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#111563 - 03/02/17 02:52 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think you're confusing the impulse to breed with laws about it.


No. I meant just what I said: groups have it in their mind to breed in competition against opposing groups. Feminism, hippies, SJWs and the like are trying to outbreed the conservatives, and vice-versa.

 Quote:
You just have to know the game you're playing, and play it better than your opponent.


True, perhaps men should buckle down and learn more on the darker side of common female nature.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Cry me a river, CN. The primary reason why men don't show up at court to demand child custody is because they are lazy asses


Oh please, you know what I'm saying here. No crying at all, just explaining the facts as they stand. Just stop, this issue of the dead beat dad is a poor backup. Men have to take pay under the table after divorce because their regular pay is ripped from their wallets and can't afford a regular life, as stated above. I think women are fucking lazy.

 Quote:
I remember how it was with my own daddy.


Cry me a river...

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Now he's over 60 (God bless his soul) and still lives the life of Casanova.


Fuck god, and good for that guy.

 Quote:
If I were to speak from experience, I could say that all men are good for nothing. You would then probably protest and say I'm overgeneralising. And rightly so.


Indeed, seeing as how over ninety-five percent of all inventions are by men. Women on the other hand... I believe in LaVey's idea of 'the forbidden market' of artificial companions. What will happen of biological women when men craft and purchase artificial wombs and sex robots in the future?

 Quote:
When the relationship breaks, whether it's a formal marriage or just partnership, usually both parties are to blame.

Unless you consider no fault divorce, wherein a woman can just decide 'he's a lazy ass,' even though the man clearly isn't, and will be entitled to half his assets in the process. Again, look at the welfare state and who sucks up the most of it, who initiates the divorces, and how these so called 'dead beats' are charged so much money and judged as being the primary recipients of child care payments, and how many are locked up because they can't keep up with the outrageous costs.

 Quote:
Some men and also women are not a material for a husband, wife or a father, mother.


Indeed, I actually agree with you here. I think one disposable generation after the next has created a mass land fill of utter stupidity, however, I think it may have to do with how many males are raised without father figures to help them build backbone, and how many women are raised with a spoiled princess bitch entitlement mentality that they should get respect and admiration for being a crazy stupid woman. These problems happen for reasons, mainly due to upbringing, social environments, and life experience (or lack thereof).

 Quote:
I don't know about you. You sound bitter. Either you haven't met a suitable woman for yourself yet, or you got your ass kicked by life too many times or, perhaps, you aren't such a poor innocent guy you seem to portray yourself to be.


All true. Never had my ass kicked by life, but its bitten me in the ass quite a few times. I'm still here. Innocent? When have I ever professed innocence or guilt? I've learned to avoid women due to experience. I gave women a lot, I wasn't ever a mangina or a white knite and I gave them my time, affection, and resource, and all I got was a knife in the back. At some point a man has to look at himself and avoid the things that are turning his life into a cluster fuck of bullshit. Its the only logical thing to do.

I think MGTOW is entirely logical in this day and age for any rational man. It is unfortunate that men have been turned into weaklings, grovelling at the feet of angry fat bitches with no remorse. I don't have sympathy for their plight. Masculinity itself is what makes or breaks the real change that goes on in society. I think it is men's fault that women have become so untrustworthy. Their fault for sucking up to women's bullshit. As it stands now, most women are spoiled rotten, the courts are nuts, and for all better and worse cases, men are to blame.
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#111569 - 03/02/17 06:41 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
The story about my dad is only an example, one of the many. The decision to have a child was mutual. There was a time when both my mother and father loved each other and they both wanted to have a family. When my cousin fucked his girlfriend, he knew very well she didn't use anti conception. She didn't lie to him. He didn't use anti conception either. They didn't think about it. They simply wanted to have nice time. The baby that arrived by accident was their mutual responsibility.

You wrote that men have no say about woman's pregnancy but it's not always the case. You have every right not to deal with women and children if you want to but there are males who think more with their dicks than brains and then they cry about the consequences.

As far as the law goes, I know plenty of cases of women losing their parental rights. I think you are a little bit biased.
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#111576 - 03/03/17 10:06 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
No. I meant just what I said: groups have it in their mind to breed in competition against opposing groups. Feminism, hippies, SJWs and the like are trying to outbreed the conservatives, and vice-versa.


I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of conscious willful action. The Proletariat has a tendency to breed out of impulse and more often than not with blatant disregard of ability. This accounts for why so many live beyond their means, have additional children to complexion the situation and end up on social programs just to survive.

