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#111631 - 03/06/17 10:32 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
Resting your laurels on genetics proposes that you can not surpass or exceed perceived limitations.

You'd probably be really surprised by the environment I was forged in but especially in my outcome.


If you're trying to razor back what your true nature is, I'd say you probably have a good idea at this point. You've already set limitations for yourself:

 Quote:
I still have a couple years before moving out. By then I'll be able to indulge in carnal pleasures every once in a while; however, surviving in independence will take priority.


Why later rather than sooner? Planning in action, or are you gun shy?
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#111644 - 03/07/17 10:34 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
Quid pro quo, I don't know about you but when I'm given something I like to return the favor; besides I still have a whole year to go before getting my degree.

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician

Social Darwinian themes don’t necessarily dominate the philosophical and political landscape in our western societies and exclude the power of every other type of discourse. If those themes did dominate exclusively then, how would any so-called mundane continue to proliferate and survive at all?

And honestly: how do you determine strength? I have met plenty of will-full people who have achieved little in the way of tangible success. Or did they?


Breeding like rabbits is hardly proof of strength, those who know what they want will live life on their own terms without worrying whether someone comes along or not.

In fact, the more of those "drones" the better for the ones who can make use of them.

As for the willful who haven't achieved much yet: Satan doesn't make it easy on anyone, or perhaps they haven't achieved much because they're still chained to their conscience.

Satan to me is Natural Order: Ruthless, uncaring and challenging. He (or she?) is embodied in all of us, since we are all someone's "other."

Genetics don't define us, our environment doesn't define us. Only Satan can reveal what we are truly made of.
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#111646 - 03/07/17 10:46 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same for my own kid but I have a tendency to not make things so easy. I don't think anyone does well in the world without a challenge.

Could you imagine being independent AND going to school to get a degree? What would that look like as an autonomous adult, will there always be a safety net (family) there for you?

Rhetorical: What would life look like if you had no one to use as an Emergency Contact?

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#111655 - 03/07/17 08:50 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

Could you imagine being independent AND going to school to get a degree? What would that look like as an autonomous adult, will there always be a safety net (family) there for you?


It'd be pretty hard I reckon, some of my classmates do that but the consequence is that either their studies or their work suffer for it, I can't afford to screw my studies as good qualifications allow me to keep the college grant.

The safety net is wearing out with every passing day, part of me is actually looking forward to it.
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#111673 - 03/08/17 06:13 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
In the poorer or still developing countries moving out is not that easy. The reason for that is usually either the shortage of apartments on the market or low incomes. If the incomes on average are low, then even if you have a regular job, you can't afford to buy an apartment. So then you have two options. You can get a loan, which you will have to pay back for 20 years or so and it will be taking a large portion of your income. You can also rent a house or flat and it will take more than a half of your income. Plus, the owner can kick you out if your one year contract is terminated. You can also rent a room instead of the whole apartment, which will be cheaper but you will have to share the kitchen and the bathroom with strangers, who can turn out to be cunts.

It's even worse in the case of students because they usually can't work full time so their incomes are lower.

I'm not saying it's impossible but it's hard and comes at the cost of working more than one full time job.

Of course, if you have a family, it would be rather pathological to live with your parents so you have to move out. However, if you are single, and especially if you're a student, moving out doesn't pay off.

As for the challenges, there is no need to make life more complicated than it already is. Not all the limitations can be overcome. People tend to overestimate their abilities, especially if the money is concerned. Some took loans in Swiss currency and, during the EU currency crisis lost their new bought homes. Many still have problems with paying back their loans. It's sometimes better to lower the bar if you can't jump that high.
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#111676 - 03/09/17 03:20 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
Dark Magician Offline
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Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 118
SARGEIST:

Breeding like rabbits is hardly proof of strength, those who know what they want will live life on their own terms without worrying whether someone comes along or not.

In fact, the more of those "drones" the better for the ones who can make use of them.

As for the willful who haven't achieved much yet: Satan doesn't make it easy on anyone, or perhaps they haven't achieved much because they're still chained to their conscience.

Satan to me is Natural Order: Ruthless, uncaring and challenging. He (or she?) is embodied in all of us, since we are all someone's "other."

