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#110947 - 12/24/16 01:14 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
Oh, so sorry to assume Polish people have access to American pop culture references. I will do my best in the future to look up current events and other Poland specific content before I make such equivocations.
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#110948 - 12/24/16 03:13 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
The "rejections" and withdrawel from it only implies that the entire "culture" is not so different from other (quite literal) SUB-cultures.

A constant whining about who is and who isn't. The special snowflake attitude which is so prevalent..

For being a presumed "occult" and "sinister" group they sure are out and about. Not to mention being quite "liberal" when it concerns the nay-saying attitude.

This is a good indication ONA devolved into something which you can only find on college-campuses. A pretention of/for adult intellectualism combined with immature characters who never had their asses whooped thoroughly in life.

Most grow out of it as soon as they have to move out of the safe-spaces parents and college offers. Others stay illusioned silently hoping they will rise to the top of this smouldering carcass. Waiting until the other worms had their fill, became flies which flew away to circle another pile of crap.



Edited by Dimitri (12/24/16 03:26 AM)
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#110958 - 12/24/16 04:23 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Dimitri]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1847
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
The "rejections" and withdrawel from it only implies that the entire "culture" is not so different from other (quite literal) SUB-cultures.


In my opinion, it all boils down to love. Labels can be switched but human nature largely remains the same. If relatives and close friends don't fulfill one's primal need to belong, one starts searching for a substitute tribe. It's the quest for acceptance that often ends in disappointment and that finally triggers the whole range of painful emotions. Of course, nearly always it's those other people that get the blame.

Why don't you love me?
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#110980 - 12/26/16 08:08 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Oxus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
I think reactions like his are fairly common. People get swept up by the writing that they hold expectations about conduct (as he put it). Again, that conduct remains useful. You can observe it and be not of it.
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#111195 - 01/11/17 09:06 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Deepak Gupta]
Ateosoth Offline
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Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 9
 Originally Posted By: Deepak Gupta


This should seriously be a lesson to learn about the nature and physis of Myatt for you ONA fanboys and ONA Nexions to consider. You fanboys and Nexions have - year after year - put in your time, energy, into ONA; to help spread it, to help spread Myatt's teachings. And none of you have ever been acknowledged or recognized. Not ABG Lodge. Not THEM. Not Drakon Covenant. Not Hagur. Not the Tempel ov Blood.

But Darryl has...

Why? Because people like Ryan of THEM not only have their own group and following, but they are also intelligent and produce a lot of writings. Which Myatt considers to be competition. If you are an ONA fanboy or nexion and you have a blog, and you have a brain to write good shit, you are competition to Myatt's ideas and writings.



It is not quite true that those people were not recognized - more precisely they were selectively recognized and were denied recognition due to circumstances. This doesn't make all of this better, but worse of course. The best example is and was THEM. When they were standing in line or praising Myatt they were recognized as ONA Nexion, when they tried to forge their own path and opinion, they were denied this recognition and even took some whipping because of it. When ToB does their own thing - they are just "ONA influenced" group - when ToB makes success with publishing activities through Martinet Press, and when they uncover some esoteric pearls through their own research ONA wants to have these pearls and this honest effort with publishing business attached to itself so ToB becomes ONA. When ABG Lodge writes about identity of Vindex and uncovers some truths about ONA, National-Socialism and again some esoteric pearls, on their own - they are "ONA insiders" and "ONA Initiates", implying that those truths were handed out to them not uncovered through their own study - but when they address some criticism toward some new ONA pet or ONA itself, they again become just "ONA influenced group". All of this within a couple of months. When Drakon Convenant do their vampiric and satanic stuff they are just goth-kids and ONA fans. When Ryan Fleming of DC writes some praises about Myatt's unconvincing theories in physics and acausal - he is ONA. When Chloe of WSA writes in praise of ONA and gives years of her life to advance it she is recognized as Outer Representative and WSA as flagship Nexion - as soon as she crossed the line and addressed some criticism toward OG - she becomes "dupe all along". etc. etc.

