falsifiable.
*a' la "It's not a bug it's a feature"

That's normally a huge red-flag right there to even your garden variety community college stoner-philosopher types. What's utterly fascinating to me though, is that it's almost as if manufacturing enough .pdfs alone is sufficient to over-flow the buffer that normally handles BS detection in even the sharpest and cynical of marbles.

Pretty neat.

Also the idea of "onanism on everyone's lips" is smirkworthy in its own right - right up there with a "dickfor on every shoulder".
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