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#111070 - 01/06/17 01:51 AM The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
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As is well-known, the "crisis of 1975" which saw the disintegration of the original Church of Satan and its phœnix-like reconstitution as the Temple of Set was precipitated by Anton LaVey's May announcement that henceforth all initiatory degrees would simply be for sale rather than as earned magical and religious credentials.

Behind that scandal, and somewhat obscured by the scandal, was something more subtle, yet just as consequential: the Church was outgrowing its symbolic boundaries.

Back in 1966 Judæo-Christianity was still widely regarded as a metaphysical reality as well as a social convention. The same arguments against such metaphysics existed then as now, but it was the social presence which got the focus - and which was also the focus of the challenging Church of Satan. It was this social challenge that took up most of the Church's time and attention, particularly in its early years. It was only later, when it was felt that this job was done, that more attention came to be paid to the metaphysics.

Unlike the conventional religions, as as also been noted here, Satanic Black Magical workings exuded a very real, tangible presence; they were nothing at all lke the hollow pageants of J/C, or for that matter New-Age playthings like Wicca.

So we were caught between the Scylla of J/C's falsehood and the Charybdis of Satanism's reality. How can God be fake yet Satan real? We ultimately resolved this problem by "stepping into the larger universe" of the Egyptian neteru in 1975, but it was neither an anticipated nor a simple evolution.

So post-1975 the Temple of Set went off in a beyond-Satanism direction, while Anton ignored the Church and Satan completely, merely using "Satanism" as an adjective to glamorize his personal fetishes. Trailing along behind him then, as now, came a new "generation of the clueless" who were expecting the magic and mysteries of the original Church, but found only an [atheistic] ASLV fan club. Nothing has changed since.

Which raises the question of the 600C. Ostensibly it was created as a forum for serious, sophisticated Satanism [much as the more intellectual later developments of the original Church]. The problem of the nose-bump against the limitations of the symbolism also remains now as then, however.

Bluntly, no one here believes in the mythology of J/C, hence in its counter-mythology of Satan. Yet this is also clearly a consortium of those who are emotionally addicted to the imagery of Satan and the Black Arts. If you were something else, like Setians or unaddicted atheists, you'd be elsewhere, not here.

So over the recent years 600C has done as experimentally-elaborate a dance around "Satanism" as possible. After 1975 Anton didn't put any effort into this; he just casually stamped the "S"-label on whatever he fancied.

600Cers don't have that license, however; they have to constantly try to convoince themselves why they're here, and why it isn't just an empty affectation. There have been some pretty strenuous efforts, but one after another they have all faded away, like someone trying to inflate a balloon that's full of holes.

My own purpose in visiting here was both to indulge in a bit of nostalgia "for the older. simpler times", and more seriously to set some historical records straight. I've also watched with interest others' efforts to construct a valid post-Satan "Satanism".

The start of a new year seems as appropriate an occasion to take stock: You've failed. 600C has faded into little more than a gripe forum - about everything from booze to movies. This can be diverting and amusing, but Satanism it ain't.

So am I suggesting that 600C should be retired as an experiment which has exhausted itself? The short answer is yes. You're spinning your wheels here, people. You might have a wistful desire for that dark glamor of the original Church, just as I have some nostalgia for it, but it's not coming back. Nor can anyone of intelligence freshly re-create it, because it was a phenomenon of a more elementary, limited vision and perspective.

600C has the option to continue as something intentionally historical, of course. But looking at that analytically is absolutely not the same as believing in and immersing yourself in it.

So for 2017 I'd suggest that 600C be shut down, except as an archive. That's a sort of a polite bucket of cold water for its current participants to quit this sublimated self-flagellation and go be your real, authentic selves. I did my version of this by wring the CoS history book, then getting on with new adventures.

