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#111496 - 02/23/17 07:25 PM Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism.
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile


Former Black Metal musician Varg Vikernes gives his thoughts on Men Going Their Own Way and Feminism.

He says that these movements are actually good since they keep inferior men and women from reproducing, which allows alpha males to get together with the best females and form strong, healthy families.

Thoughts on this? Satanism, as far as I know is all about might and since starting a family is quite hard, wouldn't it be proof of how strong one is? Leaving a sort of legacy to endure? Isn't it saying "fuck it I don't need anyone" just playing life on an easier setting?


Edited by Sargeist (02/23/17 07:27 PM)
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#111497 - 02/23/17 08:56 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
Meh, breeding is overrated. Also, every DHS office that exists refutes his assertion. IMO It is the most mundane that provide the most children, and not indicative of alpha status.

I don't think it's easier, it's just not wanting a little crying shit that needs + a rejection of the old ways.

Three up, three down.
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#111501 - 02/24/17 05:03 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Sarge
Isn't it saying "fuck it I don't need anyone" just playing life on an easier setting?


There's a clear difference between need and want. I agree with Canis, you don't have to breed. The Proletariat breeds like rabbits and it's far from the best of the best. It's not the inferior refusing to breed, it's the opposite.

People were pretty shocked when I got sterilized because they believe I'm young enough to want to have more children. Been 21 years, I've not changed my mind about it.


Feminism proper is about equal treatment under the law anyway, it doesn't have shit to do with breeding.

I can't take this guy serious. He comes off an idiot.

As for how Satanism ties in here, you'd be hard pressed because many would argue against embracing Nomos as pragmatic. It would be more left-handed to exploit laws for your purposes, not follow them.

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#111502 - 02/24/17 06:50 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
People like Varg are gaining followers because many see the current state of affairs as indication that the modern world is about to collapse. He offers a choice: either to embrace the old and create a different, better society or enjoy the party till everything goes to shit and humans are no more. And plenty of people (if social media is to be taken as a serious measurement of anything) are seduced by this idea of reverting back to the ways of their European forebears.

You both make good points, which is why perhaps it's better to just walk one's path without being concerned if someone comes along or not.
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#111504 - 02/24/17 08:13 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Sargeist]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
? Satanism, as far as I know is all about might and since starting a family is quite hard, wouldn't it be proof of how strong one is?


You have really peculiar views on Satanism and I wonder where you get them from.

If you want to have children, then go and have as many as you want and can afford.

If you don't want to have children, then don't have children.

It's that simple.
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#111505 - 02/24/17 08:46 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Czereda]
IronWizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/25/15
Posts: 37
Varg is exactly right yet again. Yeah, sure, MGTOW are waste flesh for the most part, but it is good that they are the way they are so they don't reproduce and creste more losers.
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#111506 - 02/25/17 07:42 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: IronWizard]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
either to embrace the old and create a different, better society or enjoy the party till everything goes to shit and humans are no more.


In today's society you can't embrace the old. Are you willing to see to it that women's rights to vote are taken away? That is perhaps the only way we could actualize 'the old traditionalism' everyone is so nostalgic about.

In reality, things have changed so much that there is no going back due to women's libtardation, and the like. The courts uphold all of this, with men in their scopes.


 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
perhaps it's better to just walk one's path without being concerned if someone comes along or not.


Which is the whole philosophy of MGTOW. One cannot walk their own path being married. You marry a woman in western culture, you give up your life as a free man.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
If you want to have children, then go and have as many as you want and can afford.

If you don't want to have children, then don't have children.

It's that simple.


Except when women have kids from another man, or decides to sperm jack a guy and get herself pregnant that way. Men have no say when a woman gets pregnant.

Or they get pregnant in a situation where DNA testing is either illegal, or the woman has rights to say 'no test' and that's that.

In either case the courts rules wherein the man has to pay up for a kid who he doesn't know is his own or not.


 Quote:
Varg is exactly right yet again. Yeah, sure, MGTOW are waste flesh for the most part, but it is good that they are the way they are so they don't reproduce and creste more losers.


I can't agree with you here, or the fucktard in this video.

It is exactly this guy's mentality that allows for the mass spewing of nomian values to replicate what LaVey called 'disposable generations' of people. MGTOW is different because unlike the family unit, this allows for men to live their life free from nomian ways/social validation. The weak are breeding.

See a MGTOW respond

If Satanism promotes one to become their own maker, they shoudl not get involved in situations wherein they will be forced into compliance, hence why more and more men are staying away from marriage and kids altogether.

LaVey also promoted artificial companions. If I didn't know any better I'd say that MGTOW is Satanism, minus the female alter.

*
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Feminism proper is about equal treatment under the law anyway, it doesn't have shit to do with breeding.


I think it does. I've heard these people talk about being 'outbred' by the right, and I see just as many from the feminist/hippy crowd reproducing at obnoxious rates. Just because femtardism claims equality doesn't mean that's what it acts upon. It is clear now that it is about getting social domination through proxy by way of getting control of the government and having laws made in their favour, which in your context of 'seizing advantage' would be quite satanic indeed, but that's it. When men stop having relationships with women altogether, what power do women have except their right to vote? I refuse to call them Satanic on account of their need for proxy, constant social validation and absolute lack of personal development.

 Quote:
I can't take this guy serious. He comes off an idiot.


Him and so many more. Men are quick to denounce MGTOW because they are afraid of leaving female validation and will cling to any defence in order to retain the behaviour they've been conditioned to live by.
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#111508 - 02/25/17 12:04 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
duhsquidbilly Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/07/16
Posts: 37
Loc: CO,USA
@ Sargeist:

 Quote:
. And plenty of people (if social media is to be taken as a serious measurement of anything) are seduced by this idea of reverting back to the ways of their European forebears.


Divine Right, serfdom, slaves to your lord, these are not things I would voluntarily yoke upon myself. Of course elitism with a dash of lex talionis would shake up society more than could be postulated. Rule by the smartest and ablest, is without all the unnecessary platitudes...I.e. prince, king, queen, bishop, groom of the stool... et cetera, sounds sinister enough to spark my appetite. Rule by the most sinister without hereditary rule, the stronger of the leaders followers weed themselves out until one is left ( Stalin and Trotsky, Himmler and Heydrich) solves the issue of transference of power. Now I am rambling....😈

Re: Creatura Noptii
 Quote:

I think it does. I've heard these people talk about being 'outbred' by the right, and I see just as many from the feminist/hippy crowd reproducing at obnoxious rates. Just because femtardism claims equality doesn't mean that's what it acts upon. It is clear now that it is about getting social domination through proxy by way of getting control of the government and having laws made in their favour, which in your context of 'seizing advantage' would be quite satanic indeed, but that's it. When men stop having relationships with women altogether, what power do women have except their right to vote? I refuse to call them Satanic on account of their need for proxy, constant social validation and absolute lack of personal development.


I agree, I went to two feminist protests and rallies this past week and surprise surprise these ladies were showing off there husbands and all the new miglets, niglets, and wiglets. I overheard that feminist strategy was now to bring men into the fold who accept there radical views. ( The same views I hold for the hour or two when I am trying to bone one) The guys I spoke with, most of whom were "white" cheered and applauded when things like white wealth should be redistributed to non-whites, and when a libtard teacher, on the state's payroll, calls our president "commander-in-saltine". Aka he just called a crowd of white people crackers and they all applauded, I called the bastard an idiot racist to his face loudly when there was a pause in his racial tirade. Again, the same speaker said all "oppressed" people were going to get theirs one way or the other, rather from the oppressors.
Oppressed People being anyone not a white male, and Oppressors being the white male exclusively. Surely, applause again....
So, I attended rallies were white men cheered when they were insulted, told they were the cause of everyone else's woes, how shitty they treat their spouses because white males are all wife beating sexist bigots by default. Even though he drove her there in that shitty 2016 Mercedes, how plebian.
Where did these men's balls go. How do you applaud stupid shit that paints you as a fucking monster? liberal-fucktardedness ( if I may coin a phrase) has these men so pussy whipped, so white guilted that they wouldn't question a damn thing or disagree with the aforementioned rabble rouser. Also, I heard topless protesting is now illegal here, why did you wait so long FEMEN?
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#111515 - 02/26/17 02:36 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: duhsquidbilly]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
[quick reply]
Many of the man's-movements I came across are filled with frustrated and flustered men. People who, like vegans and other groups, want to be special.

