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#111507 - 02/25/17 11:30 AM What Satan is to me (an interpretation).
Sargeist Offline
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It is indeed the Devil that makes the alcoholic reach for another glass of whisky.

It is indeed the Devil who pushes the heroin-filled syringe into the junky's vein.

It is indeed the Devil who makes the sjw fight for human rights so they can be taken care of by the nanny state.

These are just some examples of the ways Satan deals with those whose existence is worthless, the mundane.

Why does he do this? Because might is right, and as there are a strong and weak cosmic elements, strong humans impose their will on the weak. As above, so below.

Nature is an expression of the satanic, we like to pretend we are above nature; yet the further we try to get away from it the less control we have on the beast within.

-------------------

So that's what I got so far. Thoughts? Are there any incoherences?


Edited by Sargeist (02/25/17 11:32 AM)
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#111509 - 02/25/17 12:08 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Interesting. Reading the first few lines, I was thinking "Oh Goat, he's making some kind of a Holier then thou post about the evils of Satanism, but reading to the end, I see your point, that hasn't occurred to me quite the way you put it. Something to seriously think about as I sit here using the crutch of a cigarette.
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#111516 - 02/26/17 12:20 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Asmedious]
yawweez Offline
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Registered: 06/04/15
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Satanism is a act and is in every humans,it show when one decide to demonstrate it.
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#111517 - 02/26/17 07:02 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Asmedious]
Sargeist Offline
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The last part I came up with as I was writing this, but the idea represented on the first three sentences manifested itself in September on a trip to the coast. I didn't post it at the time since I felt it was incomplete and posting half-baked ideas wouldn't do justice to this place.
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#111543 - 03/01/17 10:00 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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 Originally Posted By: Sarge
the less control we have on the beast within.


And that beast requires exercise, not an exorcism.

You could spend your days treating your body like a holy temple, get hit by a car and die tomorrow; having not lived a day of it.

It is indeed the Devil that takes the drink, and does the heroine and takes a piss on SJW's wearing the Devil's mask.
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#111550 - 03/01/17 07:40 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
Nature is an expression of the satanic, we like to pretend we are above nature; yet the further we try to get away from it the less control we have on the beast within.


This only hits on the first phase, destruction.

Here's my problem with that; it blurs the line between excuse and cause. The latter becomes the former and detracts from the cycle. 

Pointing to an intangible thing is no different then the alcoholic that reaches for that glass and calls it a disease they can't control.

It is a combined effect of behavior, how that behavior is viewed, and how it unconsciously shapes decisions.

Will to power vs. self fulfilling prophecy.

 Quote:
Why does he do this?


Thou shalt not anthropomorphise Satan.

Satan is a forest fire. The generator of death and life, in that order. If you can't put down the glass,  socialize with strangers, or make the world a PC utopia, then the fire has consumed you. It's transitive ass won.

Only strength and exposure to the flame will let you see the new growth after the blaze... if you make it that far.
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#111580 - 03/03/17 10:44 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3

And that beast requires exercise, not an exorcism.


I've tried different approaches: Beast unleashed, beast on a leash and beast on a cage. Guess which one worked out best.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42


This only hits on the first phase, destruction.

Here's my problem with that; it blurs the line between excuse and cause. The latter becomes the former and detracts from the cycle. 

Pointing to an intangible thing is no different then the alcoholic that reaches for that glass and calls it a disease they can't control.

It is a combined effect of behavior, how that behavior is viewed, and how it unconsciously shapes decisions.

Will to power vs. self fulfilling prophecy.


We all know the story: Mommy drinks a bit too much during pregnancy and the baby grows up to be a hopeless alcoholic. But is everyone affected the same by their environment? What about rich kids who have everything they want and nonetheless become useless junkies? What operated there?

There are three kinds of people in this world: Those who are a waste of flesh, those who are basically drones ready to be used and those who do the using. I speak of Satan because life itself is cruel and I can see His hand guiding these three kind of people into their roles in life. There are those who think there's a "divine" order to which we all must submit yet the empirical evidence shows that only those who dare get what they want.

Satan burns us all, eventually revealing what's underneath the layers of self-deceit.
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#111586 - 03/03/17 11:20 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Sarge
I've tried different approaches: Beast unleashed, beast on a leash and beast on a cage. Guess which one worked out best.


While living with your family, right? What do you imagine complete liberation to be like? There's a difference between managing impulses and compulsions .

 Quote:
Mommy drinks a bit too much during pregnancy and the baby grows up to be a hopeless alcoholic.


^ This as an example. Did you think that out before typing it?
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#111595 - 03/03/17 05:04 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3

While living with your family, right? What do you imagine complete liberation to be like? There's a difference between managing impulses and compulsions


I figure I still have a couple years before moving out. By then I'll be able to indulge in carnal pleasures every once in a while; however, surviving in independence will take priority.

I won't pretend to be someone in full control of his impulses and compulsions, all I can tell is that so far they haven't interferred with my academic goals.

The example about alcohol was a poor one, I could swear I read or heard something related to that a long time ago. The point I was making is that there's only so much effect the environment has on one. You can be a rich kid who takes everything for granted and not work a single day of your life or a poor kid who manages to aqcuire wealth through wit and hard work.

Can genetics really tell one's true nature? If not, then what does?


Edited by Sargeist (03/03/17 05:05 PM)
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#111600 - 03/03/17 09:02 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
fiendish Offline
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Complete liberation is my mission. If you come to think of it, here is the devil, doing exactly what you fucking want. Carnal pleasures, safety measures, it has mainly to do with ones wish. It has mainly got to do with what you are.
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#111602 - 03/03/17 10:25 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
Mommy drinks a bit too much during pregnancy and the baby grows up to be a hopeless alcoholic. But is everyone affected the same by their environment? What about rich kids who have everything they want and nonetheless become useless junkies? What operated there?


Entitlment. Vanity. Diet. In my hometown the most heroin addicted high school was the rich kid school. Daddy bought them a BMW, but heroin made them skinny and sexy... They weren't addicts though, they were "recreational users".  One might point to the upper class environment and denial/obliviousness among the parents as the shelter against the "problems of the poor".

 Quote:

Satan burns us all, eventually revealing what's underneath the layers of self-deceit.


We are actually somewhat in agreement here. Though I like to call it "life". The masks that get ripped off by adversity are usually a product of denial/rationalization. Persona vs. Shadow. It's a mechanism of both separation and convergence.

The cartoon trope of the cobblestone path vs. The creepy woods comes to mind.
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#111605 - 03/04/17 02:32 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
Dark Magician Offline
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Metaphysical confusion undermines the clarity required here: how can “Satan” compel anyone to do anything?

How can we pretend to be above some-thing called “nature” – this thing called nature has never existed for human beings in a truly pure way: it has only ever been perceived and examined through the lens of some other thing called “culture.”

A pure nature is “in-itself” un-verifiable and in-describable.

Social Darwinian themes don’t necessarily dominate the philosophical and political landscape in our western societies and exclude the power of every other type of discourse. If those themes did dominate exclusively then, how would any so-called mundane continue to proliferate and survive at all?

And honestly: how do you determine strength? I have met plenty of will-full people who have achieved little in the way of tangible success. Or did they?

This beast within is so constructed and saturated by language/culture – how on earth could you ever discern its true “nature?” How can you read it through your actions?

I like to fuck, but I am a most particular fetishist – does this make sense?

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#111611 - 03/04/17 03:20 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Dark Magician]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
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My personal understanding of "social darwinism" within my own interpretation of Satanism is that it is about who I feel benefits me and deserves my help, and as a motivator for being responsible for my own actions, because if I don't then nature will select against me.

