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#111093 - 01/07/17 04:05 AM Working Curses
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
I tend to believe that intent is the key to magic and I also believe that magic sometimes goes beyond the normal intent/action/result scenario.

Somebody messed my son's career at the end of last year so I consciously put a wish on them that their true colours become known to their employers and their peers. I just found out that this person (who had been in the industry 35years) got the sack about six weeks ago which would have been about two weeks after I laid my wish.

Yeah, it's hard not to smile about that...

I don't have proof that I had anything to do with it but I like to think I did. Lol. It is a reasonable assumption if one buys into curses - what I clearly stipulated came to fruition in a reasonable amount of time. This person is even being dodgy about what they were fired for - I think the offence goes much deeper than even I anticipated. I am proud of myself because I didn't make an uneducated judgement and assign a punishment - I simply called for exposure and left them lying in their own mess.

Anyway, when it comes to curses, (again from the perspective of a person that believes in curses) I have found that they are easy to lay when somebody you love is being fucked with. This circumstance makes it easy to focus intent. In fact, in the past, I accidentally cursed people when this was the case.

What I would like to do is to learn to focus my energy this effectively when I am not angry and full of hate for a person. I would like to be able to wield a happy curse or spell just as effectively.
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#111094 - 01/07/17 05:33 AM Re: Working Curses [Re: ShadowLover]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1352
Loc: CA
Instead of trolling for once I will give a serious answer.

Compassion.

When I was a teenager I was on probation. There was a point when I just didn't care. I was baiting my probation officer to lock me up by defying his orders, and trying to beat drug tests. My parents were scared. My mom decided to pray. She prayed to her God that nothing bad would happen to me. The next week I got a new probation officer that didn't think my ongoing pot use was a problem and thought I was a waste of the courts time. I was off probation 2 weeks later.

My Mom of course saw this as confirmation.

The reality was my old probation officer was next in line for a promotion and timing was coincidence. That's all.

This leads me to believe the magical process is:

intent + psychodrama -> randomly occurring chance + timing -> retroactive assumption of effect.
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...from all the unborn chicken voices in my head.

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#111137 - 01/09/17 01:34 AM Re: Working Curses [Re: CanisMachina42]
mountaingoat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
This leads me to believe the magical process is:

intent + psychodrama -> randomly occurring chance + timing -> retroactive assumption of effect.


Well, that's the nut we're trying to crack here, isn't it? You "believe" that there is a logical causation at work here. But belief is just the same as wishing when you throw a penny in the fountain at the mall. You can't prove it, so you "believe" it to be true.

But, what if you're both right? What if one's intentions can set into motion a perfectly logical chain of events that accomplish the task, without the intervention of giant Lovecraftian monsters or unexplainable lightning bolts?

The best Magic is the Magic that doesn't look like Magic at all.
_________________________
“The human race is unimportant. It is the self that must not be betrayed."

-John Fowles

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#111138 - 01/09/17 08:47 AM Re: Working Curses [Re: mountaingoat]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
This leads me to believe the magical process is:

intent + psychodrama -> randomly occurring chance + timing -> retroactive assumption of effect.


I agree that such is the case in most incidences, and am open to accepting that coincidence could have indeed been the case with each of my curses (the accidental ones as well as the intended couple).

I am actually a big sceptic, mostly because I want to bear witness to real supernatural phenomena. I don't have proof that my curses/magic were genuine phenomena... All I have is a pattern which allows me to ponder possibilities beyond the normal.

 Originally Posted By: mountaingoat
What if one's intentions can set into motion a perfectly logical chain of events that accomplish the task, without the intervention of giant Lovecraftian monsters or unexplainable lightning bolts?


I understand what you are saying, but that isn't the case here. There was not much logical about my method... I went full fairy! Lol!

I'm not convinced it is what happened in the case I spoke of above... It may have just been coincidence... I do however believe that energy manipulation can cause telekinetic activity which is beyond normal and would fall into what the populace currently refers to as supernatural.

