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#109266 - 10/02/16 09:07 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Magicka Dispelga]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
I agree with you hate speech laws are bullshit. However, these laws are often only theoretical and exist only on paper. They won't protect you from being rejected or humiliated unless you're willing to sue every asshole who insults you or looks at you in a funny way.

My reaction would be the same if you were bitching about anti-gay Christian bigots. Why do you think the gay community should be more tolerant than the Christian community? Why should they be less hypocritical? What you're complaining about is simply human nature that exists regardless of sexuality or a religious label. Disabled people can be nasty too. I had once a handicapped friend who vented his frustration on everyone around and this is why we are no longer friends.
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#109268 - 10/03/16 03:46 AM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Gira Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 46
Loc: Oro Valley, Arizona
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii


Now we can possibly shift this piece of shit thread into something a little more revealing. Maybe.

There, an attempt at constructive bitching on my part.

Carry on \:\)



Good idea. Ms Magica are you legal?

This is not a question about age or citizenship. It's about the process one must go through to get their gender marker legally changed on their civil and/or federal identification cards.
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#109274 - 10/03/16 09:38 AM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
Speaking of righting wrongs.

What's wrong with being a bigot, in your opinion? This question is relevant to the 'constructiveness' of a criticism.

To avoid a semantics game, let's just roll with THIS definition.

 Quote:
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.


Society is pretty stubborn:

 Quote:
the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.


and have been deemed deplorable for the affects on others. These nameless, faceless, countless others we should give a shit about.

What say you? Do you find bigotry abhorrent and if so why? If not, why not?
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#109276 - 10/03/16 11:21 AM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
Depends on the bigotry. There exist people and groups I don't like, and I'd rather not have them in my presence. No one is going to like everyone else in the world. I happen to agree with your position more or less, in that having a heart for everyone seems highly irrational. If I show compassion to someone only to find out they would do me harm, I've been a fool. Call it paranoia, I call it common sense. If you desire my respect, you have to earn it.

I find a lot of hardcore bigots to be dull, mindless and lacking enchantment, afraid of change and life in general. These are the types who'd never dare leave the home town they grew up in, be it a city or a trailer park.

A great deal of bigotry is all talk. I had a friend who said he hated niggers, always telling me this. One day we went to the general store to pick up some goods, and a black guy walked in. I went to get something to drink and fifteen minutes later I found my friend bullshitting with this black fellow. Just laughing it up.

So much for hating niggers.

People say and believe what they are taught by their community. To go against it means loosing friends and family, becoming a reject. Most people cannot handle this, and will continue repeating whatever keeps them secure within the circle jerk of group acceptance.

Bigotry is but one symptom of a greater problem.

On the other hand, many people grow up where all they know is violent conflict, and one need not travel all the way across the world to see it. Go to your closest inner city.

The more people you have in one place, the more people are going to form groups and commit violence. You will grow up hating people who threaten your life on a regular basis from day one. Keeping closely knit to your group is a means of survival and prosperity in an environment of constant violence and hardship. Here bigotry is retaliation against the consistently adversarial. Fighting fire with fire.

At the moment I find feminist bigotry more entertaining than threatening, however, these morons will believe anything told to them in classrooms with absolutely no individual attempt at understanding counter evidence, no attempt at individual scrutiny. No questioning what so ever. How people allow themselves to be led with no resistance is disturbing to me, though I believe I understand it. Yet, understanding does little to remedy my own disgust.
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#109278 - 10/03/16 01:46 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
Does bigotry require hatred and/or violence?

know your meme.

 Quote:
The phrase “I can count to potato” was first used in the 2005 comedy film The Ringer in which con man Steve Barker (played by Johnny Knoxville) pretends to be mentally disabled in order to compete in the Special Olympics


 Quote:
“I Can Count to Potato” is a controversial catchphrase that is meant to indicate a lack of intelligence and usually paired with photographs of people who appear to have been diagnosed with learning disabilities. The phrase is sometimes used in image boards and forums in reacting to comments that are deemed unintelligent. Due to the insensitive nature of the meme, it has been criticized for perpetuating ableism[7], a type of discrimination against people with disabilities.


Not to mention the stigma associated with people with intellectual disabilities. Some people have a genuine dislike for such people because there is a social exception, a drain on resources and that dislike may not be discriminatory.
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#109280 - 10/03/16 04:31 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Magicka Dispelga]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Magicka Dispelga
What about all the normal people in the world who take more than they give? Most of my normal health relatives have been a bigger burden to me and my mother than my brother ever has been. Ranging from drug abuse, alcoholism, aggression and passive aggression, narcissism, moodiness. Does that mean I can call them burdens? Can't pretty much anyone who doesn't do genuinely productive work like building, inventing, saving lives etc be seen as taking more than giving? That's pretty much what people do anyway from a worldly view, people have proven to be bad for the earth. Most people aren't doing anything so worth while that they'd be missed, because the coattail riders heavily outweigh the pioneers.