When it comes to the title of this subject, I guess it is very true - I guess many feelings were hurt in this way. From personal contact with many of these people I know for sure this is true. However this is not exclusively ONA's fault. They even warn those adherents that ONA/OG is apparently consisted of malicious assholes, that they are "evil". But that so-called evil is more like behavior of an insane and spoiled child who enjoys braking its toys and then crying over it when realizing its own folly. Like Anna C. put it somewhere within this topic.

To be completely fair in this matter - all of this is something inherent within any Order or esoteric Tradition. If Freemason criticize his superiors they will be shunned, expelled or end up dead. if anyone in CoS criticize its leadership they will end up expelled and forming their own Order, like Mr. Aquino did who will expel from ToS anyone who criticize him. The only problem here is that in declarative way ONA proclaims to be different from these "old=aeon" orders in terms of being a-dogmatic and providing freedom for its adherents, while, apparently it is not different.
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#111215 - 01/11/17 06:31 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Ateosoth]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1847
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
But that so-called evil is more like behavior of an insane and spoiled child who enjoys braking its toys and then crying over it when realizing its own folly. Like Anna C. put it somewhere within this topic.


Whether you (the general you) end up being broken is up to you and you alone. An enemy is useful.
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#111218 - 01/11/17 07:43 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
Ateosoth Offline
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Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 9
 Originally Posted By: Czereda

Whether you (the general you) end up being broken is up to you and you alone. An enemy is useful.


you forum freaks.. you intentionally "miss" or neglect the point just to be able to eat shit. what you accomplish or what you add to with this kind of reply? The tone is, however obvious, but equally distasteful.

what was the point here Anna?
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#111219 - 01/11/17 08:55 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Ateosoth]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1847
Loc: Poland
I think I made myself clear enough. If someone's crap talk or disapproval is enough to break you, then the problem is with you and you alone. Appreciation and inclusion can make you feel good but paradoxically it's rejection and exclusion that make you stronger or any other kind of opposition. There is this Ted Talk show about a guy who was so afraid of being rejected that he was deliberately seeking rejection just to overcome his fear. It was a kind of therapy through confrontation.

But that was life. This is the internet. These people are just bloggers. What horrible things can they do to you? How can they limit your liberty? They are just partners/opponents in a discussion. Sometimes they visit forums and blogs to chit chat about the ONA and their antics may well serve as a source of inspiration for creative writing and an interesting material for blogs or forum posts. The debates with them are a motivation to do some more research, to read more etc. And they are entertaining. All in all, they bring more good than harm.

Now, I understand I'm an outsider but if someone treats strangers one barely knows or doesn't know at all as a "Family" and demands "honorable treatment" or "loyalty", then one is in for big disappointment. It reeks of solipsism; expecting people to give you the same consideration you gave them. Do unto others as they do unto you - these are some wise words.
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#111224 - 01/12/17 03:59 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Ateosoth]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
There's a wise lesson that seems to fly over many heads here:

"Opinions of others do not matter when doing your own thing".

That's all what this flip-flopping is indicating.
Too much care about others and not so much about the self.

It isn't surprising many drawned into the deep end.
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#111229 - 01/12/17 10:05 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
Ateosoth Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 9
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I think I made myself clear enough. If someone's crap talk or disapproval is enough to break you, then the problem is with you and you alone. Appreciation and inclusion can make you feel good but paradoxically it's rejection and exclusion that make you stronger or any other kind of opposition. There is this Ted Talk show about a guy who was so afraid of being rejected that he was deliberately seeking rejection just to overcome his fear. It was a kind of therapy through confrontation.

But that was life. This is the internet. These people are just bloggers. What horrible things can they do to you? How can they limit your liberty? They are just partners/opponents in a discussion. Sometimes they visit forums and blogs to chit chat about the ONA and their antics may well serve as a source of inspiration for creative writing and an interesting material for blogs or forum posts. The debates with them are a motivation to do some more research, to read more etc. And they are entertaining. All in all, they bring more good than harm.

Now, I understand I'm an outsider but if someone treats strangers one barely knows or doesn't know at all as a "Family" and demands "honorable treatment" or "loyalty", then one is in for big disappointment. It reeks of solipsism; expecting people to give you the same consideration you gave them. Do unto others as they do unto you - these are some wise words.