In its own way 600C has been a good, and unique school. So put its diploma on your wall and, like Caine with his freshly-branded Shaolin tiger/dragon arms, go out into the snow and be a Black Magician.
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#111071 - 01/06/17 02:31 AM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3325
 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
Unlike the conventional religions, as as also been noted here, Satanic Black Magical workings exuded a very real, tangible presence; they were nothing at all lke the hollow pageants of J/C, or for that matter New-Age playthings like Wicca.

So we were caught between the Scylla of J/C's falsehood and the Charybdis of Satanism's reality. How can God be fake yet Satan real? We ultimately resolved this problem by "stepping into the larger universe" of the Egyptian neteru in 1975, but it was neither an anticipated nor a simple evolution.

Just a little minute there ol' chap..
What makes you so sure that the rituals of Catholicism weren't as real as the rituals performed in Satanism?

You are crediting one thing whilst downplaying another without tangibility. Downplaying another whose claims are on the same level. In another topic you mentioned "something real was being called". What makes you think there aren't other rituals in other philosophies/religions where something real has been called forth? The answer there could be "because I witnessed it in presence of others while ASL did his thing". Which is the same argument any religionist might give.

As far as the symbolism and "stagnation" of Satanism goes..
You're absolutely right. The thing has lost its "punch".
The imagery and symbolism got, at average, much more accepted.

Codifying Satanism also brought it into the lime-light. It received a recognizable face and lost much of its mysterious intangibility. It was a hangmansplatform. The subsequent years after its "publication", Satan got hanged. What it is now is a public corpse which attracts mere morbid attention.

From my personal point of view, it lost its glamour. It needed an enema. Many groups have formed because many see this revival as a necessity. Hence the explanation why there are so many blogs, forums, Sects, Churches, clubs, networks present.
It also explains why this same question/topic is being raised on a yearly basis (congrats!! you're the 2017-caller).

It is in this respect that ONA (yes... here we go again) deserves a tad more recognition/respect. Its core-philosophy (hidden and deeply layered amongst the piles of e-zines, WordPress, butt hurt and other naivity) embraces the challenging of the status-quo. The rejection of conformity on all levels (from e-troll-play [a quite popular one though] to more refined activism "for the lulz".

Within all this, the 600C still plays its role. Eyes are still locked onto the board. What is said and written here still has influence elsewhere. It isn't always noticed as many of the members here focus more on one another and not so much on the ripples elsewhere.

ONA revival, The Satanic Temple, Satanic International Network, SoTHG,.. all have been (in)directly started here. Ways have parted but still it carries a potential to inspire others.
Hence in my opinion, this call for "shutdown" is unneeded. It still stands. Perhaps not with all old members present.
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#111072 - 01/06/17 03:28 AM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1398
Loc: Ca
 Quote:
Satanism it ain't.


Nail it to the Cathedral door then.

I think this thread may show that there is still *some* Satanism left here. Let's watch.

Oh Fuck it, I'm going to Reddit.

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#111073 - 01/06/17 10:17 AM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3999
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
As is well-known, the "crisis of 1975" blah blah blah yada yada same old same old


Translation : I've been trying to sell you a creative narative for years and nobody is buying it. Since what you are doing doesn't fit my narrative you should all just stop doing it.


Seriously, if you don't like it, why don't you make your second(or is it third?) long winded i-quit-and-ill-never-be-back post and stick to it this time?

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#111074 - 01/06/17 12:10 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Zeno Offline
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Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 145
Satanism is an evolving process, it is never still or the same. The problem might be with those that live on memories and past glories.

However, 600Club has seen less and less activity over time. Also, 600Club has been recycling the same old subjects, how many ways are there to discuss ONA for instance? I think the issue may be with the platform rather than with Satanism. Forums are generally a relic of five or ten years ago, people have moved onto Facebook or Twitter for their Satanic interactions these days.
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#111075 - 01/06/17 01:06 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Zeno]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
There is some good content on youtube, if you can get past video game and movie commentary. People are speaking with a lot of intellect and passion.

There are so many labels aimed at the same goal. Satanism is just one option.

There are other platforms besides facebook and twitter, like youtube and podcasts.

