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#112313 - 04/13/17 10:03 AM Capitalism and Reputation.
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
A few days ago a United Airlines plane was oversold and employees had no better idea than to forcefully remove one of the passengers out of the plane. The company's CEO didn't make things any better for them, and its shares fell dramatically.

You'd think that the purpose of Capitalism is to make money so... What the fuck? Why engage in behaviour that will inevitably yield losses and sometimes even destroy everything they worked for?

Is reputation really that worthless these days? How can Capitalism be put to work effectively if those who are supposed to keep the whole thing going fuck up so frequently?
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#112314 - 04/13/17 10:20 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Sargeist]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
The answer is very simple: human fallibility. Many people are greedy and want to make as much money as possible but not all of them know how to go about this. Some (or most?) lack perspective. They are just unable to predict the consequences of their actions. Long term thinking vs living here and now and not giving a fuck about the future. In business it is necessary to think not only in terms of years but decades.

Edited by Czereda (04/13/17 10:22 AM)
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#112315 - 04/13/17 10:23 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Czereda]
Sargeist Offline
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Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 358
Loc: Chile
Then how is Capitalism more feasible than say, Socialism? Wouldn't a sort of mixed economy work best for the development of a nation?

Edited by Sargeist (04/13/17 10:24 AM)
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#112316 - 04/13/17 10:42 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Sargeist]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
I am going to take the side of United, and say these passengers are a bunch of selfish fucks.

At first they were offered 400 and a hotel, then 800 and a hotel. 1 fucking person took it. So then United said a computer will pick 3 of you at random.  One guy that got picked didn't like it.
United could've handled "the removal" better.

They needed 4 seats for employees to get to work the next day. Not having a crew in place costs an airline way more than 3200 and 4 hotel rooms.

Schedule adherence is the airlines top priority. Any for profit business would try to avoid a costly cancellation, even by delaying a flight 2 hours to "tidy up".

Moral: United needs a clause in their ticket agreement that says "Will give up seats to United employees travelling in a capacity for United, Skywest, or other affiliated airline. passengers will be compensated."

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#112318 - 04/13/17 10:54 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: CanisMachina42]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I am going to take the side of United, and say these passengers are a bunch of selfish fucks.

At first they were offered 400 and a hotel, then 800 and a hotel. 1 fucking person took it. So then United said a computer will pick 3 of you at random.  One guy that got picked didn't like it.
United could've handled "the removal" better.

They needed 4 seats for employees to get to work the next day. Not having a crew in place costs an airline way more than 3200 and 4 hotel rooms.

Schedule adherence is the airlines top priority.

Moral: United needs a clause in they're ticket agreement that says "Will give up seats to United employees travelling in a capacity for United, Skywest, or other affiliated airline. passengers will be compensated."


WRONG!

Did I spell that right?

I know it gets tired, but you know me, tired and pugnacious - an awesome mix if ever there was one.

On point, why weren't these 4 employees pre-booked? Also, why didn't the airline offer the maximum of $1300 after only one bite at $800? Furthermore, why was excessive force used to do what even I could do without touching him (i.e. get this guy to stand up and vacate his seat)?

No, they fucked up. Having seen the video, I WILL say that that dude was a motherfucking bitch, but you gotta know how to deal with bitches (hint: it's not the same as dealing with an actual dude.) His bitchery does not excuse their triple fail, IMO.
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#112319 - 04/13/17 10:59 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Sargeist]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1846
Loc: Poland
Capitalism simply offers more freedom and opportunities for businesses. Freedom and opportunities can be used or wasted. No system will change human nature. Remember Mao's Great Leap Forward? It had disastrous consequences. Not everyone is able to predict the effects of their actions, especially those long term ones. As I wrote, in business you have to think in terms of not only years but decades. Few people are that imaginative. Then there also comes flexibility. Not everyone can adapt to new situations and deal with unpredictable economic turbulences.
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#112320 - 04/13/17 11:03 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
The CEO is on damage control. Initially, he stood by his staff and the actions of police. Then stocks dropped 6.3% at first, then 4%, which represents over a billion dollars.

The cop that dragged the guy, was forced onto leave.

Dao argued and challenged to be dragged off( link) then, once he was he screamed like a loon. Added to that, he snuck back on the plane with a bloody face for shock factor. He was on the phone with the airline while arguing with the cop, then later his lawyers. Cha-ching!

This guy was just a pain in the ass. There's one on every flight.

The CEO appeared to attempt to repair the damages created by Social Media and the Press. It's not going to tank the airline. Every passenger agrees to the fine print when they buy a ticket, this includes the Federal Law of "Must Fly" employees and the possibility that you may need to forfeit your seat. The Feds are now involved in 'investigation', what if they find the cop acted appropriately in this case? The Pilot's Wife nailed it.

Will the settlement be worth Dao's reputation being aired in the press? Now everyone he knows, is aware of his dirty laundry. Is money even the end game here? It's been reported that he just recently won big playing poker. That, coupled with his income as a (limited) practicing doctor coupled with his Wife's doctor salary; it doesn't appear to be money driven.