I'm largely apathetic about what that means for other people, and I think that's the problem with externalizing Satan to some external motivating for other people.

Watching how other people don't make it is a convenient and justifying method for ignoring ones own shortcomings, which to me would amount to an odd "satanic" version of the self righteous trap that allows many Christians to not take responsibility for themselves by self-righteously pointing at the "other."

In my own reality my only concern is how the archetype is a motivating force for me, not others. If the world is indifferent to whether I live or die, then the onus is on me whether that indifference helps or hinders me.


Edited by samowens84 (03/04/17 03:20 PM)

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#111612 - 03/04/17 03:30 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: samowens84]
Oxus Offline
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I've posted this before, but why not get a few chortles out of everyone?

Who the Hell is Satan?

Here's my understanding of this "Old Enemy" as the literary scholar Neil Forsyth coined and what I consider to be the foundation of what is called Satanism.

Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche . . . a meme, or what some may now call a "Godform", I think the Magus of Chaos, Peter Carroll uses that term?

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is a social and cultural phenomenon as old as the mind of humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them" or "Me" and "the rest of you" . . . etc.

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", which excluded all who were not Egyptian to be relegated to 'non-human', the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi" (barbarians). The Jewish Essenes called anyone not an Essene "ha satan" (the adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).

So, who/what is this Satan? He simply is who you are not!

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#111613 - 03/04/17 04:57 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Oxus]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 87
This topic reminds me of Scarface. "You people are fucking asshole man. You know why? Cause you don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me...so you can point your fucking fingers, and say 'that's the bad guy.' So? What that make you? Good? You're not good. You know how to hide, how to lie."

Fun, fun. lol

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#111631 - 03/06/17 10:32 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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Resting your laurels on genetics proposes that you can not surpass or exceed perceived limitations.

You'd probably be really surprised by the environment I was forged in but especially in my outcome.


If you're trying to razor back what your true nature is, I'd say you probably have a good idea at this point. You've already set limitations for yourself:

 Quote:
I still have a couple years before moving out. By then I'll be able to indulge in carnal pleasures every once in a while; however, surviving in independence will take priority.


Why later rather than sooner? Planning in action, or are you gun shy?
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#111644 - 03/07/17 10:34 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
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Quid pro quo, I don't know about you but when I'm given something I like to return the favor; besides I still have a whole year to go before getting my degree.

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician

Social Darwinian themes don’t necessarily dominate the philosophical and political landscape in our western societies and exclude the power of every other type of discourse. If those themes did dominate exclusively then, how would any so-called mundane continue to proliferate and survive at all?

And honestly: how do you determine strength? I have met plenty of will-full people who have achieved little in the way of tangible success. Or did they?


Breeding like rabbits is hardly proof of strength, those who know what they want will live life on their own terms without worrying whether someone comes along or not.

In fact, the more of those "drones" the better for the ones who can make use of them.

As for the willful who haven't achieved much yet: Satan doesn't make it easy on anyone, or perhaps they haven't achieved much because they're still chained to their conscience.

Satan to me is Natural Order: Ruthless, uncaring and challenging. He (or she?) is embodied in all of us, since we are all someone's "other."

Genetics don't define us, our environment doesn't define us. Only Satan can reveal what we are truly made of.
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#111646 - 03/07/17 10:46 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same for my own kid but I have a tendency to not make things so easy. I don't think anyone does well in the world without a challenge.

Could you imagine being independent AND going to school to get a degree? What would that look like as an autonomous adult, will there always be a safety net (family) there for you?

Rhetorical: What would life look like if you had no one to use as an Emergency Contact?

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#111655 - 03/07/17 08:50 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Sargeist Offline
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Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

Could you imagine being independent AND going to school to get a degree? What would that look like as an autonomous adult, will there always be a safety net (family) there for you?


It'd be pretty hard I reckon, some of my classmates do that but the consequence is that either their studies or their work suffer for it, I can't afford to screw my studies as good qualifications allow me to keep the college grant.

The safety net is wearing out with every passing day, part of me is actually looking forward to it.
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#111673 - 03/08/17 06:13 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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In the poorer or still developing countries moving out is not that easy. The reason for that is usually either the shortage of apartments on the market or low incomes. If the incomes on average are low, then even if you have a regular job, you can't afford to buy an apartment. So then you have two options. You can get a loan, which you will have to pay back for 20 years or so and it will be taking a large portion of your income. You can also rent a house or flat and it will take more than a half of your income. Plus, the owner can kick you out if your one year contract is terminated. You can also rent a room instead of the whole apartment, which will be cheaper but you will have to share the kitchen and the bathroom with strangers, who can turn out to be cunts.

It's even worse in the case of students because they usually can't work full time so their incomes are lower.

I'm not saying it's impossible but it's hard and comes at the cost of working more than one full time job.

Of course, if you have a family, it would be rather pathological to live with your parents so you have to move out. However, if you are single, and especially if you're a student, moving out doesn't pay off.

As for the challenges, there is no need to make life more complicated than it already is. Not all the limitations can be overcome. People tend to overestimate their abilities, especially if the money is concerned. Some took loans in Swiss currency and, during the EU currency crisis lost their new bought homes. Many still have problems with paying back their loans. It's sometimes better to lower the bar if you can't jump that high.
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#111676 - 03/09/17 03:20 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
Dark Magician Offline
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Registered: 04/24/14
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SARGEIST:

Breeding like rabbits is hardly proof of strength, those who know what they want will live life on their own terms without worrying whether someone comes along or not.

In fact, the more of those "drones" the better for the ones who can make use of them.

As for the willful who haven't achieved much yet: Satan doesn't make it easy on anyone, or perhaps they haven't achieved much because they're still chained to their conscience.

Satan to me is Natural Order: Ruthless, uncaring and challenging. He (or she?) is embodied in all of us, since we are all someone's "other."

Genetics don't define us, our environment doesn't define us. Only Satan can reveal what we are truly made of.


How are you able to draw a connection between my mention of strength and “breeding like rabbits?” That is quite ridiculous. I again ask: how do you define strength? And be careful because there are a lot of strong people out there who I bet don’t meet your vague conclusions.

The only ones who can make use of so called drones are those in positions of authority which exemplify and sustain the status quo, such as employers, financial institutions, insurers and government etc. No person who describes himself as a genuine Satanist can ever use such “drones.” To think a genuine Satanist can use such “drones” is ridiculous – I would like you to explain how the use of such drones is possible for a Satanist?

Okay, the so called “natural order” is not ruthless or uncaring – the most that can be said about “nature” is that it is indifferent. “Nature” could be regarded as challenging – but that is not a characteristic of “nature” a priori and may not even be the viewpoint of every particular “thing” found in some thing called “nature.”

“Nature” provides certain resources which lifeforms can use, provided they have the opportunity to access those resources and the tools needed for the job.

If “nature” was purely and exclusively ruthless and uncaring, then “nature” wouldn’t provide such resources and tools in the first place i.e. no life would be possible from the outset.

What one should say is that certain lifeforms may act “ruthlessly” or “uncaringly” from a certain perspective in their pursuit of the means to continue their existence. This is definitely not the same as claiming that “nature” is ruthless or uncaring.

There is no point in trying to anthropomorphise some thing called “nature.” I think you should start looking at Being.

Satan doesn’t necessarily and universally represent any thing such as “nature” or a ruthless, uncaring and challenging “nature.” This representation, like all representations is a culturally and personally driven desire to link a signifier and a signified together for whatever reason. This Satan = a ruthless and uncaring “nature” representation does not hold any great amount of currency in the world outside the Satanic community. Satanism remains a thing pre-dominantly produced by religion and Hollywood.