Genetics don't define us, our environment doesn't define us. Only Satan can reveal what we are truly made of.


How are you able to draw a connection between my mention of strength and “breeding like rabbits?” That is quite ridiculous. I again ask: how do you define strength? And be careful because there are a lot of strong people out there who I bet don’t meet your vague conclusions.

The only ones who can make use of so called drones are those in positions of authority which exemplify and sustain the status quo, such as employers, financial institutions, insurers and government etc. No person who describes himself as a genuine Satanist can ever use such “drones.” To think a genuine Satanist can use such “drones” is ridiculous – I would like you to explain how the use of such drones is possible for a Satanist?

Okay, the so called “natural order” is not ruthless or uncaring – the most that can be said about “nature” is that it is indifferent. “Nature” could be regarded as challenging – but that is not a characteristic of “nature” a priori and may not even be the viewpoint of every particular “thing” found in some thing called “nature.”

“Nature” provides certain resources which lifeforms can use, provided they have the opportunity to access those resources and the tools needed for the job.

If “nature” was purely and exclusively ruthless and uncaring, then “nature” wouldn’t provide such resources and tools in the first place i.e. no life would be possible from the outset.

What one should say is that certain lifeforms may act “ruthlessly” or “uncaringly” from a certain perspective in their pursuit of the means to continue their existence. This is definitely not the same as claiming that “nature” is ruthless or uncaring.

There is no point in trying to anthropomorphise some thing called “nature.” I think you should start looking at Being.

Satan doesn’t necessarily and universally represent any thing such as “nature” or a ruthless, uncaring and challenging “nature.” This representation, like all representations is a culturally and personally driven desire to link a signifier and a signified together for whatever reason. This Satan = a ruthless and uncaring “nature” representation does not hold any great amount of currency in the world outside the Satanic community. Satanism remains a thing pre-dominantly produced by religion and Hollywood.

Satan doesn’t reveal any thing. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that Satan exists as an independent conscious entity, hence Satan has no personality, no autobiography, and no intention or will can be attributed to “it.” Satan is just a sign without an ultimate referent and is hence a political football.

This mundane cliché Satanism is a standard one here, but I think online career people and youngsters should be critically questioning this cliché Satanism. I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny at all.

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#111691 - 03/09/17 11:12 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
In the poorer or still developing countries moving out is not that easy.


As if it's easy elsewhere? Students in the U.S. also struggle financially while trying to attend school,work and still have some semblance of a social life but plenty do it and fair better than those in situations that are 'easier'. Only here, you have a higher chance of a wasted degree because it's 'easier' to take an entry-level job and work your way up to a decent salary than it is to pursue the field you hold a degree in.

 Quote:
It's sometimes better to lower the bar if you can't jump that high.


Better than what in the bigger picture?
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#111692 - 03/09/17 03:40 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Dark Magician]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician

How are you able to draw a connection between my mention of strength and “breeding like rabbits?” That is quite ridiculous. I again ask: how do you define strength? And be careful because there are a lot of strong people out there who I bet don’t meet your vague conclusions.


I define strength as resilience, the ability to learn from suffering. Pathei-mathos in short.

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician

The only ones who can make use of so called drones are those in positions of authority which exemplify and sustain the status quo, such as employers, financial institutions, insurers and government etc. No person who describes himself as a genuine Satanist can ever use such “drones.” To think a genuine Satanist can use such “drones” is ridiculous – I would like you to explain how the use of such drones is possible for a Satanist?


Are you sure about that? Have you never taken advantage of someone's disposition to get something you wanted? Drones to me aren't only those who belong to the proletariat but also those whose nature makes them more propense to manipulation.
------------------------------

You speak about Nature as if you know it well, but didn't you say that's in itself "un-verifiable and in-describable"? If we can't be certain of what Nature is, how can we be certain of what it isn't?

I look around and all I see is proof of Satan, yet most delude themselves into thinking they're good, law-abiding citizens (some even go to church on Sundays!) Indeed there's also love and caring, but seldomly we see this love extended to those outside our social circles. We are always looking for the "other" yet many fail to stand up to it, resorting to intellectual and emotional masturbation so they can feel happy for five seconds before they return to their usual miserable state.