A certain sort with that mind set have access to just as many scapegoats for their own lack of planning. This is why the Rich are evil, Corporations are the new empires and why they demand that they pay alms to the poor.
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#111588 - 03/03/17 11:37 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
The story about my dad is only an example, one of the many.


Yes, and my example of women leaving men for no other reason than auto-entitlement to AT LEAST half of a man's assets is how women are getting by these days, according to the stats, a much more frequent example than yours.

 Quote:
there are males who think more with their dicks than brains and then they cry about the consequences.


Aaahhh fuck whatever. I hear the same stupid argument from women all the fucking time. 'I outgrew him, he was too lazy, he had a drinking problem...'

Yet they never say anything in regards to their own behaviour while pouring mass globs of booze and cigarettes down their own gullet. Always the man's fault.

And here you so called satanist women who one might think would offer an alternate narrative...

Yet it seems to be the same here.

Men are lazy you say...

Look fucking at everything around you. Invented by men.

Men work more than women on average, and earn more because of it.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I think you are a little bit biased.


Sure. I'm as biased as they come because the facts are the facts. Fucking good for me.

I think the judges and the women are biased. Regardless of your assumption about my attitude, the facts remain.


I don't know quite about you satanist women, I've even seen a video of SIN here talking about how she sees men's strength as a resource to consume.

Doesn't stand out from any other female behaviour.

Yet I must say, if men allow themselves to be used, their plight not mine.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of conscious willful action


I've heard people talk about it, from both sides.
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#111594 - 03/03/17 01:45 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Well there indeed exist better examples of "Satanic Women"..

Anyway, your average woman is like your average man.
Give it an easy opportunity and it will ask for more.
Plain old greed.

Hamstering takes place with both genders. Women are generally more vocal about it whereas men generally swallow their pride and start a bit of boozing.

Women are cunts and guys are dicks.
Luckily one fits into another.

There's a truth between all sexist remarks. Inconvenient and subtle yet present.. albeit for other reasons than popularly described.
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#111596 - 03/03/17 07:18 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of conscious willful action. The Proletariat has a tendency to breed out of impulse and more often than not with blatant disregard of ability. This accounts for why so many live beyond their means, have additional children to complexion the situation and end up on social programs just to survive.


It's often supported by the state. All those popular narratives about the society getting older and the pension system about to crash if the number of children systematically decreases, about all children being ours and deserving the care of the whole society and not only their parents, the cult of children and treating mothers as special snowflakes, not to mention financial grants and privileges just for having kids - all of this breeds the sense of entitlement. All too often people are brainwashed into believing their life is not their responsibility but the responsibility of the government.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Aaahhh fuck whatever. I hear the same stupid argument from women all the fucking time. 'I outgrew him, he was too lazy, he had a drinking problem...'

Yet they never say anything in regards to their own behaviour while pouring mass globs of booze and cigarettes down their own gullet. Always the man's fault.


Now now where did I say it was all the man's fault? I said when the partnership splits, usually both parties are to blame. You are disappointed with a few women you met in your life and you now overgeneralize and say all women are cunts. A frustrated woman after a couple of failed relationships could also say that all men are dicks. It's the same type of an argument.

 Quote:
Men are lazy you say...

Look fucking at everything around you. Invented by men.

Men work more than women on average, and earn more because of it.


Now you sound like a typical disgruntled male chauvinist. Poor you.

But seriously, what does that have to do with the topic? We are talking about relationships. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to be with a woman if you don't want to. Some people make poor choices, mate with the wrong people, let themselves be used and then, instead of owning up to their own naivety, they continue to complain and blame the whole world for their disillusionment.
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#111603 - 03/04/17 12:57 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
I bet you've done little to no digging at all. MGTOW is based on stats, reality. Feminism is based entirely on bullshit. Prove me fucking wrong, I dare you.

Both terms are used by a large variety of people to mean a number of different things. Both groups consist primarily of misguided douches who need a cause to feel schpecial, secondarily of bitter losers who hate the opposite sex because they're not getting any action, and occasionally have a damn decent person who makes a decent point. Like about any other cause, really.

It ain't about "middle ground" so much as side- eyeing the notion of activism itself, which is a flaw common to both.

 Quote:
Let's take a few Feminist claims and do a little satanic trick on 'em:


Women are oppressed by men//Men are oppressed by women
I'd argue any claim that (group) is oppressing (group) is a load of bull. There's no evil genius trying to keep you down. You fail because you suck.