There are a few good "men" who write and share from a realist perspective. There's just many more who use the platform to hang-out cuck-fantasies in the form of "experiences" (which probably didn't happen).

Both the male's movements and Feminism are swarmed by fat neckbeards. Decent people generally don't care about either groups and if the choice comes up will pick one and proclaim a "moderate" stance to avoid peer-pressure. During a conflict either remain in the back or will act as some sort of diplomat.

Both sides are equally worse.
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#111518 - 02/26/17 07:32 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Men have no say when a woman gets pregnant.

Melodramatic nonsense. As a general rule, if you are vigilant in looking out for your own interests you can neither be duped into knocking a woman up nor roped into paying child support for some other guy's kid.

In my experience, 99,999 times out of 100,000, the guy who is wailing about how unfair the system was on him is some bozo who did something stupid that got him into it in the first place.

The most common scenario is the guy just wanted to get his dick wet and didn't stop to think about consequences and didn't bother to use a condom. Fuck you, you're a moron, what do you think happens when you have unprotected sex? Same goes for the woman, btw. No sympathy for either.

The second most common scenario is the woman who lies about being infertile, or who claims to be on birth control (but isn't). She's a scumbag, and IMO should be prosecuted for sexual assault (since he consented based on fraud). But you're a massive sucker for buying that shit. You don't have "super sperm," dingus. If she's infertile--that is, she doesn't make eggs--the most super-duper sperm in the world ain't gonna make up for that. It takes both an egg and a sperm to make a baby, or didn't you pay attention in biology class? Fuck him, too. (And I've seen the inverse, which isn't as rare as you may think--a guy telling a girl that he's infertile, because he hopes knocking her up well compel her to stay with him. Because all his girlfriends keep leaving him. Gee, I wonder why.)

And then, of course, there are the people who don't know how to use birth control. Read the fucking manual. You take the pill every day, not just when you fuck. Pinch the tip of the condom to create a jizz reservoir. Pull out immediately after ejaculating. Don't use oil-based lubes with latex! And FFS, do not re-use condoms.

Sidebar: one horror story of the guy who knocked up a girl he never fucked was not a case of sperm-jacking, but a case of dipshits who didn't understand how condoms work. Two couples were fucking in the same car. They had one condom. After couple #1 finished, they passed the condom to couple #2, who turned it inside out (don't want the other guy's spooge on me--that would be gay!) and proceeded to use it again. You guessed it-- girl #2 got knocked up with guy #1's baby. Fucking gross, people. Use as directed.

Now the few cases of legitimate spermjacking--fishing sperm out of used condoms or procuring it from a blow job--those are seriously vile. Also extremely rare. What can I say? CYA. Inspect your condom carefully for holes. Fill your used condom with spermicidal foam. Tie it with a square knot. Dispose of it somewhere nasty like a toilet tank or litterbox. It's a dangerous world out there.

But overall, most predatory people are opportunists and are going to go for the low-hanging fruit. Your chances are much higher of being a royal dipshit than of being a poor, innocent victim of an evil genius. Don't be the low-hanging fruit, yo.

 Quote:
Except when women have kids from another man... Or they get pregnant in a situation where DNA testing is either illegal, or the woman has rights to say 'no test' and that's that.

That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

Sure, it seems that way to some people--usually people who aren't terribly sophisticated, to whom the legal system seems incomprehensible and magic and frightening. The same sort of people who see being arrested as a random, unfortunate occurrence akin to getting a flat tire (i.e. not something within the scope of their control).

The truth is, there are tons of legal procedures in place to safeguard the rights of men, fathers, and alleged fathers, but many do not understand what their rights are or how it works. Even when you try to explain it to them, they don't always get it. They feel like they're being sandbagged because they don't understand it, but if you get the law (or get a lawyer) the law is on your side if you're not the father.

I practice in Texas, so let me explain how it works in Texas.

Firstly, a DNA test is never illegal. Ever. There are circumstances under which a court may not order a DNA test, but nothing is stopping you from doing one yourself. It's a free country. You can swab the kid's cheek yourself during weekend visitation and mail it off. You don't even need mom's DNA.

There are three ways a man may be found to be the father: establishment, presumption, and acknowledgement. Establishment means the mother or the state brings a lawsuit to establish the man as the father. Presumption means the man was married to the mother or lived with the kid continuously and told everyone he was the kid's father (think of it as like common-law marriage, except as a parent instead of spouse). Acknowledgement means the man signed a document under oath stating that he was the kid's father.

Let's talk about paternity actions.

In a paternity action, a DNA test is mandatory if anyone requests it. Period. It's also mandatory if the father is incarcerated (case law says an admission or default of paternity on a man behind bars is coercive). And it's mandatory if someone else was presumed or acknowledged to be the father.

Mothers never have the right to unilaterally refuse a DNA test in a paternity case. If DNA is requested or required, refusing a DNA test will either get her case dismissed (possibly with prejudice, if she brought the action) or her incarcerated up to 6 months for contempt of court.

So how might some poor sap who's not the father be named the father in a paternity action? A default. Simply put, he doesn't show up to court.

He has to be served--he will be handed a copy of the pleading by the sheriff. He will be told he's being sued. He will be notified of when and where the hearing will be. Literally all he has to do is show up and say he wants a DNA test, or file a written answer with the district clerk requesting a DNA test. That's it. If he needs some time to think about it or hire a lawyer, he can do that as well by requesting the judge give him some time for that. And the court can't issue a ruling until the first Monday after he's had at least 20 days to respond.

Many don't, because they don't understand. They hide. They're scared and confused by the legal system. They think maybe if they don't show up, nothing will happen.

Well, the court isn't going to sit around waiting for him to pull his head out of the sand. They're not going to put everything on ice and expect the mother to just wait it out until he feels like coming to court. They're going to issue a ruling based on her testimony alone, because of he can't even be bothered to write "I can haz DNA?" it's kind of futile to wait on him.

Even then--if the guy admitted or was defaulted on paternity, he has an absolute right to terminate the parent- child relationship if he later produces DNA results showing he is not the father. The court does not have discretion to deny the termination. He has an absolute right to the termination under the law. Texas Family Code 161.005(h).

As for presumed fathers, they have the right to challenge their paternity. Texas Family Code Section 160.607. As with any other cause of action, there is a statute of limitations. They have raise the issue timely once they're made aware that they might not be the father. They can't wait around for years knowing they might not be the father and then whine about it later down the road.

And you know what? That's on him. Statutes of limitations exist for a reason. If you become aware that you have a legal interest that needs protecting, you need to hop on that right away. Don't sit around with your thumb up your ass and then raise something like that on people long after the fact.

Then there's acknowledged fathers--those guys who swore under oath that they were the child's father. Even they can challenge their paternity. The standards are admittedly pretty stringent--a much shorter statute of limitations, a higher standard of evidence, more discretion for the court to deny the claim--but he still has the option of bringing the suit. And he's the one who swore under oath that he was the kid's father in the first place.

In short, there is no circumstance whatsoever under which a man is stuck being named the father where he has no say-so. Every man has the option of challenging his alleged--or even established--paternity, if he follows the proper procedures.

Many don't understand this, unfortunately. They just walk up to the judge during docket call and ask if they can terminate their rights. Judges aren't magical fairy godmothers who can grant your wish that you just verbally request on the spot.

You have to put your request in writing so it's clear what's at issue. You have to get the other parent served. Even if you're absolutely entitled to something by law, you still have to notify the other party because of due process.

They really have a hard time wrapping their heads around that. "Well I texted the other party, they know there's a hearing today." That's not sufficient. If courts let people proceed on that basis it would be a disaster. So many people would abuse that. Even if, in your particular case, the other party has actual notice, you still need to do things properly.

(Women have the same problem, btw. They constantly say they texted their ex or they want to terminate their rights or they want to terminate his rights, and have a rough time understanding why they can't just informally tell the judge what they'd like as if they were ordering a burger.)