Satan doesn’t reveal any thing. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that Satan exists as an independent conscious entity, hence Satan has no personality, no autobiography, and no intention or will can be attributed to “it.” Satan is just a sign without an ultimate referent and is hence a political football.

This mundane cliché Satanism is a standard one here, but I think online career people and youngsters should be critically questioning this cliché Satanism. I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny at all.

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#111691 - 03/09/17 11:12 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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 Quote:
In the poorer or still developing countries moving out is not that easy.


As if it's easy elsewhere? Students in the U.S. also struggle financially while trying to attend school,work and still have some semblance of a social life but plenty do it and fair better than those in situations that are 'easier'. Only here, you have a higher chance of a wasted degree because it's 'easier' to take an entry-level job and work your way up to a decent salary than it is to pursue the field you hold a degree in.

 Quote:
It's sometimes better to lower the bar if you can't jump that high.


Better than what in the bigger picture?
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#111692 - 03/09/17 03:40 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Dark Magician]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician

How are you able to draw a connection between my mention of strength and “breeding like rabbits?” That is quite ridiculous. I again ask: how do you define strength? And be careful because there are a lot of strong people out there who I bet don’t meet your vague conclusions.


I define strength as resilience, the ability to learn from suffering. Pathei-mathos in short.

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician

The only ones who can make use of so called drones are those in positions of authority which exemplify and sustain the status quo, such as employers, financial institutions, insurers and government etc. No person who describes himself as a genuine Satanist can ever use such “drones.” To think a genuine Satanist can use such “drones” is ridiculous – I would like you to explain how the use of such drones is possible for a Satanist?


Are you sure about that? Have you never taken advantage of someone's disposition to get something you wanted? Drones to me aren't only those who belong to the proletariat but also those whose nature makes them more propense to manipulation.
------------------------------

You speak about Nature as if you know it well, but didn't you say that's in itself "un-verifiable and in-describable"? If we can't be certain of what Nature is, how can we be certain of what it isn't?

I look around and all I see is proof of Satan, yet most delude themselves into thinking they're good, law-abiding citizens (some even go to church on Sundays!) Indeed there's also love and caring, but seldomly we see this love extended to those outside our social circles. We are always looking for the "other" yet many fail to stand up to it, resorting to intellectual and emotional masturbation so they can feel happy for five seconds before they return to their usual miserable state.

I've never experienced Satan in dreams, hallucinations or such. Is that really necessary? I think not. As the latin saying goes: "Si monumentum requiris, circumspice" (if you seek His monument, look around you)





Edited by Sargeist (03/09/17 03:41 PM)
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#111693 - 03/09/17 06:38 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Dark Magician]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
To think a genuine Satanist can use such “drones” is ridiculous – I would like you to explain how the use of such drones is possible for a Satanist?


While it's not Satanism per se, I once read a memoir by a leading proponent for remote viewing, Russel Targ. In his book he described how the CIA would use (mundane) superstition to test prospective agents for espionage.

He described how they were looking for "different" wiring. People with that inborn defiance that lends to a resistance to pressure and coercion. This amounted to puppeting a true believer and the otherwise clueless followers that buy into bullshit.

In effect it was: Get a group of idiots to think they're both saving someone from "evil"  (accompany this with something they did), and serving "God and Country".

Through a process of gossip and flat out denial to the differently wired person erratic behavior would follow. This of course fed the superstition they were using. While all the while subtly portraying to that differently wired person that all they have to do to stop it is give in and join their cause.

Russel Targ got so fed up with people playing this that he threatened to bring a gun to work and kill everyone there. Par for the course.

The point being: If you give in to the "them", you lose. You are considered a risk and not worthy of the security clearance. Despite the opposite being portrayed to everyone else.

 The irony here being that "big brother" is using a nomian mindset to find people with defiant personalities - which to them exemplifies integrity. What's foul is fair.

It was a real interesting book.

Do You See What I See: Memoires of a Blind Biker By, Russel Targ.

Of course this made its rounds on conspiracy shows, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
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#111697 - 03/09/17 10:22 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1849
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
As if it's easy elsewhere? Students in the U.S. also struggle financially...


I'm not saying it's easy in the US either. I'm simply opposed to doing something because such is the custom. Move out when and if it's convenient and beneficial to you and not because this is something you are supposed to do or because most people do it.

 Quote:
Better than what in the bigger picture?


Than fucking things up. Let's say, a considerable group of people take loans in Swiss currency. In the course of time, the Polish currency gets weaker and their payments double. Many of them are no longer able to pay the debt so they start petitioning the parliament to fix it and punish the banks for deceiving them. As if they didn't know about exchange rates fluctuations. Childish really.

 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
I look around and all I see is proof of Satan


Oh please, I look around and all I see is proof of a pink flamingo. Nature simply IS. People think some elements of it are "bad" hence Satan appears as a mere by-product of human reasoning. All the talk about Satan comes in handy when people are desperately trying to make sense of the perplexing reality that surrounds them. "My dad died of cancer. How could good and loving God let that happen?" Or "Some guy raped and murdered a child. Why is there so much evil in the world?"
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#111700 - 03/10/17 10:26 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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I think the devil tempts you in your mind, say, to do the drugs. You become your own devil when you refuse. Not for morality's sake, but for your own.

Fire with fire.
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#112047 - 03/28/17 05:43 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
After weeks of pondering and ruminating, taking into consideration what was written here, I will write down my conclusions regarding what Satan and Satanism are.

Scientists are still unable to determine what caused the Big Bang. I, on the other hand, observe reality and this gives me an idea on "who" created the observable universe. The creator is Satan.

At first he was asleep, somewhat aware of his existence. Then one day, in a feat of infinite might he provoked the reaction that transformed his being into the ever expanding universe.

Satan is might and order, otherwise we wouldn't have galaxies nor planets orbiting bigger stars.

We like to think we are "free" and that we make our own choices, but the reality is that we are only free to do that which is in our very own nature. Which is why the alcoholic can't stop drinking and even when he does, normally after some AA sessions, he's still enslaved by alcohol (only this time he's enslaved to the abstinence of it). This is also why so many people rely on others to tell them what to do, they're merely the raw material with which others sustain themselves.

The universe is at constant tension, even the most feeble blade of grass can make its way through dirt.

We are all someone's Satan, through this constant defiance our nature is uncovered.

The path is neither right nor left, but both.

I call him Satan since that's the name of the adversary. The universe is made of adversarial relationships. There is order because there is tension.

Capitalism is the expression of Satan, of things as they are. This is the reason it has prevailed over other delusions.

So, what is Satanism then? That which opens the path for a select few who uncover their true selves and are comfortable with it. Those who do not need society to dictate how to think and act, yet are still capable of pulling some of their strings to get that which they desire. They're the mad, the loners, the outcasts, the ones beyond good and evil. The ones with no self, the ones with the shifting faces. Achieving the divine through the carnal. That is the nature of a Satanist.
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#112050 - 03/28/17 07:53 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
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 Quote:
The creator is Satan.


What created Satan to create the universe then?

That type of theism is a hard sell built in epistemological frailty.

 Quote:
At first he was asleep, somewhat aware of his existence. Then one day, in a feat of infinite might he provoked the reaction that transformed his being into the ever expanding universe.


This is along the lines of the criticism I have with people when they get on with their "dark force"/"source of power" bullshit, and then delude themselves into thinking it's some "hidden" knowledge.

Fucking occultniks.

Maybe it's only an aberration of form and flow. In my opinion you have it reversed. I get people need to see imprints of essence, but to say "the way it is" is taken from "a source" is the same flawed logic only with a nonduel mascot.