If you live in Sub-Saharan Africa and the village makes up its mind that you're a witch, you just might actually be "oppressed." If you were born with certain disadvantages due to class/ wealth/ culture/ geography/ etc., that's 99% of the time shit luck, not The Patriarchy or some other big bad actively trying to fuck you over.

People seem to mistake apathy for oppression. I'm not oppressing the hobo when I ignore his pleas for change. I'm not helping, that doesn't mean I'm actively hurting him.

Same goes for "underprivileged".

Women are used by men//Men are used by women.

Both are true. Women are also used by women, and men by men. People using people is the human condition.

Same goes for objectification, dependence, etc.

Dead beat dads are the reason women leave men

Typically the person doing the leaving is the one who could do better (hence the leaving). The dumper is usually more of a catch than the dumpee, regardless of gender.

White men get money just for being men:

Yeah, that SJW myth is dumb.

Women have great privilege because they practically get amnesty from any wrong doing in a marriage, and can wipe their ass with common divorce law because the judges will lay almost every, if not all financial responsibility on the men.

As I've explained, nonsense.

Women have a real privilege/ advantage in criminal courts, where they routinely get lenient sentences. Family courts, as I've explained, not really.

 Quote:
I don't know if judges get paid off, or what the case is, but I've spoken with people who have seen good hard working men loose their children to CRACK WHORES without explanation.


I'd love to see those court files, because just about every time I hear a sob story like this it's because some idiot tried to represent himself and didn't have the foggiest clue da fuck he was doing.

Lemme guess, he never actually petitioned for custody. He sorta mentioned it offhand to the judge, and the judge flatly ignored him because the judge was legally barred from considering requests not properly plead for.

Heck, I'll bet my left arm crack whore had a lawyer and dad didn't. That, or dad hired Mr. Bean to be his lawyer.

I'll tell you something-- I've seen several custody disputes with the inverse, where dad had a lawyer and mom did not. And in every single last one of those cases, dad got custody. Funny how that happens.

Oh, and by the by, I'm extremely skeptical of of the "good hard -working man" who somehow thought it was a good idea to marry and have kids with a crack whore. Usually if one parent is a jackass, the other is, too. If he's such a great guy, why'd he knock up a crack whore?

 Quote:
With things like no fault divorce, women can just up and leave men and fuck up their life.


What's the alternative to no-fault divorce? Forcing people to stay together? You really think making someone stay with someone they hate would be an improvement?

A great deal of these men who have to pay alimony and child support are good working men, not dead beats. Their income is simply not enough *after payments are extracted to keep up a decent living.

Alimony is baloney, and abolishing it is one of the best points MHRAs have, IMO. I'm glad it's not a thing at all in Texas.

Alimony is a relic of English common law, which treated marriage like adoption of a child. (Worth noting that dowries, a large lump sum provided to the groom by the bride's family, were for that reason, and cushioned the cost of possible alimony.)

Texas, like most border states, follows Spanish civil law instead of English common law. Marriage is treated like a business partnership instead of a dependent adoption. Assets are divided like they are when a business partnership dissolves-- no continuing duty of support to a former spouse is owed. (Courts only occasionally award "spousal support" in extreme cases, like when one spouse is wheelchair bound from being thrown down a flight of stairs by the ex.)

Child support, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. You make another person that has no choice but to depend on you? You provide for that person. If you can't afford to, wrap it up.

I can see advocating for child support reform--e.g. money must be spent on the kid, parent must have actual custody to receive it. But abolishing it? Flat nonsense.

Let's face it, women get paid just for being women.

This is actually true. It's half due to indulgence of feminist entitlement, and half due to sexual supply and demand.

Go to a strip bar. You'll see fat disgusting strippers now, what with fat acceptance becoming the norm.

I'm betting specific fetishes and/or beer goggles have more to do with that than fat acceptance.

In any case, I'm not going to list any sources just yet. I'm actually going to let you try to prove me wrong.

This is known as burden- shifting.

 Quote:
Who gets awarded custody most often

Men, actually. When men actually petition for custody, they are more likely to win. Most custody arrangements are agreements or defaults, not "awards".

This goes back to that whole understanding how the legal system works thing.

The custody gap exists for the same reason the wage gap does: when you don't even try, failure is guaranteed.

As for welfare and child support, see above.