The same goes for men seeking custody, btw. The #1 reason men don't get custody is because they don't actually petition for it. They just go up the judge after the mom has petitioned for child support and say something about wanting custody. It doesn't work that way! The court is barred from considering matters that are not properly raised in pleadings.

The law as written isn't slanted in women's favor at all. If I had to pinpoint a single reason why men are at a disadvantage in family courts, it would be that women--for whatever reason--are more likely to actually get lawyers. Men have this DIY attitude, are too proud to admit that they're out of their element and don't know what they're doing, and are more likely to proceed pro se. It bites them in the ass big time, because law is not one of those things you want to try to handle yourself if you're not trained in it.
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#111525 - 02/27/17 09:34 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
Thank you Xiao for the class on how to avoid unwanted Fatherhood. That is why I can't take MGTOW seriously, on the surface they may seem like a movement set out to restore men's independence but dig a little deeper and they just turn out to be whiners bitching about "muh rights!" Not much difference compared to feminists.
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#111526 - 02/27/17 09:50 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Sargeist]
little_satan15 Offline
lurker


Registered: 12/16/16
Posts: 1
Loc: rock springs wyoming
ps the hole satanic sex thing is not just slanted towards women it has to do with men to because with out the man you wouldn't be here so think before you type dumb ass
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#111529 - 02/28/17 11:46 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: little_satan15]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
dig a little deeper and they just turn out to be whiners bitching about "muh rights!" Not much difference compared to feminists.


I bet you've done little to no digging at all. MGTOW is based on stats, reality. Feminism is based entirely on bullshit. Prove me fucking wrong, I dare you.

Perhaps you just want to take the middle ground to play it safe, but all you're doing is fucking yourself in the head. MGTOW are right, Feminism is wrong. This is the reality of the situation.

Let's take a few Feminist claims and do a little satanic trick on 'em:

Women are oppressed by men

Women are used by men

Women are objectified as a resource by men

Men depend on women

Women are underprivileged and divorce is hard on women

Dead beat dads are the reason women leave men

White men get money just for being men:

INVERSION= TRUTH, in this case:

Men are oppressed by women

Men are used by women

Men are objectified as nothing more than a bank account to suck from.

Women depend on men

Women have great privilege because they practically get amnesty from any wrong doing in a marriage, and can wipe their ass with common divorce law because the judges will lay almost every, if not all financial responsibility on the men.

I don't know if judges get paid off, or what the case is, but I've spoken with people who have seen good hard working men loose their children to CRACK WHORES without explanation.

Women leave men because they know they will have the most sympathy in court and are almost always entitled to half the man's belongings. With things like no fault divorce, women can just up and leave men and fuck up their life.

As XG pointed out, a lot of men don't show up because they are afraid. And she's right, the law must be challenged, and it is often the case that men must defend their rights to the bone while women get legally pampered.

A great deal of these men who have to pay alimony and child support are good working men, not dead beats. Their income is simply not enough *after payments are extracted to keep up a decent living.

Let's face it, women get paid just for being women. Go to a strip bar. You'll see fat disgusting strippers now, what with fat acceptance becoming the norm.

Men are opting out of a system that would use and dispose of them, and the men who claim this is 'beta behaviour' are probably jealous married retards who know they are totally fucked, while MGTOW can enjoy life at leisure with no worries.

Personally I hardly talk to women any more. They lack character, intellect, and have little to no self discipline. A spoiled princess entitlement installed as the OP on every machine now, no matter how nice the hardware.

At this point in my life I don't see any reason to associate with women. It also amazes me how a man who leaves everyone alone is attacked so hard by hordes of married dipshits. Get lost.

In any case, I'm not going to list any sources just yet. I'm actually going to let you fuckers try to prove me wrong.

Here are some places to start your research:

*How many men are paying child support and jailed for lack of payments

*Who gets awarded custody most often

*How many women are on welfare compared to men

*Who are the majority voters between the sexes

Well seeing as how I have no family to support, no woman telling me what to do, no kids screaming at me, I think I'll go do whatever the fuck I want with my day, no ties, no strings, no shit.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (02/28/17 11:55 AM)
Edit Reason: *
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#111541 - 03/01/17 09:47 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
I think it does. I've heard these people talk about being 'outbred' by the right, and I see just as many from the feminist/hippy crowd reproducing at obnoxious rates. Just because femtardism claims equality doesn't mean that's what it acts upon. It is clear now that it is about getting social domination through proxy by way of getting control of the government and having laws made in their favour, which in your context of 'seizing advantage' would be quite satanic indeed, but that's it. When men stop having relationships with women altogether, what power do women have except their right to vote? I refuse to call them Satanic on account of their need for proxy, constant social validation and absolute lack of personal development.


I think you're confusing the impulse to breed with laws about it. There's a difference. As I stated Feminism Proper is about equal treatment under established laws, everything else is just social fare. Stats can be used to paint any picture, it's all in the manipulation of the data for one's ends.

Another example (Virginia): When I filed my divorce, the Commonwealth still uses abandonment laws. In other words, because my spouse contested it and could have grounds of proof for abandonment of the marriage, I would have been libel to pay spousal support until he remarried (I was the bread-winner). There are ways to argue against the law, fight the Judge's initial ruling and turn the whole thing on its head and off the table. You just have to know the game you're playing, and play it better than your opponent.

The same is true for family law, and what so-called "Rights" people have or don't have when it comes to children. Not to mention the thousands that get on, with no involvement of the law what-so-ever. Many people are willing to work it out among themselves (for better or worse) and not get the system involved in their business. So what is confused as Feminism is often something else entirely. Social attitudes ebb and flow as a natural progression. Hell, 21st century and plenty of people are looking back to prior centuries as if it wasn't so bad. People are tired. Tired of being a cog in the machine, so they need something to shoulder their lack of ambition. To say "Well men oppress us!" is just another scapegoat. Look at history, no matter the law of the land - there have been people that have risen above, worked in shadow and rose to power in spite of the Den of Inequity.

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#111549 - 03/01/17 06:51 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
As XG pointed out, a lot of men don't show up because they are afraid. And she's right, the law must be challenged, and it is often the case that men must defend their rights to the bone while women get legally pampered.

A great deal of these men who have to pay alimony and child support are good working men, not dead beats. Their income is simply not enough *after payments are extracted to keep up a decent living.


Cry me a river, CN. The primary reason why men don't show up at court to demand child custody is because they are lazy asses who most of the time are glad that the burden of bringing up a child is taken off their shoulders. Most prefer to pay the child support money (which in my country is ridiculously low) than put an effort into looking after their own offspring. It's good if they are responsible enough to support the child financially because plenty of males do everything possible, including hiding their incomes or getting paid under the table, to avoid paying the child support.

I remember how it was with my own daddy. My father didn't want to pay the child support so when I was underage, my mother had to sue him. When I grew up but was still studying, I had to fight for the money myself. I didn't get the money automatically. I had to convince the judge that I really needed the money, that I couldn't do without it and that my study schedule wouldn't let me get a job. My dad wasn't even angry with me but was happy he had his precious freedom. Now he's over 60 (God bless his soul) and still lives the life of Casanova.

If I were to speak from experience, I could say that all men are good for nothing. You would then probably protest and say I'm overgeneralizing. And rightly so. For sure, there are men who are responsible and take care of their families. It takes both to tango. When the relationship breaks, whether it's a formal marriage or just partnership, usually both parties are to blame. Some men and also women are not a material for a husband, wife or a father, mother. I don't know about you. You sound bitter. Either you haven't met a suitable woman for yourself yet, or you got your ass kicked by life too many times or, perhaps, you aren't such a poor innocent guy you seem to portray yourself to be.


Edited by Czereda (03/01/17 06:58 PM)
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#111563 - 03/02/17 02:52 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think you're confusing the impulse to breed with laws about it.


No. I meant just what I said: groups have it in their mind to breed in competition against opposing groups. Feminism, hippies, SJWs and the like are trying to outbreed the conservatives, and vice-versa.

 Quote:
You just have to know the game you're playing, and play it better than your opponent.