The "way it is" is what gives an illusion of "the source". That the universe functions in a hostile and adversarial way is more telling of a lack of form and purpose. 

A complex system that finds its form through chaos.
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#112051 - 03/28/17 08:54 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: CanisMachina42]
Sargeist Offline
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Satan wasn't an external force which created the universe, Satan was that which eventually became our universe.

I used to think the universe was nothing but chaos too. However some scientists argue that entropy, the main driving force of the universe, isn't actually a measure of disorder, but merely the diversity of internal movement in a system. This article goes deeper into the matter. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "order" as this and "disorder" are merely human concepts.

It is undeniable, as you say, that astronomical objects and living organisms arranged themselves into complex systems. It's like a sack of sand exploding into a surface and the sand, rather than spreading homogenously, organizes itself into several sand castles. But don't you think this is a bit... peculiar? Yet I don't think chaos had anything to do with it. Just energy flowing from one system to another, in a constant state of conflict.



Edited by Sargeist (03/28/17 09:03 PM)
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#112053 - 03/28/17 10:51 PM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Finding form through chaos is a way to denote self-regulation.

 Quote:
entropy, the main driving force of the universe, isn't actually a measure of disorder, but merely the diversity of internal movement in a system


 It's balance to me. Its cancelling itself out as we speak...through an entirely random chaotic process. The universe wants to not exist like your food wants to become room temperature.

 Quote:
It is undeniable, as you say, that astronomical objects and living organisms arranged themselves into complex systems. It's like a sack of sand exploding into a surface and the sand, rather than spreading homogenously, organizes itself into several sand castles.


Don't let the fundamental forces that yield a "the path of least resistance" (for the reasons mentioned) give you an impression of omnipresent consciousness and will.

That's like an argument that a fractal is an image of "god", because "what put that design a representation of?"

As you said, they is no way to know what happened in the beginning. Take your pick.

The early universe has no design. It had heat and motion. It had "plasma" excited to such a degree that nothing could form, not even atomic structure. Matter as we know it was nonexistent.

Then came mass... which formed a bit after the big bang as the energy began dissipating.

The form we see is "self organizing".

What can't be explained with gravity must not apply.

 Quote:

But don't you think this is a bit... peculiar? Yet I don't think chaos had anything to do with it. Just energy flowing from one system to another, in a constant state of conflict.


What's in a state of conflict is trying to fit chaos into a standard model.

The form you see are the numbers that come up. The dynamic system in which these forms exist are like "statistical probability".  Even the chaotic scattering of its matter will inevitably have a median value to our perspective. That's as solipsistic as I care to get.

I like a roullete wheel analogy.

3, 11, 34, 22, 22, 8, 15, 3, 28...

There is a peculiar way in which there are peaks and valleys that always seem to balance out.  If there is a ubiquitous universal "form" everything follows: it's to cancel out its own impact to either side of a self generated "center".

Call me blind, but I don't need that process to be an emanation or imprint of anything.
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#112054 - 03/29/17 11:24 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
As if it's easy elsewhere? Students in the U.S. also struggle financially...


I'm not saying it's easy in the US either. I'm simply opposed to doing something because such is the custom. Move out when and if it's convenient and beneficial to you and not because this is something you are supposed to do or because most people do it.


I don't think it's as simple as that. Many families want their kids out and on their own because it releases them from the financial burden. How many years after reaching adulthood should families carry these 'kids'? That financial debt can last as long as it takes for them to pay it off. Many students even going into default, then find they can't get a leg-up in the economy because they are black-listed. It's less about social expectations than you think.

 Quote:


 Quote:
Better than what in the bigger picture?


Than fucking things up. Let's say, a considerable group of people take loans in Swiss currency. In the course of time, the Polish currency gets weaker and their payments double. Many of them are no longer able to pay the debt so they start petitioning the parliament to fix it and punish the banks for deceiving them. As if they didn't know about exchange rates fluctuations. Childish really.




There's also corruption. We have a fair bit of that here in the U.S., it can take many years to catch it, litigate it and offer reprieve to those scammed. Many people go into debt not having a full-grasp of flex interest rates and take into consideration lifestyle changes. I don't know that it's childish per se but all part of the learning curve. People learn pretty quick after to burn to read the fine print. It may even take them multiple burns to force them to read it before agreeing to the terms.
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#112055 - 03/29/17 06:27 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1849
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Many families want their kids out and on their own because it releases them from the financial burden.


It's not a financial burden if the kids support the parents financially and otherwise. I'm talking about mutual aid, not babysitting. Living together is simply cheaper though I agree it's not a good idea if you can't get along with your family.
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#112060 - 03/30/17 03:45 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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[Quick Reply]
This thing started great and ended up as a trainwreck.

It derailed as soon as it went back to the classic "what it is/ what it ain't".

The devil is a gentleman while Satanism has more to do with a persons "core". The thin line where the ego apologizes and justifies (primal?) urges and acts upon it.

The heroine needle entering the vein, the cigarette butt in the ashtray, the spilled beers, the men and women marching the streets,...
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#112063 - 03/30/17 09:37 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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This notion operates on the assumption that once a person has gone to college, received the degree that they are employed in their field of study. More often than not, college graduates have a hard time finding work and end up in menial wage-jobs. If they can't support themselves, or pay off their loans, how can they pitch in to support the household?

Maybe over there, it works a bit differently in terms of how expenses are divided among the adults. I've spoken to my fair share of people from Norway and they often complain about how high the cost of living is, that living together is their only option for survival and that burden remains for the parents.

Do you have any stats from Poland that could demonstrate its success rate?

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#112069 - 03/30/17 03:25 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1849
Loc: Poland
SIN, I don't have statistics and I don't know about its success rate. I know a few examples from my neighborhood and that's all. I'm not claiming it's always the matter of mutual aid because it all depends on individual cases. In Poland an average income is low but an average pension is also low so if a working child lives with a retired parent there is more money. Of course, on condition that the kid works and spends money in a reasonable manner.

If I understood you well, you wrote that some parents kick their kids out and then the kids get in debt. Perhaps, it's because they can't afford to buy or rent an apartment. And then the parents take the child back after they got into a debt spiral? I see no logic in it unless I misunderstood you.


Edited by Czereda (03/30/17 03:30 PM)
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#112071 - 03/30/17 03:59 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Not quite. I'm stating that young people don't always have that option. Even if they did, it's not always unanimously accepted in the household. Extending that security net, isn't always the best option because it just enables young people to count on it. What happens when they hit a situation and there isn't one there?
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#112073 - 03/30/17 05:07 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1849
Loc: Poland
But what happens if you're hit by a car or get sick and become handicapped? Shit can happen even if you learned to count only on yourself. I'm not talking about lazy bums who don't work but sit for the whole day watching TV and can't even cook a dinner for themselves but want their parents to change their diapers. I'm talking about people who are single, who work but live with their parents to cut the expenses and sometimes to even help their parents in house work because as the parents get older, they often need help. I realize it's not always an available option but if it is, then why make one's life more difficult?
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#112078 - 03/31/17 07:44 AM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: CanisMachina42]
Sargeist Offline
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If everything was random then particles would act randomly, we would be unable to observe repeated patterns of action. Fact is, they aren't and with our knowledge we are able to stablish laws which help us comprehend how and why everything in the universe works in the way it does.

I know chaos has a huge appeal, but I honestly think this has more to with subjective perception rather than with what is actually happening around us.


Edited by Sargeist (03/31/17 07:46 AM)
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#112079 - 03/31/17 09:08 AM Re: What Satan Is to Me (A Revision). [Re: Sargeist]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
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 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
If everything was random then particles would act randomly, we would be unable to observe repeated patterns of action.