So many feminists bitch about how few rapes results in convictions, conveniently failing to mention the number one reason is failure to press charges on the part of the victim. Whining about how few men get custody is no different. In over 90% of cases, the father simply lets the mother have custody-- no dispute.

Who are the majority voters between the sexes

How can you bitch about oppression when something is entirely a function is personal choice? Are there angry feminists engaging in intimidation at the polls or something? Serious weak sauce.
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#111609 - 03/04/17 11:02 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
usually both parties are to blame.


The stats speak otherwise. Women are the ones leaving men, even though men do the most work.

I will however agree that in cases of domestic violence, it is usually reciprocal.

 Quote:
You are disappointed with a few women you met in your life and you now overgeneralize and say all women are cunts.


Yep. Which is why I avoid them altogether for the most part. I also have standards and I have yet to encounter a woman who meets them. That's on me, I know, but personally I'm not looking to be in a relationship, I don't need a woman right now, and perhaps I never will. Living alone isn't so bad when you can internally validate.

As for bitterness... mine comes from many things, and I don't mind having some of it in me. Its merely a product of living life, and when you can see it for what it is, you can live past it if you so choose. That's why I'm living alone. I enjoy solitude, silence, and no strings attached. I can get up and go anywhere anytime I want, no one to bother me if I do. Yet, so many would attack my choice in lifestyle, as if it has anything at all to do with their own. Jealousy reigns.

I will say this. I've come to know about a handful of real women in my life. Not bitches, but real adult women. They are rare indeed, much as a true man is also a rare item these days. I'll agree to that much.

 Quote:
Some people make poor choices, mate with the wrong people, let themselves be used and then, instead of owning up to their own naivety, they continue to complain and blame the whole world for their disillusionment.


True. True indeed. Which is why I won't have anything more to do with women at this point. I really am much happier not persuing their validation. Life is much better. I'll be fucked if any other men will listen. I will say, sometimes I do enjoy telling people off. Feeding the beast, if you will.

And no, that was not being 'disgruntled,' that was calling you bitches out on calling us men lazy.

For the lolz.

 Originally Posted By: XG
I'd argue any claim that (group) is oppressing (group) is a load of bull. There's no evil genius trying to keep you down. You fail because you suck.


You would argue that wouldn't you. It is not a load of bull, and you haven’t addressed the facts I've pointed out about men making more money, and paying for women's bullshit. The last sentence of your above quote might be better narrated out loud by yourself in front of a mirror.

 Quote:
or some other big bad actively trying to fuck you over...

People seem to mistake apathy for oppression. I'm not oppressing the hobo when I ignore his pleas for change. I'm not helping, that doesn't mean I'm actively hurting him.


The patriarchy is not real. Courts, corporations and women who try to fuck people over, are real. So is the fact that men are paying for it. I will say this, a society that allows this to happen is quite ridiculous indeed. It will only end when the majority of men finally get their shit together and stop marrying women.

I can tell you're already trying very hard to steer clear of the facts. Despite your example of the Bum, women and courts are in fact oppressing men when they force men to pay huge loads of money to women who aren't worth shit as wives, parents, or self sufficient adults. The courts are forcing these payments on men probably due to the fact that *continued corruption of all sides gains a fat paycheck, but it is mostly at the expense of men, fully aware of the danger or not.

 Quote:
People using people is the human condition.

When men idolize and worship and kneel down in adoration to women over so many generations, it breeds this entitlement mentality. I agree. When you treat someone like they are a god, they will treat you like shit. This is why men have got to stop bowing down to smelly cunts.

 Quote:
Typically the person doing the leaving is the one who could do better (hence the leaving). The dumper is usually more of a catch than the dumpee, regardless of gender.


I think it has everything to do with gender. It comes down to men's innate sex drives played against them by way of social conditioning which produces a developed psychological desperation for female validation. Women are often not a better catch, simply because they only have so much time before they become undesirable for sex. Men often prefer younger women. Men are stronger and smarter than women on average. Women leave men not because they are such a strong independent adult, let alone a catch, but because they think they can marry up to a higher (richer) class.

And if this were the case, why the welfare?

 Quote:
thought it was a good idea to marry and have kids with a crack whore


She may not have always been one, and probably wasn't all he thought she was from the beginning, as is usually the case. Anyway, doesn't negate the fact about who is a better provider in this particular instance.

 Quote:
What's the alternative to no-fault divorce? Forcing people to stay together? You really think making someone stay with someone they hate would be an improvement?