True, perhaps men should buckle down and learn more on the darker side of common female nature.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Cry me a river, CN. The primary reason why men don't show up at court to demand child custody is because they are lazy asses


Oh please, you know what I'm saying here. No crying at all, just explaining the facts as they stand. Just stop, this issue of the dead beat dad is a poor backup. Men have to take pay under the table after divorce because their regular pay is ripped from their wallets and can't afford a regular life, as stated above. I think women are fucking lazy.

 Quote:
I remember how it was with my own daddy.


Cry me a river...

 Quote:
Now he's over 60 (God bless his soul) and still lives the life of Casanova.


Fuck god, and good for that guy.

 Quote:
If I were to speak from experience, I could say that all men are good for nothing. You would then probably protest and say I'm overgeneralising. And rightly so.


Indeed, seeing as how over ninety-five percent of all inventions are by men. Women on the other hand... I believe in LaVey's idea of 'the forbidden market' of artificial companions. What will happen of biological women when men craft and purchase artificial wombs and sex robots in the future?

 Quote:
When the relationship breaks, whether it's a formal marriage or just partnership, usually both parties are to blame.

Unless you consider no fault divorce, wherein a woman can just decide 'he's a lazy ass,' even though the man clearly isn't, and will be entitled to half his assets in the process. Again, look at the welfare state and who sucks up the most of it, who initiates the divorces, and how these so called 'dead beats' are charged so much money and judged as being the primary recipients of child care payments, and how many are locked up because they can't keep up with the outrageous costs.

 Quote:
Some men and also women are not a material for a husband, wife or a father, mother.


Indeed, I actually agree with you here. I think one disposable generation after the next has created a mass land fill of utter stupidity, however, I think it may have to do with how many males are raised without father figures to help them build backbone, and how many women are raised with a spoiled princess bitch entitlement mentality that they should get respect and admiration for being a crazy stupid woman. These problems happen for reasons, mainly due to upbringing, social environments, and life experience (or lack thereof).

 Quote:
I don't know about you. You sound bitter. Either you haven't met a suitable woman for yourself yet, or you got your ass kicked by life too many times or, perhaps, you aren't such a poor innocent guy you seem to portray yourself to be.


All true. Never had my ass kicked by life, but its bitten me in the ass quite a few times. I'm still here. Innocent? When have I ever professed innocence or guilt? I've learned to avoid women due to experience. I gave women a lot, I wasn't ever a mangina or a white knite and I gave them my time, affection, and resource, and all I got was a knife in the back. At some point a man has to look at himself and avoid the things that are turning his life into a cluster fuck of bullshit. Its the only logical thing to do.

I think MGTOW is entirely logical in this day and age for any rational man. It is unfortunate that men have been turned into weaklings, grovelling at the feet of angry fat bitches with no remorse. I don't have sympathy for their plight. Masculinity itself is what makes or breaks the real change that goes on in society. I think it is men's fault that women have become so untrustworthy. Their fault for sucking up to women's bullshit. As it stands now, most women are spoiled rotten, the courts are nuts, and for all better and worse cases, men are to blame.
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#111569 - 03/02/17 06:41 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
The story about my dad is only an example, one of the many. The decision to have a child was mutual. There was a time when both my mother and father loved each other and they both wanted to have a family. When my cousin fucked his girlfriend, he knew very well she didn't use anti conception. She didn't lie to him. He didn't use anti conception either. They didn't think about it. They simply wanted to have nice time. The baby that arrived by accident was their mutual responsibility.

You wrote that men have no say about woman's pregnancy but it's not always the case. You have every right not to deal with women and children if you want to but there are males who think more with their dicks than brains and then they cry about the consequences.

As far as the law goes, I know plenty of cases of women losing their parental rights. I think you are a little bit biased.
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#111576 - 03/03/17 10:06 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
No. I meant just what I said: groups have it in their mind to breed in competition against opposing groups. Feminism, hippies, SJWs and the like are trying to outbreed the conservatives, and vice-versa.


I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of conscious willful action. The Proletariat has a tendency to breed out of impulse and more often than not with blatant disregard of ability. This accounts for why so many live beyond their means, have additional children to complexion the situation and end up on social programs just to survive.

A certain sort with that mind set have access to just as many scapegoats for their own lack of planning. This is why the Rich are evil, Corporations are the new empires and why they demand that they pay alms to the poor.
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#111588 - 03/03/17 11:37 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
The story about my dad is only an example, one of the many.


Yes, and my example of women leaving men for no other reason than auto-entitlement to AT LEAST half of a man's assets is how women are getting by these days, according to the stats, a much more frequent example than yours.

 Quote:
there are males who think more with their dicks than brains and then they cry about the consequences.


Aaahhh fuck whatever. I hear the same stupid argument from women all the fucking time. 'I outgrew him, he was too lazy, he had a drinking problem...'

Yet they never say anything in regards to their own behaviour while pouring mass globs of booze and cigarettes down their own gullet. Always the man's fault.

And here you so called satanist women who one might think would offer an alternate narrative...

Yet it seems to be the same here.

Men are lazy you say...

Look fucking at everything around you. Invented by men.

Men work more than women on average, and earn more because of it.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I think you are a little bit biased.


Sure. I'm as biased as they come because the facts are the facts. Fucking good for me.

I think the judges and the women are biased. Regardless of your assumption about my attitude, the facts remain.


I don't know quite about you satanist women, I've even seen a video of SIN here talking about how she sees men's strength as a resource to consume.

Doesn't stand out from any other female behaviour.

Yet I must say, if men allow themselves to be used, their plight not mine.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of conscious willful action


I've heard people talk about it, from both sides.
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#111594 - 03/03/17 01:45 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Well there indeed exist better examples of "Satanic Women"..

Anyway, your average woman is like your average man.
Give it an easy opportunity and it will ask for more.
Plain old greed.

Hamstering takes place with both genders. Women are generally more vocal about it whereas men generally swallow their pride and start a bit of boozing.

Women are cunts and guys are dicks.
Luckily one fits into another.

There's a truth between all sexist remarks. Inconvenient and subtle yet present.. albeit for other reasons than popularly described.
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#111596 - 03/03/17 07:18 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of conscious willful action. The Proletariat has a tendency to breed out of impulse and more often than not with blatant disregard of ability. This accounts for why so many live beyond their means, have additional children to complexion the situation and end up on social programs just to survive.


It's often supported by the state. All those popular narratives about the society getting older and the pension system about to crash if the number of children systematically decreases, about all children being ours and deserving the care of the whole society and not only their parents, the cult of children and treating mothers as special snowflakes, not to mention financial grants and privileges just for having kids - all of this breeds the sense of entitlement. All too often people are brainwashed into believing their life is not their responsibility but the responsibility of the government.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Aaahhh fuck whatever. I hear the same stupid argument from women all the fucking time. 'I outgrew him, he was too lazy, he had a drinking problem...'

Yet they never say anything in regards to their own behaviour while pouring mass globs of booze and cigarettes down their own gullet. Always the man's fault.


Now now where did I say it was all the man's fault? I said when the partnership splits, usually both parties are to blame. You are disappointed with a few women you met in your life and you now overgeneralize and say all women are cunts. A frustrated woman after a couple of failed relationships could also say that all men are dicks. It's the same type of an argument.

 Quote:
Men are lazy you say...

Look fucking at everything around you. Invented by men.

Men work more than women on average, and earn more because of it.


Now you sound like a typical disgruntled male chauvinist. Poor you.

But seriously, what does that have to do with the topic? We are talking about relationships. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to be with a woman if you don't want to. Some people make poor choices, mate with the wrong people, let themselves be used and then, instead of owning up to their own naivety, they continue to complain and blame the whole world for their disillusionment.
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#111603 - 03/04/17 12:57 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
I bet you've done little to no digging at all. MGTOW is based on stats, reality. Feminism is based entirely on bullshit. Prove me fucking wrong, I dare you.

Both terms are used by a large variety of people to mean a number of different things. Both groups consist primarily of misguided douches who need a cause to feel schpecial, secondarily of bitter losers who hate the opposite sex because they're not getting any action, and occasionally have a damn decent person who makes a decent point. Like about any other cause, really.

It ain't about "middle ground" so much as side- eyeing the notion of activism itself, which is a flaw common to both.