I'm thinking MGTOW is the new Satanism. It incorporates most if not all the goals of self actualization, non conformity, and so on, while promoting direct self defiance. However appealing it may seem to many of us men, it really is nothing new under the sun.

@Dan: Have you ever considered narrating your volumes on another platform? I know SIN read it all as one, and did a good job, but why leave it in just one place?
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#111076 - 01/06/17 02:07 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3999
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

@Dan: Have you ever considered narrating your volumes on another platform? I know SIN read it all as one, and did a good job, but why leave it in just one place?


Not really. It's there as my mental exploration and expression of my personal experience. Most people don't seem to understand much of it, and those that do are the sort that aren't afraid to dig for different perspectives.
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#111077 - 01/06/17 02:49 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Dimitri]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
What makes you so sure that the rituals of Catholicism weren't as real as the rituals performed in Satanism?

Had you asked me that in 1969 [when I joined the C/S], I would have said "because I've tried them [and most of their alternatives] and they don't work. The Satanic ones do."

Which was true, but at the time neither Anton nor I fully understood why, so it was a matter of continuing interest and detective work. What we finally realized was that Satanic workings are based on the very existential, real principle of first focus, then magnification, then connection with the source of isolate consciousness - which we then postulated as Satan, later with more precision as the Set of the TS.

By contrast, conventional religions and their rituals are what in my TS book I detail as White Magic, e.g. emotional self-deception. You're working with nonexistent, empty space, not an authentic life/power source. [See the book for the long answer.]

White Magic (WM) is a PSYOP control device to sucker others, plain and simple. It's based solely on emotional fear and weakness, which varies with circumstance. It appeals at the 5% level of algorhythmic thinking.

Lesser Black Magic (LBM) is also a device to control others, but at the 95% of subconscious thinking [cf. MindWar and again the TS book]. so it works reliably and consistently.

Greater BM works because, as above, it connects directly and intentionally to the most precisely focused source of individual presence and consciousness. GBM is not operative like LBM; it is illuminating, developmental.

That's it in a nutshell. I've not only tried out the various conventional religions; I've taught them at the university level [in Pol Sci courses in ancient, medieval, & modern theory, & Dynamics of Western Culture]. Cf. MindStar for a historical tour. On more than a few occasions I wound up teaching Christians how to be smarter, better ones, although there were many who were simply terrified to look behind the curtain, so to speak.

This is all interesting in its own way, but begs the question of this thread, which is that Satan/Satanism per se is, except among J/Cs with a need for a self-flagellation scarecrow, a concept which is obsolete because of its inherent limitations and over simplicity. To be a bona-fide Satanist, you'd have to make yourself as stupid as we were when we embarked on this adventure in the 1960s. I wouldn't like to think that anyone here wants to dumb-down, even if it's possible. Authentic initiation is a one-way gig towards knowing WTF is going on. Once you wake up, as Ouspensky would say, you can't go back to sleep. The most you can do, if the light is too bright and you can't handle it, is sublimate or drug yourself out of coherence, which is torturous in the effort and ultimately futile. In the TS, if we encounter persons who appear unable to handle initiation, we try to dissuade them up-front accordingly; they'll have a much happier future in one of the WM options, or in the locked room of materialism.
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#111078 - 01/06/17 02:54 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
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Something to throw rocks at!

This is the most pretentious crap I’ve read since the yammerings of whatshisstupidface who successfully trolled this site into getting a mod to put ONA right on its front page only to wrap it up and call it a day (yet again).

“The Devil does not exist. It is a false name invented by the Black
Brothers [of the left hand path] to imply a Unity in their ignorant muddle of dispersions.
A devil who had unity would be a God.”


^Most posters on here already grasp this on an at least tacit level. This is why the perennial attempts at unification and reconciliation as to what Satan even is are mostly chuckled and balked at. Taking such attempts seriously would constitute the truest form of failure. It's not bug it's a feature.

