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#111471 - 02/15/17 05:35 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7007
Loc: Virginia
In the U.S. there's plenty of legislation people are unhappy about, it doesn't exactly get turned around because of protests.

The abortion issue is back on the table because of Ethical concerns after 22 weeks as well as other pieces of law that seem to be catering to a constituency.

People often mistake our Republic as a true democracy, it's not. Disgruntled citizens have been using the courts to get laws turned around with a greater success. It's an abuse of the system but where there is corruption, there is opportunity.
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#111479 - 02/18/17 06:01 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1149
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
The abortion issue is back on the table because of Ethical concerns after 22 weeks as well as other pieces of law that seem to be catering to a constituency.

Ethical concerns about 22 weeks, my ass.

No one has any special concerns about abortions at a specific point. There are 3 stances on abortion. There's for, against, and not touching the issue with a ten-foot-pole.

The "against" people like to go for 22 weeks because they think they have the strongest case, there--"look, eyelashes and fingernails, how could you kill that, you monster?" It's not that they have any special ethical considerations about it; it's that they think it's an easier sell if they focus on the latter stages that most clearly resemble a baby.

Meanwhile, the "for" people are going to (rightly) point out that nobody is waiting until 22 weeks for shits and giggles--abortion becomes incredibly more expensive and dangerous the longer you wait, and abortions done that far along are overwhelmingly wanted pregnancies that went terribly wrong.

Banning at that point isn't going to stop the pro-lifer's villain of the floozy who mindlessly gets knocked up and gets an abortion because she couldn't be bothered to use a condom save herself for marriage, it's going to target aspiring mothers with serious medical complications in their pregnancies.

No matter how often this is explained, it doesn't sink in. The fact that there may be actual medical reasons for an abortion (it isn't always just a lifestyle/ family planning decision) is something the right is in hardcore denial about. Because that inconvenient fact would complicate their moral certainty.

And having a scientifically illiterate POTUS who pals around with the anti-vax crowd, climate change deniers, etc. does not bode well for the being any good sense on that front.
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#111481 - 02/19/17 12:40 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: XiaoGui17]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 885
Loc: Oregon
@Megatron

 Quote:
Always remember, Satanism demands study, not worship.


I get what you mean, and while I'm not a complete Satanist, I've always had respect to Satanism's approach to gaining a better understanding of human nature through opposition, studying unpopular ideas or thoughts to get a bigger picture.

I agree with Satanism on these grounds, but for the rituals, well, I'd rather take a ride up into nature on a summer night listening to rock and roll than stay home lighting candles and reciting corny chants.

So my take is that you think I don't know much and only warship, fact is I know some languages and have studied a lot, and continue to do so. In any case, I agree with your encouragement of continuing research. Don't let my interest in Dracula, or whatever silly avatar I put on become too much of a distraction for you. I really did come here to learn more, not just argue and tell people to fuck off (as much as I enjoy it from time to time).

I just thought it was a point worth making a little more clear so you don't think I was totally blowing you off with a completely pretentious attitude.
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#111484 - 02/20/17 11:13 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7007
Loc: Virginia
As I said, "catering to a constituency". There's only a specific type of citizen that considers the issue at all. They fall back on ethical concerns, (killing it at any stage of development).

The "for" people also don't seem to have an issue with people that wait, can't afford, or absent of a medical concern - just decide later rather than sooner so long as their tax dollars don't fund it. Later, when that low-income woman has the baby, stays on welfare her entire life; that's when they scream from the rooftops about the issue.

Mothers with serious concerns seem to be the exception in most pieces of legislation I've read. Even here in the Commonwealth of VA where there's still a lot of religiously motivated voters.

Medical concerns aside, using it as a form of birth control gets people pretty outraged (whether religious or not). Read the comments on any news article about it, there's always a percentage that say they aren't religious but find it objectionable for a woman to get abortions as a matter of habit because there was no contraception used. Why would they care? It's not their body, not their fetus... because they believe it's immoral an unethical.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Trump as a nutter either, there's a lot of out of hand reporting and legislation on these issues that need to be sorted out. Scientists often disagree about the way raw-data is used to support political agendas.
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#111530 - 02/28/17 12:24 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 885
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Later, when that low-income woman has the baby, stays on welfare her entire life; that's when they scream from the rooftops about the issue.