You still don't get it quite, still missing my point and you are making the same mistake as some of those ONA people, but speaking in general terms you might be right. However I tried to explain something else here, and I will try and draw it for you - Why this fear of rejection and all the other stuff you wrote about cannot be attached at least to some:

I belong to the fellowship known as ABG Lodge, at least honorary now days, so I will try to portrait certain matters from this peculiar perspective just to underline some misunderstanding here.

The fact is, we never wanted to be ONA nor we ever forced such recognition. As I said, it was randomly given and was denied to everyone being in its proximity as explained in my initial reply. least we wanted to be part of some "association" or a "Kollective" and for years Lodge directly and openly was against such concepts, seeing them as very limiting in regard of Sinisterly-Numinous Tradition - which for us was a new occult current we saw emerging - spawning out of ONA, but reaching beyond ONA and finally beyond its scope of influence.

In one article of the Lodge entitled "ABG Lodge and Mysticism in 21st Century" one can read the following:

 Quote:
origins of what later became known as the ABG Lodge predated its intersection of paths with ONA. These origins, in historical sense and in terms of previous affiliations of its creators, are also mystery even for the most members of the Lodge – but there are highly noticeable influences of some old Alchemical and Hermetic traditions, which had been present within the Lodge prior to development of its relation with ONA. Being that the Lodge was never explicitly interested in Satanism and similar (except in some broader context), exactly this alchemical trace led us eventually to ONA, as we recognized within it highly valuable practical interpretation of formula of the Great Work. In time, we adopted some philosophical and practical aspects of O9A and merged it with the concept of inherited system of Initiation already present within the Lodge – which made a perfect match.


To provide you with a hint about the mentioned mystery related to the origin, let us just say that some prominent members of the ABG Lodge could be found in different other Lodges. Not many traditions are using this term (lodge) to refer to their temple of the Mysteries. Simply, in ONA and its philosophy we found a new expression, a new language for expressing very old Mysteries we were very well familiar with all along, as same as we found some practical application of the Great Work on individual and social levels. I will support this with additional quotes from some earlier articles of the Lodge, so no one can tell I'm making this up as I go along:

Quoting from "Not in the Name of O9A":

 Quote:
Future of Esotericism

If we are not speaking about actual esoteric Order – the ONA, today we have an esoteric (mystical)Tradition, Sinisterly-Numinous Tradition, with different individuals and groups adherent to, or influenced by this Tradition and this occult philosophy. But why this Tradition is important, in some broader sense? Let us take a look at this question from a historical perspective. In times past some orders originating from Freemasonic and Rosicrucian Traditions were not only considered with keeping some portions of hermetic and alchemical knowledge, but they were also considered with great social changes and bringing them about. So, back then, people were joining these orders, not only to gain access to this portion of esoteric knowledge, but also to take part in social and political changes that were attuned to, and tied with perspectives and teachings of such orders. Back in those days, being part of such Traditions meant real dangers, real action, unlike
today. Today we are living in civilization which can be said to be founded upon values upheld by Freemasonry and their ideological predecessors – thus, a circle is closed, and, in one sense and in regard to this Tradition, what was once esoteric is now exoteric, losing its inner bulk and significance. This is why in many instances esotericisim of these past Traditions is becoming obsolete, along with its symbols and rituals – all of this fulfilled its role to an extent. This means
moving toward certain stagnation, toward lack of ability to evolve and to support some deeper meaning of such Traditions. And today people are not joining these orders to gain access to this esoteric knowledge, or to boldly take part in some hard and real change of the world – Mostly,
people are joining these orders out of hope of gaining benefits and comfort from such an association, or to satisfy some feeling of being elite. Thus these orders are dying out from within, burdened by such parasites and aforementioned stagnation/uselessness of their forms that fulfilled their purpose. This is why future of Esotericism belongs to SN Tradition which represents genuine Antithesis to established order and its values, being in this way genuine seed of further(alchemical) changes and of moving forward, in terms of individual and social evolution.