Nah, it's actually a bit more tricky than that. You have to first establish the domain of the "randomness". Then perhaps what you accept as truly "random." And unless you believe each time-slice of the universe is itself randomly generated (as some kind of atom of space-time), you will be dealing with interconnections that are, by their very existence, conditioned across many axes, and hence not random by definition (i.e. dependent variables are a feature of reality).

Again, it's tricky . . .
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#112082 - 03/31/17 10:22 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I realize it's not always an available option but if it is, then why make one's life more difficult?


You're missing the point. I'm speaking of future pay off from tempering yourself. You say it's making things easier, I disagree. It makes things a lot harder later.

Believe it or not, people without families get on fine without them.

People are available resources if you need them, they just need incentive to do things for you. Whether that's pay, or some other ROI makes no difference.

Shit will happen continually, it doesn't mean you need people to clean up the mess.

I'm not saying that you are purposely making your life difficult by refusing help, I'm saying that that should be a second thought - not a first thought.

Remember, this convo was sparked from the fundamental question: How can you know what you're really made of until you stand on your own?
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#112142 - 04/04/17 09:08 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
2ndHandSatanist Offline
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Registered: 01/01/16
Posts: 42
Loc: CHICAGOOOO
If an answer is what you seek, you will get an answer.

If a word is what you wish, you will get only one.

Your word is... 'BENIGN'.
What is the point of your word being BENIGN? Well it was that it made you feel special for one, no...?
But as well as that it was that you were going to see that ask a lot of questions.

Here is your answer:
BENIGN.

Leave it benign.
See how that levels out. \:\)
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#112150 - 04/05/17 04:33 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: 2ndHandSatanist]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: 2ndHandSatanist
If an answer is what you seek, you will get an answer.

If a word is what you wish, you will get only one.

Your word is... 'BENIGN'.
What is the point of your word being BENIGN? Well it was that it made you feel special for one, no...?
But as well as that it was that you were going to see that ask a lot of questions.

Here is your answer:
BENIGN.

Leave it benign.
See how that levels out. \:\)


Let me go out on a limb here and just say: this (^^^) person is awesome. It might actually take 3-digits of IQ to get the humor, dry as it is, but holy fuck, this is my new favorite Clubber.

Did I just say that? Where's my SpellChek? Stop fucking with me . . .


Edited by Megatron (04/05/17 04:36 AM)
Edit Reason: Oh, so NOW I can edit. Fucking Gnomes. I hate those motherfuckers.
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#112303 - 04/12/17 08:51 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Megatron]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
After some days reformulating the ideas exposed on my previous post, I've come to a similar yet slightly different take on Satanism:

As I had mentioned earlier, Free Will is an illusion. We're all conditioned by our genes and environment. We have choices of course, but these are still determined by pre-existing factors.

So, if everything has been set for us already, is there a point in doing anything? Many people would actually feel relief at the idea that they no longer have to be held accountable for anything they do nor worry about tomorrow.

With Satanists, such is not the case.

As this video explains, just because we can't pinpoint the exact factors that led us to an action, we could, in theory isolate them - if we knew enough about all the beliefs, desires, and temperaments swirling around in our brains.

So my theory is that what makes Satanists stand out from the rest is that they have a better capacity to know themselves, their strengths and weaknesses, and the reasons why they do what they do. Once they have this information, they can use this knowledge to their benefit.

Most people go through this life in denial, which is why the alcoholic won't stop drinking and abstinence will only make him a slave of his weakness. Similar cases abound.

But, where's Satan then? Simple: "he/she" is the very essence of the universe, created at about the same time the Big Bang took place. Just as not all stars can become black holes, not everyone on this planet has what it takes to follow the path of Satan.

This is not to say that humans aren't individuals. It is in fact because of this determinism that humans are different from each other and therefore, conflict ensues. We are all someone else's Satan.

But does being the product of things we can't control mean that we shouldn't be held accountable for our actions? Indeed we should. Conflict doesn't mean that you let yourself be assaulted by somebody and say "oh poor thing he must have had a pretty terrible life to be doing this to me", it means that you fight back and rid the world of that sucker. Prey on the wild doesn't ask the predator for its motivations to chase it, either it defends itself or runs like hell. Forgiveness and self-sacrifice will hardly change your enemy's nature.

Knowing yourself gives you might, and Might is Right. There's divinity in Power and power in carnality.



Edited by Sargeist (04/12/17 09:37 PM)
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#112631 - 04/30/17 02:17 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 271
Either you are naïve, or you think your readers are naïve. By saying our choices are determined, you cancel free will. So, what makes you a Satanist if not free will to choose?
That he/she was created at the same time the Big Bang took place is a completely new theory to me. The belief that the center of the universe is Man is very old, yet it still stands as a conflict.
What is the true nature of conflict? It is the crush between two different individuals' free will. Or more. It is a part of a wider deflation process.
What is totally laughable is the comparison of the critical mass of a star with the ... "critical mass" of a Satanist. Yet this argument is so straight it makes me wonder, is there any validity up to it?
I totally agree that free will is an illusion, in a sense that we are slaves to our desires, not in that we're slaves to some kind of cosmic order. In a sense, that makes us alive.
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#112633 - 04/30/17 02:42 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: fiendish]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Sargeist, you have free will, albeit limited. What you choose is your own becoming. It is not an illusion, its misinterpretation is the flaw.
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#112644 - 04/30/17 10:50 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
 Quote:
So my theory is that what makes Satanists stand out from the rest is that they have a better capacity to know themselves, their strengths and weaknesses, and the reasons why they do what they do. Once they have this information, they can use this knowledge to their benefit.


Ya know, this bothered me at first because it sounds like the something I've heard before (I think from a Wiccan author btw) but after reading it that's not what bothers me about it. What bothers me about it is that it's not true. The Satanist is just as prone to falling into conditioned patterns as everyone else is and not being aware of it, of fooling themselves into thinking they are exerting some kind of free will when they are in fact just doing what they were programmed to. I would of even said in the past that Satanism is about fighting that societal conditioning (still kinda think that) but I don't think I've succeeded in that as much as my ego wants me to.

I honestly can't sit here and type any the Satanist is special because of _____ sentence anymore. They're just another persona trying to figure it out using the tools, experience and knowledge they have acquired over their life while foolishly thinking they are better than someone or something else.
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#112646 - 05/01/17 12:00 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: FemaleSatan]
LoneWolf78 Offline
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Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 419
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
I honestly can't sit here and type any the Satanist is special because of _____ sentence anymore. They're just another persona trying to figure it out using the tools, experience and knowledge they have acquired over their life while foolishly thinking they are better than someone or something else.


I understand where you are coming from. I think it is the kind of arrogant attitude that you describe that is the ultimate downfall of any Satanist or Satanic group for that matter.

Attempting to understand the tools, the application of knowledge and experience, however, is no small thing though. Look around at people who seem to never even try.

The last part of your statement though is I think the biggest folly for any Satanist. If you (not you personally) are comparing yourself to anyone else, you are not truly free. I think in some psychology circles they call this the self-esteem trap. You have to be very honest with yourself in terms of what you consider successes, failures, useful or useless. Understand that these things are subjective to each individual. What I may consider useful, you may consider useless. No less, we are each living by our own standards.

The fact of the matter is that no one is perfect by one's own standards no matter what label that they hang on themselves. Satanism offers tools to make what we deem our imperfections work for us rather than against us.

Satanism is for the selfish.

You can't be selfish and compare yourself to anyone else.

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#112647 - 05/01/17 12:30 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: LoneWolf78]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
You can't be selfish and compare yourself to anyone else.