It makes you wonder how many are keeping the kids because of the welfare alone. One could also ask how many would not abort even if they couldn't get the perks of keeping the babies. Let's also consider, if women are going through men trying to find the right (rich) one, kids are often a big turn off to most guys.

Food for thought.
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#111536 - 02/28/17 10:45 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: Creatura Noptii]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 309
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
I feel like much of the problem is the fact that the social trends no longer reflect nature.

I have spoken before about how feminism originally set out to achieve equal rights (which they did - kudos), but somewhere along the way they took women's choice away. It is no longer a choice for a woman to have a career, but rather women are looked down upon for not making it a priority. Many females quite naturally want to breed at a young age, which is why so many teen pregnancies still occur.

I felt guilty much of my life because I was not an ambitious person. I tried to want to be an ambitious career woman but I just wasn't naturally that way inclined. I wasted a lot of energy on failed halfhearted attempts. I had two children (the first died) to two different men and married a third. Then divorced. I would never trick a man into getting me pregnant, but when the first accidental pregnancy occurred I was 19yo and was quite shocked to realise how he (also 19yo) felt about the concept of a baby - he was mortified and had a complete personality meltdown. Young girls just don't know this stuff... At that age we think in fairy-tale images.

I personally think that society needs to work with nature and accept that many young women just want to have babies, and guide them to date older men (maybe in their late twenties? How old ARE men when they start desiring to have children?)

We laugh at some of the old fashioned ways, but some of the traditional ways did better reflect and/or account for nature. Like having debutantes and arranging for daughters to meet suitable mates (as opposed to getting knocked up in the backseat of some gang-bangers car). I'm not saying arranged marriages because fuck that, although they too have their merit... But I am saying that we need to change the social perception of what is normal male and female behaviour.

...Because there is something wrong when women are needing six abortions.

...Because there is something really wrong when men are threatening to neuter themselves if Trump builds a wall and women are walking around in cunt hats and talking about their bloody sheets (Ashley Judd). That's fucking disgusting and nobody wants to hear about it. So you get a period... Who the fuck cares? Half the planet gets them - you are not unique! Men don't want to hear this shit! They don't choose their mates according to has the best menstrual stories FFS! I mean lets get back to moon lodges and and Parlours and whatever the hell men do... fishing... and keep some mystery in our lives.
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#111540 - 03/01/17 09:27 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7007
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
I personally think that society needs to work with nature and accept that many young women just want to have babies, and guide them to date


I think this is just a feeling that it hasn't. The state of things today is in fact a natural progression. I think it's more helpful to determine why you see a broken thing needing fixing.

I have a cousin that has used Abortion as birth control her entire life. Pretty sure she's exceeded 6 abortions by this stage. You talk about a woman's choice as if it isn't already hears to make. It's her body, let her do with it as she pleases, even if that results in health effects or an early death. It does more havoc to a woman's body to have the kid than it does to scrape it out in the early stages. We bounce back from stuff like that and it's not even that traumatic to the body.

It's a moral quandary. As an amoral person I find this stance pretty odd. The human condition isn't a simple thing, which is why you do see women running around screaming about their bodies and men join in not because they are men but because they are human beings. A thinking man will certainly produce the entire shit show we call life.
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#111551 - 03/01/17 08:33 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 309
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
I feel there are too many "rights" perversing the innateness of humans. Society is pulling too hard against the natural current.

I wasn't focusing on abortion as such, but rather on the section of society that want their babies. I think as a society we can do better to educate young people about what is to be expected. Now girls are mainly educated about why they need a career. And I (maybe not clearly) mentioned that I fell into the single mother trap, and frankly I was a pretty good girl. When my ex-husband and I got together we decided against having more children because at the time mine was seven and his were 13 and 15yo, but if I had gotten with a man that wanted children I would have given birth to 3 children to 3 fathers. I don't think this is wrong, just a symptom of a malfunctioning society. I made poor choices regarding partners and as a result my son grew up without a good strong role model. I think I did a pretty good job, but I think a man could have fine tuned that good job even further. There are too many broken families these days, and not much extended family to compensate. I think (hope) as a society we can do better when it comes to supporting our teens and young adults.

Would it have changed my life? Probably not... I am (moreso was) a very restless person and sort new experiences for growth because growth gave me a small sense of security. Once I outgrew my partners I moved on.