As an Appendix to the quoted article is the following:

 Quote:
Appendix:

Light of the Truth

(being quotes taken from some ABG writings, relevant to the subject elaborated above. Some of these writings are still non-public.)
***

“2. Lodge is the Temple of the Mysteries

2.1.
Mysteries, devoid of ownership / that are inherited and kept by many genuine (esoteric) orders all along the lines of space-time. Each of these orders had and has its own Wyrd linked with the character and qualities of an order, impregnated into them by their creators – i.e. linked with their interpretation of the Mysteries, which in turn is always conditioned by time and circumstances within which the same (interpretation) is evolved.

2.2.
Mysteries, as Timeless / Throughout the history of secret societies in Europe many exoteric forms were introduced by these genuine esoteric orders; forms which on the surface created apparent division and conflict - but, under the surface we can see all of these genuine orders, present and past, as an unbroken lineage of One continuous current, one Mystery School, one Order if you will, whose existence stretches from the beginning of human history up to this very moment and beyond - for inherited spirit of such genuine orders was unified with the very Cause of this Universe.

2.3.
Mysteries as Formless / Exoteric attires of these orders always served some causal purpose, thus being subjected to causal limits in terms of influence and lifetime, or usefulness of the same. We can observe separated cases through separated categories related to portions of time, in terms of lifespan of certain exoteric form(s) utilized, created or hijacked, by a genuine esoteric order(s). We can divide these categories into portions of years, decades, centuries.

2.4.
Mysteries as Esoteric / In time, some of these outer forms becomes obsolete, not adequately able to meet practical demands of evolution of the Cause, applied within the social structure (habitat of these orders), whether for the reason of fulfilling its purpose or because of the fact that no such form is absolutely incorruptible, often being sacked and destroyed by some unworthy, uninformed generation of inheritors who drift away from the inner esoteric Heart. Those who preserve this Heart of Mysteries within genuine order usually don't fight forcefully to keep these outer forms on "course" - For torch that bears the Light of the Truth is given unto sufficient number of mature enough to keep it safe and pass it on. “ - ABG Lodge, Five Pointed


We never sought any recognition from ONA - we actually recognized *them* to be unique "evolving of interpretation" as we call it. Through some of our blog pages we advanced ONA propaganda and Mythos because we saw its value within the context of the Great Work. However, our inner documents in Serbian were rarely tainted with this and were mostly focused on hermetics and alchemy, and employing ONA language and symbolism to re-express some of the related truths and principles in practical and philosophical sense. I guess that some in ONA and many outside of the ONA never recognized the true nature and intent of the Lodge - putting us in the same basket with all the other "fan-boys" as some of you refer to the adherent. Or as one of the Gnawers put it, using words by the illustrious Manly P. Hall - "splendid camaraderie".

Despite the fact we always openly fought against and criticized this sense of belonging, this association and the Kollective - we were never that naive to recognize every anonymous blogger our "family". Yet another confirmation of this comes from Darigon of ABG when he writes in his article, entitled "Quintessence of the ONA: Code of Kindered Honour":

 Quote:
And what is this Rite of Initiation, if it is not followed by committed work. Rite in itself means nothing if the Path, and especially the appropriate Stage isn’t being followed. Or as it’s said in NAOS: „Initiation here simply means the willingness to follow Sevenfold Way.“ So is everyone who undertook that Rite all of a sudden my brother or sister, for whom I should die at some point? No, I don’t find it to be so. Several reasons for this. My kindred brothers and sisters are those whom I personally know and who have proven that they embody those principles presented through the Code.


Our feelings were never hurt, nor we ever regretted any kind of interaction with ONA (here meaning the Order, the OG), or anything we gave to and took from ONA. I responded to this topic only because what Deepak Gupta posted, and what I initially quoted, struck me as the truth known from close observance during the years, and because I knew for sure some feelings were hurt. However, emphasis were not on the adherent and their reactions and feelings, but on these actions and behavior not suitable for an Adept, or a Master, or whatever "old-aeon" title those OG bestow upon themselves falling into the trap of spiritual authority or cult mentality, or whatever. And we realized some of these things a time ago. As it was written in one of the articles of the Lodge:

 Quote:
However, during the years it had become apparent that at times some are abusing aforementioned esoteric purpose of contradictions and Labyrinthos just to cover up their personal mistakes or to explain away some unintended outcomes. This is something which Lodge would rarely overlook, because we are aware that this only serves some superficial and temporal purpose and in long term, and on many subtle levels is harmful to the Tradition itself.





