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#109653 - 10/21/16 01:17 PM Will
Persona non grata Offline
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Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
The primary differences between the Sinister Numinous and the Pseudosatanic are made obvious in that the Sinister Numinous understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one is able to consciously dictate their own nature, to be empathetic to, and by way of empathy, acknowledge ones own connection with life on both causal and acausal strata, thus lending their efforts to their personal, and cosmic strata of, evolution, whereas the Pseudosatanic understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one seeks stasis, allowing cultural, social, and academic expectations (abstractions) to dictate their nature, bastardizing empathy, and by way of muting that capacity, sever their connection to other life, competing relentlessly and unnecessarily, causing unnecessary suffering, and lending their efforts to the climbing of career, monetary, and social ladders, and the evolution of those temporally insignificant abstractions.

Edited by N913 (10/21/16 01:17 PM)

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#109659 - 10/21/16 02:48 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
It is my opinion almost everyone, but not all, want to attain financial security and opulence.

Money is the arbitrator of ethics, and a "will to power" ties invariably to it.

The difference between "mundane" and "sinister" is how one goes about it, in my opinion.

Anecdote:

I drive for Lyft, and have seen this represented, and always along ethical lines.

For example: I pick people up from the airport, and many drivers (usually Arabs) will call their rides if the fare isn't large enough, say they were "rear ended" and need them to cancel the ride, all so they won't lose their place in line. They will keep doing that until they get one that's worth their time.

It pisses me off. It's shady shit, but a perfect example of how I interpret a "dishonorable" attaient of wealth. It shows no respect for the people that pay for their privately contracted services.

You may call me a Dudley Do-Right, and I won't care. Why it pisses me off may be my own ethical projection, and I still won't care.

I will say the dichotomy of willful attainment is ethical, and if empathy is evoked must include a "golden rule"/Lex Talionis hybrid. The former initially and the latter once their actions revoke that treatment.

That's my opinion anyway.

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#109738 - 10/25/16 06:23 AM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
Persona non grata Offline
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Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
It is my opinion almost everyone, but not all, want to attain financial security and opulence.

Opulence and wealth have nothing to do with security. "Security" is security, regardless of how it is obtained. Your worldview is such that you would ignore that elephant in the room, that nation state and government which would have you believe that you couldn't sustain yourself without their assistance, or without their governing bodies. Being a slave to that paradigm, you further believe that the only way to obtain goods is according to their financial systems, because that is what they have told you to believe.

It should be obvious to everyone exactly how flimsy and fabricated monetary system are, as they come and go, existing in any number of forms, currencies, and according to various, and ever changing, codes and laws, which demonstrate how arbitrary and fabricated those systems, and those who govern them, are. Not to mention that those governing bodies who advocate these systems and laws are constantly breaking their own laws, violating their own codes, and shuffling their currency into Nation States in an attempt to hide their two-faced conspiracy from the public.

Look at yourselves bragging about the freedom of your nations, posting about it on phones that were made by slaves, while wearing clothes that were made in a sweat-shop, talking about your loving marriages while gazing adoringly at a slave diamond on your stupid wife's finger. Keep your opulence.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
Money is the arbitrator of ethics, and a "will to power" ties invariably to it.

Monetary systems, in and of themselves, had no inherent value. The value lies in labor, property, goods, time, sex, skills, and so on. Money is the ridiculous notion which has poisoned your worldview, and lead you to believe that, a faceless, impersonal, third party, Nation State, has the "authority" to hijack your ability to barter and trade with another individual on your own agreed upon terms. What has nature bestowed upon them, which you and I lack? They have no authority, other than your blind compliance, and your willful ignorance.

Will to Power is another ridiculous notion, asserting that human beings strive to achieve the highest possible position, though oddly enough, everyone claiming Will to Power demonstrate themselves to dwell in base level consciousness, R-complex, pursuing cultural abstractions, rather than a position above or beyond them. The philosophy, if you can call it that, falls flat on its face, not to mention that Nietzsche never properly elaborated upon the subject enough that the issue cannot be personally interpreted in any number of contradictory religious, national, political, and social manners, rendering it yet another meaningless and mundane notion.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
The difference between "mundane" and "sinister" is how one goes about it, in my opinion.

As you become upset if you have to read too much here in the forum, Ill just pin a link to the essay I have already written in response to this issue. See the relevant sections labeled: EGO AND EXPECTATION - An Observation of Sinister and Mundane Appropriations of Essence and Form -

1. What Is Indicated By The Terms Sinister And Mundane?
2. Perception And Expectation Of Paradigm Essence And Form
3. Solitary Sinister Initiation And Mundane Community Priority
4. Conclusion

https://nexion913blog.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/ego-interrogist-velticese-forest.pdf

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#109749 - 10/25/16 01:24 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
Your dichotomy between "the numinous" and "pseuds" stands on loose screws.

You're drawing a line, and defining groups, based on what you think are contradicting stances while conveniently ignoring the, quite heavy, philosophical question "nurture or nature?".
Not to mention you're stating the quite obvious "white is light and black is dark".

I mean really.... if the Satanic/Numinous stands for "imposement and enforcing the own will" it is quite obvious "Pseudo" stands for the opposite.. water is wet etc..

Wouldn't it be slightly more interesting to debate how ones "Will" came to be? To provide evidence the "Will" cannot be influenced by outside sources nor learned behaviours?

I'm quite convinced no person is a blank slate without influence.. your balljerking towards the ONA is enough evidence of that.
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#109753 - 10/25/16 03:43 PM Re: Will [Re: Dimitri]
Persona non grata Offline
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Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Your dichotomy between "the numinous" and "pseuds" stands on loose screws.

Perhaps you view it as such because you have assumed that I am suggesting a dichotomy, while I am actually addressing that these are not types of people, so much as they are manners of living, the focus being the information considered, its verisimilitude, and the differences between those choices made by individuals who believe that they are their ideas, and those choices made by individuals who recognize the ideas as abstractions.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You're drawing a line, and defining groups, based on what you think are contradicting stances while conveniently ignoring the, quite heavy, philosophical question "nurture or nature?".

No, Dimitri, I am not... I'm curious if it is a custom of your people to tell others what they are thinking, or if you are just special that way. Try asking what others think, and you may have better conversations. As I said before, the only line to draw whatsoever, is drawn according to ones level of consciousness, ones awareness, not according to associations or memberships, which are simply added layers of abstraction, and extra layers of abstract identity. Nature is obviously natural, and nurture, or more specifically indoctrination, domestication, and R-complex, left brained, reactionism, is obviously abstract. What confuses the layman is that the abstract exist in countless forms, presenting themselves "options", such that many believe that a choice ought to, or needs to, be made, falling victim to the memetics, while no "option" needed to be made in the first place. Nurture is a failed concept anyway, as people turn out differently than their caretakers intended, rather commonly, which is a testament to the fact that these "ideas", these "doctrines", and these "identities" are inherently meaningless, and dwell in mindspace alone, along with money, external authority, and social statuses.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I mean really.... if the Satanic/Numinous stands for "imposement and enforcing the own will" it is quite obvious "Pseudo" stands for the opposite.. water is wet etc..

First of all, Satanism is a form, a collection of ideals embodied within a philosophy, for some a tradition, which refers to a particular acausal entity, and there is also that utterly edentulous magian counterpart manifest in the safe rebellion form of self proclaimed modern satanist. If you will question me pertaining to Satanism, do state clearly your position. As for the numinous, the Numinous Way, or the Numen, such may, or may not, be apprehended or approached in terms of Satanism. Personally, I see no reason to lens my approach to the numinous, thus my years of struggle to oppose and purge abstraction have been, are, and will continue to be, based upon freeing my Will from external influence, as much as is possible, as such is the means of attaining the nexional permutations of personal dominion, silence, clarity, and empathic resonance. You assume incorrectly, if you believe that I would force my Will upon another, outside of self defense. I would conduct myself with honor, and let be, that which I encounter.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Wouldn't it be slightly more interesting to debate how ones "Will" came to be?

In fact I am composing an essay on the interference theory of human origins. Look for it in the next several weeks.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'm quite convinced no person is a blank slate without influence.. your balljerking towards the ONA is enough evidence of that.

I'm quite convinced your are arguing against several positions which I do not hold. See "strawman fallacy".

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#109755 - 10/25/16 04:11 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
Clear evidence of a restless and unknowing/un-intelligible mind is the verbosity with which it makes its claims.
Another straight pointer is the ever-lasting nay-saying followed by uncomprehensible apologetics to proof a mood point.

Would you kindly grow some backbone and state your case clearly?
"Abstractions" is a buzzword which indicates the quite apparent "I'm fucking clueless".

 Originally Posted By: N913
As I said before, the only line to draw whatsoever, is drawn according to ones level of consciousness, ones awareness, not according to associations or memberships, which are simply added layers of abstraction, and extra layers of abstract identity.

You negate the statement you're drawing lines yet in the same response admit doing so. Make up your mind.
Apologetics all the way.

To give you a proper hint... you're stressing out "the self".
Keep it to thyself if it's personal. Especially if you claim "occult" knowledge...

 Originally Posted By: N913
If you will question me pertaining to satanism, do state clearly your position. As for the numinous, the Numinous Way, or the Numen, such may, or may not, be apprehended or approached in terms of satanism.

I question someones words and worth. Not their self-imposed labels. Do not spread knowledge if you don't have it..

 Originally Posted By: N913
In fact I am composing an essay on the interference theory of human origins. Look for it in the next several weeks.

Good for ya. Not interested.

 Originally Posted By: N913
I'm quite convinced your are arguing against several positions which I do not hold.

A donkey ain't an ass. It said so itself..
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#109758 - 10/25/16 06:14 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
 Quote:

Opulence and wealth have nothing to do with security. "Security" is security, regardless of how it is obtained. Your worldview is such that you would ignore that elephant in the room, that nation state and government which would have you believe that you couldn't sustain yourself without their assistance, or without their governing bodies. Being a slave to that paradigm, you further believe that the only way to obtain goods is according to their financial systems, because that is what they have told you to believe.


No one told me what to believe.

But I will say I DON'T WANT TO sustain myself without a society facilitated by a government. Ever seen what happens when turmoil breaks down a government? THERE'S YOUR NATURAL LAW. I am not a "mountain man". I like my nice car, I like my techno gadgets and apparel (made by Indonesian kids), and I am appreciative that I live in a place that keeps that prosperity there for me to achieve, if I want to.

I look at it like the Third Reich. An ideal of industrious work ethic and national pride. Being a contributing member of society, and even riding society of those who aren't.

Now call me a slave. Call me mundane.

 Quote:
It should be obvious to everyone exactly how flimsy and fabricated monetary system are, as they come and go, existing in any number of forms, currencies, and according to various, and ever changing, codes and laws, which demonstrate how arbitrary and fabricated those systems,


So? Did I mention my beautiful car?

 Quote:
Look at yourselves bragging about the freedom of your nations, posting about it on phones that were made by slaves, while wearing clothes that were made in a sweat-shop, talking about your loving marriages while gazing adoringly at a slave diamond on your stupid wife's finger. Keep your opulence.