I don't have all the answers... just speculations. I think my generation (Gen X) was the first to start giving the middle finger to our elders. We were apparently a selfish generation. I have interests in cultures both present and foregone, and I think by throwing our elders away so frivolously we have lost something as a society. Other cultures honour old people more and more day to day knowledge is passed down. We don't have to listen to all of their knowledge because times do change, but some of it may have been useful. My generation is responsible for raising snowflakes. Of course, not all young people are snowflakes, but between us as a generation, we raised quite a few.

Confession... I do love watching them get pepper-sprayed. Lol! But at the same time I screw my face up in disgust at how quickly they cry. I mean, most of my generation would have been too stubborn to fucking cry in the face of the enemy. But these guys seem to see their stint as victim as their 15mins. They are melodramatic in their performance and their friends acknowledge their victim-hood. That's why I like the pepper-spray - they suddenly awake from their fake performance in a reality that hurts and then they wail and feel sorry for themselves and their performance at least becomes more authentic. These people are running on pure emotion and are dangerously easy to manipulate.

Abortion itself, is as you said, largely a moral issue. I personally am not a fan of them but I support the right for others to have them - I don't live their life or have their experiences so who am I to judge. I don't like the idea of the state having to pay for them - personal responsibility. I don't like the idea of using it as contraception, but after listening to your info, I now have to put that idea in the each to their own basket with abortions in general. However, if I was a man, if a woman had aborted multiple babies I probably wouldn't choose her to bare and rear my offspring.

I can't condone late term abortions... The idea of killing a baby (unless for medical reasons) two weeks before it hits the outside world kinda pisses me off. I mean, why should these women get to legally kill a person, but if I shoot someone I get charged. To me this is the same thing and I think if one is made legal than so should the other.
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#111554 - 03/02/17 02:36 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: ShadowLover]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3196
 Originally Posted By: ShadowLover
When my ex-husband and I got together we decided against having more children because at the time mine was seven and his were 13 and 15yo, but if I had gotten with a man that wanted children I would have given birth to 3 children to 3 fathers. I don't think this is wrong, just a symptom of a malfunctioning society. I made poor choices regarding partners and as a result my son grew up without a good strong role model.

You should have stopped at "I made poor choices".
It has nothing to do with a "malfunctioning society" but more with your attitude. You've made poor decisions, own-up to them.

As far as it concerns the "Gens.", the "hippy-movement" back in the days were also labeled as "snowflakes". Those from the 80-90ies as well. Just some entitlement and this crazy idea Gen. X/Y/Z/.. by social decree is better or worse than the previous one.

We're doing fine. Maybe slightly better than before due to technological, educational and medicinal advancements.

Shit will always happen. Media only evolved to the point things became apparent and graphic. Events get more exposure despite dwindling in frequency. That, and people have a penchant for drama about others. Hence the distorted image.
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#111556 - 03/02/17 04:13 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: Dimitri]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 309
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
Dimitri, I don't blame society for my choices - as I said up above I doubt much would have changed them anyway in my circumstance. My own pathology trumped my better judgement and that is on me. And to be truthful, I don't have any regrets. It was a wild ride, and like I said I was the restless type anyway. The only thing I think is a shame is that I felt guilty for not wanting a career - in hindsight I shouldn't have felt guilty.

As far as society is concerned, I do think we can do better. I mean at the end of the day, it will work out one way or the other... Family units will either get stronger again, or more babies will be born to single Mums. Either way, someone is going to pay for the babies. But nature will prevail - the babies will be born.
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#111557 - 03/02/17 09:30 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7007
Loc: Virginia
Society is made up of people. So what you're dealing with in a practical sense is a bunch of minds that want different things. How could everyone be pleased anyway? What progress could be made if they were?

Pretty much every innovation was sparked from dissatisfaction and a need to improve one's situation.

Example: Have you seen those water commercials endorsed by Matt Damon ( water.org )? Some minds think that by starting such an organization, promoting it with celebrity endorsement and maybe even throwing some of your own money on it this is a fix. 332 million people without clean sanitized water in Africa is conceptualized as a crisis because we've had the ability (as humans) to do this for almost 200 years. People in the Sub-Saharan region are dropping like flies because they are still a 'developing nation' without this tech.

What is the natural current in this scenario?
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#111568 - 03/02/17 06:41 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 309
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
I understand that people want different things and that not everybody will ever be happy.