Maybe this guy is just whacked in the head. I don't think it has shit to do with Capitalism, that's just the vice.
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#112321 - 04/13/17 11:08 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Sargeist]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Society is made up from individuals.
An individual doesn't always acknowledge the social groups he pertains to.

Company policy only dictates procedures and cannot be accounted for when it concerns individual choice.

The entire story only indicates a structural flaw within U.A. policy.

It's a small downer at this moment. Something which can't be fixed in a matter of months.
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#112323 - 04/13/17 11:21 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Megatron]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Originally Posted By: JK
why weren't these 4 employees pre-booked?


Numerous reasons. It's likely this was a last minute addition brought on by strict FAA timeout regulations.

There were likely delays and the crew originally scheduled to fly the next day (that this crew was replacing) would still be restricted.

 Quote:
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight, when added to any commercial flying by that flight crewmember, may not exceed -

(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this subpart for the operation being conducted.


 Originally Posted By: JK
Also, why didn't the airline offer the maximum of $1300 after only one bite at $800? Furthermore, why was excessive force used to do what even I could do without touching him (i.e. get this guy to stand up and vacate his seat)?


The passengers don't know the maximum is 1300. Hearing the airline double it from 400 to 800 is a sort of "mind trick" to make the passengers believe the airline is that serious while still being undercut 500. It's a standard industry practice.

And that bitch deserved to be dragged off like that.
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#112328 - 04/13/17 02:49 PM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: CanisMachina42]
Megatron Offline
active member


Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: JK
why weren't these 4 employees pre-booked?


Numerous reasons. It's likely this was a last minute addition brought on by strict FAA timeout regulations.

There were likely delays and the crew originally scheduled to fly the next day (that this crew was replacing) would still be restricted.


That's the part where you lost me. What'd I make it, orange?

Yeah, something like that.

On point, you simply DO NOT replace customers with clerks. That's just common business sense, which is why United has taken quite the financial hit. I don't give a shit if those customers ARE bitches the likes of which my 6 year old son (that's Mike-Mike, btw, remember him?) would make squeal like a pig.

Everyone knows the airline could have gotten said clerks to their destination in another, not much more burdensome manner. They just decided to flex muscle. And they got caught. Oops.

As an aside, buy the stock, it'll go back up. People are lazy, forgetful, and, by and large stupid. At least when they're not screaming like little girls 'cause they got a busted lip . . .

Further aside: this same chickadee is now suing for reimbursement for reconstructive surgery following the event. Sorry dude, but you had fucked up teeth before you got your ass dragged off that plane like a tranked horse. All that heein' and hawin' . . .


Edited by Megatron (04/13/17 02:55 PM)
Edit Reason: Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel. Gimme an F. And a fucking R!!!
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#113266 - 06/20/17 11:23 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Czereda]
Magicka Dispelga Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 57
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Capitalism simply offers more freedom and opportunities for businesses. Freedom and opportunities can be used or wasted. No system will change human nature. Remember Mao's Great Leap Forward? It had disastrous consequences. Not everyone is able to predict the effects of their actions, especially those long term ones. As I wrote, in business you have to think in terms of not only years but decades. Few people are that imaginative. Then there also comes flexibility. Not everyone can adapt to new situations and deal with unpredictable economic turbulences.


Capitalism doesn't allow freedom. It helps create poverty.

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#113269 - 06/20/17 05:31 PM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Magicka Dispelga]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
One can be intellectually bankrupt in a free society without capitalism. This is why societies that rely solely on the barter system, collapse.
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#113270 - 06/20/17 06:41 PM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: SIN3]
Magicka Dispelga Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 57
It means that those people have less control over others on a massive scale. Just the concept of money alone creates the the reality of "not enough" money, preventing things from getting done, even when all the materials and know how are in place to get it done. There's so many problems that there's no tangible reason for, other than money. Religion is blamed as being made as a form of controlling people, but that applies to money just as much. I'm not sure what you care either way though, since I recall you making a comment implying you didn't care about the nature of workers getting chewed up and spat out.

Edited by Magicka Dispelga (06/20/17 06:43 PM)

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#113275 - 06/22/17 03:35 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Magicka Dispelga]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Money is the blood of society. Without it, it's dead.
Things get done. There's always enough money. The only problem would be the focus on where it should be spended at. To make the balance and investment on the side which holds the most merit and turnback.

People also tend to be forgetful and tend to claw their way back to a level they're either familiar with or optimalizes their lifestyle with/for minimal effort.

It's been 2 months since the incident. I barely see coverage and it seems to be out of the public eye. Prediction confirmed.



Edited by Dimitri (06/22/17 03:41 AM)
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#113277 - 06/22/17 09:51 AM Re: Capitalism and Reputation. [Re: Magicka Dispelga]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6837
Loc: Virginia
There are more consumers than there are producers. How would you propose that people that produce nothing, get what they need and want?

Money doesn't control people. A lack of ambition and planning does.

You don't get to choose to be born either. So what? Commerce began as a need in Ancient Babylon (using clay balls to indicate a trade deal) because bartering does not work, never has and probably never will. The majority of people have nothing to barter with.

If people feel controlled by their capital, they are doing it wrong.
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