Personally, I think your Satan is somewhat goofy. In all fairness, I also think Satan as an archetype for non-conformity, heterodoxy, and self transcendence is also pretty goofy. Mine veers toward the fringes of misanthropy on a cosmic order, perverse cruelty, rending, suffering, severity, limitation implicit to the physical, division, and extinction over horos – things totally beyond redemption from any angle. Evil, as-in yes there is such a thing as unequivocal evil. There is no upside to it.

To the extent we disagree is the extent that the other “simply doesn’t get ‘it’” and round and round we go. Disagreement and lack of unity drives this turbine.

As for LaVey: funny thing about the Church of Satan – it doesn’t matter one single iota to me personally. Not prior to 1975 and not after. He could’ve started selling initiatory degrees or child sex slaves for all I really care. The Satanic Bible was something I stumbled across while looking for literature on___ duh___ Satan. It didn't introduce me to it. While LaVey synthesized a some good ideas and interesting essays, calling that synthesis “Satanism” was probably not the greatest of them. Seems to me that he was laudably pointing at something else that has very little to do with Satan at all – it’s a very heady “message”, one easily lost on most, and generally goes-over like a joke that you laugh at not because it’s funny, but because you get it.

Whatever the case: this is a forum. Why on earth it took you or anyone else almost 9 years (possibly longer) to realize that a forum will never be anything more than a forum is fucking hilariously baffling to me. That notion is absolutely bonkers – always has been, always will be.

It's not as if I go to Quiznos every week and every so often vocally lament how it fails as a movie theatre and should shut down.
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#111079 - 01/06/17 03:03 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
As is well-known, the "crisis of 1975" blah blah blah yada yada same old same old

Well, DD, you're a good personification of my argument. I've seen enough of you over the years here to know that you're not a stupid person, but you've burned out to the extent of posting nothing anymore except whining, bitching, and insulting blurts.

I've said that my visits here are for both historical/educational and nostalgic motives. Yours seem to be little more than masturbatory.
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#111080 - 01/06/17 03:19 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Zeno]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Zeno
Satanism is an evolving process, it is never still or the same. The problem might be with those that live on memories and past glories.

This resurrects the argument here that the term "Satan/Satanism" can or should be stretched beyond its original definition, symbolism, and meaning.

You can do this with any word, of course, but again it's like substituting a bigger glass slipper for Cindy's authentic one: You get a convenient result, but you're fooling no one byt yourself.

I absolutely grok the glamor and magnetism of "S/Sism". I soaked myself in these for years before most of you here were born, and I wouldn't trade that adventure and experience for anything. So I get it. But given today's level of sophistication among the intelligentsia, I don't think that level of ignorance and innocence can be recaptured, nor should it be. It's a little like 600C being a forum where innovative, creative, and/or artistic arguments are advanced for a flat Earth. The effort may be impressive at times, but unfortunately the damned thing is still, you know, a ball. \:\(
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#111082 - 01/06/17 03:36 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: antikarmatomic]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
This is the most pretentious crap I’ve read since ...

O.K.. so instead of just indulging yourself in a denial-rant, put up or shut up: Articulate, be, and do Satan/Satanism such that you don't simply - as ASLV post-1975 - redefine these into nothing more than your personal whims and fetishes.

At the beginning of The Fellowship of the Ring, Gandalf suggests to Bilbo that he should leave his ring to Frodo, which enrages the "enslaved" Bilbo: "You want it for yourself!" To which Gandalf responds, "I'm not trying to rob you - I'm trying to help you."

This thread is a bit like that. 600C is a ring-addiction. Would you rather emulate Bilbo or Gollum?
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#111083 - 01/06/17 03:43 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: antikarmatomic]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3325
[Quick reply]

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
Which was true, but at the time neither Anton nor I fully understood why, so it was a matter of continuing interest and detective work. What we finally realized was that Satanic workings are based on the very existential, real principle of first focus, then magnification, then connection with the source of isolate consciousness - which we then postulated as Satan, later with more precision as the Set of the TS.