But your mention of celebrity endorsement is significant, because they are what I feel have been adopted by lost humans in this present time. Most people need somebody to follow and/or to bounce ideas off. Whereas in the passed, before TV and internet became so predominant, people might aim to be like somebody in their community that was doing well, or subconsciously adopt the behaviours and patterns (for good or for bad) of their family and extended family. Perhaps the decline in the family unit was also a factor in people worshipping celebrities and modelling their lives after them. #selfies. Humans adopted celebrities as their role-models.

You see, my main concern with the decline of the family unit is that they were always our first role-models. Through them we learned how to treat and interact with in our own relationships (friends/lovers/outsiders). But there are a lot of people out there now that don't have any role-models for how men and women treat each other and deal with life problems. And I'm not sure that celebrities are the best role-models because their world (at least the one we see) is not always realistic.

Like I said, I don't know the answers and only speculate as to ways it could be improved. With the issue we have discussed here, the improvement I would hope to make would be seeing less single mothers dependent on welfare, and more children growing up with male role models.

But as you implied, this kind of change doesn't happen over night and perhaps it is a beast that will just evolve in its own time.

They say that the next generation will be conservative - naturally counteracting the current SJW trend. In which case, you guys are right in that the natural current will go where it needs to go. Damn! I vote conservative but I am not really that conservative. Now picturing a future generation with a bunch of bible toting misogynists. Lol! Then I would probably vote snowflake...

Lol! So what you guys are saying makes sense. The current will go where it will go and I can just float on a raft, enjoy the waves, get a tan and drink a cocktail. \:\)
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#111578 - 03/03/17 10:18 AM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7007
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: SL
You see, my main concern with the decline of the family unit is that they were always our first role-models.


What you're missing here is that there are just as many damaged people breeding, setting the environment for children and what is forged isn't exactly what you'd imagine. I'd be willing to bet that some users of this forum need role models like a hole in the head.

The idea of the nuclear family has been in decline since the late 50's and 60's as Divorce, lack of marriage or non-traditional tribal units have become less taboo. It's only been this decade that the U.S. has normalized the Modern Family and in order to have success with it; introduced it as a comedy/sitcom tv series. It doesn't even cover the full gambit of diverse/alternative lifestyles.


 Originally Posted By: SL
the improvement I would hope to make would be seeing less single mothers dependent on welfare, and more children growing up with male role models.


This has more to do with a lack of foresight and ambition than it does any sort of ideal environment to raise kids.
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#111597 - 03/03/17 08:07 PM Re: Dead Pool USA: Donald Trump [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 309
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
This has more to do with a lack of foresight and ambition than it does any sort of ideal environment to raise kids.


That's my point... Not enough young people are having enough vital information filtered down to give them the knowledge they need to have (correct and not fantasy) foresight. They are often doing their best and making the best decisions they know how to make. But they don't have the information they need to be successful.

I'm not talking about their parenting as individuals. Most single Mums are awesome. But there is only so much they can do alone. Family units can provide what the single mother can not.

And I'm not even talking about traditional family - but family unit. I don't care if it is a traditional marriage, or a gay marriage or a polygamous one. So long as their are healthy interactions between the members. With extended family compensating for any divorces or widowing. Family tribes...

And the other thing to remember is that it is okay to say that single parents get the job done (and they usually do), but almost every single parent I know wants a partner and wants to be a family.

Which takes me back to the original suggestion of introducing young women to age appropriate men. 18yo men aren't wanting to settle down and have babies with clucky 18yo girls. So what is wrong with steering our teenage girls to date older men if they are wanting to start families.

At the moment, I feel like young women are obeying their hormones, getting knocked up and then being ridiculed by society for doing so. Teen pregnancy is epidemic and it always will be because it is nature... Why don't young women know that young men don't want family responsibilities? This should be driven into their heads so can have the foresight they need.

Maybe sitcoms need to be showing young women living happily - a portion of them chasing careers and a portion of them dating older men and starting families. And then have another portion getting pregnant to young men, and being dumped and left a struggling single parent and being ridiculed.

...And maybe it would do young men good to have older men stealing their girlfriends - maybe it would help them grow up and see what is required of them as men who wish to be husband/fathers.

Maybe it is older men (27yo and up) who can mend this part of Western society. Hell, if they don't the Muslims will - they will take the clucky teens on as breeders.
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