Oh, did you build your own microchips, and make your sinister computer free of abstractions such as "best buy"?

I'm sure there's more, but I can't handle the clanging of those symbols anymore.




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#109759 - 10/25/16 06:50 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
XeperaEmSet Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: N913
The primary differences between the Sinister Numinous and the Pseudosatanic are made obvious in that the Sinister Numinous understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one is able to consciously dictate their own nature, to be empathetic to, and by way of empathy, acknowledge ones own connection with life on both causal and acausal strata, thus lending their efforts to their personal, and cosmic strata of, evolution, whereas the Pseudosatanic understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one seeks stasis, allowing cultural, social, and academic expectations (abstractions) to dictate their nature, bastardizing empathy, and by way of muting that capacity, sever their connection to other life, competing relentlessly and unnecessarily, causing unnecessary suffering, and lending their efforts to the climbing of career, monetary, and social ladders, and the evolution of those temporally insignificant abstractions.


This sounds a lot like the Setian ideology promoted by Aquino and agreed upon by myself. This comparison of action towards stasis, especially that specific word Stasis, may as well be straight out of the books of Webb. Part of the reason I never got on board with ONA ideology is how hardcore (or is it edgy?) it was, and now apparently you share the same philosophy as Setians. My how things change!
_________________________
http://www.orderoftheserpent.org

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#109767 - 10/26/16 01:10 AM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
No one told me what to believe.

You are mistaken. Please demonstrate a single thought of your own which is not born of social programming.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
But I will say I DON'T WANT TO sustain myself without a society facilitated by a government. Ever seen what happens when turmoil breaks down a government? THERE'S YOUR NATURAL LAW.

What you are expressing is a fear based mindset. The primal fears are the fears of darkness, predators, abandonment, and chaos. What you indicate here is a fear of chaos, because you believe the lie that people are inherently unable to be noble without being governed by impersonal government, the classic and nonsensical willful trading of liberty for "security". To feel safe you would sacrifice your own dominion, and have. The acceptance of "authority" is a belief in, and acceptance of, ones own status as a slave. I would suggest that you reassess natural Law, and primal fears, and the agendas of your great society and government. Who governs the ant, such that they are safe from chaos? Who governs the stream, such that it would flow down rather than up? Who regulates the wind? Where are the Bills and legislation whereby the bird knows the when and where of migration?

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I am not a "mountain man". I like my nice car,

You accept that you are domesticated, fenced in, and herded about, a slave owned by the great farmer in the sky? Shiny "possessions" are enough to encourage you to continue mindlessly grazing in that career pasture which had been prepared for you, that you are milked, bred, and slaughtered, at the farmers command, while you are preoccupied gazing at your own stupid reflection in the car which you have come to believe represents your human worth?

Those mountains are our natural environment. Those mountains are our home.


 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I like my techno gadgets and apparel (made by Indonesian kids), and I am appreciative that I live in a place that keeps that prosperity there for me to achieve, if I want to.

You mean that you are a willful psychopath, happy to accept the enslavement, the unnatural imprisonment, the unnecessary humiliation, and the indignity of other human beings, of children, so long as you are personally pleased. You would see others needlessly suffer in order that you would have the most shallow and momentary of pleasures, and that you are absolutely without, indeed utterly devoid of empathy or respect for any form of life, other than your own.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
Now call me a slave. Call me mundane.

You are indeed as slave, and mundane, though primarily a psychopath.


 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
It should be obvious to everyone exactly how flimsy and fabricated monetary system are, as they come and go, existing in any number of forms, currencies, and according to various, and ever changing, codes and laws, which demonstrate how arbitrary and fabricated those systems,
So? Did I mention my beautiful car?

Yes, you have mentioned that you dwell in base consciousness, and evaluate your self worth according to the accumulation of shiny trinkets.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
Look at yourselves bragging about the freedom of your nations, posting about it on phones that were made by slaves, while wearing clothes that were made in a sweat-shop, talking about your loving marriages while gazing adoringly at a slave diamond on your stupid wife's finger. Keep your opulence.
Oh, did you build your own microchips, and make your sinister computer free of abstractions such as "best buy"? I'm sure there's more, but I can't handle the clanging of those symbols anymore.

One should not evaluate potentiality according to what has been, or what is, but according to what can be. Humanity can have all the gadgets it wants, without tyranny or slavery, in fact, in an empathetic and naturally dignified world, those gadgets would express the creativity of humanity, and not the marketing of a corporation. The Technological Nomos has not achieved in two thousand years, what Exeatic Science will in ten. There are no limitations but those we accept, but you have to look to the skies, rather than at your car, to understand this.

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#109769 - 10/26/16 02:09 AM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
This could go on forever. Ok great master of all things sinister, and guru of the exeatic, I concede to you. I'll be copping out of this with cynicism.

 Quote:
You are mistaken. Please demonstrate a single thought of your own which is not born of social programming.


You first, meme monkey.

 Quote:

What you are expressing is a fear based mindset. The primal fears are the fears of darkness, predators, abandonment, and chaos. What you indicate here is a fear of chaos


Fear of darkness is not one of my faults. You may project that if you wish though. And since when is liking stable society is fear based? More inconvenience avoidance. Would I wither and suffer without it? Nope, I'd have to adapt or suffer.

Now, please explain how you aren't a subject that same government.

 Quote:
You mean that you are a willful psychopath, happy to accept the enslavement, the unnatural imprisonment, the unnecessary humiliation, and the indignity of other human beings..


You a humanitarian now? Fuck yeah, I don't know those little slave kids, and shit is outsourced, perhaps you can make a difference by nursing aids babies.

 Quote:
You are indeed as slave, and mundane, though primarily a psychopath.


Cool with me. Psychopaths have a way of being part of the upper class, and I want to be prosperous, that is the "American Dream", and I am mindfucked by nomos.

So for now I'll continue working for everything I have, accepting no handouts, and not fucking over people to get it... Well, except those poor slave children sewing soccer balls in Pakistan.

I am not Buddha, I don't want to shun wealth and go and contemplate human suffering while sitting under a tree. I want more wealth. But I'm vain and mundane.

 Quote:
Yes, you have mentioned that you dwell in base consciousness, and evaluate your self worth according to the accumulation of shiny trinkets.


And I hope to accumulate many more shiny trinkets, status objects, and live a decadent and gluttonous life.


Edited by CanisMachina42 (10/26/16 02:50 AM)
Edit Reason: Done editing

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#109770 - 10/26/16 03:57 AM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
OCD correction:

 Quote:

What you are expressing is a fear based mindset. The primal fears are the fears of darkness, predators, abandonment, and chaos. What you indicate here is a fear of chaos


Fear of darkness chaos is not one of mine. You may project that if you wish though. And since when is liking stable society fear based? More an inconvenience avoidance. Would I wither without order? Nope, I'd have to adapt or suffer.

Now, please explain how you aren't subject to that same government?

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#109808 - 10/28/16 12:34 PM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: CM
And since when is liking stable society fear based?


"Every day is exactly the same, there is no love here, and there is no pain."

Stability becomes tedious, depressing, hopeless. I've been to places where people throw random parties in the middle of the streets, light fireworks, dance and do whatever they want.

Where I live now, people don't cross until the cross walk signal tells them to, even when the street is empty.

That' twilight zone shit right there, far as I'm concerned.

*Not exactly sure if this is in the same ballpark you intended. I guess I described a dislike. A liking would be based on fear of social instability. Fear if the opposite, of the unknown.
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#109810 - 10/28/16 01:16 PM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I'll be copping out of this with cynicism.

That is unfortunate. While I disagree with your position(s), you state them quite clearly, and possess the passion so as to defend them.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
You are mistaken. Please demonstrate a single thought of your own which is not born of social programming.
You first, meme monkey.

Meme Monkey? I'd ask you not to call me that. That's Chole's as far as I'm concerned, lol. It just doesn't mean the same coming from anyone else.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
What you are expressing is a fear based mindset. The primal fears are the fears of darkness, predators, abandonment, and chaos. What you indicate here is a fear of chaos
Fear of chaos is not one of my faults. You may project that if you wish though. And since when is liking stable society is fear based? More inconvenience avoidance. Would I wither and suffer without it? Nope, I'd have to adapt or suffer.

Why didn't everyone wither and suffer before all these cities were built?

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
Now, please explain how you aren't a subject that same government.

I am subject to their guns, their thugs, and their jails, though I am not subject to their propaganda, their conventions, or their mind control.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
You mean that you are a willful psychopath, happy to accept the enslavement, the unnatural imprisonment, the unnecessary humiliation, and the indignity of other human beings..

You a humanitarian now? Fuck yeah, I don't know those little slave kids, and shit is outsourced, perhaps you can make a difference by nursing aids babies.

I have no need of the baggage which accompanies the term "humanitarian", though I will say that I have no desire to unnecessarily bring harm or suffering upon another, unless I am defending myself, or those I would protect. Given the option, I would assist those who merit my attention, rather than shame those who do not.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
You are indeed as slave, and mundane, though primarily a psychopath.
Cool with me. Psychopaths have a way of being part of the upper class, and I want to be prosperous, that is the "American Dream", and I am mindfucked by nomos.

For now, perhaps. Things do change. They could change for you.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I am not Buddha, I don't want to shun wealth and go and contemplate human suffering while sitting under a tree.

If you change your mind, I would recommend the foot hills of the North Carolinian mountains.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
Yes, you have mentioned that you dwell in base consciousness, and evaluate your self worth according to the accumulation of shiny trinkets.
And I hope to accumulate many more shiny trinkets, status objects, and live a decadent and gluttonous life.

You are not your possessions. You are not your ideas.

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#109811 - 10/28/16 02:18 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
 Quote:
Why didn't everyone wither and suffer before all these cities were built?


An aberration of population. The reason why tribal societies could sustain themselves without set legal code was their size.

Size: Dunbar's number. 150. In that setting empathetic relationships could be formed and maintained. You could get away with a small circle of "Elders" in place of government because of this. It's the same reason a town of 300 people can be peaceful with two cops.

Economy: It is usually all tied to a single industry, usually agricultural. In the case of tribes they are self sustaining. And commerce is secondary to the groups survival. Barter is currency.

Yet tribes still fought other tribes over matters of territory or empathetic transgressions (you fucked with one of us).

This all breaks down proportionality as size increases. Which is why in cities legal code *becomes* necessary. Empathy breaks down due to animal limitations and monetary systems replace barter systems.

 Quote:
I am subject to their guns, their thugs, and their jails, though I am not subject to their propaganda, their conventions, or their mind control.


And...

 Quote:
If you change your mind, I would recommend the foot hills of the North Carolinian mountains.


Locale. You feel removed from that control because you have placed yourself back into an environment where its imprint is not as visible. Head south to Charlotte and watch that break down.

I actually wrote about this once, I think, back before my blog became schizoaffective theater.

https://canismachina.wordpress.com/2014/09/04/1208/

 Quote:

You are not your possessions. You are not your ideas.


No, but I am my net worth. As this positions me to either thrive or suffer because I choose an urban big city lifestyle as opposed to the Appalachian foothills or hippie commune.