 Quote:
Let's take a few Feminist claims and do a little satanic trick on 'em:


Women are oppressed by men//Men are oppressed by women
I'd argue any claim that (group) is oppressing (group) is a load of bull. There's no evil genius trying to keep you down. You fail because you suck.

If you live in Sub-Saharan Africa and the village makes up its mind that you're a witch, you just might actually be "oppressed." If you were born with certain disadvantages due to class/ wealth/ culture/ geography/ etc., that's 99% of the time shit luck, not The Patriarchy or some other big bad actively trying to fuck you over.

People seem to mistake apathy for oppression. I'm not oppressing the hobo when I ignore his pleas for change. I'm not helping, that doesn't mean I'm actively hurting him.

Same goes for "underprivileged".

Women are used by men//Men are used by women.

Both are true. Women are also used by women, and men by men. People using people is the human condition.

Same goes for objectification, dependence, etc.

Dead beat dads are the reason women leave men

Typically the person doing the leaving is the one who could do better (hence the leaving). The dumper is usually more of a catch than the dumpee, regardless of gender.

White men get money just for being men:

Yeah, that SJW myth is dumb.

Women have great privilege because they practically get amnesty from any wrong doing in a marriage, and can wipe their ass with common divorce law because the judges will lay almost every, if not all financial responsibility on the men.

As I've explained, nonsense.

Women have a real privilege/ advantage in criminal courts, where they routinely get lenient sentences. Family courts, as I've explained, not really.

 Quote:
I don't know if judges get paid off, or what the case is, but I've spoken with people who have seen good hard working men loose their children to CRACK WHORES without explanation.


I'd love to see those court files, because just about every time I hear a sob story like this it's because some idiot tried to represent himself and didn't have the foggiest clue da fuck he was doing.

Lemme guess, he never actually petitioned for custody. He sorta mentioned it offhand to the judge, and the judge flatly ignored him because the judge was legally barred from considering requests not properly plead for.

Heck, I'll bet my left arm crack whore had a lawyer and dad didn't. That, or dad hired Mr. Bean to be his lawyer.

I'll tell you something-- I've seen several custody disputes with the inverse, where dad had a lawyer and mom did not. And in every single last one of those cases, dad got custody. Funny how that happens.

Oh, and by the by, I'm extremely skeptical of of the "good hard -working man" who somehow thought it was a good idea to marry and have kids with a crack whore. Usually if one parent is a jackass, the other is, too. If he's such a great guy, why'd he knock up a crack whore?

 Quote:
With things like no fault divorce, women can just up and leave men and fuck up their life.


What's the alternative to no-fault divorce? Forcing people to stay together? You really think making someone stay with someone they hate would be an improvement?

A great deal of these men who have to pay alimony and child support are good working men, not dead beats. Their income is simply not enough *after payments are extracted to keep up a decent living.

Alimony is baloney, and abolishing it is one of the best points MHRAs have, IMO. I'm glad it's not a thing at all in Texas.

Alimony is a relic of English common law, which treated marriage like adoption of a child. (Worth noting that dowries, a large lump sum provided to the groom by the bride's family, were for that reason, and cushioned the cost of possible alimony.)

Texas, like most border states, follows Spanish civil law instead of English common law. Marriage is treated like a business partnership instead of a dependent adoption. Assets are divided like they are when a business partnership dissolves-- no continuing duty of support to a former spouse is owed. (Courts only occasionally award "spousal support" in extreme cases, like when one spouse is wheelchair bound from being thrown down a flight of stairs by the ex.)

Child support, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. You make another person that has no choice but to depend on you? You provide for that person. If you can't afford to, wrap it up.

I can see advocating for child support reform--e.g. money must be spent on the kid, parent must have actual custody to receive it. But abolishing it? Flat nonsense.

Let's face it, women get paid just for being women.

This is actually true. It's half due to indulgence of feminist entitlement, and half due to sexual supply and demand.

Go to a strip bar. You'll see fat disgusting strippers now, what with fat acceptance becoming the norm.

I'm betting specific fetishes and/or beer goggles have more to do with that than fat acceptance.

In any case, I'm not going to list any sources just yet. I'm actually going to let you try to prove me wrong.

This is known as burden- shifting.

 Quote:
Who gets awarded custody most often

Men, actually. When men actually petition for custody, they are more likely to win. Most custody arrangements are agreements or defaults, not "awards".

This goes back to that whole understanding how the legal system works thing.

The custody gap exists for the same reason the wage gap does: when you don't even try, failure is guaranteed.

As for welfare and child support, see above.

So many feminists bitch about how few rapes results in convictions, conveniently failing to mention the number one reason is failure to press charges on the part of the victim. Whining about how few men get custody is no different. In over 90% of cases, the father simply lets the mother have custody-- no dispute.

Who are the majority voters between the sexes

How can you bitch about oppression when something is entirely a function is personal choice? Are there angry feminists engaging in intimidation at the polls or something? Serious weak sauce.
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#111609 - 03/04/17 11:02 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
usually both parties are to blame.


The stats speak otherwise. Women are the ones leaving men, even though men do the most work.

I will however agree that in cases of domestic violence, it is usually reciprocal.

 Quote:
You are disappointed with a few women you met in your life and you now overgeneralize and say all women are cunts.


Yep. Which is why I avoid them altogether for the most part. I also have standards and I have yet to encounter a woman who meets them. That's on me, I know, but personally I'm not looking to be in a relationship, I don't need a woman right now, and perhaps I never will. Living alone isn't so bad when you can internally validate.

As for bitterness... mine comes from many things, and I don't mind having some of it in me. Its merely a product of living life, and when you can see it for what it is, you can live past it if you so choose. That's why I'm living alone. I enjoy solitude, silence, and no strings attached. I can get up and go anywhere anytime I want, no one to bother me if I do. Yet, so many would attack my choice in lifestyle, as if it has anything at all to do with their own. Jealousy reigns.

I will say this. I've come to know about a handful of real women in my life. Not bitches, but real adult women. They are rare indeed, much as a true man is also a rare item these days. I'll agree to that much.

 Quote:
Some people make poor choices, mate with the wrong people, let themselves be used and then, instead of owning up to their own naivety, they continue to complain and blame the whole world for their disillusionment.


True. True indeed. Which is why I won't have anything more to do with women at this point. I really am much happier not persuing their validation. Life is much better. I'll be fucked if any other men will listen. I will say, sometimes I do enjoy telling people off. Feeding the beast, if you will.

And no, that was not being 'disgruntled,' that was calling you bitches out on calling us men lazy.

For the lolz.

 Originally Posted By: XG
I'd argue any claim that (group) is oppressing (group) is a load of bull. There's no evil genius trying to keep you down. You fail because you suck.


You would argue that wouldn't you. It is not a load of bull, and you haven’t addressed the facts I've pointed out about men making more money, and paying for women's bullshit. The last sentence of your above quote might be better narrated out loud by yourself in front of a mirror.

 Quote:
or some other big bad actively trying to fuck you over...

People seem to mistake apathy for oppression. I'm not oppressing the hobo when I ignore his pleas for change. I'm not helping, that doesn't mean I'm actively hurting him.


The patriarchy is not real. Courts, corporations and women who try to fuck people over, are real. So is the fact that men are paying for it. I will say this, a society that allows this to happen is quite ridiculous indeed. It will only end when the majority of men finally get their shit together and stop marrying women.

I can tell you're already trying very hard to steer clear of the facts. Despite your example of the Bum, women and courts are in fact oppressing men when they force men to pay huge loads of money to women who aren't worth shit as wives, parents, or self sufficient adults. The courts are forcing these payments on men probably due to the fact that *continued corruption of all sides gains a fat paycheck, but it is mostly at the expense of men, fully aware of the danger or not.

 Quote:
People using people is the human condition.

When men idolize and worship and kneel down in adoration to women over so many generations, it breeds this entitlement mentality. I agree. When you treat someone like they are a god, they will treat you like shit. This is why men have got to stop bowing down to smelly cunts.

 Quote:
Typically the person doing the leaving is the one who could do better (hence the leaving). The dumper is usually more of a catch than the dumpee, regardless of gender.