Again, I have no proof... They are only personal experiences. But I am not mentally ill (much) and I am sceptical enough to look at each happening in a sequence of events separately and assess them separately. Some (which I believe were genuine) I will still put in the not confirmed basket because I can come up with a possible logical explanation. Some, I don't confirm because if I stretch that logic to its max I could perhaps excuse the happening. But there has been other physical kinetic movement and sometimes sounds which I just can't explain. That's not to say there isn't an explanation... Just that I haven't been able to come up with one.

I have spoken about one incident in another thread where all the statues (usually about 7 of them) would turn around and face the wall. I could leave the room for two minutes and they would turn. It was freaky because they were positioned and spaced so precisely (you would get a cold chill just looking at it because it just wasn't natural). You would have had to get a ruler to position them so perfectly, so even if their was another person who was around (which there wasn't in the cases I class as confirmed) they couldn't possibly have lined them up so precisely in that amount of time. I cannot logically explain how they turned the way they did.

I was dabbling in a bit or ritual work at the time so I was raising energy, and at the same time I was very emotional. Plus my son was 15yo which I've heard is poltergeist age. The energy in the house just went berserk - shit was happening everywhere. It was awesome! \:\)

I think that if you can fuck with energy and accidentally cause chaotic kinetic activity, then if you knew how to fuck with it properly you could produce a successful curse or spell.


Edited by ShadowLover (01/09/17 08:49 AM)
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#111155 - 01/09/17 07:36 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: mountaingoat]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1352
Loc: CA
 Quote:
You "believe" that there is a logical causation at work here. But belief is just the same as wishing when you throw a penny in the fountain at the mall. You can't prove it, so you "believe" it to be true.


That's a weak argument. There is a logical causation to follow.

In my example the burden of proof falls on the one who argues that my probation officers reassignment is due to the intent of my mom. The connection is specious at best.

However my belief is drawn on a verifiable chain, and unless you want to argue that my mom's intent cause the person ahead of my PO to retire thus opening up the position which lead to my turn of luck then...

Yet it still fails the Occam's razor test.

Two options:

1. Intent caused A to vacate (for whatever reason) so B could take position A and C could take position B, and only after that criteria has been met directly effected my causal experience.

2. The whatever reason was already set it motion (before intent) and the subsequent chain would have effected me either way. The rest is filled in with confirmation bias and coincidental timing.

One requires no magical thinking.

Comparing faith belief to conclusion based on evidence belife is an apologists go to to equate faith with empiricism.

Saying "intent" caused it is like saying the ghost moved the lampshade - where as the fan actually moving the lampshade is the normal way in which advancement occurs in a workplace.
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#111158 - 01/09/17 08:12 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: ShadowLover]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1352
Loc: CA
 Quote:
I am actually a big sceptic, mostly because I want to bear witness to real supernatural phenomena. I don't have proof that my curses/magic were genuine phenomena... All I have is a pattern which allows me to ponder possibilities beyond the normal.


I think this can also be explained by a predisposition of the mind to recognize patterns while ignoring that reoccurring patterns are a function of chance.

It's like a horoscope to me. Connections are still made despite all the possible and inevitable variations and turns of luck that are possible and bound to occur. Shit happens. Retroactively taking credit for the shit is a different story.

The obligatory question of "How do you know?" is the PREFERENCE of the mind to notice patterns. These patterns are like numbers on a roulette wheel. At most one can play the "trends" and think it's magic.
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...from all the unborn chicken voices in my head.

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#111177 - 01/10/17 11:30 AM Re: Working Curses [Re: CanisMachina42]
mountaingoat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
You misinterpreted my comment. I was asking "what if," not to impose meaning on your story, but to point out the uncertainty of anyone's claims of Magical success. The line between coincidence and meaningful coincidence is murky at best. And too many Left Hand Path practitioners deceive themselves by taking credit for Natural Law and random chance. The power of discernment is the true mark of a skilled practitioner.
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“The human race is unimportant. It is the self that must not be betrayed."

