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#112447 - 04/20/17 06:46 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
Is it that split tongue thing that you were talking about?


Wow! That was brilliant.

I've often wondered if, due to my prolific nature, my own words could be turned against me. I'm sure they could. Even though I've had the same ultimate philosophical core for the last 20+ years, things on the periphery shift and move from time to time.

Also, there's the issue of context. It is entirely possible to hold these two statements as true at the same time (just not in the same respect):

A) There is only one Satanism

B) There are many forms of Satanism.

Still, given these caveats, I must say, that was some fierce shit you just did, dude. But look at me, I just pulled off FOUR COMMAS! Only ever done five once.

JK


Edited by Megatron (04/20/17 06:57 AM)
Edit Reason: pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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#112449 - 04/20/17 09:09 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Just because a lot of people misunderstand, doesn't make that misunderstanding the way things are.

If you believe in a Devil, do it. Fuck everybody, that's still just Satanism.

If you have spiritual leanings, Be Spiritual. Who cares what other people think about it. Why do you give a shit? That's still just Satanism.

You have a boner for Lucifer? Fan-fucking-tastic. Fap to misunderstood myths and do the damn thing. Still, it's just Satanism.

It's really simple. It's not hard to understand, only the unintelligible have trouble with it.
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#112450 - 04/20/17 09:33 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: SIN3]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
 Quote:
If you believe in a Devil, do it. Fuck everybody, that's still just Satanism.

If you have spiritual leanings, Be Spiritual. Who cares what other people think about it. Why do you give a shit? That's still just Satanism.

You have a boner for Lucifer? Fan-fucking-tastic. Fap to misunderstood myths and do the damn thing. Still, it's just Satanism.


I agree.

I also agree with your sentiments of defying authority would be Satanism.

Being yourself with no apologies would also be Satanism.

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#112461 - 04/21/17 11:39 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Right, so if you want to try to sell it to me, I don't have to buy it. I shouldn't need to. External Validation is for people with a weak conviction.

People have been writing feverishly for decades to change the stripes of that Tiger but the Tiger is still a Tiger.
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#112464 - 04/21/17 12:06 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: SIN3]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
 Quote:
Right, so if you want to try to sell it to me, I don't have to buy it. I shouldn't need to.


I will answer you by quoting you:

 Quote:

That's just your perception. I'm not responsible for it.


 Quote:
External Validation is for people with a weak conviction.


Agreed.

Anything else?

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#113031 - 06/05/17 04:29 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
Bacchus Offline
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Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 61
@LoneWolf78

Even as a non-member I am grateful to the CoS for available materials provided by them and nobody else because that's the stuff I resonate with and not the other crap that I find almost everywhere else.

What may seem to the unthinking or the disgruntled as some sort of "corporate tyranny" of Gilmore or CoS is in fact a useful mechanism to protect LaVey's doctrines and practices from corruption, infiltration and takeover by various packs and their own fucking ideas and angles. It is much harder for infiltrators to operate within a corporate entity, especially small, tight-knit entity and disseminate their alien doctrines.

Man is a pack animal and there's no way around it, even for a practitioner of the individualistic doctrine. Without the "corporate meat-grinder" just about any group would have used Satanism as a vehicle for their special agenda.

You wouldn't want to turn CoS into some anemic "spirituality" club, would you? Or into just another socially engaged movement for the "great unwashed"?

 Quote:
"No one, let me repeat, NO ONE needs an organization to grant them freedom of thought or exploration. Anyone who would depend upon such a set up is indeed a slave and hardly a Satanist."


So many people are born into various groups and organizations that deny them their own autonomous faculties of senses and reason, so they can be considered slaves. But it takes a CHOICE (an act of a free man) to join the CoS. Instead to hide in a closet like a frightened animal it takes a COURAGE to join what is perhaps the only group that openly stands for egoism in a world that demands self-sacrifice and obedience. It's a PLEASURE to find other individuals with whom you may have something in common with, thus it is a form of SELF-INDULGENCE to pursue this joy.

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#113032 - 06/05/17 05:36 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2116
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
... a useful mechanism to protect LaVey's doctrines and practices from corruption, infiltration and takeover by various packs and their own fucking ideas and angles.


LaVey's doctrines. Hilarious.

But this is what is happening. Anyone can read LaVey's writings and the works of other CoS pooh bahs, most of which can be downloaded for free online and just do whatever they want with the ideas presented there. Of course, Gilmore might rant that the heretics ain't troo Satanists, that they are pretenders to the throne yada yada, the bullshit PR hardly anyone gives a fuck about.

I also wonder why you believe Satanism shouldn't be used as a vehicle for one's personal agenda. What is it for then?
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#113033 - 06/05/17 05:42 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 597
 Originally Posted By: Bacchus


So many people are born into various groups and organizations that deny them their own autonomous faculties of senses and reason, so they can be considered slaves. But it takes a CHOICE (an act of a free man) to join the CoS. Instead to hide in a closet like a frightened animal it takes a COURAGE to join what is perhaps the only group that openly stands for egoism in a world that demands self-sacrifice and obedience. It's a PLEASURE to find other individuals with whom you may have something in common with, thus it is a form of SELF-INDULGENCE to pursue this joy.


It takes "courage" to be open about being a satanist. Joining CoS is something else. They keep the registry secret. There is nothing inconsistent about being a "frightened animal" and being a member. It would take the extra step to tell your friends and family to announce said membership. Of course, one could just tell people youre a satanist and have the same "courage." Which for some people might just be foolhardy self-destruction. Are you arguing that "true Satanism" requires you to be a martyre for the "cause?"