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#109818 - 10/28/16 07:41 PM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
Why didn't everyone wither and suffer before all these cities were built?
An aberration of population. The reason why tribal societies could sustain themselves without set legal code was their size.

I would argue that, not only did these tribes have their own codes of behavior, but that their sizes had little to do with it them. I would also address the issue of tribal populations being in numinous harmony and proportions with their lands, never breeding beyond their available food supplies, and never destroying their lands in order to live on them, as they lived not ON the land but WITH and AS the land, which lands they all but worshiped, knowing every animal, every herb, and the migration of every herd and flock. The land was their shelter, their doctor, their god, and their notion of time, most of therm pertained to their fathers father, and their sons son, which is to say, the here and now.

Post-State Techno-Tribal Kollectives

To properly define what Nexion 913 implies with the term ‘Tribe’, a brief commentary of the terms most common use, as displayed on Wikipedia, will be offered here, allowing us to specify exactly where we agree, disagree, and where we build upon the work of anthropologist Elman Service, adding a fifth tier to said system of classification pertaining to societies and human cultures, and director Stephen Corry. Wikipedia quotes will be underlined, whereas my commentary will not.

A tribe is viewed, historically or developmentally, as a social group existing before the development of, or outside, states.

While we understand, and will acknowledge, this use of the term ‘Tribe’, we also build upon the definition so as to include our own agenda, (Post-State tribes) which is to say, the initial and continued development of, a social group existing during or after, though independent of, or striving to become independent of, the tyranny of the nation state.

A tribe is a distinct people, dependent on their land for their livelihood, who are largely self-sufficient, and not integrated into the national society. It is perhaps the term most readily understood and used by the general public.

In the post-state context, a tribe would indicate a distinct people, who may seek a numinous land based, and folkish livelihood, though due to the nation state possessing all available resources, themselves posses little to no lands. Often nomadic, in order to avoid the confines of governmental and corporate conventions, and the inadvertent subjectivity to capitalist and consumerist societies, these individuals and kollectives go to great lengths to remove themselves from the national society. The general public, being those who are willfully subject to the confines of governmental and corporate conventions, are taught to view tribal lifestyles as being primitive, dangerous, and associated with gangs, organized crime, and terrorism, blatantly ignoring that the post-state tribe is based upon the genuine pursuit of personal honor, and refusal to accept the undignified assault, and impersonal law, of the nation state.

Stephen Corry, director of Survival International, the world’s only organization dedicated to indigenous rights, has defined tribal people as “those which have followed ways of life for many generations that are largely self-sufficient, and are clearly different from the mainstream and dominant society”.

Nexion 913 rejects these organizations and their fabricated “rights”, as they too, are abstractions issued by outsiders, which equate to that organization assuming the same position as the intrusive nation state, and doing as they please with indigenous peoples, without that peoples expressed consent. This is not to mention that such organizations are often extensions of the nation state itself, and in the event that they are not, such organizations abilities remain to be restricted by the nation states laws. Tribal peoples who value their own numinous customs, must fight their own war against the tyrannical West, who murder and enslave their peoples, cut down their forest, and rape their land.

Many people used the term “tribal society” to refer to societies organized largely on the basis of social, especially familial, descent groups (see clan and kinship).

To this end, 913 has no great history or heritage other than that our our individual drones. It is our intention to build that kollective family history, to expand our nexion, to organize and govern ourselves according to our own personal code of honor, upon our own land, to defend ourselves by way of our own noble warriors, because we are not the property of any government or corporation, because we are not slaves, and neither do we consent to the destruction of our peoples or our Homeworld. We seek to build new lives and new civilizations, to return to an Earth based lifestyle, establishing our self respect and shared numinous values. We seek to employ technology in a Eco-friendly manner, and in so far as is possible, repair the Earth before we leave the nest.

“Tribe” is a contested term due to its roots in colonialism. The word has no shared referent, whether in political form, kinship relations or shared culture. Some argue that it conveys a negative connotation of a timeless unchanging past. To avoid these implications, some have chosen to use the terms “ethnic group”, or nation instead.

This is not an issue for 913, as this very text serves the purpose of explaining our exact used of the term. It is not our goal to seek a shared political, cultural, or genetic, referent, but to define and initiate one of our own. The term ‘tribe’ carrying a negative connotation pertaining to a ‘timeless unchanging past’ within mundane paradigms is a non-issue for us, as our specific use of the term directly implies, instead, a focusing on the future. Others are free to utilize another term if they see fit, however, as 913 is multi-ethnic and anti-national, it makes more sense for us to specify a derivative of the existing term.

Considerable debate takes place over how best to characterize tribes. This partly stems from perceived differences between pre-state tribes and contemporary tribes; some reflects more general controversy over cultural evolution and colonialism.

The issue here, is perhaps, that the debate taking place does not involve those the debate concerns. The only difference between pre-state tribes and this Magian abstraction ‘contemporary tribes’ is the direct interference of that Western invasion force of Homo Hubris, and their relentless agenda to invade, infect, enslave, rape and destroy, those Earth peoples who will not conform to their capitalist system. Not one of these tribes have ever labeled themselves either ‘pre-state’ tribes or ‘contemporary’ tribes. The controversy in question pertains to the Western world interfering with the natural evolution of tribal peoples, and invading the lands and resources of those defenseless tribal people who lack adequate technological and strategic prowess so as to defend themselves.

Nexion 913 view ourselves in quite the same circumstance as these so called pre-state and contemporary tribes, only within a post-state, and post-colonialism, context. We who are born within the confines of a nation state, are without lands or resources, and we have never possessed, nor can we ever possess, any lands or resources, because any attempt to become independent of the nation state, and its impersonal law, is labeled an act of mutiny and terrorism, punishable by imprisonment and death. From time of our birth we have been branded the property of the nation state, and used as though we are a resource to be traded and consumed, rather than a sentient people in possession of our own cultural and spiritual determination. The purpose of our kollective is to become independent of the state, collecting and developing the cultural and technological resources to manifest a proper offensive and defensive position against the nation states relentless assault on our freedom and dignity. Such is the motivation of the post- state techno-tribal individual and kollective.

Anthropologist Elman Service presented a system of classification for societies in all human cultures based on the evolution of social inequality and the role of the state. This system of classification contains four categories:

Nexion 913 builds upon the Elman Service system, thus including those post-state peoples, in a fifth tier titled “Post-State Techno- Tribalism” encompassing those Nexion, Temples, and Covens, within our respective kollectives.

1. Hunter-gatherer bands, which are generally egalitarian.
2. Tribal societies in which there are some limited instances of social rank and prestige.
3. Stratified tribal societies led by chieftains (see Chiefdom).
4. Civilizations, with complex social hierarchies and organized, institutional governments.


5. Post-State Techno-Tribal Kollectives: Those indigenous peoples who have been colonized by the Western world, and those kollectives originating within the Western world, who seek to become free from, and the technological and political equals of, Western nation states, and return to, and manifest new, Earth based lifestyles, challenging and if possible defeating, the unnatural abstractions of, and impersonal law of, the Western Nation States.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
Size: Dunbar's number. 150. In that setting empathetic relationships could be formed and maintained. You could get away with a small circle of "Elders" in place of government because of this. It's the same reason a town of 300 people can be peaceful with two cops.

Its interesting that you would mention Dunbar. I'm interested in comparing the concept of Dunbar's Number with Howard Gardner theory of multiple intelligences. If you have not observed Gardner's work, Id suggest you do so. The basic overview is a theory which differentiates intelligence into specific (primarily sensory) 'modalities', rather than viewing intelligence as though it is dominated by a single all encompassing capacity. He sets a standard of eight criteria for something to qualify as an intelligence, musical-rhythmic, visual-spatial, verbal-linguistic, logical-mathematical, bodily-kinesthetic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, and naturalistic. He also approaches intelligence itself as it is a biopsychological potential, my point being that, while Dunbar was certainly on to something which is of value, comparing Dunbar's and Gardener's work in the same context, would obviously imply that Dunbar's oversimplified assumption of one hundred and fifty meaningful relationships-associations would actually be much lower for some, and much higher for other, depending upon their verbal-linguistic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal intelligences, and the extent to which they were trained to achieve that potential. I'd suggest you look in to this. Its quite interesting.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
Economy: It is usually all tied to a single industry, usually agricultural. In the case of tribes they are self sustaining. And commerce is secondary to the groups survival. Barter is currency.

There are many tribes who have no currency whatsoever, as growing ones own food and stock requires a dependence upon no one else, a concept quite alien to the American drive-through culture, producing whole generations of idiots who can hardly cook or prepare their own meals. You can say that batter if a form of currency, but I would reject that notion, and state that batter is batter. Currency is the tool of con-artist who developed a means of "taxation" which was basically designed to destroy the peoples right to conduct privately batter, and allowing unrelated and impersonal con-men to intrude upon the private affairs of those who would trade their good and skills to one another.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
This all breaks down proportionality as size increases. Which is why in cities legal code *becomes* necessary. Empathy breaks down due to animal limitations and monetary systems replace barter systems.

With all due respect, Canis, you are simply asserting this statement. That which can be asserted without evidence, and be dismissed without evidence. What evidence do you have that empathy cannot exist in large populations? What evidence do you have that a population could not thrive without a monetary system in place?

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
I am subject to their guns, their thugs, and their jails, though I am not subject to their propaganda, their conventions, or their mind control.
And...
 Originally Posted By: n913
If you change your mind, I would recommend the foot hills of the North Carolinian mountains.

Im not sure what you are getting at? Would you care to specify?

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
Locale. You feel removed from that control because you have placed yourself back into an environment where its imprint is not as visible. Head south to Charlotte and watch that break down. I actually wrote about this once, I think, back before my blog became schizoaffective theater.
https://canismachina.wordpress.com/2014/09/04/1208/

You fail to realize that I lived in Charlotte for a number of years, and in Baltimore Maryland, and wondered all over the States. I am no stranger to the city. I am removed from the control systems even in the heart of NYC. I was not addressing local, I was addressing personal dominion. I am now folloing your blog btw.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: n913
You are not your possessions. You are not your ideas.

No, but I am my net worth. As this positions me to either thrive or suffer because I choose an urban big city lifestyle as opposed to the Appalachian foothills or hippie commune.

Such is your choice. The foothills aren't going anywhere.

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#109820 - 10/28/16 09:12 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 197
The part that confuses me about ONA ideology is how you plan to simultaneously return to a primitive, pre-industrialized way of life, and establish a galactic imperium. Are you going to ride rockets of pure bullshit to other star systems and claim them for your empire?

Edited by Brother Nihil (10/28/16 09:21 PM)

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#109821 - 10/28/16 09:20 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
The main point is simple:

As population, density, and complexity of society increases ability for self governance decreases.

I'll rewrite a line from Men In Black that sums up my position:

The person has the ability for self governance, people are dumb, panicky, and unable to coexist without being told how and you know it.

Other than that, I am "unevolved" and you are an "idealist".

If our beliefs can't see eye to eye...

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#109824 - 10/28/16 09:52 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
You forget that the tribal societies are not governed by personal whims of its members or their personal codes of honor but by the customary laws. Since you worship Ms Chloe so much you should already know that honor in the tribal culture means adherence to those customary laws. Those laws are ancient, passed from generation to generation, mainly aurally. That means that you simply obey your elders.