Edited by Ateosoth (01/12/17 10:22 AM)
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#111235 - 01/12/17 12:54 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Ateosoth]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1847
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
I responded to this topic only because what Deepak Gupta posted, and what I initially quoted, struck me as the truth known from close observance during the years, and because I knew for sure some feelings were hurt. However, emphasis were not on the adherent and their reactions and feelings, but on these actions and behavior not suitable for an Adept, or a Master, or whatever "old-aeon" title those OG bestow upon themselves falling into the trap of spiritual authority or cult mentality, or whatever. And we realized some of these things a time ago.


Fair enough. Such behavior is indeed not suitable for an "adept" provided these people are for real i.e., they are genuine self-deceitful morons. "Not sure if troll or just stupid" comes to mind. My point is that, in either case, they are irrelevant. They have purely entertainment value. At best, they can offer some opportunities for intellectual exercise.

Now, if some people decide to play a martyrdom card, write long good-bye letters, prattle about "cyber-bullying", "harassment", "public crucifixions", death threats and how cruel "Davie" is, and what a terrible condition the ONA is in, that is their choice. However, it's giving the WordPress clowns far more credit than they are due.
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#113676 - 07/30/17 09:50 AM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Czereda]
Greg Offline
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Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: France, Paris
Well, I'm always surprised and tired by the ONAnist here. The ONA is an invention of Myatt for gullible who do not want to accept that they are pathetic neonazis. I think that this forum would win in interest if all these masturbations on the RPG ONA came to an end.
ONA is just occult/esoteric entrism to extreme-right wing politics.
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#113679 - 07/30/17 03:02 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Greg]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 185
 Originally Posted By: Greg
Well, I'm always surprised and tired by the ONAnist here. The ONA is an invention of Myatt for gullible who do not want to accept that they are pathetic neonazis. I think that this forum would win in interest if all these masturbations on the RPG ONA came to an end.
ONA is just occult/esoteric entrism to extreme-right wing politics.


Oh no, not "neonazis" and "extreme-right wing politics"! They're right up there with Devil-worshippers, I tell you!

Friend, don't you know that revolutionary France is headed for history's dustbin, and your kind will be cleansed by the Rightist regime to come? The main question being, will it be brown Muslims or white Nationalists who do the cleansing? Either way, the age of scrawny little coffeehouse degenerates like you enjoying liberte in France is surely coming to a close. Hail Satan!


Edited by Brother Nihil (07/30/17 03:03 PM)

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#113681 - 07/30/17 03:35 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Brother Nihil]
Creatura Noptii Online
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 823
Loc: Oregon
Not those god damn coffee house degenerate Sons a bithces!

Forcing people into something they aren't used to is just asking for trouble. Fact is, people are hard-wired to conform to their birth culture. Defending its behavioural turf is equated to survival. Mixing two cultures in the same place doesn't do anyone any good. Making the excuse that we have to because we are all human is to miss the point, which is that because of human nature, we cannot get along too far. It seems to me that the human animal is more inclined to fight than bond.

Globalization has opened up opportunity to some countries, but always at the cost of others. Its backfiring because people's cultural heritage has to be thrown out the window for it to work, and that's not going to happen in any 'nice' kind of way.
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#113693 - 07/31/17 03:25 PM Re: ONA Hurt Your Feelings? [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1847
Loc: Poland
Humans have always been tribal by nature. Still we can't come back to the times of Neanderthals. There will be immigration whether we want it or not. The governments can curb it, try to control it but they won't be able to eliminate it altogether.

The European Union accepts all the immigrants with open arms, which is a self-destructive behavior. However, often the immigrants help the job market. For example, we have plenty of Ukrainians living and working in Poland. Some say that they take jobs from us and, perhaps, it's partly true. But they also do the work the natives don't want to do. Many businesses would fall if it wasn't for the Ukrainian workers.
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