If I didn't have the context of it being rhetorical questions meant to throw me off, I'd look at this in isolation and think, "by Jove, you've got it."
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#109281 - 10/03/16 04:42 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Magicka Dispelga

Just out of curiosity, if I had come here complaining about religious zealots being anti gay and anti trans, would you have responded to me the same way?

Yes. Stop responding to the imaginary Satanist stereotype you expect to encounter and talk to the people who are actually here.

 Originally Posted By: Magicka Dispelga
Because it just comes across as though you're one of the very people I mentioned, people who get defensive instead actually listening to what I said.

Saying you ramble on and on and don't seem to have a point isn't defensive, is an astute observation. Instead of the stream of consciousness/ wall of text, try to think in terms of "thesis" and "paragraphs."

So, some people are hypocrites. So what? That's just an observation. Can you get any salient points out of that observation? If so, what?
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#109287 - 10/04/16 07:47 AM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Magicka Dispelga]
Satanic Princess Offline
member


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 204
Loc: New Zealand
 Originally Posted By: Magicka Dispelga
 Originally Posted By: Satanic Princess
I'm not really sure I agree with you implying that its the LGBT communtity who behaves this way only. I think its more human or animalistic nature to pick out the "weak" ones to target.

I'm bisexual, however I have only ever had one girlfriend and she was trouble with a capital "T"; she would verbally attack me, threaten violence if I didn't answer her immediately and go off at me for speaking to anyone else, especially people she didn't know (even my friend who was dying of cancer).
I just rolled over and took it until one day I didn't and snapped back at her and left the relationship; I had violent threats thrown towards me and the works; but of course nothing ever came about it.

However, just because of an experience with one individual is negative, doesn't mean that all of the individuals within that community are that way; I know some lovely LGBT people in my real life.

I think what you've experienced, Magicka, although unfortunate; is not a representation of the LGBT community, but of human nature.


I never said gay and trans people point blank. I said that intolerance and bullying is common within those "communities" as much as elsewhere, except I feel they get away with it more, and the criticism they get tends to be more passive in general. This was covered in my comments.



Hello again Ms/Mr Magicka.

Let's start with another story:



Bullying and intolerance are EVERYWHERE. I lived in Australia for two years at the start of high school in a town in bum fuck nowhere. I have a strong, smoky kiwi accent. Kiwis are to the Australians what Canadians are to the Americans; but the kiwis are probably more stigmatised. I'm also part Maori which didn't help.
I was shoved around, beaten up, pushed into lockers, tripped over, had my lunch thrown onto the roof of the classroom; everything.
At first I cried and sooked and carried on (I was 12/13 alright? Hahaha). Then I got a tougher skin; got hit, so I hit her back, hard, and never got picked on again.

It doesn't matter who you are; someone is always going to pick on and bully you; it's simple.

Now, I don't remember who suggested it, but I remember the response that pretty much stated that there is not "good" (so to speak) in having a disabled "special snowflake" child.
There is now the ability to have "designer babies" and I plan to do this; as I have schizophrenia, I have a history of autism in my family, and my boyfriend is severely dyslexic to the point that he is virtually illiterate; and I don't want my future children to have to go through the struggles of any of those issues.
I'm not sure about dyslexia genes; but I plan to avoid schizophrenia and autism in my future child if I can; fucking with nature? Probably, but I don't want my child to suffer.

I don't think that LGBT people get away with more bullying either.
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#109298 - 10/04/16 11:04 AM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
a drain on resources and that dislike may not be discriminatory.


I'd say a discriminatory choice is being made, by singling out who is disabled from who isn't. The focus becomes how this particular discrimination is, or might be considered harmful.

Mocking the disabled pushes the boundary of social acceptance, so one might be called a bigot. Feminists would call your picture harmful, even though no one has been injured, and hateful because it threatens someone's safe space.

*So I'll ask you Ms. Jones, does injury require physical violence?



Edited by Creatura Noptii (10/04/16 11:05 AM)
Edit Reason: *= sarcasm, yet the question stands none the less...
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#109302 - 10/04/16 12:18 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
From an economical stand-point, one may decide that allowing a defective fetus come to term is an illogical choice. People often bite off more than they can chew, then that child becomes a drain on resources. The burden is then shelved onto society at large to fund assistance programs, charities, etc. So it's not that the decision of the one doesn't affect the many.

As I said, it may not be a discriminatory practice but more so addressing the larger issues.

The disabled have been stigmatized with reason. Injury has become a subjective spectrum we need not accept.
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#109306 - 10/04/16 03:50 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
Allowing a healthy fetus to come to term may be highly illogical from an economic standpoint. Many people have children they cannot raise without assistance.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination
I was speaking in context of the third definition.

The first uses the fair vs. unfair analogy, which is nearly pointless in my opinion. Even if you want to treat people fairly, the third context of discrimination is used to figure out who is and who isn't being treated with the standards of the primary.

Who and what constitutes as disabled will be categorized, singled out, targeted, and dealt with.