I'd like the judgement to be based on undeniable evidence wherein the so called 'hatred' for their partner is absolutely proven, or allow no fault divorce and see if women still leave when they realize they are not entitled to anything of the man's belonging. Sure. It would be a great improvement for men not to have to be the majority tax payers for women's stinking laziness.

Fucking yes. Keep the bitches in the kitchen where they belong if that's how they are going to behave.

 Quote:
This is known as burden- shifting.


Not at all. Not even an OUNCE. You either want to do reserach or you do not. I'm not forcing the burden on you, so much as giving you an opportunity. You choose how to view it, nothing to do with me.

 Quote:
The custody gap exists for the same reason the wage gap does


Feminism.

 Quote:
Are there angry feminists engaging in intimidation at the polls or something?

Women are the majority voters, far as I know, and are thus catered to. Personally I don't vote, but I don't often interact with women either, nor will I ever marry. In fact, I think if men just didn't marry women altogether, they'd be happier.

Overall, I meet more single happy men and more unhappy married men.

In my experience, the former has so much more reason to be as they are.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (03/04/17 12:01 PM)
Edit Reason: **
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#111610 - 03/04/17 12:37 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: XG
I'd argue any claim that (group) is oppressing (group) is a load of bull. There's no evil genius trying to keep you down. You fail because you suck.


You haven’t addressed the facts I've pointed out about men making more money, and paying for women's bullshit.


I did, though. As I said above, it's half feminist entitlement being catered to, and half sexual supply and demand. I'm not arguing it doesn't happen; it certainly does. And I'm not arguing it's a good thing; it certainly isn't.

I just wouldn't go so far as to call falling for a con "oppression." People doing that word around a lot. Nobody forces men to buy crap for gold diggers. Being duped into making a bad choice isn't the same as having no choice. It's not the same as being sent to a gulag or burned as a heretic. It's bad, no doubt. But oppression is just too strong of a word.

Is it a problem? Absolutely. Is it oppression? No. I'm just saying oppression is too strong a term for what you're describing.

As for feminist entitlements, Title IX and VAWA and their ilk need major overhauls. I don't think women should get extra funding for being women.

You see me as an enemy. Why, I'm not sure. Because I disagree on some points, or because I'm a woman, or because I told you I practice family law.

Really, I'm not. I absolutely 100% support you going MGTOW. Really, no sarcasm. You're incredibly ahead of the curve to know what you want out of life and to avoid many of the pitfalls and traps that come with dating.

And hey, I also hella respect you for coming into the lion's den instead of holing up in an echo chamber.

 Quote:
The last sentence of your above quote might be better narrated out loud by yourself in front of a mirror.


Such hostility.

I was using the second-person "you" in the generic, impersonal, colloquial sense, i.e. "If someone fails, it's because they suck." I didn't mean it against you personally, if that's the way you took it.

I don't think it's productive to resort to personal attacks. We're here to talk about issues, right? Let's stick to that.

And I really don't think you have any basis for asserting that I'm a failure anyway.

 Quote:
I can tell you're already trying very hard to steer clear of the facts.


So far, you've just described general trends as you perceive them. There's no sources for the facts you allude to. Kinda hard for me to address your sources if you won't tell me what they are.

I'll dig into the remainder later, but that's enough for now. I'm veering dangerously into wall of text territory.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (03/04/17 12:38 PM)
Edit Reason: Quote blocks
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#111614 - 03/04/17 06:37 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Quote:
Courts, corporations and women who try to fuck people over, are real. So is the fact that men are paying for it. I will say this, a society that allows this to happen is quite ridiculous indeed.

So, your proposition is that current family law and the burdens it imposes on men are a problem. Okay. Let's drill down specifically into what the root of the problem is.

Here are the possibilities, as I see them:
(1) The problem is marriage. (You seem to have proposed this. I'll qualify my answer.)
(2) The problem is divorce. (You seem also to have proposed this. In short, I disagree.)
(3) The problem is alimony. (As noted, I agree with this.)
(4) The problem is custody determinations. (I've addressed this, and will further.)
(5) The problem is child support. (As noted, I disagree with this.)

Does that about cover the possibilities? Or have I missed something?

#1: Marriage

 Quote:
It will only end when the majority of men finally get their shit together and stop marrying women.

Too often people end up in shitty marriages because they rush to commit when in the honeymoon/ infatuation phase, and don't really take seriously things like planning/ budgeting.

For instance:
 Quote:
 Quote:
thought it was a good idea to marry and have kids with a crack whore

She may not have always been one, and probably wasn't all he thought she was from the beginning, as is usually the case.