I've never experienced Satan in dreams, hallucinations or such. Is that really necessary? I think not. As the latin saying goes: "Si monumentum requiris, circumspice" (if you seek His monument, look around you)





Edited by Sargeist (03/09/17 03:41 PM)
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#111693 - 03/09/17 06:38 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Dark Magician]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1159
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
To think a genuine Satanist can use such “drones” is ridiculous – I would like you to explain how the use of such drones is possible for a Satanist?


While it's not Satanism per se, I once read a memoir by a leading proponent for remote viewing, Russel Targ. In his book he described how the CIA would use (mundane) superstition to test prospective agents for espionage.

He described how they were looking for "different" wiring. People with that inborn defiance that lends to a resistance to pressure and coercion. This amounted to puppeting a true believer and the otherwise clueless followers that buy into bullshit.

In effect it was: Get a group of idiots to think they're both saving someone from "evil"  (accompany this with something they did), and serving "God and Country".

Through a process of gossip and flat out denial to the differently wired person erratic behavior would follow. This of course fed the superstition they were using. While all the while subtly portraying to that differently wired person that all they have to do to stop it is give in and join their cause.

Russel Targ got so fed up with people playing this that he threatened to bring a gun to work and kill everyone there. Par for the course.

The point being: If you give in to the "them", you lose. You are considered a risk and not worthy of the security clearance. Despite the opposite being portrayed to everyone else.

 The irony here being that "big brother" is using a nomian mindset to find people with defiant personalities - which to them exemplifies integrity. What's foul is fair.

It was a real interesting book.

Do You See What I See: Memoires of a Blind Biker By, Russel Targ.

Of course this made its rounds on conspiracy shows, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
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#111697 - 03/09/17 10:22 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
As if it's easy elsewhere? Students in the U.S. also struggle financially...


I'm not saying it's easy in the US either. I'm simply opposed to doing something because such is the custom. Move out when and if it's convenient and beneficial to you and not because this is something you are supposed to do or because most people do it.

 Quote:
Better than what in the bigger picture?


Than fucking things up. Let's say, a considerable group of people take loans in Swiss currency. In the course of time, the Polish currency gets weaker and their payments double. Many of them are no longer able to pay the debt so they start petitioning the parliament to fix it and punish the banks for deceiving them. As if they didn't know about exchange rates fluctuations. Childish really.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
I look around and all I see is proof of Satan


Oh please, I look around and all I see is proof of a pink flamingo. Nature simply IS. People think some elements of it are "bad" hence Satan appears as a mere by-product of human reasoning. All the talk about Satan comes in handy when people are desperately trying to make sense of the perplexing reality that surrounds them. "My dad died of cancer. How could good and loving God let that happen?" Or "Some guy raped and murdered a child. Why is there so much evil in the world?"
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#111700 - 03/10/17 10:26 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 751
Loc: Oregon
I think the devil tempts you in your mind, say, to do the drugs. You become your own devil when you refuse. Not for morality's sake, but for your own.

Fire with fire.
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#112047 - 03/28/17 05:43 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
After weeks of pondering and ruminating, taking into consideration what was written here, I will write down my conclusions regarding what Satan and Satanism are.

Scientists are still unable to determine what caused the Big Bang. I, on the other hand, observe reality and this gives me an idea on "who" created the observable universe. The creator is Satan.

At first he was asleep, somewhat aware of his existence. Then one day, in a feat of infinite might he provoked the reaction that transformed his being into the ever expanding universe.

Satan is might and order, otherwise we wouldn't have galaxies nor planets orbiting bigger stars.

We like to think we are "free" and that we make our own choices, but the reality is that we are only free to do that which is in our very own nature. Which is why the alcoholic can't stop drinking and even when he does, normally after some AA sessions, he's still enslaved by alcohol (only this time he's enslaved to the abstinence of it). This is also why so many people rely on others to tell them what to do, they're merely the raw material with which others sustain themselves.

The universe is at constant tension, even the most feeble blade of grass can make its way through dirt.

We are all someone's Satan, through this constant defiance our nature is uncovered.

The path is neither right nor left, but both.

I call him Satan since that's the name of the adversary. The universe is made of adversarial relationships. There is order because there is tension.