Of course the burden is placed on society. It's for the greater good, don't you know?
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#109311 - 10/04/16 05:41 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Satanic Princess]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
It doesn't matter who you are; someone is always going to pick on and bully you; it's simple.


All too often, this "bullying" is only in the eye of the beholder. Once I was eating out with my friends. One of them was disabled. Suddenly, he said: "Why is this child staring at me?"

He often said people looked at him in a funny way so he automatically assumed the child was staring at him because he looked like a freak. But, actually, he didn't know why the child was looking at him.

Children sometimes keep gaping at me for some reason. They have a piercing gaze so it might be uncomfortable. One child after gazing at me for quite a long time, eventually smiled and waved her hand at me. Also adults sometimes look at you for no obvious reason. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with you.

I think the same case might be with "fat-shaming." Take for example this article:

A Woman Fat-Shamed Me On The Subway — And I Fought Back

Was the author of this article really fat-shamed by a stranger? Or did she fat-shame herself? I think it was the latter one. She got mad at an innocent remark. Apparently, the woman on the subway was only envious of her delicious chocolate snacks.

A prime example of self-loathing, which one can easily project onto other people.
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#109313 - 10/04/16 07:23 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Czereda]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 267
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
I think there is a difference between bullying and staring at people...

But regarding the latter... I believe not being allowed to stare at people or be curious about their differences from yourself is half of the problem these days.

I remember seeing short doco films where white people would fly into areas where secluded tribes lived, and the natives were filmed touching and prodding the white people because they were so strange and different. Nobody takes offence to this.

I believe part of the problem with society these days is that we are expected to swallow the lie that we are all the same when our brain clearly tells us that we are not. I think it would be better if we just became familiar with each others differences so we are comfortable with them and then that gives us opportunity to maybe appreciate them and certainly not fear them.

I once dated a much older man who's skin had lost its integrity (it was soft). I squished his skin for two weeks because it was strange feeling. He would ask me what I was doing and I said, "Getting to know you..." After a couple of weeks I was used to it and I grew to love it.

If I dated a negro I would probably boop his springy afro hair for a couple of weeks because it would be strange and interesting to me.

If I dated a skinny man I would probably feel his bones...

I think, accepting that we are different and that that is okay would also help the ones getting stared at. Their thought process might change from "They are staring at me because I am a freak!" to "They are staring at me because I am different from them and they are curious about me..."

Of course, we do need to consider someone's personal space (which btw, is a boundary I have crossed a lot in my life LOL, but the outcome was usually positive - just look at my signature/tag).

Curiosity is considered bigotry these day. But bigotry usually stems from a lack of understanding. The trouble is, how can we get to know and understand each other and our differences if we are expected to believe that we are all the same. ...We simply are not!



Edited by ShadowLover (10/04/16 07:26 PM)
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#109314 - 10/04/16 09:22 PM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Czereda]
Satanic Princess Offline
member


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 204
Loc: New Zealand
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
 Quote:
It doesn't matter who you are; someone is always going to pick on and bully you; it's simple.


All too often, this "bullying" is only in the eye of the beholder.


YES! That is exactly what I was trying to say; It's like when people say that they've "taken offence to something" so fucking what? YOU took offence. Not me; I say.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Once I was eating out with my friends. One of them was disabled. Suddenly, he said: "Why is this child staring at me?"

He often said people looked at him in a funny way so he automatically assumed the child was staring at him because he looked like a freak. But, actually, he didn't know why the child was looking at him.

Children sometimes keep gaping at me for some reason. They have a piercing gaze so it might be uncomfortable. One child after gazing at me for quite a long time, eventually smiled and waved her hand at me. Also adults sometimes look at you for no obvious reason. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with you.

Sometimes people don't mean to stare either; they just get lost in their own little worlds. If it's a child; for all you know they could be wondering where their lost teddy bear at home is (if they're old enough not to be bawling their eyes our about it) and if it's an adult it could be anything; like, for example, writing a shopping list in their head.
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I plan to live forever.... so far, so good! \:\)

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#109315 - 10/05/16 01:49 AM Re: Many gay and trans people are scum. [Re: Satanic Princess]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
[Quick reply]
People will always judge. No escaping possible.
Wanting to be a special snowflake unopposed? Tough luck kids, this ain't how the world works.

The modern illness is here. Being "unique" without consequence.
Internet and social media have their hand in this. On the internet and facebook you can be whoever you want without opposition. Your self-chosen "circle" will always be there to comfort "the wrongness" of outsiders/mundanes/plebs/not-like-us,...

Reality paints the picture on how you truly are perceived if having to act on your own.

Generational pussification. Before this kind of shit, people learned to put up with it. Now it is a reason for outcry.

It is the disability to recognize and know not everyone is going to accept your style or being. We're at a point that society became so moralistic that it is unknowingly strapping itself in amorality and making a fuzz about it.

Dare I say that this age might be called "the crybaby generation"?


Edited by Dimitri (10/05/16 01:51 AM)
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