I made an OP a while back asking people here about their 'dark idols.' I named some real and fictional influences as to my interest in things like Satanism and what you might consider 'left hand insight.'

Probably should have changed it to 'dark influences.' People here say they have no idols, no influences. I simply do not believe you. Your environment dictates your enemies and friends, all in contrast with your human physiology.

Here with many of you and your satanic ilk, are Satanic alters, tattoos, decoration, symbolism, code, jargon, volumes of text and other representations.

It has been said in a post way back by me and Czereda that no one here is without influence, be it LaVey, or ONA. You people are basing this on something.

I don't care if people idolize, it depends for me on the outcome. Do you bow and kneel, worship and praise, or do you learn, refine, match and exceed, even past the capabilities of your teacher?

One can simply admire, or they can take on the challenge. Mere praise doesn't get you anywhere, and I think it is important to see the distinction.

The destruction of idols and idolizing altogether is by my personal understanding, a result of living life and gaining familiarity with your own personal faculties as a human being. This maturity is a personal refinement gained through tribulation, discovery, wielding of one's optimal and unique traits.

What you bring out into the world can come back to you several times fold. Harnessing that back into yourself takes strength, but that's how humans learn, through real life consequence, both for good or ill. Living leads to learning, saying one is willing to pay attention.

In one way or another, you're repeating what you've been told. You have no choice but to conform to something, which is why one of the most memorable lines from LaVey himself is

"The trick is to choose a master wisely."

Choosing yourself as a master only means you recognize yourself as a conductor. What you choose to conduct is your own will, what you choose to embrace is your individual endeavour.

Your right LoneWolf, most don't even try. In fact, they will often shun away from the very notion itself, putting more energy into rejection in place of understanding.
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#112649 - 05/01/17 03:14 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
LoneWolf78 Offline
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Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 419
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
I made an OP a while back asking people here about their 'dark idols.' I named some real and fictional influences as to my interest in things like Satanism and what you might consider 'left hand insight.'

Probably should have changed it to 'dark influences.' People here say they have no idols, no influences. I simply do not believe you. Your environment dictates your enemies and friends, all in contrast with your human physiology.


Completely agreed. If I came across as saying that I have had no influences or role models, I apologize because I have certainly had some very good teachers along the way.

You hit the nail on the head though. I think that that is one of the main problems with Satanism today. There are far too many "too cool for school" types who will tell anyone who gives them the time of day how that they invented this or came up with that all by themselves. That is most shallow. The wheel is already there (no matter what wheel that it is) and unless you can prove that no one else in the existence of history came up with that wheel then no, you didn't invent it.

I think that kind of mentality comes from an insecure lot. For these types of people, they feel that if they admit to having role models or influences that there is no way that they can claim freedom. That, is of course, bullshit, because anyone anywhere can decide and take actions. It could be argued that some things may be illegal and therefor can't be done, again, this is rubbish. Whatever it is that you want to do, you can do it, if it is illegal though, you just have to think about if it is worth the consequences if you get caught.

Then there are the ones who are even worse. Those are the ones who think that if they admit that they didn't invent the idea but agree with it and go along that they will be seen by others as unoriginal, a copycat, or a follower. The folly in this line of thinking though is that they show their true hand and no matter their protestations to the contrary that not only do they care about what other people think of them, they live by it. If they were truly free and secure within themselves, they would have no problem saying, "Yea, I didn't think of this by myself, but I agree with it and it suits me fine." Incidentally, it is those who are the most secure that have no problem giving compliments to others.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
In one way or another, you're repeating what you've been told. You have no choice but to conform to something, which is why one of the most memorable lines from LaVey himself is

"The trick is to choose a master wisely."


I remember having a conversation with Stanton LaVey once along these lines. I remember him saying that conformity was like a really bad tasting medicine that you were trying to force feed to a child. That no matter how much the child kicked and screamed that one way or the other he would get the medicine. He then went on to say that it was the same with conformity. That no matter how much chest thumping that one does about being a nonconformist that eventually everyone conforms to something so to choose what you conformed to. I was pleased to hear him echo his grandfathers philosophy so eloquently.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Do you bow and kneel, worship and praise, or do you learn, refine, match and exceed, even past the capabilities of your teacher?


I would also ask if you decided to take what you could from your influences and make them you own.

I do not know enough about orders such as the ONA to make guesses, but I doubt that Anton LaVey ever meant for those who consider themselves Satanists to follow something lock step just because that was the way he wrote it.

Anyone who ever comes up with something influences but they also have their own influences. Anton LaVey listed many of his in original copies of TSB as well as the bibliography of The Satanic Witch. That said, you can see some traces of LaVey's influence still within the CoS, you can also see them in The Temple of Set (I think even Dr. Aquino would concede that), I can even see some traces of him within The Satanic Temple as much as they would be loathe to admit it.

At the end of someones life, look back at all of their friends, lovers, and associates (even those who broke ties years ago) and at first you may think what do any of these people have in common with the person being memorialized. But, then step back. Realize that each of you only knew a part of that person, you begin then to see that little thing about each person that did have something in common. With that understanding, step back further look at everyone and you see that all together they are a reflection of the man being memorialized.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Choosing yourself as a master only means you recognize yourself as a conductor. What you choose to conduct is your own will, what you choose to embrace is your individual endeavour.


Well said.

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#112694 - 05/06/17 06:36 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Sargeist]
fiendish Offline
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You cannot change the nature of the predator.
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#112705 - 05/08/17 04:28 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: fiendish]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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... as you cannot change the nature of the fiendish nonsensical one liners. Not that I really give a shit anyway.

You know, as obnoxious as some posters are, it just sucks to see guys like AK and MT and FN get shot the fuck down, while these bleak weird-Os swarm the forum.

Well, as its said, life goes on.

But I actually agree with fiendish here. Most things are predatory to some extent, more so than people generally like to acknowledge. SATAN is the the realization that reality more often shows its teeth of adversary than acceptance.

Yet life is a great thing to be respected.
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#112716 - 05/08/17 06:46 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
fiendish Offline
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You're joking. Adversaries is the reason predators exist. There is no acceptance and there's nothing to be respected, in real life. You think you know what Satan is for me. You'd better ask yourself what Satan is for you. I bet he's patronizing your way of thinking.
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#112831 - 05/17/17 01:21 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: fiendish]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Your words backfire on you fiendish. What's the point of adversary if not in respect to life? Predators do what they do for a reason. Think about it.
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#112847 - 05/20/17 04:18 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
fiendish Offline
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Well, you better think about it. What really is respect? A mutual conception. But, the reason it exists is adversity. In a way, respect derives from adversity. Life is not a great thing to be respected, yet it should be because it creates adversity. And here comes the reason...
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#112874 - 05/23/17 02:03 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: fiendish]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
Life is not a great thing to be respected, yet it should be because it creates adversity.


Back-asswards. Consider what creates adversity in the first place. Adversity is a part of living. It must be respected/applied to some level, but is really an outcome of living/respecting life on a whole.
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#112891 - 05/24/17 09:31 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: FemaleSatan]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: FS
They're just another persona trying to figure it out using the tools, experience and knowledge they have acquired over their life while foolishly thinking they are better than someone or something else.


If the 'Satanist' stands out from a mass, there's something about them moving against the current that people wonder if they are going the 'wrong way' .

I think if the arrogance of their deeds is spoken on at all, it's the flag waivers, the "Hey look what I can do!" types, in other words, the types doing exactly the same thing as everyone else believing they are somehow different.

Born Not Made means something.

If you picked up a book, turned your life around because of it. That ain't it.
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#112901 - 05/24/17 02:48 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
Born Not Made means something.