A perfect example of an ancient tribal code of honor is Albanian Kanun. It's a set of traditional laws that are quite pedantic in nature. They regulate all aspects of an individual's life to an utmost detail. Even the rules concerning running a household are covered by this ancient law.

Another characteristic of tribal societies is a vendetta, often a bloody one. That means not only taking revenge on those who wronged you or one of your kindred. It also means that if one of your kind fucks up, you will have to stand by him even if he's guilty. Otherwise, your whole clan will suffer consequences at the hands of the clan that was wronged.

So honor in the case of tribes is not personal but tribal. It doesn't mean following your own personal code of honor that you intuited from observing butterflies dancing or saw in your glass ball. It means obeying the traditional law that was established by your ancestors and passed down to you through your elders. You don't submit to the penal code but you submit to the customary laws. All the same, you obey not your own authority but the authority of someone else.

Your post-state tribes resemble today's gangs or mafias. Those have their codes of conduct too. In any case, whenever you have a group of people living together, some rules that everyone will follow must be established and then enforced, with those who break them being punished in one way or another.
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#109827 - 10/28/16 10:36 PM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
If modern society is the result of population being too big to function as tribes did, what do you think would happen if societies were to collapse (due to climate change, WW3 or shit like that)? Would humans revert to their old ways or would they struggle to keep the system going?
_________________________
Perdition will set you free.

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#109829 - 10/29/16 01:39 AM Re: Will [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
In any dystopic society that which controls the vital necessities rises to power. This could be natural resources or even utilities. Greed transcends Armageddon.

There may even be weird beatnik kangaroo people.

That's a serious answer.

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#109833 - 10/29/16 07:31 AM Re: Will [Re: Brother Nihil]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
The part that confuses me about ONA ideology is how you plan to simultaneously return to a primitive, pre-industrialized way of life, and establish a galactic imperium. Are you going to ride rockets of pure bullshit to other star systems and claim them for your empire?

The "Return" is to our sinister nature and natural Law. I am not advocating returning to a primitive pre-industrialize way of life, I am pointing to that stage in human development whereas the Technological Nomos gives way to Exeatic Science, such that I am addressing that the primitive, which is defined as being:

(1) Not derived from something else; primary or basic, (2) Of or relating to an earliest or original stage or state; primeval, and (3) Being little evolved from an early ancestral type:

Thus I am advocating that humanity return to its ancestral roots, in order that our original evolution be resumed, and carry us into the future as a new species, in that:

(1) that our nature and evolution be not directed by, or based upon magian abstractions, (2) and once free from those abstractions, base a new educational and industrial system upon "actual science" and the conquest of space exploration, (3) having returned to our natural and instinctual ancestral pursuits, and desires, with advanced technology in hand, liberated from the limitations of monetary systems, planned obsolescence, and the proprietarization of application.

I once asked you if you would ride a campfire to Mars, stoking its flames by chanting... lol.

 Originally Posted By: Canis
The main point is simple: As population, density, and complexity of society increases ability for self governance decreases.

The only manner in which this statement would be true, lie in ones belief that they are a part of that social herd, and unable to step out of line, which obviously is untrue. My Will is such that I direct my behavior consistently among one other, ten others, or ten thousand others. The only thing that actually changes is the level of mundanes who gather to establish nomos, which is mind control and behavioral control, and yet my Will and my Mind remain to be my own. They can assign false identities to my living person (but that will not be who I am), they can imprison me (but they will not in so doing, control my Mind), they can attempt to enslave me (but they cannot break my Will), and they even kill my body (but they would not have conquered my essence). Natural Law remains regardless of those who are blind to it, and personal dominion remains, regardless of what social nomos expects of it.

 Originally Posted By: Anna
Since you worship Ms Chloe so much you should already know that honor in the tribal culture means adherence to those customary laws. Those laws are ancient, passed from generation to generation, mainly aurally. That means that you simply obey your elders.

Wait, so you read all of Choles writings, and what you took from it was: "Be good boys and girls, and always do what you are told"? You may want to go back and read it all again.

 Originally Posted By: Anna
You don't submit to the penal code but you submit to the customary laws. All the same, you obey not your own authority but the authority of someone else.

You do not submit to anything whatsoever, you adhere to natural Law, which you are an expression of, and which you express. The just Code, such as the Code of Kindred Honor, pertains to establishing such a natural way of life, a numinous cohabitation, that those ideas and behavior which are contrary to, or detrimental to, anothers natural Being, would be eliminated, the vulgar would be removed from the pure, and the ignoble removed from the honorable, such that magian abstraction, and modern social conventions would not be permitted to blind us to our natures, as they have blinded the mundane. Defending natural Law is not an impersonal establishment of legal dictation, it is an introspective acceptance of ones Being existing as a part of the cosmos, which possess the consciousness and Will to be an active and sentient agent of the cosmos and natural Law.

 Originally Posted By: Anna
Your post-state tribes resemble today's gangs or mafias. Those have their codes of conduct too.

I grew up in 8tre(107), where if you violated Crip law, you had to "Shoot the Six" which meant that you had to pick between taking on Six people for three minutes, or Three people for six minutes, and being the smart ass that I am, I Shot the Six several times, and learned rather quickly that you want the Six people for three minutes, for two reasons, the first being that three minutes is half as long no matter how badly you get your face kicked in, and because when you fight more that two people by yourself, they tend to get into one anothers way, so you are still only confronting two or three at a time, as honorable soldiers tend not to want to be that bitch that attacks a person from behind (pertaining to fellow soldiers). When you had finished, everyone formed a circle around you, turned their backs to you, and your superior would order that you "Vanish" for a period of seven to nine days, meaning that you had to either leave town, or go into hiding. If you were spotted before those days had passed, you would Shoot the Six again, and your time would start over. When you returned from your "Vanishing", your offense was not to be spoken of ever again, by anyone, and life went on.

Every gang and mafia is evidence that the Nation State can be successfully defied, overcome, and defeated. Each and every one of these gangs and mafias demonstrate that freedom is possible, that self governance is possible, should one seek it out. I do not wish to live a gangster life any longer, as I have no more desire to harm others, or to alter my mind and body with drugs, or risk long term prison sentences for rather petty crimes, however, in so living, and in further studying, I have freed my mind from the magian construct, and I would recommend that, for at least a season, every youth should live in such a manner, as pathei mathos cannot be learned in a class room. You, Anna, cannot see the difference between a gang/mafia Code, and the magian laws, because you have only lived one, and the other lies outside your realm of experience.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
If modern society is the result of population being too big to function as tribes did, what do you think would happen if societies were to collapse (due to climate change, WW3 or shit like that)? Would humans revert to their old ways or would they struggle to keep the system going?

If your society collapsed, it would not be salvageable, because you have so few who actually know how anything works. You would have countless BILLIONS of first-world crybabies bitching about not being able to connect to Facebook, others frantically obsessing over gas, and others freezing to death because despite all their Technological Nomos the average man cannot start a fire with basic woodsman skills. I would love to see your nations suffer this fate. Us "hillbilly types" as many would call us, would be fine, tucked away in the mountains, establishing a solar powered HAM radio/laptop network, sitting by a nice warm fire, belly full of dear and rabbit, with half grins as we nodded at one another, counting our ammunitions, and preparing for the military (the only other guys with our skills). ALL the rest of you would just die. It would only be a matter of months until the major cities were burning. How many of your can fix the power plant, a cell tower, the sewage system, the cable television, fix your own cars, grow and hunt your own food, or establish an internet?

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#109835 - 10/29/16 09:42 AM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Darry
ALL the rest of you would just die.


Empathy would manifest as helping those that can't help themselves, at least for a while. Until such time that people recognize their own fault in that. You may believe that most skilled "hillbillies" would just watch some little old lady freeze to death but have those beliefs popped like a balloon when shit hits the fan.

It wouldn't end there either. There would be people stepping up to show people how to do basic things to survive. That's how civilization re-establishes itself.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

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#109840 - 10/29/16 03:58 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
Yes, that tends to happen in times of crises. It's what the believer may call the "human spirit".

Personally, I give the advantage to one who has no problem with the old lady freezing to death, as they're able to exploit others and use others "empathy" to establish themselves in a position of power.

They're the ones (the politicians) that lead others to reestablish both themselves and their own will to power.

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#109841 - 10/29/16 04:26 PM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
@CM:

*I personally don't see a huge need to manipulate others. Who knows, that may change but for the time being I am almost totally focused on refining myself first and foremost.

If the group can't reach a decision, and they try to force me into compliance to something I find detrimental, they get a nice dose of the all feared 1984 totalitarian boot to the face. Not to force them under my reign, but to send the message nice and clear: I'm going my own way, now fuck off!

Fuck the group. I seldom need to manipulate other people to seek my ends. I really think this idea of controlling other people is over rated.

I suppose if you have a challenge, say climbing the corporate ladder, you may need to overcome your enemies. Manipulation might become necessary, but I ultimately find most satisfaction away from people.

On the other hand, I don't know that I'll be a hermit any time soon. I enjoy my technology, and yet, there exist only a few people I can tolerate the company of, let alone take the time to manipulate.

Controll of others is control of self, yes, but why not spend that extra time on you alone?

The more people you need to control, the more the necessity of that control is going to control you. I figure, for the most part, a system like this will eventually implode with more detrimental effects than those of benefit.



Edited by Creatura Noptii (10/29/16 04:27 PM)
Edit Reason: *
_________________________
Creatură Nopții

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#109842 - 10/29/16 04:53 PM Re: Will [Re: Creatura Noptii]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
 Quote:
I personally don't see a huge need to manipulate others. Who knows, that may change but for the time being I am almost totally focused on refining myself first and foremost.


Neither do I personally. I say indifference trending towards apathy is one of the most useful tools in the human arsenal.

My point was civilizations rise and fall by their psychopaths, or even strategies which know how to manipulate large groups and exploit emotions, if you look at the track record. How a "masterplan" can take a destitute land and turn it into a superpower.

Sometimes dynasties flourish for thousands of years and sometimes last only a decade when assets are spread to thin after megalomania overtakes strategy.


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#109848 - 10/29/16 09:08 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
You do not submit to anything whatsoever, you adhere to natural Law, which you are an expression of, and which you express.


To simplify, the tribal societies abide by the customary laws. These laws ensure continuation of tradition and culture that keep the tribe cohesive. It's something similar to the Code of Kindred Honor but more complex. Honor in the the tribal societies is by no means personal, it is supra-personal and tribal, ancient and passed aurally from generation to generation, though it might be written down later. Refusing to obey those laws means being dishonorable and entails consequences. You are a Westerner, have never lived in a tribal/collective society so you have an idealized image of tribalism that has nothing to do with the reality.

 Quote:
he just Code, such as the Code of Kindred Honor, pertains to establishing such a natural way of life, a numinous cohabitation, that those ideas and behavior which are contrary to, or detrimental to, anothers natural Being, would be eliminated, the vulgar would be removed from the pure, and the ignoble removed from the honorable, such that magian abstraction, and modern social conventions would not be permitted to blind us to our natures, as they have blinded the mundane.