-John Fowles

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#111185 - 01/10/17 08:06 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: CanisMachina42]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
I actually don't believe in patterns or systems when it comes to gambling. The odds revert back to the original odds after every roll. There would have to be an outside influence to create a true pattern - like a heavier ball in the lottery machine or a lopsided dice.

Patterns are real. Sure, sometimes we can imagine them, like seeing Jesus on your toast. When I was a kid I could see a whole sailing ship on my bathroom wall where the paint had peeled off. You know, those ones from the old days with lots of little square flags... It was magnificent! But I was the only one that could see it.

But patterns are used in all sorts of practical things. Like you would be foolish to date someone who had bashed all their exes, or go camping during a pattern predicted rainy season.

Although, I agree that when looking at the supernatural, we need more compelling data to be taken seriously. I even need more compelling data in the cases of the curses I mentioned - evidence is severely lacking.

Question... Assuming one believes in magic, how would you go about proving authenticity? Does anybody ever do this? Does anybody have a formula for doing this.

Possible "magical account"... When my first son was 1yo we were sitting at the table, him on his bouncy horse because I couldn't afford a highchair and a bouncy horse. ...but his movement was likewise restricted. He kept drinking from his sippy cup and I wanted him to eat, so I moved the sippy cup out of his reach. He suddenly reached for it, missing by about a half inch, but instantly the cup started spinning on the spot about 10 or 12 rotations. My Mum was present and I said, Hey, check that out and we watched it spin. Then it stopped!

He didn't touch it. There was no reason for it to spin. Could his fingers have caused an air tunnel? Perhaps... Unlikely because they were so small, but perhaps? I haven't been able to recreate the spinning. If I used a book to fan the sippy cup which was half full, I would have to fan hard to actually move it, and if I did it would move in a straight line and not spin on the spot. Iceskaters spin fast... But don't they use some kind of arm action to go fully into the spin (I don't know). The cups handles are fixed and couldn't recreate this.

But let's say, my son's movements were so fast that I just didn't see him touch the sippy cup when in fact he did... The cup would spin in a forward trajectory like a spring pattern. It didn't, it spun on the spot for about 10 to 12 rotations, like a spinning top. To spin a spinning top you have to spin it on the centre axis which means he would have had to have grabbed it from the top and spun it.

I also pondered that a spirit could have spun the cup, but it didn't feel like a spirit and my son didn't acknowledge another presence.

I theorise that he made magic. His intent caused kinetic activity. If he got better at this, instead of just spinning the cup he could have eventually had the cup move towards him. Magic doesn't always have to be about destroying one's enemies or becoming rich and beautiful... Sometimes magic is in the insignificant things.
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#111189 - 01/10/17 09:33 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: ShadowLover]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
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Loc: CA
 Quote:
I actually don't believe in patterns or systems when it comes to gambling. The odds revert back to the original odds after every roll. 


Absolutely. Each number is no more likely than the other. But there's the law of averages complete with surges and lulls of every variety. By number, by color, by 1/3 of the board - random chance has a rather chaotic way of always balancing out.

It's a more overreaching pattern. One that "moderates" causation. Balance along a median trajectory is the only regulator/generator this universe has.

IMO more dynamic occurrences like wars, disasters, and depressions follow this "equilibrium" as well.

Roll a die 15 times and you may get 8 4's and 0 6's, but over 500 rolls it will always be within 2% of 16.5%.

IMO our personal experience seems to follow the same peaks, valleys and trajectories. Lucky for us we can influence our own trajectory.

 Quote:
He didn't touch it. There was no reason for it to spin. Could his fingers have caused an air tunnel? Perhaps


Hey, he had no reason not to think he couldnt reach that cup. I also have no reason to doubt you.

 Quote:
I theorise that he made magic. His intent caused kinetic activity. If he got better at this, instead of just spinning the cup he could have eventually had the cup move towards him. 


Telekinesis? Maybe one can create a resonance with their mind and excite the object like with harmonic levitation? Maybe it's like the matrix and there is no cup?

I am talking out my ass though...

*Skeptic edit

Perhaps he grazed the edge enough to spin it and there was enough condensation under it allowing it to keep going, providing the surface was smooth enough.
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...from all the unborn chicken voices in my head.