As for finding like minded individuals, even Peter Gilmore will tell you that they arent the lonely hearts club, and that joining them does not necessarily bring you in contact with other individuals. Again, they say that it is not their responsibility. With the age of the internet and proper applications of lesser magic, you can find them on your own.

Personally, Ive done both these things and I am not a member. However that does not exclude me from joining in the future. My motives would only be a sense of responsibility and gratitude to an organization that I hope continues to publish new literature. I dont need them for "like-minded" individuals, or to feel especially "couragous." Im secure in both aspects thank you.


Edited by samowens84 (06/05/17 05:59 PM)

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#113035 - 06/05/17 06:31 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: samowens84]
Cyrus Offline
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Registered: 05/05/17
Posts: 20
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Bacchus

The bit about "courage" to join a group that celebrates egoism is amusing to me, because if one is an unbending egoist then one doesn't need anyone else to validate, or even share, that attribute. Only someone who (IMO rightly) questions their own egoist tendencies would need that group reinforcement. So what's the point of such a group, except as a sort of purgatory for people who are stuck in that catch-22, "Misanthropes United".

That's why I never joined any of the Satanic organizations until I found one that was more about social engagement than about ego--so I enjoy the social engagement, for its own sake, and practice my personal version of Satanism without needing their or anyone's stamp of approval.


Edited by Cyrus (06/05/17 06:32 PM)

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#113036 - 06/05/17 06:33 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Czereda]
Bacchus Offline
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Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Czereda

LaVey's doctrines. Hilarious.

But this is what is happening. Anyone can read LaVey's writings and the works of other CoS pooh bahs, most of which can be downloaded for free online and just do whatever they want with the ideas presented there. Of course, Gilmore might rant that the heretics ain't troo Satanists, that they are pretenders to the throne yada yada, the bullshit PR hardly anyone gives a fuck about.


If ANY individual was capable of critical examination (and especially self-examination) than The Nine Satanic Sins would have been superfluous, serving no purpose whatsoever. Some individuals need interaction, some seek self-perfection via exchange of ideas. Evidently you can't get a constructive, systematic exchange of ideas about a PARTICULAR field of interest just about everywhere and with everybody.

 Quote:
I also wonder why you believe Satanism shouldn't be used as a vehicle for one's personal agenda. What is it for then?


My original claim was about sectarian agendas. Why do you think LaVeyan Satanists should be spoonfed with non-LaVeyan garbage they disagree with? There are lots places where we can listen all sorts of outsiders provided we don't have anything better to do.

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#113037 - 06/05/17 07:29 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2116
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
My original claim was about sectarian agendas. Why do you think LaVeyan Satanists should be spoonfed with non-LaVeyan garbage they disagree with?


And it isn't a sectarian approach, right? A funny dude you are.
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#113038 - 06/05/17 07:31 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: samowens84]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
"They keep the registry secret... Are you arguing that "true Satanism" requires you to be a martyre for the "cause?"


Of course not, but to join a maligned group is an act of a courage because martyrdom CAN come down the road as an undesired consequence, regardless of all precautions. So courage is about taking the acceptable risk for a gain. It's not martyrdom or courage per se one is after but new experiences and fun.

 Quote:
As for finding like minded individuals, even Peter Gilmore will tell you that they arent the lonely hearts club, and that joining them does not necessarily bring you in contact with other individuals. Again, they say that it is not their responsibility.


I wouldn't know about that but I do remember hearing LaVey's interview stating that in the end of the day man is a 'social animal' and that this is indulgence too, as opposed to abstinence, asceticism. It's not as if he said that Satanists MUST join some organization or MUST internally socialize but rather that they don't have to live as hermits if they (mutually) find a society a more desirable alternative.

 Quote:
With the age of the internet and proper applications of lesser magic, you can find them on your own.


Internet is a mixed bag. churchofsatan.com and links on that page are more specific. I'm grateful there is such an organization online to provide info because without it I'd probably dwelled on all sorts of useless distractions and often crafty baits for a while and eventually loose interest.

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#113039 - 06/05/17 07:50 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2116
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
Of course not, but to join a maligned group is an act of a courage because martyrdom CAN come down the road as an undesired consequence, regardless of all precautions... I'm grateful there is such an organization online to provide info because without it I'd probably dwelled on all sorts of useless distractions and often crafty baits for a while and eventually loose interest.


I'm willing to bet all my money that this guy is trolling. Is this a test?

Go try your luck in a cabaret, buddy. You're wasting your potential here.
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#113040 - 06/05/17 07:55 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
samowens84 Online
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 597
I personally dont do well with group dynamics, and have never searched for any "right group." I hen picked a few individuals off the internet, and a couple in the real world. This way Im the center, and no one can exclude me from it. Joining an organization puts that power squarely in the hands of an authority figure. And I dont need them to sort out who is worthwhile and who isnt. Ive learned to usually discriminate on my own who to include. Not that meeting new people doesnt includes unforseen risk. Like you said, no matter how many precautions taken...

"Of course not, but to join a maligned group is an act of a courage because martyrdom CAN come down the road as an undesired consequence, regardless of all precautions. So courage is about taking the acceptable risk for a gain. It's not martyrdom or courage per se one is after but new experiences and fun."

Do this on my own. I enjoy my life. ;\) But I agree with the sentiment. Adventure, excitement and new wisdoms gained usually come at the price of safety.


Edited by samowens84 (06/05/17 07:59 PM)

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#113041 - 06/05/17 08:14 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Czereda]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
And it isn't a sectarian approach, right? A funny dude you are.


There's nothing wrong about sectarianism provided it's your sort of sectarianism. Otherwise what's the point of wasting your time with people you don't share any common affinities? doh...






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