The Code of Kindred Honor is just an attempt at codifying the quality of personal honor for the use of some unspecified collective. As such, it is not different from the customary laws, totally arbitrary and supra-personal. Natural? Hardly.
_________________________
Anna Czereda
O9A Meme Cat

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#109854 - 10/29/16 10:44 PM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
Nature and Capitalism are both amoral N913, so stop trying to turn the former into something it is not. I for one am beginning to appreciate the beauty and horror of Nature, so one day I hope to live closer to it and away from urban life. I did say that Capitalism is amoral, but it also breeds a kind of human I'm not really fond of: the sort that can't control their self-destructive behavior.

Why am I saying this? Because there's no point in trying to escape something that's part of Nature, you can only decide what to do about it.
_________________________
Perdition will set you free.

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#109862 - 10/30/16 12:51 PM Re: Will [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
In any given situation there's politics. Matters of the people and all that jazz. For every power move, there's an equal and opposite reaction possible. Some will follow leaders, some will lead, and the rest just want to watch it all burn.

Social Darwinism has its faults in idealism. The Will in motion often produces unexpected results. One can certainly dictate their own nature and the results aren't necessarily an evolution, nor are they required to be.

For example, do you spite the person that has never worked a day and continues to just work the system to their advantage?

 Quote:
whereas the Pseudosatanic understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one seeks stasis, allowing cultural, social, and academic expectations (abstractions) to dictate their nature, bastardizing empathy, and by way of muting that capacity, sever their connection to other life, competing relentlessly and unnecessarily, causing unnecessary suffering, and lending their efforts to the climbing of career, monetary, and social ladders, and the evolution of those temporally insignificant abstractions.



The idea that one lives by their own merits is highly regarded by some because those that have a disdain for a parasitic relationship has deemed such behavior immoral.

Counter-productive pride may also manifest as working your whole life and never living a day of it.
_________________________
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#109865 - 10/30/16 02:23 PM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
 Originally Posted By: n913
You do not submit to anything whatsoever, you adhere to natural Law, which you are an expression of, and which you express.
To simplify, the tribal societies abide by the customary laws. These laws ensure continuation of tradition and culture that keep the tribe cohesive.

Or so you would claim, without actually demonstrating a real necessity for these secondary "nature+ laws", or the continuation of the tradition or culture in question. What government regulates the flocks to keep the birds in line and on schedule? What tradition tells the dear what to eat and when? What culture has divided the day from the night, or caused the rain to fall? It would seem to me that natural Law governs itself, and without your abstractions, and so 'Will' I.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
It's something similar to the Code of Kindred Honor but more complex. Honor in the the tribal societies is by no means personal, it is supra-personal and tribal, ancient and passed aurally from generation to generation, though it might be written down later. Refusing to obey those laws means being dishonorable and entails consequences.

I'm sorry, Anna. I must have missed your post explaining exactly which tribe(s) you went to live with, studied, learned their language, and spent years interviewing and documenting, so as to become an expert on tribes and tribalism. Could you post that again, for me? Thanks.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
You are a Westerner, have never lived in a tribal/collective society so you have an idealized image of tribalism that has nothing to do with the reality.

(1) I have well documented my use of the term "Tribe" (according to a Western context) which you are ignoring, and thus arguing a strawman, and

(2) I'll just ask you again, as you are not Westerner, and because you have lived with so many tribes: I must have missed your post explaining exactly which tribe(s) you went to live with, studied, learned their language, and spent years interviewing and documenting, so as to become an expert on tribes and tribalism. Could you post that again, for me? Thank you.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
 Originally Posted By: n913
The just Code, such as the Code of Kindred Honor, pertains to establishing such a natural way of life, a numinous cohabitation, that those ideas and behavior which are contrary to, or detrimental to, anothers natural Being, would be eliminated, the vulgar would be removed from the pure, and the ignoble removed from the honorable, such that magian abstraction, and modern social conventions would not be permitted to blind us to our natures, as they have blinded the mundane.
The Code of Kindred Honor is just an attempt at codifying the quality of personal honor for the use of some unspecified collective. As such, it is not different from the customary laws, totally arbitrary and supra-personal. Natural? Hardly.

You are mistaken, Anna. Natural Law transcends logic, though elements of it can be logically understood, while others elements are known via empathy, and thus we align our thoughts, our emotions, and our actions, so as to achieve centered-ness and personal dominion, and thus we align that which is within, with that which is without, to achieve Cosmic dominion, being and Being, as above so below, as within so without, the micro in the macro, mind body and soul, circle triangle square. You are asleep.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
Nature and Capitalism are both amoral N913, so stop trying to turn the former into something it is not.

Only those who are agents of Will have moral responsibilities. Capitalism is a concept, a memeplex, which is not a living being, has no Will, and thus no obligations whatsoever. Capitalism is a system of poisoning worldviews, a system of mind control, and time control, and potential control. In the pursuit of monetary gains billions have muted their empathic capacities, and lacking monetary funding several scientific and medical advances have been hindered, such that the wealthy remain wealthy, rather than the people advancing collectively. You, Sir, are blind. The only moral responsibility you have is to oppose this system of slavery, and to obtain that gnosis which will make you free, and share it with others. Then, you will Know nature, and graduate from being to Being, from self to Self.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
I for one am beginning to appreciate the beauty and horror of Nature, so one day I hope to live closer to it and away from urban life.

I would recommend the North Carolinian foothills.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
I did say that Capitalism is amoral, but it also breeds a kind of human I'm not really fond of: the sort that can't control their self-destructive behavior.

They cannot control their self destructive for three primary reasons, (1) they do not know they lack control, because the concept of personal dominion is alien to them, thus they follow and obey, (2) they do not recognize their actions as being destructive because they have been conditioned not to VALUE anything but wealth, not even themselves, which denotes the outcome based left brained "educational" system, (3) and ultimately because their actions are encouraged, and rewarded. They are trained like dogs, working hard to achieve their treat. MIND CONTROL, I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

That a man would climb into a machine an smash down thousands of years of forest, for a single days pay, is the evidence of the Nation States mind control, and its effectiveness, and evidence that this psychopathy must be ended, but it will not be ended with bullets, nor blades, nor war whatsoever, but with gnosis, over generations and time, people regaining their manhood and womanhood, informing themselves, personal dominion, removing the illusion of divisions between us, and healing the damage which our nescience and ignorance have permitted.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
Why am I saying this? Because there's no point in trying to escape something that's part of Nature, you can only decide what to do about it.

Remove the abstractions from your perception of nature. I know what to do about it, and I suggest that you would do the same. I have no desire to "escape". Cowards run away. I will effect change right here, where I am needed, as a whisper of reason, in a tornado of psychopathy.

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#109913 - 11/01/16 03:03 AM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
Sometimes I wonder what kind of shrooms you've been smoking in order to bullshit yourself to such heights.

Few notes:

1) Seeing you have been copyrighting your own "expansion" on Service's social theory, where's your credential and documentation that supports your statements? What makes you "the expert"?

Last thing I heard was you flunking out in becoming "a great journalist" that would change the world.

2) Natural law may transcend logic. I give you that. But what makes you think such a thing as "empathy" or "emotion" will induce the great enligthenment? I believe it was due to holding up this idea that the glorious days of the great Greek philosophers came to an end. Their works and ideas only surviving by reason the Arabs took over, translated, tested and wrote commentaries, before having it spread out into Europe through Sicily and Spain.

What makes you think you can expand your knowledge by parotting others? What makes you think your quesadilla and Post-kollective tribal-thingie should be considered valid if it solely relies on emotion/empathy? It's a failed standard.

3) You talk about Capitalism as if it were a great evil. Do a quick search how different "Capitalist" countries describe their political views. You'll never get a 100% "Capitalistic" answer. Like Satanism, it's an umbrella which envelops varying ideas, stances and interests. It's more of a short-hand descriptor before moving on to the personal specifications and the personal do and don'ts... just like your philosophy (as otherwise you wouldn't have that incessant need to infinitely expand and whine when people disagree or criticism is offered).

4) You act as if a philosophy, or something as Capitalism, to be the great motivator/source behind a persons actions. Truth is, all people you will ever encounter HAVE or HAD the choice to do, or not do, what they are doing now.

As such you also have the choice. You can continue your crusade here... or you may finally own up to your ideas and make them happen.


Edited by Dimitri (11/01/16 03:05 AM)
_________________________
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#109924 - 11/01/16 02:42 PM Re: Will [Re: Dimitri]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Sometimes I wonder what kind of shrooms you've been smoking in order to bullshit yourself to such heights.

My own ventures are not nearly as important as spreading the information by which others may expand their own minds, and as my work does focus upon the collective human psyche, I would recommend everyone study this; http://reset.me/ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0 As Above So Below, As Below So Above.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
1) Seeing you have been copyrighting your own "expansion" on Service's social theory, where's your credential and documentation that supports your statements? What makes you "the expert"? Last thing I heard was you flunking out in becoming "a great journalist" that would change the world.

I have copyrighted nothing whatsoever. My credentials lie in that I am a living Being, aware of myself and my environment. The documentation lie in the existence of gangs, mafias, and all manner of countercultural organizations. I have not claimed expertise, I have made an observation, and classified it according to my own philosophical framework. I actually dropped out of college while at the top of my class, because I took issue with Broadcasting Law and Ethics, which were not ethical, and which legality I refuse to recognize. My degree was being ransomed under the threat of writing things that I did not believe, and behaving in a manner not in accordance with my notion of ethics, and so I left. I believe that information should be free, and I will not participate in the hiding or occulting of it. I may change the world yet, though thus far I have informed and changed myself.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
2) Natural law may transcend logic. I give you that. But what makes you think such a thing as "empathy" or "emotion" will induce the great enligthenment? I believe it was due to holding up this idea that the glorious days of the great Greek philosophers came to an end. Their works and ideas only surviving by reason the Arabs took over, translated, tested and wrote commentaries, before having it spread out into Europe through Sicily and Spain.

I have not claimed that empathy or emotion will induce enlightenment. I have addressed the factual evidence that the muting of empathy, and the manipulation of emotions, have drastically altered human cultures, and fooled humanity into denying its own nature, having become enraptured to trivial and superficial nonsense, which nonsense is propagated and encouraged so as to keep the masses in base consciousness, domesticated, controllable, fearful, and submissive. The Greek culture came to an end, the philosophy endures. It matters little what form the essence takes, as civilizations come and go, thus the mundane obsess with abstractions, dying along with their conventions, and Adepts place their focus upon the motivating Mind, the acausal, transcending the temporally insignificant with their aeonic works.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
What makes you think you can expand your knowledge by parotting others? What makes you think your quesadilla and Post-kollective tribal-thingie should be considered valid if it solely relies on emotion/empathy? It's a failed standard.