I think it has everything to do with gender. It comes down to men's innate sex drives played against them by way of social conditioning which produces a developed psychological desperation for female validation. Women are often not a better catch, simply because they only have so much time before they become undesirable for sex. Men often prefer younger women. Men are stronger and smarter than women on average. Women leave men not because they are such a strong independent adult, let alone a catch, but because they think they can marry up to a higher (richer) class.

And if this were the case, why the welfare?

 Quote:
thought it was a good idea to marry and have kids with a crack whore


She may not have always been one, and probably wasn't all he thought she was from the beginning, as is usually the case. Anyway, doesn't negate the fact about who is a better provider in this particular instance.

 Quote:
What's the alternative to no-fault divorce? Forcing people to stay together? You really think making someone stay with someone they hate would be an improvement?


I'd like the judgement to be based on undeniable evidence wherein the so called 'hatred' for their partner is absolutely proven, or allow no fault divorce and see if women still leave when they realize they are not entitled to anything of the man's belonging. Sure. It would be a great improvement for men not to have to be the majority tax payers for women's stinking laziness.

Fucking yes. Keep the bitches in the kitchen where they belong if that's how they are going to behave.

 Quote:
This is known as burden- shifting.


Not at all. Not even an OUNCE. You either want to do reserach or you do not. I'm not forcing the burden on you, so much as giving you an opportunity. You choose how to view it, nothing to do with me.

 Quote:
The custody gap exists for the same reason the wage gap does


Feminism.

 Quote:
Are there angry feminists engaging in intimidation at the polls or something?

Women are the majority voters, far as I know, and are thus catered to. Personally I don't vote, but I don't often interact with women either, nor will I ever marry. In fact, I think if men just didn't marry women altogether, they'd be happier.

Overall, I meet more single happy men and more unhappy married men.

In my experience, the former has so much more reason to be as they are.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (03/04/17 12:01 PM)
Edit Reason: **
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#111610 - 03/04/17 12:37 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: XG
I'd argue any claim that (group) is oppressing (group) is a load of bull. There's no evil genius trying to keep you down. You fail because you suck.


You haven’t addressed the facts I've pointed out about men making more money, and paying for women's bullshit.


I did, though. As I said above, it's half feminist entitlement being catered to, and half sexual supply and demand. I'm not arguing it doesn't happen; it certainly does. And I'm not arguing it's a good thing; it certainly isn't.

I just wouldn't go so far as to call falling for a con "oppression." People doing that word around a lot. Nobody forces men to buy crap for gold diggers. Being duped into making a bad choice isn't the same as having no choice. It's not the same as being sent to a gulag or burned as a heretic. It's bad, no doubt. But oppression is just too strong of a word.

Is it a problem? Absolutely. Is it oppression? No. I'm just saying oppression is too strong a term for what you're describing.

As for feminist entitlements, Title IX and VAWA and their ilk need major overhauls. I don't think women should get extra funding for being women.

You see me as an enemy. Why, I'm not sure. Because I disagree on some points, or because I'm a woman, or because I told you I practice family law.

Really, I'm not. I absolutely 100% support you going MGTOW. Really, no sarcasm. You're incredibly ahead of the curve to know what you want out of life and to avoid many of the pitfalls and traps that come with dating.

And hey, I also hella respect you for coming into the lion's den instead of holing up in an echo chamber.

 Quote:
The last sentence of your above quote might be better narrated out loud by yourself in front of a mirror.


Such hostility.

I was using the second-person "you" in the generic, impersonal, colloquial sense, i.e. "If someone fails, it's because they suck." I didn't mean it against you personally, if that's the way you took it.

I don't think it's productive to resort to personal attacks. We're here to talk about issues, right? Let's stick to that.

And I really don't think you have any basis for asserting that I'm a failure anyway.

 Quote:
I can tell you're already trying very hard to steer clear of the facts.


So far, you've just described general trends as you perceive them. There's no sources for the facts you allude to. Kinda hard for me to address your sources if you won't tell me what they are.

I'll dig into the remainder later, but that's enough for now. I'm veering dangerously into wall of text territory.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (03/04/17 12:38 PM)
Edit Reason: Quote blocks
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#111614 - 03/04/17 06:37 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Quote:
Courts, corporations and women who try to fuck people over, are real. So is the fact that men are paying for it. I will say this, a society that allows this to happen is quite ridiculous indeed.

So, your proposition is that current family law and the burdens it imposes on men are a problem. Okay. Let's drill down specifically into what the root of the problem is.

Here are the possibilities, as I see them:
(1) The problem is marriage. (You seem to have proposed this. I'll qualify my answer.)
(2) The problem is divorce. (You seem also to have proposed this. In short, I disagree.)
(3) The problem is alimony. (As noted, I agree with this.)
(4) The problem is custody determinations. (I've addressed this, and will further.)
(5) The problem is child support. (As noted, I disagree with this.)

Does that about cover the possibilities? Or have I missed something?

#1: Marriage

 Quote:
It will only end when the majority of men finally get their shit together and stop marrying women.

Too often people end up in shitty marriages because they rush to commit when in the honeymoon/ infatuation phase, and don't really take seriously things like planning/ budgeting.

For instance:
 Quote:
 Quote:
thought it was a good idea to marry and have kids with a crack whore

She may not have always been one, and probably wasn't all he thought she was from the beginning, as is usually the case.

Yeah, rose-colored glasses in romance are a thing. Which is precisely why I think people should be responsible for taking their time and making sure the person they're marrying is worthwhile. I simply don't have much sympathy for a guy made a dumb decision.

I feel hella sorry for the children in that situation. They're the real victims there. They had no choice about their mom being a crack whore, or their dad being a dumbass.

Adults have the ability to look out for their own interests. If they fail to fight for themselves, that is on them. Children don't have any option, and I'm way more sympathetic to them than the stupid adults whose stupid decisions left the children as collateral damage.

If more people either committed to being single (e.g. MGTOW) or were at least comfortable enough being single that they could hold out for a worthy and compatible partner (and be content if no such person came along), a lot of the problem would be solved.

How do we go about accomplishing this goal? I don't know. I'm not sure your battle-of-the-sexes, gender-war hostility is a good solution. I wish cooler heads would prevail, and I think bitterness and rage cloud judgment as much as infatuation and desperation do.

I've seen some MGTOW who were exactly what we need: cool, rational, realistic, and responsible. And I wish them every success. Which is precisely why I find it disappointing to see MGTOW who complain and bitch about women instead of doing something constructive. They give the whole movement a bad name and set it back.

Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining.

#2: Divorce

 Quote:
 Quote:
What's the alternative to no-fault divorce? Forcing people to stay together? You really think making someone stay with someone they hate would be an improvement?

I'd like the judgement to be based on undeniable evidence wherein the so called 'hatred' for their partner is absolutely proven...

In a no-fault divorce, the court does have to enter a finding of irreconcilable differences, by a preponderance of the evidence. Are you saying the finding should be different, or are you saying the standard of evidence should be tougher? What standard would you propose?

Also, I'm curious where you stand on divorces that are merely formalizing separation in fact. Yes, women file for divorce in a majority of cases, but often it's the husband that left the home, and the wife is just making it legally official. Would you grant a divorce under those circumstances, if you were the judge?

Are you aware of how parties went about obtaining divorces prior to no-fault divorce? Google it. Hint: include the word "collusion."

#3: Alimony

 Quote:
...or allow no fault divorce and see if women still leave when they realize they are not entitled to anything of the man's belonging.

You know my stance. No adult should owe a continuing duty of support to another adult.

#4: Custody

 Quote:
Anyway, doesn't negate the fact about who is a better provider in this particular instance.

I don't know whether he was or not, since I know nothing about him. But even assuming for the sake of argument he was a better provider, it's almost an absolute certainty (1) he never petitioned for custody, and (2) he would have gotten custody if he had.

He can't cry if he didn't try.

I've worked with seven judges, and they've all been eminently reasonable. If a father is the better parent, and is better situated to care for the children, and he petitions for custody, he gets custody. Period.

I think it would be in children's overall best interests if fathers got custody more often. But the fact that they don't is on them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, the defeatist assumption that they won't get custody makes them not even try, which guarantees they won't.