This is a tricky one. Are you implying that so called 'true' Satanists are not conditioned into their behaviour in any way what so ever? They are somehow just born with higher capability? Personally I find that a limited scope. While it might be so to some level, we aren't born with all our knowledge. We have to learn and refine.
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#112903 - 05/25/17 08:39 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dan_Dread Offline
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You can refine what you have, not what you are.
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#112908 - 05/25/17 02:52 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Dan_Dread]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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We are all human, still different.

There is a saying "Holding onto anger will only get you burned."

Yet I find that those who can hold the flames with a calloused grip have the upper hand in many ways. Defiance. Discipline. Control.

Callous only builds on trying hands.

Those who consistently avoid the flame often get burned the worst.
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#112909 - 05/25/17 03:36 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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WTF does that have to do with what we're talking about?

Seriously DoOd. We are speaking different languages.

 Originally Posted By: CN
This is a tricky one.


No, actually it's not. It's really simple.

 Quote:
Are you implying that so called 'true' Satanists are not conditioned into their behaviour in any way what so ever? They are somehow just born with higher capability?


It was never meant to be literal, like little devils in the womb, ffs. Either you're born in Conflict or you're not. Either you can handle diversity and thrive up on it, or you can't.

People don't change. Events do.

A person's characterization is built over a very short period of time, within the first years and stages of development. This accounts for why some kids comply no matter the instruction and others buck, no matter what incentive is given. It just grows from there. Foundation is core.
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#112912 - 05/25/17 04:13 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
WTF does that have to do with what we're talking about?

Seriously DoOd. We are speaking different languages.


It would seem you've misinterpreted. I'll await Dan's replay, perhaps he will understand.

 Quote:
People don't change. Events do.


*People change if they apply discipline. Sometimes it takes a large scale change in experience, sometimes just a spark of alternative thought. Its variable.

What you're implying is that events and environments change and people either can or can't adapt based on child-hood conditioning. This isn't the case with humans. They often can change against their conditioning, this comes down to personal life experience.

People experience, believe, and act, or experience, act and believe. The key is experience.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (05/25/17 04:27 PM)
Edit Reason: *
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#112918 - 05/26/17 08:47 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
We are all human, still different.

There is a saying "Holding onto anger will only get you burned."

Yet I find that those who can hold the flames with a calloused grip have the upper hand in many ways. Defiance. Discipline. Control.

Callous only builds on trying hands.

Those who consistently avoid the flame often get burned the worst.


So your saying basically that doin' the shit prepares you for the shit, while not doing the shit leaves you vulnerable to the shit?
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#112919 - 05/26/17 10:06 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
*People change if they apply discipline. Sometimes it takes a large scale change in experience, sometimes just a spark of alternative thought. Its variable.


I'm not buying it. People adapting to events isn't the same thing as change.

See: Darryl Hutchins (Interrogist or whatever the fuck he's calling himself these days) as an example. It's all over the forum, pretty prevalent and recent example for you to examine. I'm not picking on the guy, seriously. It's just that he really believes he's changed but he hasn't. He's just traded hats. The head in it remains unchanged.

 Quote:
What you're implying is that events and environments change and people either can or can't adapt based on child-hood conditioning.
I'm not implying anything. I'm blatantly saying that the assertion that people change is bullshit.

 Quote:
This isn't the case with humans. They often can change against their conditioning, this comes down to personal life experience.


No, this is your beliefs about it.

 Quote:
People experience, believe, and act, or experience, act and believe. The key is experience.


Doesn't matter what their experiences are, the core is foundation thus it remains unchanged. Doesn't matter how much bullshit you pile on top. All that dynamic stuff can be sorted out, but that's not the same thing as changing the foundation that holds up the structure.
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#112922 - 05/26/17 01:52 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
fiendish Offline
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As a matter of fact, what I mean is simply that what should be respected is not life as it is but what it can achieve. That doesn't mean life should not be respected on a whole, rather that each part of it should be respected on a whole.
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#112923 - 05/26/17 02:34 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: fiendish]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
So your saying basically that doin' the shit prepares you for the shit, while not doing the shit leaves you vulnerable to the shit?


More or less. *You don't know math until you start doing it, just like any other thing, but if we're talking human nature, it means adaptability and whether or not people have the ability to re-wire themselves for change or even just the mind to see the world for what it is.

*On the other hand, seeing the world as is means acknowledging that the shit, will always be the shit, perseverance be damned. As I said before, overcoming one obstacle reveals another. It depends how far one goes. Eventually the old 'core' changes. Concerning experience, what is known can not be unknown, once lived.

But yeah, the shit will always be the shit.

 Quote:
People adapting to events isn't the same thing as change.

See: Darryl Hutchins (Interrogist or whatever the fuck he's calling himself these days) as an example. It's all over the forum, pretty prevalent and recent example for you to examine. I'm not picking on the guy, seriously. It's just that he really believes he's changed but he hasn't. He's just traded hats. The head in it remains unchanged.


I should have mentioned something else I've noted in human behaviour. The reason I mention experience, is because it is key. People will change their behaviour if they have the right experiences.

I made it clear that we are all human, that of course doesn't change, but our physical capabilities can be maximized, so can our intellectual and emotional ones. Those can be crafted to your own. You're right, most just trade hats and think they've done it. Ask them to really change, and they turtle in until they must act. That's common human nature, because adapting to culture is ingrained in humans. This hat trading/playing dress up says a lot more about people than we like to give credit for. People identify because culture means survival, going against it usually only means grouping up with another side you feel more comfortable with.

Ultimately, life experience can change a person. Hateful can turn loving, and vice versa. These experiences have to be something more powerful and a new topic to post walls of text about on the forum, of course.

Point is, people can change their 'core' as you put it, but it normally takes a pretty big shake to knock it loose.

 Quote:
As a matter of fact, what I mean is simply that what should be respected is not life as it is but what it can achieve. That doesn't mean life should not be respected on a whole, rather that each part of it should be respected on a whole.


*Makes more sense but respecting each part on a whole just means respecting the whole, no?


Edited by Creatura Noptii (05/26/17 03:15 PM)
Edit Reason: ***
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#112926 - 05/26/17 03:56 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
fiendish Offline
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*Makes more sense but respecting each part on a whole just means respecting the whole, no?

Not necessarily, no. It's a paradox. Let's take senses for example. Everything is divided up to a point where you can't see the relation. There may be a relation, or there isn't. The fact is not whether there is a relation or not, but that you cannot see it.
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#112928 - 05/26/17 05:10 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CN
Ultimately, life experience can change a person. Hateful can turn loving, and vice versa. These experiences have to be something more powerful and a new topic to post walls of text about on the forum, of course.


I understand what you mean, I just don't agree.

I've had a ton of experiences, I haven't changed because of them. I have perhaps a different understanding and perspective on specific topics but aside that? I'm the same animal I was when I was a kid, I'm just older with more knowledge and experience.
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#112930 - 05/26/17 05:46 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Physically we don't change with the exception of ageing. I agree. That does not mean that people are incapable of changing their bodies and minds. We've discussed this in the violence innate? thread.

The innate individual doesn't change, but behaviour does in fact change for many reason. You are the same you in a new environment while behaving as you have chosen, I agree, but that does not mean you are reacting the same as you once did. There is in fact, personal behavioural change.

Your conundrum here is that you go from born, to childhood conditioning, that's a double standard and one is not necessarily equal to the other.

Why do twins often display different personalities?
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#112933 - 05/26/17 10:07 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
fiendish Offline
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I cannot resist. In fact I am a slave to my will. Then again is the stimuli. Is it me or it's just a case of Dumb and Dumber here? I mean physically. How low can the lowest denominator fall?
Just in case Dumb and Dumber were twins -which is not the case- why not spare the lives of some poor rabbits and use these blockheads for live experiments?
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#112942 - 05/27/17 06:45 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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 Quote:
Doesn't matter what their experiences are, the core is foundation thus it remains unchanged.