Yeah, rose-colored glasses in romance are a thing. Which is precisely why I think people should be responsible for taking their time and making sure the person they're marrying is worthwhile. I simply don't have much sympathy for a guy made a dumb decision.

I feel hella sorry for the children in that situation. They're the real victims there. They had no choice about their mom being a crack whore, or their dad being a dumbass.

Adults have the ability to look out for their own interests. If they fail to fight for themselves, that is on them. Children don't have any option, and I'm way more sympathetic to them than the stupid adults whose stupid decisions left the children as collateral damage.

If more people either committed to being single (e.g. MGTOW) or were at least comfortable enough being single that they could hold out for a worthy and compatible partner (and be content if no such person came along), a lot of the problem would be solved.

How do we go about accomplishing this goal? I don't know. I'm not sure your battle-of-the-sexes, gender-war hostility is a good solution. I wish cooler heads would prevail, and I think bitterness and rage cloud judgment as much as infatuation and desperation do.

I've seen some MGTOW who were exactly what we need: cool, rational, realistic, and responsible. And I wish them every success. Which is precisely why I find it disappointing to see MGTOW who complain and bitch about women instead of doing something constructive. They give the whole movement a bad name and set it back.

Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining.

#2: Divorce

 Quote:
 Quote:
What's the alternative to no-fault divorce? Forcing people to stay together? You really think making someone stay with someone they hate would be an improvement?

I'd like the judgement to be based on undeniable evidence wherein the so called 'hatred' for their partner is absolutely proven...

In a no-fault divorce, the court does have to enter a finding of irreconcilable differences, by a preponderance of the evidence. Are you saying the finding should be different, or are you saying the standard of evidence should be tougher? What standard would you propose?

Also, I'm curious where you stand on divorces that are merely formalizing separation in fact. Yes, women file for divorce in a majority of cases, but often it's the husband that left the home, and the wife is just making it legally official. Would you grant a divorce under those circumstances, if you were the judge?

Are you aware of how parties went about obtaining divorces prior to no-fault divorce? Google it. Hint: include the word "collusion."

#3: Alimony

 Quote:
...or allow no fault divorce and see if women still leave when they realize they are not entitled to anything of the man's belonging.

You know my stance. No adult should owe a continuing duty of support to another adult.

#4: Custody

 Quote:
Anyway, doesn't negate the fact about who is a better provider in this particular instance.

I don't know whether he was or not, since I know nothing about him. But even assuming for the sake of argument he was a better provider, it's almost an absolute certainty (1) he never petitioned for custody, and (2) he would have gotten custody if he had.

He can't cry if he didn't try.

I've worked with seven judges, and they've all been eminently reasonable. If a father is the better parent, and is better situated to care for the children, and he petitions for custody, he gets custody. Period.

I think it would be in children's overall best interests if fathers got custody more often. But the fact that they don't is on them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, the defeatist assumption that they won't get custody makes them not even try, which guarantees they won't.

If you think men should get custody more often (as I do), but you think the system is responsible instead of men (as I don't), I'm curious:
(1) What element, exactly, of the system do you think is responsible for men not getting custody? and...
(2) What change would you propose to fix it?

And finally...

#5: Child Support

So you've not really stated your stance on this. Let me ask this way: if, for instance, your friend with the crack whore ex had gotten custody, did you think crack whore ex should have to pay him child support? If not, why not?

 Quote:
I can tell you're already trying very hard to steer clear of the facts.

On the contrary, I'm discussing the facts. I've worked on hundreds of SAPCRs and I have more insight than someone's slanted sob story on a blog or statistics that only tell part of the picture.

I haven't heard much of a response from you to the facts I raised.

 Quote:
And if this [the dumper usually can do better than the dumpee] were the case, why the welfare?

People on public assistance make up about 90% of my dockets, so let's be clear that I know what of I speak.

Welfare recipients usually aren't "dumpers." Usually, either their baby daddy skipped town (left them, not the other way around) when they got knocked up, or their baby daddy went to prison for something like burglary. In the few rare cases where the welfare recipient did leave the baby daddy, 80% of the time there was serious domestic violence or drug abuse that practically forced her to flee.

If anything, the welfare recipients, perhaps due to financial constraints, are too reluctant to leave when they should, too quick to forgive and give another chance to batterers, tweakers, and thugs (oh my!). (And then they go have another kid with the guy. Christ on a cracker.)