I parrot no one, unless they have stated something which I have tested, and discovered to be true. I am happy to repeat the truth, and seriously doubt that those whom I have observed, were stating only their own original ideas. There is nothing new under the sun. My "Queastellyeah" and "Post-State Techno-Tribal Kollectives" are not something which I have sought to make 'valid' or socially 'acceptable' in the minds of others. They are my own observations, which another may or may not observe for themselves, and which have nothing to do whatsoever with emotion or empathy. Your understanding of my claims is horribly flawed.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
3) You talk about Capitalism as if it were a great evil. Do a quick search how different "Capitalist" countries describe their political views. You'll never get a 100% "Capitalistic" answer. Like Satanism, it's an umbrella which envelops varying ideas, stances and interests. It's more of a short-hand descriptor before moving on to the personal specifications and the personal do and don'ts... just like your philosophy (as otherwise you wouldn't have that incessant need to infinitely expand and whine when people disagree or criticism is offered).

Capitalism is a great 'evil', should we understand 'evil' to imply that it is unnatural, limits and destroys natural resources, enslaves freedom, distorts the numinous, and promotes psychopathy above natural Law. I am not concerned with the dynamics of, or the debates between verities of, psychopathic corporations, but their being dismantled and destroyed. Neither am I concerned with "Satanism" which equally diversifies itself so as to escape any serious criticism. If more than one definition leads to more than one indication, and the adherent can flip-flop between all the nooks and cranies in order to never be wrong, it is a pompous, pointless, and ill productive process of wordplay and nonsense. I would be direct, and specify with exacting clarity, my purpose, such as I have with Nexion 913. Your capitalism and Satanism exist on borrowed time, within a dream which will end when humanity awakens. And humanity will awaken.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
4) You act as if a philosophy, or something as Capitalism, to be the great motivator/source behind a persons actions. Truth is, all people you will ever encounter HAVE or HAD the choice to do, or not do, what they are doing now.

Mind is the only source of genesis. What we think, we create. The reason that the media relentlessly reinforces the capitalist concepts, religious concepts, and nationalistic concepts, racial, sexual, and generational concepts, is because they UNDERSTAND that to form the Mind is to form the reality. If they can make people believe in those concepts, the people will produce that WORLD. This is a sorcery which you cannot see, because you are subject to it. This is NOT the world you live in, this IS the world you have created. This is the effect plane of the aggregate human psyche, the result of your belief, of everyones beliefs, and I would have all that are able, to withdraw their attention from the effect, and instead consider the cause, the Mind, and address what is believe and why, because at that moment, the creation, and thus the future, become our own.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
As such you also have the choice. You can continue your crusade here... or you may finally own up to your ideas and make them happen.

I have made my choice. My crusade Will never end. My thoughts are manifesting the exact creation intended.

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#109925 - 11/01/16 03:19 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
In short.. you only have your opinion and nothing else to rely on.
Talk about bias. Especially in relation to this "Gnosis" and Numinosity you continue riling on about.

 Originally Posted By: N913
I parrot no one, unless they have stated something which I have tested, and discovered to be true. I am happy to repeat the truth, and seriously doubt that those whom I have observed, were stating only their own original ideas

Should I start highlighting names for future reference?
A small reminder of this (other) little blunder you just made?

It seems your ideas only make sense when approved logic (education, established science,..) is thrown straight into the garbage bin.

Honestly, if Christian preachers aren't welcome here due to their inane dribble and "preachy" attitude than why the fuck are you still around?

You have nothing to offer and just managed to state all your observations and "knowledge" are mere opinion without any fucking back-up.
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#109926 - 11/01/16 03:46 PM Re: Will [Re: Dimitri]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Honestly, if Christian preachers aren't welcome here due to their inane dribble and "preachy" attitude than why the fuck are you still around?

My presence here bothers you that much? Interestingly enough, I would have no issue with a Christian Priest being here, or any manner of Priest, because I, Dimitri, do not fear them, and I can Willfully and Knowledgeably interpret, process, account for, and refute, their claims. I welcome them openly. You are welcome to hide from them, if you please.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You have nothing to offer and just managed to state all your observations and "knowledge" are mere opinion without any fucking back-up.

I can state my position without cussing and becoming emotional, at least. Perhaps you would be so kind as to state exactly that criteria by which you personally feel a member should be judged, or should be forced to 'offer' in order to qualify for membership here?

I should note- This would not be the first time that you have failed to make a decent argument for your position, and have instead ran to The 600 Club administration and requested that I, or my post, be removed, as though anyone who disagrees with Dimitri must be utterly removed from this network. Interesting.

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#109937 - 11/02/16 02:48 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
You state your position by always asserting a negative and re-wording/modifying your stance.

You have never, or ever could, be able to own up your position 'cause you're a bloody coward. I'm pretty sure that if Chloe or whatever other ONA shmuck came walking in you'll be complying with them with every twist and turn and, as a real weasel, use all kinds of formal acknowledgements in order to get your bloody shit noticed. The signal of a true beta-bitch who only has servitude to offer.

Your attitude bothers me. I simply gag when I see, what's supposed to be, a man in knee-bended position proclaiming "enlightenment" when all that is offered is vacuous opinion and sheep-mentality.

Am I afraid of priests or the religious zealot? No. But I tend to like my home clean and proper. Which implies shit stays in the designated area (toilet) and not spread-out on every wall and floor. And, like my home, I'm pretty much a fan of showing people the door when I do not welcome them. (In short, get back to your wordpress and stay there... but I'm assuming, like much of the links in the side-bar, the amount of external activity is likely dead).

This place has, and/or had, standards. I'm a fan of re-enforcing them. Shit like you've been spewing around would have been shred to pieces and idiots like yourself shown the door.

Go fuck yourself.


Edited by Dimitri (11/02/16 02:50 PM)
_________________________
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#109939 - 11/02/16 03:20 PM Re: Will [Re: Dimitri]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You state your position by always asserting a negative and re-wording/modifying your stance.

No Sir. I have logically laid out the exact nature of my position, rather than simply asserting it, like yourself. I would remind you, that which can be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence. Such is the necessity in explaining ones position when in possession of experience, and such is the necessity of possessing that experience if one would participate in discussions of that nature.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You have never, or ever could, be able to own up your position 'cause you're a bloody coward.

Argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'm pretty sure that if Chloe or whatever other ONA shmuck came walking in you'll be complying with them with every twist and turn and, as a real weasel, use all kinds of formal acknowledgements in order to get your bloody shit noticed.

Indeed? That must be why I have been at odds with them, publicly, and for nearly seven years now, specifically because I do not bow and comply? You would do quite well to leave Chloe out of this.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
The signal of a true beta-bitch who only has servitude to offer.

I imaging that I'd be wasting my breath if I were to request your evidence for this claim? You have become not only illogical, but quite vulgar as well. Its unbecoming.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Your attitude bothers me. I simply gag when I see, what's supposed to be, a man in knee-bended position proclaiming "enlightenment" when all that is offered is vacuous opinion and sheep-mentality.

Is there a specific issue that you would care to address? I'm sorry that my philosophy has hurt your feelings, Dimitri, but nothing I have to say has cause such a reaction in anyone other than yourself.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Am I afraid of priests or the religious zealot? No. But I tend to like my home clean and proper. Which implies shit stays in the designated area (toilet) and not spread-out on every wall and floor.

I am not aware that you own The 600 Club? Is this network your "Home"? Are these forums your own to dictate and command? Is this The Dimitri Club, or are you perhaps overstepping your bounds?

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
And, like my home, I'm pretty much a fan of showing people the door when I do not welcome them. (In short, get back to your wordpress and stay there...

Should all who disagree with Dimitri have their 600 Club memberships revoked? Why should anyone here concern themselves with your having "welcomed" them or not? What authority do you claim? I quite like it here, and I think I'll just stay.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
But I'm assuming, like much of the links in the side-bar, the amount of external activity is likely dead).

Assumption is all that you seem to possess.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
This place has, and/or had, standards. I'm a fan of re-enforcing them. Shit like you've been spewing around would have been shred to pieces and idiots like yourself shown the door.

The standard will be elected by the aggregate mentality and determination of expression. The All is Mind.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Go fuck yourself.

And a good day to you, Sir.


Edited by N913 (11/02/16 03:27 PM)

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#109949 - 11/03/16 03:09 AM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
 Originally Posted By: N913
No Sir. I have logically laid out the exact nature of my position, rather than simply asserting it, like yourself.

And as such you daintly have proven my point in a mere 2 sentences.

 Originally Posted By: N913
Indeed? That must be why I have been at odds with them, publicly, and for nearly seven years now, specifically because I do not bow and comply? You would do quite well to leave Chloe out of this.

Claims to not comply but immediatly gets to the defense of 1 mentioned name.
At odds? Barely so.

 Originally Posted By: N913
I imaging that I'd be wasting my breath if I were to request your evidence for this claim? You have become not only illogical, but quite vulgar as well. Its unbecoming.

Indeed. I do not shy away using more course language. It comes with having overcome the ego and not caring what kind of image is being laid out... unlike you.
You want evidence? See above. Your character and actions already contradict the words you're using.

As for the rest. You get the analogy. You have my stance.
Don't like it? Too bad. Perhaps you can write a new emotionally laden topic?
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#109983 - 11/04/16 04:11 PM Re: Will [Re: Dimitri]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I do not shy away using more course language. It comes with having overcome the ego and not caring what kind of image is being laid out... unlike you.

Actually, in overcoming the lower ego/self, the higher Self comes to realize the baseness of the lower selfs image, and the projection of it. The higher Self observes, and learns to navigate that plane of causation, rather than being bound to the plane of effects. In fact, it is the lower self which does not "care", and the higher Self which does.

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#110071 - 11/07/16 01:34 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
Roll that wonderful bean footage...

 Originally Posted By: Darry
in that the Sinister Numinous understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one is able to consciously dictate their own nature, to be empathetic to, and by way of empathy, acknowledge ones own connection with life on both causal and acausal strata, thus lending their efforts to their personal, and cosmic strata of, evolution, whereas the Pseudosatanic understand the “Will” to be a capacity whereby one seeks stasis, allowing cultural, social, and academic expectations (abstractions) to dictate their nature, bastardizing empathy, and by way of muting that capacity, sever their connection to other life, competing relentlessly and unnecessarily, causing unnecessary suffering, and lending their efforts to the climbing of career, monetary, and social ladders, and the evolution of those temporally insignificant abstractions.


Another way to put it is, due to Empathy, the admins here (in conjunction with long-term members) have decided that your posts are distinct as a social tactic. Just because you've deployed a tactic, doesn't mean it's going to just blow over the heads of members. The 600 Club has published its standard though, it's really up to users to uphold it. Some users here tend to blame 'absentee landlords' and would like to see the site shut down and go away. While others instead work on their own posting habits and even more others, just don't care enough aside to post when it suits them. The quality of the content is subjective. If there were in fact this social climbing aspect and PseudoSatanic manifestation represented here; you'd think most of the members would be working double-time to ensure the merits of the site aren't lost to the old archives, eh? That they would simply OBEY, Conform, Follow the Rules, etc. instead of the constant need for reminders of what they are.




 Quote:
as though anyone who disagrees with Dimitri must be utterly removed from this network. Interesting.



If this were in fact the case, many users here still active would be long gone. The backroom is still active so I'm sure many of these issues are aired there and yet, accounts just don't disappear because someone has voiced a grievance. Contacting an admin isn't always a matter of calling the cops either. As volunteers, they do have other functions.