If you think men should get custody more often (as I do), but you think the system is responsible instead of men (as I don't), I'm curious:
(1) What element, exactly, of the system do you think is responsible for men not getting custody? and...
(2) What change would you propose to fix it?

And finally...

#5: Child Support

So you've not really stated your stance on this. Let me ask this way: if, for instance, your friend with the crack whore ex had gotten custody, did you think crack whore ex should have to pay him child support? If not, why not?

 Quote:
I can tell you're already trying very hard to steer clear of the facts.

On the contrary, I'm discussing the facts. I've worked on hundreds of SAPCRs and I have more insight than someone's slanted sob story on a blog or statistics that only tell part of the picture.

I haven't heard much of a response from you to the facts I raised.

 Quote:
And if this [the dumper usually can do better than the dumpee] were the case, why the welfare?

People on public assistance make up about 90% of my dockets, so let's be clear that I know what of I speak.

Welfare recipients usually aren't "dumpers." Usually, either their baby daddy skipped town (left them, not the other way around) when they got knocked up, or their baby daddy went to prison for something like burglary. In the few rare cases where the welfare recipient did leave the baby daddy, 80% of the time there was serious domestic violence or drug abuse that practically forced her to flee.

If anything, the welfare recipients, perhaps due to financial constraints, are too reluctant to leave when they should, too quick to forgive and give another chance to batterers, tweakers, and thugs (oh my!). (And then they go have another kid with the guy. Christ on a cracker.)

If you can drum up pity for Mr. Knocked Up A Crack Whore, perhaps you've got a violin for Ms. Third Kid's The Charm That Will Get GangBang McGee To Straighten Out His Life?

I'm consistent in my contempt for both.

 Quote:
 Quote:
This is known as burden- shifting.

Not at all. Not even an OUNCE. You either want to do reserach or you do not. I'm not forcing the burden on you, so much as giving you an opportunity. You choose how to view it, nothing to do with me.

I'm familiar with the stats you cite. I also know why they're flawed. I've seen the confounding variables that skew the results. I've worked hundreds of SAPCRs.

I daresay I have more background knowledge than you, and I echo your invitation. You haven't addressed many facts I raised, primarily the fact that men don't petition for custody in the majority of cases, and win custody in a majority of the cases in which they do. You're ignoring it because it doesn't mesh with your narrative of oppression.

 Quote:
 Quote:
The custody gap exists for the same reason the wage gap does

Feminism.

How is feminism responsible for men failing to petition for custody?
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#111628 - 03/06/17 09:56 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
Regardless of narrative, people have felt entitled because it's easier, always has been. As if these complainers even had a pension to fall back on? Here in the U.S. many people don't even pay Social Security because they've spent the majority of their adult lives either not working or getting paid under the table. Then, they act shocked and bamboozled when there's not a little nest egg there to live on when they are too old to work.

It's too easy to blame brain-washing propaganda because if they understood it from the get-go, they would have worked instead of relying on tax payers to fund their lives.

I understand what you mean in terms of a society though, it's just as much an influencing agent as any other to the youth. Thing is, even the nativity of youth is outgrown (and quickly) once people mature into adults and get out there in the world to see what their made of.

Granted, many people never do. They stay at home with their parents, find some elderly relative to live off of or just go stand in the welfare line.

There are some government systems that provide opportunity. Take for instance, unemployment benefits. Many people survive by working that system. Working only long enough to get terminated then play the 'job seeker game'. There's no real checks and balances there. People can literally just fake job searches, receive money, (even if it's barely enough to live on) and just rinse and repeat.

I'll never understand the mentality, as if barely scraping by = quality of life. Self-defeatist behavior, in my opinion.
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#111705 - 03/10/17 12:03 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
You see me as an enemy. Why, I'm not sure. Because I disagree on some points, or because I'm a woman, or because I told you I practice family law.


Yes, those could be reasons to see you as an enemy. I guess I'd have to ask of your primary focus concerning family law.

No one on this little forum is my enemy. I have no friends, no lovers. I have been accused of being hot headed, hostile, mean, sure. Perhaps I was born with a little more fire in my blood. I enjoy argument. Mean as I am, I've never ruined anyone's life.

 Quote:
Really, I'm not. I absolutely 100% support you going MGTOW.


Not sure how a woman can 'support' a man going on his own path, but hey, if you agree you agree.

 Quote:
Too often people end up in shitty marriages because they rush to commit when in the honeymoon/ infatuation phase, and don't really take seriously things like planning/ budgeting.


If I understand correctly, the honeymoon phase comes after marriage. In my observation it has to do with women having high expectations and a fantasy of a dream life, a wedding, and all other nonsense as soon as possible, and men going along because they are perhaps too young and horny to care.

 Quote:
Adults have the ability to look out for their own interests.


I must admit things are getting harder, the job market isn't as good as reported, yet it seems more and more this 'adult ability' is less common with each oncoming generation. Between corporate greed and mass stupidity festering on both ends, I think people decide on paring up, as if throwing another piece into the mountain of shit is going to make it better.

 Quote:
If more people either committed to being single (e.g. MGTOW) or were at least comfortable enough being single that they could hold out for a worthy and compatible partner (and be content if no such person came along), a lot of the problem would be solved.


I agree.

 Quote:
How do we go about accomplishing this goal? I don't know. I'm not sure your battle-of-the-sexes, gender-war hostility is a good solution. I wish cooler heads would prevail, and I think bitterness and rage cloud judgment as much as infatuation and desperation do.


Indeed, strong emotions that people don't have much experience conducting are going to fail in logic and overall application. Logic and focus are the key. Society is raised on fake lineage, as compared to true lineage. Magical thinking vs. refined skill.

 Quote:
I've seen some MGTOW who were exactly what we need: cool, rational, realistic, and responsible. And I wish them every success. Which is precisely why I find it disappointing to see MGTOW who complain and bitch about women instead of doing something constructive. They give the whole movement a bad name and set it back.

Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining.


This is where we are divided. You seem to be going in circles. You forget why men give up on women (hint: the solution you are looking for is in that last five words of that sentence).

You think men like this? Well I can say eventually they do. Its not easy to live without female contact, but it can be overcome to a man's benifit. Men have the technological mind you see. We have the mind for craft, skill, refinement, meeting our needs directly, unlike women wherein most is obtained through proxy.

Men complain about women because women have betrayed their dedication more than once. It comes with experience. Let their spiteful tongue be a word of wisdom, if not for warning.

 Quote:
are you saying the standard of evidence should be tougher? What standard would you propose?

Also, I'm curious where you stand on divorces that are merely formalizing separation in fact. Yes, women file for divorce in a majority of cases, but often it's the husband that left the home, and the wife is just making it legally official. Would you grant a divorce under those circumstances, if you were the judge?


Depends. Is he leaving because the woman is a super bitch? If she is he needs to get proof. If people are married with no kids, let them separate. Set tougher standards for the couple to remain as such unless proof of dangerous abuse is present.

 Quote:
No adult should owe a continuing duty of support to another adult.


It is a matter of circumstance, man or woman. Divorce alone, not a good excuse. We agree to some level here.

 Quote:
I think it would be in children's overall best interests if fathers got custody more often. But the fact that they don't is on them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, the defeatist assumption that they won't get custody makes them not even try, which guarantees they won't.

If you think men should get custody more often (as I do), but you think the system is responsible instead of men (as I don't), I'm curious:
(1) What element, exactly, of the system do you think is responsible for men not getting custody? and...
(2) What change would you propose to fix it?


I've made it clear that men do need to get their shit together. If in fact you are correct, then so be it. I'll stand better informed on the matter. It is out of pure curiosity as I have no plans on ever marrying, as stated above, it isn't really my circus.

 Quote:
If you can drum up pity for Mr. Knocked Up A Crack Whore, perhaps you've got a violin for Ms. Third Kid's The Charm That Will Get GangBang McGee To Straighten Out His Life?

I'm consistent in my contempt for both.


Well stated and likewise.

Overall, it doesn't concern me all that much. The bottom line is for men to unplug from relationships with women, at least until they understand reality.
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#113194 - 06/13/17 04:05 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Sargeist]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 56
Varg is a stoic...this is where I sadly have to depart from his teachings since (not being as strong as him) I chose another path, a path of feasible happiness in this hostile world - and subsequently racial death by not breeding future warriors enough.