If you can drum up pity for Mr. Knocked Up A Crack Whore, perhaps you've got a violin for Ms. Third Kid's The Charm That Will Get GangBang McGee To Straighten Out His Life?

I'm consistent in my contempt for both.

 Quote:
 Quote:
This is known as burden- shifting.

Not at all. Not even an OUNCE. You either want to do reserach or you do not. I'm not forcing the burden on you, so much as giving you an opportunity. You choose how to view it, nothing to do with me.

I'm familiar with the stats you cite. I also know why they're flawed. I've seen the confounding variables that skew the results. I've worked hundreds of SAPCRs.

I daresay I have more background knowledge than you, and I echo your invitation. You haven't addressed many facts I raised, primarily the fact that men don't petition for custody in the majority of cases, and win custody in a majority of the cases in which they do. You're ignoring it because it doesn't mesh with your narrative of oppression.

 Quote:
 Quote:
The custody gap exists for the same reason the wage gap does

Feminism.

How is feminism responsible for men failing to petition for custody?
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#111628 - 03/06/17 09:56 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
Regardless of narrative, people have felt entitled because it's easier, always has been. As if these complainers even had a pension to fall back on? Here in the U.S. many people don't even pay Social Security because they've spent the majority of their adult lives either not working or getting paid under the table. Then, they act shocked and bamboozled when there's not a little nest egg there to live on when they are too old to work.

It's too easy to blame brain-washing propaganda because if they understood it from the get-go, they would have worked instead of relying on tax payers to fund their lives.

I understand what you mean in terms of a society though, it's just as much an influencing agent as any other to the youth. Thing is, even the nativity of youth is outgrown (and quickly) once people mature into adults and get out there in the world to see what their made of.

Granted, many people never do. They stay at home with their parents, find some elderly relative to live off of or just go stand in the welfare line.

There are some government systems that provide opportunity. Take for instance, unemployment benefits. Many people survive by working that system. Working only long enough to get terminated then play the 'job seeker game'. There's no real checks and balances there. People can literally just fake job searches, receive money, (even if it's barely enough to live on) and just rinse and repeat.

I'll never understand the mentality, as if barely scraping by = quality of life. Self-defeatist behavior, in my opinion.
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#111705 - 03/10/17 12:03 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
You see me as an enemy. Why, I'm not sure. Because I disagree on some points, or because I'm a woman, or because I told you I practice family law.


Yes, those could be reasons to see you as an enemy. I guess I'd have to ask of your primary focus concerning family law.

No one on this little forum is my enemy. I have no friends, no lovers. I have been accused of being hot headed, hostile, mean, sure. Perhaps I was born with a little more fire in my blood. I enjoy argument. Mean as I am, I've never ruined anyone's life.

 Quote:
Really, I'm not. I absolutely 100% support you going MGTOW.


Not sure how a woman can 'support' a man going on his own path, but hey, if you agree you agree.

 Quote:
Too often people end up in shitty marriages because they rush to commit when in the honeymoon/ infatuation phase, and don't really take seriously things like planning/ budgeting.


If I understand correctly, the honeymoon phase comes after marriage. In my observation it has to do with women having high expectations and a fantasy of a dream life, a wedding, and all other nonsense as soon as possible, and men going along because they are perhaps too young and horny to care.

 Quote:
Adults have the ability to look out for their own interests.


I must admit things are getting harder, the job market isn't as good as reported, yet it seems more and more this 'adult ability' is less common with each oncoming generation. Between corporate greed and mass stupidity festering on both ends, I think people decide on paring up, as if throwing another piece into the mountain of shit is going to make it better.

 Quote:
If more people either committed to being single (e.g. MGTOW) or were at least comfortable enough being single that they could hold out for a worthy and compatible partner (and be content if no such person came along), a lot of the problem would be solved.


I agree.

 Quote:
How do we go about accomplishing this goal? I don't know. I'm not sure your battle-of-the-sexes, gender-war hostility is a good solution. I wish cooler heads would prevail, and I think bitterness and rage cloud judgment as much as infatuation and desperation do.


Indeed, strong emotions that people don't have much experience conducting are going to fail in logic and overall application. Logic and focus are the key. Society is raised on fake lineage, as compared to true lineage. Magical thinking vs. refined skill.

 Quote:
I've seen some MGTOW who were exactly what we need: cool, rational, realistic, and responsible. And I wish them every success. Which is precisely why I find it disappointing to see MGTOW who complain and bitch about women instead of doing something constructive. They give the whole movement a bad name and set it back.

Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining.


This is where we are divided. You seem to be going in circles. You forget why men give up on women (hint: the solution you are looking for is in that last five words of that sentence).

You think men like this? Well I can say eventually they do. Its not easy to live without female contact, but it can be overcome to a man's benifit. Men have the technological mind you see. We have the mind for craft, skill, refinement, meeting our needs directly, unlike women wherein most is obtained through proxy.

Men complain about women because women have betrayed their dedication more than once. It comes with experience. Let their spiteful tongue be a word of wisdom, if not for warning.

 Quote:
are you saying the standard of evidence should be tougher? What standard would you propose?

Also, I'm curious where you stand on divorces that are merely formalizing separation in fact. Yes, women file for divorce in a majority of cases, but often it's the husband that left the home, and the wife is just making it legally official. Would you grant a divorce under those circumstances, if you were the judge?


Depends. Is he leaving because the woman is a super bitch? If she is he needs to get proof. If people are married with no kids, let them separate. Set tougher standards for the couple to remain as such unless proof of dangerous abuse is present.

 Quote:
No adult should owe a continuing duty of support to another adult.


It is a matter of circumstance, man or woman. Divorce alone, not a good excuse. We agree to some level here.

 Quote:
I think it would be in children's overall best interests if fathers got custody more often. But the fact that they don't is on them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, the defeatist assumption that they won't get custody makes them not even try, which guarantees they won't.

If you think men should get custody more often (as I do), but you think the system is responsible instead of men (as I don't), I'm curious:
(1) What element, exactly, of the system do you think is responsible for men not getting custody? and...
(2) What change would you propose to fix it?


I've made it clear that men do need to get their shit together. If in fact you are correct, then so be it. I'll stand better informed on the matter. It is out of pure curiosity as I have no plans on ever marrying, as stated above, it isn't really my circus.

 Quote:
If you can drum up pity for Mr. Knocked Up A Crack Whore, perhaps you've got a violin for Ms. Third Kid's The Charm That Will Get GangBang McGee To Straighten Out His Life?

I'm consistent in my contempt for both.


Well stated and likewise.

Overall, it doesn't concern me all that much. The bottom line is for men to unplug from relationships with women, at least until they understand reality.
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#113194 - 06/13/17 04:05 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Sargeist]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 56
Varg is a stoic...this is where I sadly have to depart from his teachings since (not being as strong as him) I chose another path, a path of feasible happiness in this hostile world - and subsequently racial death by not breeding future warriors enough.

However as a native European I do resonate with him politically and endorse his endeavour to survive the Western Civilization (the society of weak and effeminate) by living simple life in poverty so that our tribalism may one day prevail, and so that native pagan Europeans can have their vengeance at last.

Self-destructive policies of progressive left, muslim immigration, breakdown of Capitalism and corrosion of Christianity may serve as catalysts in this process. Once the Civilization collapses and carnality prevails over the society of human rights those who have wronged us will curse the day they were born.

WOTAN MIT UNS!

https://youtu.be/vIeLW8OPomg
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#113224 - 06/15/17 01:41 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
CCB Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 14
Loc: United States
 Quote:
The Proletariat breeds like rabbits and it's far from the best of the best. It's not the inferior refusing to breed, it's the opposite.


Indications of overall goodness are not always good, just as indications of overall badness aren't always bad. Act and think as you want. But your disposition to sterility doesn't have to be judged as itself great on the grounds that it is possibly indicative of some greatness.

The question wasn't "do less competent beings often reproduce", but "is reproduction more of a challenging goal than non-reproduction". The answer depends on who you are, I.e what your characteristics and desires are. Not that it matters. It's neither agreeable in my opinion nor "satanic" to search for the hardest setting possible in any situation, unless you truly enjoy just fucking with yourself.


Edited by CCB (06/15/17 01:42 PM)

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#113226 - 06/15/17 02:48 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: CCB]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CCB
The answer depends on who you are, I.e what your characteristics and desires are.


Doesn't seem to matter what desires are in place. People that live beyond their means still over-breed, then fall back on sucking the government tit to feed/house those kids. I'd say it's more of a challenge *not* to breed than breed. Breeding is easy, you don't have to do shit but throw caution to the wind at the right time.

 Originally Posted By: CCB
It's neither agreeable in my opinion nor "satanic" to search for the hardest setting possible in any situation, unless you truly enjoy just fucking with yourself.


And realizing you've made a grave error in favor of feels isn't?
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