Who knew being Super-sinister came with so much menstrual whining. *shrugs*


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#110072 - 11/07/16 06:07 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Who knew being Super-sinister came with so much menstrual whining.


La Femme Fatale, you should menstruate straight into the river if you want to be sinister. \:\)

Darryl vs the 600 Club reminds me of a recent affair with our Nazis. Or our patriotic Nationalists, call them what you want. Recently, they have organized a protest before the Polish residence of fapbook, during which they demanded the freedom of speech on fapbook. The reason for this was that fapbook moderators deleted all their fanpages and banned all the most outspoken Nazis for violating the terms of service. The Nazis thought it was unfair, that it was censorship and argued that the fapbook tolerates only the leftist and Jewish point of view and discriminates the conservative users. Oh and let's not forget that Zuckerberg is a Jew.

When asked by some journalists what they need the Jewish platform for, they answered: "self-promotion." Do ligt der hunt bagrobn. This is where the dog is buried. דאָ ליגט דער הונט בּאַגראָבּן \:\)

So this is where the Will comes in. What's stopping these people to excel Zuckerberg and build their own platform, which will be better than fapbook? Is this the lack of money? The lack of tech skills? The lack of social and marketing skills? If so, then whose fault is this?
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#110073 - 11/07/16 06:13 PM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
"Fapbook", as you call them, band myself and my comrades as well, for the same reason, some years back. Ali did a whole piece on the issue on her blog, screen caps and all. My friend across the ocean, one Mr. Flemming, was involved therein. Good times.
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#110088 - 11/08/16 10:04 AM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Darry
Darryl vs the 600 Club reminds me of a recent affair with our Nazis.


I think the point being made here is that rather than being forced to change his nature, he remains the same. Even if some particular insights have changed. We all change our minds about things over time but that's not the same thing as having a static nature.

Mods tend to put Darry in time-out but he comes back. You have stated several times that you are glad when he returns. Is it because of his nature to stir the activity here? Perhaps the subject matter?

We don't have to agree with the things he says and does, to see the value represented in dipping a dirty finger in the holy water.


Sort of like that Jason King fellow ;\)
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#110100 - 11/08/16 07:07 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
You have stated several times that you are glad when he returns. Is it because of his nature to stir the activity here? Perhaps the subject matter?


True. I like quibbling with him and not only him but what I was saying was that whining about forum/network rules is pointless, counterproductive and childish even if one thinks those rules suck. It's like bitching about one's mom and dad while staying at their house and eating their food. It's what kids do.

It's not about obedience either. You mentioned several times an ability to navigate the territory. This is what it boils down to. You can't promote yourself here but you can promote yourself here. This sentence is not nonsense. I get plenty of referrals to my blog from 600 Club. I get them every day. People actually read it because they comment on it either in public or in private. Usually, it's a positive feedback. There is no need to pimp one's blog desperately several times a day because it is likely to piss people off. Something about minding the audience.
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Anna Czereda
O9A Meme Cat

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#110123 - 11/09/16 11:01 AM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
There is no need to pimp one's blog desperately several times a day because it is likely to piss people off. Something about minding the audience


And oh my, if people get annoyed right? It may be curbed a bit by admins but it doesn't exactly stop him from doing it right?

I don't see the issue. To complain about it just stinks the same.
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#110126 - 11/09/16 11:30 AM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
@N913: How much of this is your own will, and how much of it is this cult I wonder?

Just curious.
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Creatură Nopții

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#110137 - 11/09/16 08:18 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
And oh my, if people get annoyed right? It may be curbed a bit by admins but it doesn't exactly stop him from doing it right?

I don't see the issue. To complain about it just stinks the same.


No, you understood me wrong. I'm not bothered personally by his shameless self-promotion. I think it's simply counterproductive to post something that will be deleted anyway if you can do that in a more subtle way. I've been on several forums and social networks and nowhere have the rules been altered because of users' habitual complaints. It's like bitching about the rain or mosquitoes. Pointless really.
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Anna Czereda
O9A Meme Cat

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#110144 - 11/09/16 10:37 PM Re: Will [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
@N913: How much of this is your own will, and how much of it is this cult I wonder? Just curious.

Your curiosity is most welcome, Sir. ONA, such that I apprehend it, and such as I have used and employed its philosophy and praxis, is not a 'cult', but rather a program, or a test, of sorts. One, who is very likely already so inclined, may activate that program, or take that test, in order to explore, not the ONA, but themselves, according to that means of valuation, such that the results be evaluated, ones own being be evaluated, beyond mind-space and the base ego. I say 'already inclined' because nearly all who would thus commit, possess the desire to do so, they resonate with such ideology, long before discovering, or employing, ONA.

Despite all the millions of pages of pompous nomeclature, and especially despite those who would invert the ONA, it is a system of overcoming the ego, rather than the glorifying of it by way of secret questions, inner circles, or hiding the truth from "lesser people" (all notions supported by base ego, and the domestic psyche). It is a means by which to become aware of the structure of the mind, to explore the psyche, and rise above the influence of petty suggestion, restoring the Will, and becoming adept (possessing dominion of ones own Higher Self).

And so where does the ONA stop, and I begin, such as you curiosity would question? My Will is such that due to resonance, I have discovered and explored ONA, so as to explore and discover the nature of my personal Being, and so I have. Having now fulfilled that evaluation to my satisfaction, I would continue the evolution of The Numinous Way, building upon the foundation established by David Wulsatn Myatt, and continue the manifestation of his, and my own, approach to the nature of the aggregate Being, and so I am. As above, so Below. As Below, so Above.

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#110153 - 11/10/16 11:21 AM Re: Will [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
I wasn't referring to you personally. Just complaining here on the forum in general (I've seen it come from users here). Perhaps for Darry it's a numbers game. If say, 2/10 links are removed by Admin, that's an acceptable loss ;\)
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#110155 - 11/10/16 12:04 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
What numbers game is it that you believe me to play? There are perhaps 10 active members here, and 200 or so stalkers. I am certainly known to them all by now. And what 2/10 links? I have exactly two links whatsoever, pertaining to my past writings, and my new writings.

It is odd how several people have nearly no post of their own, and yet complain about any of my activity, such as they would have this forum stagnant and silent, or populated only with talk of movies, food, and tattoos (Facebook talk).

Not to mention that I have not been around NEARLY as long as Michael who constantly pimps five page long copies of shit he wrote 30 years ago, and nobody says a thing, not to mention I have perhaps half the content he has, and not to mention that the admins do nothing when he post stupid photos that screw up the forum, but they have banned others for the same... and at the end of the day you would claim that it is I who am whining.

This is quite amusing. No double standards here at all.


Edited by N913 (11/10/16 12:05 PM)

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#110156 - 11/10/16 12:06 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
Are you sure this ego is real and how do you know it needs to be overcome, and what has this ONA helped you uncover about yourself that you wouldn't otherwise?

I've asked myself these questions in reflecting on my life, or a philosophy of any kind. For me it depends on the subject and experience therein.

I once thought happiness was the all end goal to life, so many moons ago, and now one might call me bitter, but I'm stronger having embraced and accepted parts of myself I never did before in the same quality or quantity I do now.

Maybe its time, or even biological growth, perhaps the two are merged in experience.

Accepting a life of solitude seemed like a never ending hardship years ago. It is now a desired preference.
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#110160 - 11/10/16 07:31 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Despite all the millions of pages of pompous nomeclature, and especially despite those who would invert the ONA, it is a system of overcoming the ego, rather than the glorifying of it by way of secret questions, inner circles, or hiding the truth from "lesser people" (all notions supported by base ego, and the domestic psyche).


The O9A secret questions got a bad fame after being used by the self-proclaimed guardians of the Tradition to discredit those whom they had personal beef with. However, this is not the purpose of the questions. All those secret questions, tests, games and riddles exist to raise your level of intelligence and erudition, to exercise your brain and make you look for things, getting more knowledge and insight in the process. Similarly, the things that are left unsaid are there for you to figure out for yourself, based on your study and experience. The mythos is there not to educate you but make you wonder and speculate, thus enhancing your creativity.

Those who say they managed to overcome their ego are hypocritical at best or delusional at worst. You will transcend your ego once you're dead. It is possible to weaken it a little bit or forget about it for a moment through some spiritual practices (even the Internal Adept rite serves this purpose) but such an experience is fleeting, the so-called symbolic metaphysical death. You wouldn't be able to function without the ego, let alone run around WordPress, preaching to the sinister bloggers. Shattering of the ego and becoming one with Being means simply... death.
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Anna Czereda
O9A Meme Cat

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#110167 - 11/10/16 11:32 PM Re: Will [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Are you sure this ego is real and how do you know it needs to be overcome,

I am certain that the psyche and the ego are real, as I was once far more subject to them than I am now, and I work to become further liberated, and likely always will. The subconsciousness will react to stimuli whether or not you are aware of it (and others certainly are). I would overcome, to the extent of my ability, the reactionary elements of base ego, and the plane of effects, and dwell instead in the Higher Will, on the plane of causation. I would dictate and manifest my experience, rather than endure the experience forced upon me by anothers Will. You will always be dictated by the Higher Will. The question is, will it be your own. I would answer, Yes.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
and what has this ONA helped you uncover about yourself that you wouldn't otherwise?

Nothing. The work is, and has only been, my own. The ONA is a map, a set of practices and experimentation, trials, and philosophies. I would note also that these are not unique unto the ONA, as ONA is itself a collection of preexisting systems, ideals, and trials, from several other Orders. I have studied other systems, to greater or less degrees, and for now I continue the Numinous Way. I would not that having lived a particular kind of life, much of what I found to be suggested within ONA, I had already personally experienced. I grew up living my own version of the 7FW, and so I have not become the sycophant that many others have. I have lived this. I have not worshiped it. I have grown from it. I have not grown it.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
I've asked myself these questions in reflecting on my life, or a philosophy of any kind. For me it depends on the subject and experience therein.

I have no use for subjective "truths".

 Originally Posted By: Anna
The O9A secret questions got a bad fame after being used by the self-proclaimed guardians of the Tradition to discredit those whom they had personal beef with. However, this is not the purpose of the questions.

I am aware of this, but at this point in time only the childish elements of that "beef" remain. Its a game of na na, na boo boo, I know something you don't know, ha ha, ha ha ha... ONA in many regards has faceplanted into nonsense. I would discover and share knowledge, not conceal it. Thus I am currently engaged in a debate pertaining to this topic, with an associate, and I do defend such sentiment.

 Originally Posted By: Anna
Shattering of the ego and becoming one with Being means simply... death.

In this we disagree.

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#110179 - 11/11/16 10:46 AM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
I am certain that the psyche and the ego are real, as I was once far more subject to them than I am now


Aren't you just attaching words to an experience? You say you've experienced ego, but what I'm getting here is that you've changed your perspective based on new, changing acquired experience and knowledge.

Isn't this higher being of yours just another perspective, a different focus and acknowledgement of information?

 Quote:
have no use for subjective "truths".