However as a native European I do resonate with him politically and endorse his endeavour to survive the Western Civilization (the society of weak and effeminate) by living simple life in poverty so that our tribalism may one day prevail, and so that native pagan Europeans can have their vengeance at last.

Self-destructive policies of progressive left, muslim immigration, breakdown of Capitalism and corrosion of Christianity may serve as catalysts in this process. Once the Civilization collapses and carnality prevails over the society of human rights those who have wronged us will curse the day they were born.

WOTAN MIT UNS!

https://youtu.be/vIeLW8OPomg
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#113224 - 06/15/17 01:41 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
CCB Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 14
Loc: United States
 Quote:
The Proletariat breeds like rabbits and it's far from the best of the best. It's not the inferior refusing to breed, it's the opposite.


Indications of overall goodness are not always good, just as indications of overall badness aren't always bad. Act and think as you want. But your disposition to sterility doesn't have to be judged as itself great on the grounds that it is possibly indicative of some greatness.

The question wasn't "do less competent beings often reproduce", but "is reproduction more of a challenging goal than non-reproduction". The answer depends on who you are, I.e what your characteristics and desires are. Not that it matters. It's neither agreeable in my opinion nor "satanic" to search for the hardest setting possible in any situation, unless you truly enjoy just fucking with yourself.


Edited by CCB (06/15/17 01:42 PM)

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#113226 - 06/15/17 02:48 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: CCB]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CCB
The answer depends on who you are, I.e what your characteristics and desires are.


Doesn't seem to matter what desires are in place. People that live beyond their means still over-breed, then fall back on sucking the government tit to feed/house those kids. I'd say it's more of a challenge *not* to breed than breed. Breeding is easy, you don't have to do shit but throw caution to the wind at the right time.

 Originally Posted By: CCB
It's neither agreeable in my opinion nor "satanic" to search for the hardest setting possible in any situation, unless you truly enjoy just fucking with yourself.


And realizing you've made a grave error in favor of feels isn't?
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#113229 - 06/15/17 05:40 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
CCB Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 14
Loc: United States
 Quote:
Doesn't seem to matter what desires are in place.


If for example you have a desire not to be responsible, not to have sex, directly not to have children, a hatred for humanity, a dislike for hospitals, a solitary nature, etc., then breeding becomes a more taxing task than if you enjoy it and the things that it entails. It's more of a challenge not to breed than breed if you are less equipped in faculties and inclination toward not reproducing than you are to reproducing, and vice versa. As for what the consensus is, I'd say it is harder for most people to abstain from breeding (especially if we take rearing out of the equation), being part of natural human instinct and all.

 Quote:
And realizing you've made a grave error in favor of feels isn't?


Not everyone was a mistake, sin.

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#113232 - 06/16/17 10:16 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: CCB]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
I didn't say they were. What I'm saying is, even when you are aware that you have limited resources (and limited ability to attain them) people still have kids they can't take care of. This is why neglect and abuse is so rampant the world over. It's not just a financial burden, it can be an emotional one also.

One can desire to become a doctor one day then in a moment of weakness, that entire plan is wrenched by a failure to plan.

Planned Parenthood is an agency (among others) that seeks to provide access to things like birth control and management of StdS. The hope was that if you help people plan their families (if they want one at all) then people may be more inclined to wait until they are able.

For those people that lack a desire to breed, doesn't mean it won't occur by error. The decision to keep or abort is an after thought. Wouldn't be an issue if that mistake wasn't made in the first place eh?
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#113233 - 06/16/17 04:48 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
I'd say it's more of a challenge *not* to breed than breed. Breeding is easy, you don't have to do shit but throw caution to the wind at the right time.


Breeding is indeed easy but raising kids is not such a small challenge. Not having kids is actually an easier road. You have more freedom and less obligations. Life is also less costly if you live alone. Children are quite a financial and emotional burden so no wonder that many people fail to meet the challenge. It all comes down to knowing your limits but also your preferences. Some people can't afford having children, others simply don't want them.

I don't think choosing not to have kids is a challenge, I even daresay that in your late 30s sexual abstinence isn't an issue. A sexual instinct is strongest between 17 and 30. It's the time when most people end up setting up families. When you're over 30, it gets weaker as years pass by. It's as if nature gave you up, which is only convenient. Bleh.


Edited by Czereda (06/16/17 04:51 PM)
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#113239 - 06/16/17 08:16 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: SIN
Wouldn't be an issue if that mistake wasn't made in the first place eh?


True, but as you said, you can plan and sometimes things get fucked anyway. Its a matter of learning and application, but as you say, people are set in their ways. Honestly, I don't know if better sex ed would change that or not. It certainly could be implied better here in the U.S.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I don't think choosing not to have kids is a challenge, I even daresay that in your late 30s sexual abstinence isn't an issue.


I have to disagree. I don't know exactly, but a lot of men maybe have a hard time pulling out, and or women lie about using the pill. In either case, humans have a powerful sex drive. I don't know about women, but in men the drive is impossible to ignore in your twenties. If you can get it, you take it. I've always been cautious. When I was younger in college I had encounters with women who cheated, or were attempting to. I don't like STDs so I broke up with them because they also lied about taking the pill to.

*I didn't hate them or get mad at them for doing it, in fact I just saw them as young women who lacked logic over sex drive. Creatures who are engaging in an instinctual mate selection process. This is common in young men to. I just realized I couldn't trust a lot of women, because they were all doing the same thing.

I got out clean, and I think it is because I thought with my brain instead of my dick. But a lot of guys think once they've scored some they have to keep it, or starve again. I don't see it that way. I certainly won't settle for anything less than a healthy woman.

I wouldn't say nature gives up on you, its just another phase. You get through it, you get time to focus on other pleasures. A lot of young adults think if they don't have a partner, they are losing out. Its the sex drive. Mine isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but it is nice not to have a hard on 24/7. Most men won't admit it but it does get annoying. Now in my 30s, I'm glad who I am, what I do. I still enjoy women but its not the center of everything for me.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (06/16/17 08:24 PM)
Edit Reason: *
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#113247 - 06/19/17 10:47 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
I don't know if better sex ed would change that or not. It certainly could be implied better here in the U.S.


Having an education doesn't make people smarter. You can be the most educated and still act ignorant. Sex Ed was part of the curriculum in my education career, doesn't mean a certain sort won't ignore it wholesale. Including but not limited to contracting STDs and the 'accidental pregnancy'. This was during the peak AIDS scare mind you. A dozen or more classmates are dead.

So I'd say, No - it doesn't improve decision making. It's so much easier to throw caution to the wind. People risk their lives with such ease, you wonder what incentive could be offered to change it.
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#113262 - 06/20/17 03:07 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
It is often the case. People seldom change until a new experience presents reason to. Here is an article that links to a PBS report on some key notes. Better yet is this PDF showing the differences.

I agree, one can read of the world and know nothing. It has been mentioned in other topics, the difference between watching Kung Fu and doing it. Here the same applies. I believe it likely has more to do with culture than classroom, though I am sure the later has its effect.

In my experience, abstinence is just another tool to indulge self-preservation, but only gets you so much out of life. Often, the only way to is through.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (06/20/17 03:41 AM)
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#113282 - 06/22/17 03:33 PM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: SIN3]
CCB Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 14
Loc: United States
 Quote:
What I'm saying is, even when you are aware that you have limited resources (and limited ability to attain them) people still have kids they can't take care of. This is why neglect and abuse is so rampant the world over. It's not just a financial burden, it can be an emotional one also.


Doesn't show that having kids was an easier choice, just that you can make the choice in a less materially burdensome way than some people do, I.e by not taking care of your offspring. Not that this is overall an easier choice for everyone to make. For some it may be incredibly distressing given their emotional or moral attitudes.

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#113292 - 06/23/17 11:57 AM Re: Varg Vikernes on MGTOW and Feminism. [Re: CCB]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
I think conscious abandon removes the element of choice. At least in part. If you show a blatant disregard for contraception, the easy part is done. What people grapple with, is what to do next. Keep it, abort it, or adopt it out.
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