All good and well but what is that "core"? The only claim that seems valid enough to me is that our genetic predispositions are what constitutes our core. Whether those remain stable or are subject to modification by the environment is open to a debate. I don't find determinism convincing. While I agree that your character can't be totally changed, it for sure can be refined. Even a dilapidated house can be renovated if enough effort is put into it. You can change because of experience though not to the point you become a totally different person. I think refinement is a key word here.

 Quote:
Either you're born in Conflict or you're not. Either you can handle diversity and thrive up on it, or you can't.


That also can be learned from experience. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger comes to mind.

 Quote:
A person's characterization is built over a very short period of time, within the first years and stages of development. This accounts for why some kids comply no matter the instruction and others buck, no matter what incentive is given. It just grows from there.


You are painting a black and white picture here. I'm not a mother but from my short experience as a teacher and also from interacting with my little cousins, I can say that there are some nuances. It's not true that the kids obey or disobey every order no matter what. A lot depends on the parent's attitude and whether you can make the child respect you. Children, especially little ones, can also be bribed.

When it comes to grown ups, many cloak their failures and inadequacies under the disguise of rebellion and defiance. In that case it's either a desperate cry for attention or an ego defense mechanism that makes you despise what you can't have.
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#112943 - 05/27/17 08:15 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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SIN's point isn't only children. Its that people carry through the rest of their life what they learn at a young age. I'll admit its common, but its not impossible to apprehend your foundation.

 Quote:
many cloak their failures and inadequacies under the disguise of rebellion and defiance.


Correction "many SHOW their failures and inadequacies under the disguise of FALSE WISDOM and excessive WHINING.

Defiance and rebellion are often associated with immaturity, yet people forget these are also the virtues of true adults.

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#112950 - 05/28/17 03:16 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: SIN3]
when7iseleven Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
[
See: Darryl Hutchins (Interrogist or whatever the fuck he's calling himself these days) as an example. It's all over the forum, pretty prevalent and recent example for you to examine. I'm not picking on the guy, seriously. It's just that he really believes he's changed but he hasn't. He's just traded hats. The head in it remains unchanged.


It's called memory malleability; check out the work of Elizabeth Loftus. Basically your identity is a moving target, there is no endpoint, that is until the point your brain ceases to function.

Who Darryl remembers himself to be is not the person he was; his recollection of himself is merely a fragile brainstate from a time gone by that must be resurrected from time to time. He is not the person he thinks he was & may well truly believe he has changed.

Our memories build a false picture of the people we were, very often replacing it with a person we would like to have been.

None of us are the person we like to think we were, we are only the person that we are. Categorically we have all changed, probably fundamentally, but our consciousness convinces us that we are the same person we always were.#

As someone far more philosophical than me once said "can the same man cross the same river twice".
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#112954 - 05/28/17 06:35 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: when7iseleven]
Czereda Online
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 Quote:
Who Darryl remembers himself to be is not the person he was; his recollection of himself is merely a fragile brainstate from a time gone by that must be resurrected from time to time. He is not the person he thinks he was & may well truly believe he has changed.


Pretty convoluted in my opinion. In his case it's an ego defense mechanism, plain and simple; lying wholeheartedly to yourself till you believe your own bogus narrative. Because this narrative, although false, makes you feel good despite your failures and shortcomings.

Just yesterday I watched a documentary about homeless Poles living in Germany, Italy and other Western EU countries. They went abroad to earn easy money but failed to find or keep a job, failed to pay their bills and eventually landed on the street. These people adapted to their new situation and created their own narrative that let them somehow cope with the failure. This narrative was that they themselves chose this lifestyle, that they were more independent and happier than others and that they were homeless by choice rather than forced into it.

The same goes for children that are picked on at school. Or generally those who malfunction in the society. They might believe they alienated themselves by choice, not that they were rejected, and that they are more sophisticated than others, therefore misunderstood.

Another ego defense strategy is that you learn to despise that which you can't have, like the fox who couldn't reach for the grapes so he convinced himself the grapes were in fact sour. If you don't have enough of "magian currency", then you might rant on and on how foul the "magian currency" is and how you are above that mundane shit. Consider "Money won't buy you happiness" platitude, gladly embraced by everyone as poor as a church mouse.

This is why I wrote in my previous reply that defiance is overrated. I don't mean there are no genuine non-conformists but many people are simply fooling themselves and desperately try to fool others hoping that they confirm their delusions.


Edited by Czereda (05/28/17 06:40 PM)
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#112955 - 05/28/17 06:54 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
This is why I wrote in my previous reply that defiance is overrated. I don't mean there are no genuine non-conformists but many people are simply fooling themselves and desperately try to fool others so that they confirm their delusions.


Defiance is the mechanism of self-ownership in many cases. Non-conformity so often leads to the same behaviour.
This is subjective, but personally I would not equate it on whole with defiance.

 Quote:
Another ego defense strategy is that you learn to despise that which you can't have, like the fox who couldn't reach for the grapes so he convinced himself the grapes were in fact sour.


Agitated spite, not defiance. In this case, Satan is not only what tells the fox he isn't good enough, but what tells the fox he must have them. If he'd look elsewhere, perhaps he'd find grapes he could reach. Point is, trapping yourself with one temporary unobtainable thing is not defiance but futility.
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#112958 - 05/28/17 08:53 PM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: Creatura Noptii]
samowens84 Offline
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[quote=Creatura Noptii
Defiance is the mechanism of self-ownership in many cases. Non-conformity so often leads to the same behaviour.
This is subjective, but personally I would not equate it on whole with defiance.


[/quote]

I agree with both ideas up to a point, but what I dont agree with is that they are completly seperate from one another. I think it might begin with "trying to be different" and not really being unique, but it also seems to sometimes be part of the maturing process. It might begin with recognizing there is something wrong with the crowd, but not necessarily know why. It might begin with empty posturing, but stay out of the matrix long enough and authentic differentiaton might take place. In some cases it simply takes courage to embrace being seperate from the herd for any reason. The "suit" might be fake, but the core fact that they arent ment for the group is authentic.

As for "non-conformity" there are practical methods where non-conformist thinking is the thing, not the identity. I'll give a context. I was with some friends and we just played dodgeball. We then put up the tables, which were pretty heavy. The alpha-male of the activity scene declared that the tables couldnt be set up by one person, so everyone followed suit. I dont like asking for help so I figured out that I could open half the legs at once, use them as leverage to lift the table and then set up the other half. Funny thing is as I succeeded in getting the table up, the alpha came up and was like "you cant do that yourself!" (Granted, most people would be kidding, but he could be an oversensitive butthurt piece of shit, so Im 99% sure he was serious.) When the group is allowed to have its way, the effective method and critical thinking is laid down to the lowest common denominator of stupidity. Thats the value of rebellion. But I would argue that reaching that point may begin as an ego defense. If you begin two steps back from the rest of the race, it can motivate you to excel ten steps ahead. (Not necessarily always the case, but it seems to happen.) Exceptional destinations can come from unexceptional origins.

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#112965 - 05/30/17 11:16 AM Re: What Satan is to me (an interpretation). [Re: when7iseleven]
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Your opinion is noted but my mind remains unchanged. There are a certain sort that play leap-frog their entire lives but do not 'change' in the way people imagine they do. It's the same game, going in the same direction, doing exactly the same thing. Doesn't matter what one calls it. Language is merely used to mediate. If one's actions demonstrate it, TL/dnr not required.
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