I can more or less see the point and definition there.
Still a bit rough around the edges as "Satan" is then reduced to a mere "apprehension and magnification of focus and will". It could also have been called "God" or anything else for that matter.
Never the less... "Satan"/"Set" it is/can be.

Where I'm standing "LBM"/"GBM" of "white magic" all stem from "the will" and its "focus on...". The go about is what makes the differentiation.

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
This is all interesting in its own way, but begs the question of this thread, which is that Satan/Satanism per se is, except among J/Cs with a need for a self-flagellation scarecrow, a concept which is obsolete because of its inherent limitations and over simplicity. To be a bona-fide Satanist, you'd have to make yourself as stupid as we were when we embarked on this adventure in the 1960s. I wouldn't like to think that anyone here wants to dumb-down, even if it's possible

Indeed, what is it? I've got a few cards in my hand on how I see things.
One of these cards, weirdly enough, is the one you seemingly oppose. The self-flagellating scarecrow.

It is, to me, futile to define Satan(ism) based on a set of parameters and rigid imagery/symbolism. The self-flagellating scarecrow invokes the image of non-conformism with status quo AND with the self. It takes the most simple yet most polyvalent/free form one can imagine.

You know, as well as I do, that a simple 10 word sentence will hold much more power than all essays and studies combined if delivered correctly. People are much more accepting of simple things than complicated ones. So I'll give you this: why wouldn't divinity/Satanism be found in the most simple, basic statements? Satan(ism) as the "anti" of Christianity/religion is the most simple and pure form there is.

People would counter it by stating, often validly, facts on the insanity and inconsistency of Christian/religious moral, scripture and ideology. But they do so from their own culture and cultural appropriation which, in itself, isn't all that consistent seeing it is inherent to human nature to follow the status quo as codified/sanctioned by the majority.

So yeah. The "Christian" Satan isn't perhaps the most intellectual form there is. But it is vague enough to be right (with the correct twist). All in all, all definitions of Satan(ism) that I've encountered have always been based on the original "shunned" definition. Whilst rough around the edges, it keeps people in shock and guessing. The kind of "fun" I tend to adhere to
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#111084 - 01/06/17 05:02 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3999
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
As is well-known, the "crisis of 1975" blah blah blah yada yada same old same old

Well, DD, you're a good personification of my argument. I've seen enough of you over the years here to know that you're not a stupid person, but you've burned out to the extent of posting nothing anymore except whining, bitching, and insulting blurts.

I've said that my visits here are for both historical/educational and nostalgic motives. Yours seem to be little more than masturbatory.


ROFL

Seriously, are their no mirrors in Munster mansion?

You are here to preach, judge, browbeat and retcon history that nobody but you even cares about around here, and your OP is about the best example of that I can think of. In fact, your entire, lengthy posting history speaks to that.
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#111085 - 01/06/17 05:10 PM Re: The Inevitable Impasse of Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MA
so instead of just indulging yourself in a denial-rant, put up or shut up
Denial in regards to what? That this forum is a forum and that neither "Satanism" nor "the occult" can be advanced via internet forums? That's implicitly understood and does not warrant further analysis. That this comes as a surprise to you or anyone at all after any amount of time only reveals who was truly in denial from the start.

Not once has it occurred to me that my prowess as a programmer is in any way tied to my contributions on Slashdot. Why on earth would this be any different?

Besides, fighting over what Satanism is or means is the tire-spinning endeavor of you and your other Alt-C/S T.L.A. brand-pimping ilk. As I've been dead-horse-beating on since dia cero, you can keep your worthless kollective-minded isms. My concern is with the ic - a word whose wildly unpleasant dictionary-definition of more than suffices.

If the trappings of wanton mercilessness, suffering, cruelty, and malice - the lewd and lascivious - in a word: evil trappings of man's innate lysosomic tendency towards extinction makes you at all uncomfortable - perhaps it is you who are in denial... or are in need of a more appropriate mascot.
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