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#111222 - 01/11/17 10:07 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: CanisMachina42]
rustbucket Offline
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Registered: 04/06/15
Posts: 54
Loc: Not Avarua
[quote=CanisMachina42]
 Quote:


The obligatory question of "How do you know?" is the PREFERENCE of the mind to notice patterns. These patterns are like numbers on a roulette wheel. At most one can play the "trends" and think it's magic.


Nice succinct post. David Hume (old dead philosopher) argued against all strong causality claims because a scientist (or a magician) could never guarantee the "A caused B" connection. Throwing in the problem of induction: Even if you could prove "A caused B" once, you couldn't guarantee with absolute certainty that A would absolutely cause B in the future. Please See Below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ6L7QNFws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8cxXfPJU4
http://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/

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#117195 - 10/16/18 10:24 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: ShadowLover]
Devil liviD Offline
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Registered: 08/26/18
Posts: 39
Fuck. I taught I herd a word. Words are generic and if a word is power, I think the world would already be over. Only the real numbers can do shit like magic. Primes
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#119064 - 04/11/19 04:50 AM Re: Working Curses [Re: Devil liviD]
Amy_star Offline
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Registered: 04/11/19
Posts: 1
I'm not a lurker I was just trying to find the right place to comment.. since I was little I notice if I get super angry r resentful at someone they get super sick and almost die or die so I believe I may actually be accidentally cursing people.. and one time very purposefully prayed to the devil someone would die when I was little and they actually did, jesus wasnt answering my prayers and the person was beating up my mom almost to death and touching me.. I was curious if anyone has similar or has had similar experiences or has any input
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#119066 - 04/12/19 12:13 AM Re: Working Curses [Re: Amy_star]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1352
Loc: CA
Really?

I have a list of people I would like you to put to your magical whatnot to. It is just as megalomaniacal a list as Richard Nixon's.

I would like to have you test this. Start with my mother, don't really have much against her it just seems like the type of person to mock such bullshit with. The trope of a lightning bolt coming from nowhere is something worth 'baiting'.

If she dies or gets sick beyond whats expected for a 70 year old I will suggest the military use you for tactical special forces.
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...from all the unborn chicken voices in my head.

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#119082 - 04/17/19 05:04 PM Re: Working Curses [Re: ShadowLover]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 451
That could be explained as physical interaction, though physical interaction is completely objective, which clearly explains why it cannot be driven. What is thought as "good" or "evil" in the macrocosm, has not the same value in the world of quanta. What is good for me could be evil for you, and vice versa. But there's someone you cannot trick. Not me!
Parts of "bad" energy seem to mostly accumulate, while parts of the "good" energy seem to be used right away (no need to ask why). The accumulation of "bad" energy simply makes it easier for "bad" energy to be emitted. This makes it tricky for "good" energy to be emitted, when large amounts of "bad" energy has accumulated. In fact, "bad" energy is always accumulated, while "good" energy is always given out at once.
It is rather a matter of cognitive behavior, or rather a matter of survival, as I think. What puts a part of energy in the sphere of "darkness" really has to do about the society as it stands, not for what it stands, but how it still is. The sum of the "dark" energy is somehow the sum of all the compromises that are made of the sum of all the people, for the sake of a stake. Belief. A lottery which makes outcome even more uncertain. But, who would participate if the outcome was certain?
Yet there are certain spells, for example the curse. What I'm trying to explain, not to confuse a spell with the universe of physical interactions. There is no happy curse. There is no unhappy curse either. What your instinct is understanding as the meaning of the curse, limits you to an understanding volume of precision , which does not include different kind of implications that occur. What I mean is that something restrains you. Something refrains you from the complex of reality.
I could easily explain this by describing what refrains ME from reality, yet I am trying to find bonds with/to reality. The same way you try to find a "happy curse". And , yet, that would be my answer to what could be a "happy curse", bonding you with your loved ones.
It seems simple for me (again). Focusing on what you hate is about a curse. Focusing on what you love is a "happy curse".
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