Capitalism is the expression of Satan, of things as they are. This is the reason it has prevailed over other delusions.

So, what is Satanism then? That which opens the path for a select few who uncover their true selves and are comfortable with it. Those who do not need society to dictate how to think and act, yet are still capable of pulling some of their strings to get that which they desire. They're the mad, the loners, the outcasts, the ones beyond good and evil. The ones with no self, the ones with the shifting faces. Achieving the divine through the carnal. That is the nature of a Satanist.
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#112050 - 03/28/17 07:53 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1159
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
The creator is Satan.


What created Satan to create the universe then?

That type of theism is a hard sell built in epistemological frailty.

 Quote:
At first he was asleep, somewhat aware of his existence. Then one day, in a feat of infinite might he provoked the reaction that transformed his being into the ever expanding universe.


This is along the lines of the criticism I have with people when they get on with their "dark force"/"source of power" bullshit, and then delude themselves into thinking it's some "hidden" knowledge.

Fucking occultniks.

Maybe it's only an aberration of form and flow. In my opinion you have it reversed. I get people need to see imprints of essence, but to say "the way it is" is taken from "a source" is the same flawed logic only with a nonduel mascot.

The "way it is" is what gives an illusion of "the source". That the universe functions in a hostile and adversarial way is more telling of a lack of form and purpose. 

A complex system that finds its form through chaos.
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#112051 - 03/28/17 08:54 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: CanisMachina42]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
Satan wasn't an external force which created the universe, Satan was that which eventually became our universe.

I used to think the universe was nothing but chaos too. However some scientists argue that entropy, the main driving force of the universe, isn't actually a measure of disorder, but merely the diversity of internal movement in a system. This article goes deeper into the matter. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "order" as this and "disorder" are merely human concepts.

It is undeniable, as you say, that astronomical objects and living organisms arranged themselves into complex systems. It's like a sack of sand exploding into a surface and the sand, rather than spreading homogenously, organizes itself into several sand castles. But don't you think this is a bit... peculiar? Yet I don't think chaos had anything to do with it. Just energy flowing from one system to another, in a constant state of conflict.



Edited by Sargeist (03/28/17 09:03 PM)
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#112053 - 03/28/17 10:51 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1159
Loc: San Diego, CA
Finding form through chaos is a way to denote self-regulation.

 Quote:
entropy, the main driving force of the universe, isn't actually a measure of disorder, but merely the diversity of internal movement in a system


 It's balance to me. Its cancelling itself out as we speak...through an entirely random chaotic process. The universe wants to not exist like your food wants to become room temperature.

 Quote:
It is undeniable, as you say, that astronomical objects and living organisms arranged themselves into complex systems. It's like a sack of sand exploding into a surface and the sand, rather than spreading homogenously, organizes itself into several sand castles.


Don't let the fundamental forces that yield a "the path of least resistance" (for the reasons mentioned) give you an impression of omnipresent consciousness and will.

That's like an argument that a fractal is an image of "god", because "what put that design a representation of?"

As you said, they is no way to know what happened in the beginning. Take your pick.

The early universe has no design. It had heat and motion. It had "plasma" excited to such a degree that nothing could form, not even atomic structure. Matter as we know it was nonexistent.

Then came mass... which formed a bit after the big bang as the energy began dissipating.

The form we see is "self organizing".

What can't be explained with gravity must not apply.

 Quote:

But don't you think this is a bit... peculiar? Yet I don't think chaos had anything to do with it. Just energy flowing from one system to another, in a constant state of conflict.


What's in a state of conflict is trying to fit chaos into a standard model.

The form you see are the numbers that come up. The dynamic system in which these forms exist are like "statistical probability".  Even the chaotic scattering of its matter will inevitably have a median value to our perspective. That's as solipsistic as I care to get.

I like a roullete wheel analogy.

3, 11, 34, 22, 22, 8, 15, 3, 28...

There is a peculiar way in which there are peaks and valleys that always seem to balance out.  If there is a ubiquitous universal "form" everything follows: it's to cancel out its own impact to either side of a self generated "center".

Call me blind, but I don't need that process to be an emanation or imprint of anything.
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