How do you get the conclusion of subjective truth out of what I said? I said I ask myself questions pertaining to the reality of something, particularly philosophy or any belief, and more importantly, how my experience has influenced my character, thought, and overall self interest.

I've also read on this forum that everything in this life is subjective, since everyone has a unique set of events. Some more than others, but all unique. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, you've all but demanded hypothetical responses in another thread. Yet you say you have no need for subjective truths. Wouldn't these responses differentiate from person to person based on subjective variables? I speak of those individual experiences and personal knowledge, or gnosis, as others might put it.

What say?
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#110209 - 11/12/16 05:33 AM Re: Will [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
 Originally Posted By: n913
I am certain that the psyche and the ego are real, as I was once far more subject to them than I am now
Aren't you just attaching words to an experience?

Sure I am. Isn't that the function of language, to convey experience with words? What else would you expect on a forum designed to convey words and experience? Of course I am.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
You say you've experienced ego, but what I'm getting here is that you've changed your perspective based on new, changing acquired experience and knowledge.

And? Thats how learning and maturation work. Whats the problem. You are just explaining how an explanation works, and ignoring my point to obsess on the nature of language. Why?

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Isn't this higher being of yours just another perspective, a different focus and acknowledgement of information?

Not at all. The issue here is the Higher Will. Base consciousness and the self-ego are subject to the influence of all manner of stimuli which dictate their thoughts and behavior, while the Higher consciousness thus Higher Self recognize that stimuli for what it is and continue to make their own informed decisions. The information and stimuli are the same, though the Will is not, thus you have (ego < dominion).

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
I've also read on this forum that everything in this life is subjective, since everyone has a unique set of events. Some more than others, but all unique. What are your thoughts on this?

Nonsense. There is one natural Law, and it is consistent and unchanging. Within natural Law there are consequence for your actions. How you feel about those consequence does not change the result of your actions. Cause and Effect are not altered by "feelings" or thinking oneself to be "unique".

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Also, you've all but demanded hypothetical responses in another thread.

Demanded is perhaps a melodramatic word. I would say 'requested'. I believe that it was Aristotle who said that it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Seems there are no educated minds here on 600, as no one can entertain simple hypothetical notions.

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#110222 - 11/12/16 05:44 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
And? Thats how learning and maturation work. Whats the problem. You are just explaining how an explanation works, and ignoring my point to obsess on the nature of language. Why?


I do find language and human speech fascinating to a degree. How one chooses their words influences a particular response, and this response is then directed back at the original messenger, with familiar, and often new information. One decides what words work and what words do not, based on their experience and developing preference.

I just wonder if there is 'ego' and 'higher being.' Labels for different quantities and qualities of data, varying forms of interpreted and subjectively processed information from one person to the next.

'Higher being' just doesn't cut it for me as an accurate descriptor. Quite abstract when you see the label for what it is.

 Quote:
There is one natural Law, and it is consistent and unchanging.


I doubt that very much, it depends on the natural law, and seeing reality as 'one natural law' sounds a bit silly if you ask me.

Things do change, while others remain consistent, yes, I agree thus far.

 Quote:
Within natural Law there are consequence for your actions. How you feel about those consequence does not change the result of your actions. Cause and Effect are not altered by "feelings" or thinking oneself to be "unique".


*What you feel will often dictate what you think and vice versa, and what you do in spite of your so called higher will. People know better, and repeat mistakes, and what you think will happen despite your logical planning so often turns out quite unexpected.

I don't see a great schism between logic and emotion, these are interconnected parts of the human being. They function together, even when you believe yourself to be working past your emotions, they still exist, and I don't believe that humans are ever 'unemotional.'

 Quote:
it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.


Well in thinking on any given thought you are in a way accepting it. What got me is that you say you have no "need." Surly you do have some need if the question is asked, no?

Whether or not you agree to any given answer is neither here nor there in light of this.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (11/12/16 05:54 PM)
Edit Reason: *
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#110230 - 11/13/16 04:40 AM Re: Will [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
I just wonder if there is 'ego' and 'higher being.'

Yes. There is a gradation between those who are confined to the reactionism of stimuli, and those who are aware of the stimuli and thus free from its influence. Base consciousness < Higher consciousness. Base ego < Higher Self/Will. Focusing upon the plane of Effects < Focusing upon the plane of Causation.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
'Higher being' just doesn't cut it for me as an accurate descriptor. Quite abstract when you see the label for what it is.

I have made my case, how about you make yours? What abstraction blinds me? What can't I see?

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
 Originally Posted By: n913
There is one natural Law, and it is consistent and unchanging.
I doubt that very much, it depends on the natural law, and seeing reality as 'one natural law' sounds a bit silly if you ask me. Things do change, while others remain consistent, yes, I agree thus far.

Im not certain that you and I are having the same conversation. You think its silly but you agree also? If the Law of the Cosmos is not consistent, what do you suggest is changing, and how has it changed?

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
 Originally Posted By: n913
Within natural Law there are consequence for your actions. How you feel about those consequence does not change the result of your actions. Cause and Effect are not altered by "feelings" or thinking oneself to be "unique".
What you feel will often dictate what you think and vice versa, and what you do in spite of your so called higher will. People know better, and repeat mistakes, and what you think will happen despite your logical planning so often turns out quite unexpected.

This will very likely be our last conversation. You have no grasp of context whatsoever. If you feel like you can fly, go jump off a cliff. Natural Law will sort you right out, lol.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
 Originally Posted By: n913
it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Well in thinking on any given thought you are in a way accepting it.

Yes. This is in fact our last conversation...

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#110234 - 11/13/16 09:57 AM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 922
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Yes. There is a gradation between those who are confined to the reactionism of stimuli, and those who are aware of the stimuli and thus free from its influence.


Like I said, all you're doing is changing how you think and react to information based on new experiences and new information. You only know your 'higher will' in comparison to what it was before lacking the information you have now.

How do you suppose you are free from stimuli and influence? I doubt that. If the blood flows, the flesh grows, and you are a captive within its limits!

 Quote:
What abstraction blinds me? What can't I see?


See my above response if you still hold this question.

 Quote:
Im not certain that you and I are having the same conversation. You think its silly but you agree also? If the Law of the Cosmos is not consistent, what do you suggest is changing, and how has it changed?


If gravity is your 'all one and only natural law' consider that its effects vary from thing to thing. While some aspects of reality seem consistent, they are in fact ever changing. Perhaps this is what you mean? Far as I can tell, the only consistency is change.

 Quote:
If you feel like you can fly, go jump off a cliff. Natural Law will sort you right out, lol.


I agree, gravity will mess your flying plans, unless you have a rocket pack attached to your back when you jump off. It is also nature in which people do crazy things. In any case, emotions and logic always play together, I don't believe they are separated. Logic isn't always what one might call 'sensible.'

Despite you're vague claim of natural law, people still feel and act on their emotions. I agree that educating yourself can aid in more effective decision making, which I suppose is your goal.

There is a point between agreement and acceptance.
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#110293 - 11/15/16 12:49 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: N913
What numbers game is it that you believe me to play?


Just as I stated. Over a period of time, if you plant say 6 links and 2 are removed by Admin as spam - then it's an acceptable loss.

 Quote:
There are perhaps 10 active members here,


Yet, you continue to plant links for the gallery? As you said, you're a familiar, it's not like we don't know where to find you, your writing and all of its previous carnations in the archives.

 Quote:
and 200 or so stalkers. I am certainly known to them all by now. And what 2/10 links? I have exactly two links whatsoever, pertaining to my past writings, and my new writings.


If not for Facebook you probably wouldn't have as many 'stalkers' by just populating a Wordpress. Numbers game.


 Quote:

It is odd how several people have nearly no post of their own, and yet complain about any of my activity,
Equivocation. Users here aren't required to post, in fact they can be members for years and just read the engagements. If there are complaints, I can only guess it's a pallet issue. You can't possibly appeal to every user's flavor of content.



 Quote:
such as they would have this forum stagnant and silent, or populated only with talk of movies, food, and tattoos (Facebook talk).
It wasn't stagnant before you started posting up again. There are forums dedicated to these subjects because you'd think that seasoned Left-handers would have other conversational interests aside beating an already dead horse. 600 has Necromancers too !


 Quote:

Not to mention that I have not been around NEARLY as long as Michael who constantly pimps five page long copies of shit he wrote 30 years ago, and nobody says a thing,
False. They most certainly do say things, even voicing complaints and snark when he plugs his works. He does maintain a fan base and has earned the respect of quite a few users here. None of which requires your agreement.



 Quote:
not to mention I have perhaps half the content he has, and not to mention that the admins do nothing when he post stupid photos that screw up the forum, but they have banned others for the same... and at the end of the day you would claim that it is I who am whining.

This has been explained ad nauseum here, check the archives. Aquino receives special considerations because the club admins feel as though he's earned it. All those emoticons and cartoon graphics serve a purpose in his communication style. Even if you find them distasteful.

 Quote:
This is quite amusing. No double standards here at all.


I wouldn't call it a double-standard but rather an unorthodox one. If you have beef with it, something tells me you're salty about it for reasons you're not willing to admit. At least not here on the forum.

xoxoxo


Edited by SIN3 (11/15/16 12:53 PM)
Edit Reason: Will is funny like that.
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#110337 - 11/17/16 01:25 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Over a period of time, if you plant say 6 links and 2 are removed by Admin as spam - then it's an acceptable loss.

I have exactly two links... One to my Wordpress, and one to my Archives.org. Please name these "six" links you are going on about.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
your writing and all of its previous carnations in the archives.

Carnations? I'm certain you could name them?

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
If not for Facebook you probably wouldn't have as many 'stalkers' by just populating a Wordpress. Numbers game.

You talk out of your ass as much as Antikarmatomic does. I haven't had a Facebook in years. I'm sure you could link to it and demonstrate this suposed activity related to Wordpress, 600, or anything else?

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
You can't possibly appeal to every user's flavor of content.

I am not concerned with "appealing" to anyone.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
There are forums dedicated to these subjects because you'd think that seasoned Left-handers would have other conversational interests aside beating an already dead horse.

Trivial nonsense is trivial nonsense in either hand...

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
None of which requires your agreement.

Nor do I require your own.

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#110340 - 11/17/16 01:50 PM Re: Will [Re: Persona non grata]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
First, I was generalizing. Those links also include any comment post you make linking to a blog or archive post you've made both now and in the past.

Second, by carnation I think you understand my meaning; whether it's N913, Darryl Hutchins or any previous blog project you were a part of.

Last, by talking out of my ass you mean that I speak categorically about your posting habits that are apparent?

What's wrong with Triviality again? Do elaborate.
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#110343 - 11/17/16 03:09 PM Re: Will [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Fourthly, no one talks out of their ass as much as I do – and if you think you do, I will___ buy you a plane ticket and fight you, I swear.

Fifthly, a dude as smart as him surely has figured out long ago "who needs Facebook when there’s Grindr?"
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#110344 - 11/17/16 03:14 PM Re: Will [Re: antikarmatomic]
Persona non grata Offline
member


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 469
LOL, I will never forgive you for making me look up what Grinder is... I'll never get those two guys goofy grins out of my head...
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