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#113085 - 06/07/17 10:20 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Cyrus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3975
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
they just do the work.


Maybe, but not the devil's work. They are just another outlet of safe impotent protest that appeals to people that would rather complain about problems than solve them.

The costume they have chosen just couldn't fit any worse.
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#113089 - 06/07/17 11:45 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7188
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
TST is about rebellion against dogmatic thought...but Epicurus was a dogmatic writer of his Canon and LaVey codified the doctrines of CoS. These people were dogmatic about their teachings! There is nothing wrong with that word.


While dogma isn't a bad word, this is debatable. LaVey included dogma for those that need it, understanding the condition of man. I don't think that alone determines what the CoS is and does. That's more of an outer interpretation of written utterings by people like Gilmore. Gilmore is not the CoS. He is one man expressing ideas based on previously uttered thoughts.
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#113092 - 06/07/17 04:38 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: SIN3]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 58
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
LaVey included dogma for those that need it understanding the condition of man.


That means the entire membership. For what other reason a person of sound mind knowingly joins a certain society based on uttered principles if not out of need and approval of these principles?

It's not as if LaVey or Gilmore forced someone to join like "major world religions" do. And it's not as if they trick people to join by NOT uttering their basic tenets, or by clouding them them in a cryptic or ambiguous language like obscurantists. Even those who do not wish to join CoS should be grateful for this sort of 'in your face' transparency which allows them to make the right decision according to their own preferences - and not join.

 Quote:
I don't think that alone determines what the CoS is and does.


Can you be more specific? What determines an organization if not some set of ideas? What else remains? People (like arms, legs..)? Buildings (bricks, boards, Baphomet statues..)?

 Quote:
That's more of an outer interpretation of written utterings by people like Gilmore. Gilmore is not the CoS. He is one man expressing ideas based on previously uttered thoughts.


This of course is an inversion. People who attack Gilmore and question his prerogative just for enforcing the rules (which is after all his job) make them selves obvious (outer).

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#113093 - 06/07/17 05:27 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
I endured only a couple of minutes of this; I gather it was an argument about selling a Gilmore conclave souvenir coin on eBay?


Yes. You are correct. It also gets rather embarrassing when you consider that the one who sounds drunk is a Warlock and one of the hosts (John Shaw) is a reverend. The said Warlock has had to resort to go fund me on several occasions due to financial difficulties and John Shaw? How he got to be a reverend is anyone's guess. Here is a guy who was back on alt.Satanism in the early 2000's bad mouthing the CoS, then tries to sell his jewelry to Gilmore, who referred it to Blanche, who claimed it was cheap and broken, with Shaw ending up calling her a "fat bitch". However, now, Shaw is a reverend and he runs the CoS's "authorized" jewelry store, so go figure.

The other interview that I posted with Peter and Peggy may be of some interest to you. Within the first twenty minutes the ToS is invoked and discussed for a bit. Then around the fifty minute to fifty-four minute mark Peter begins discussing you.

One other important note that I should make here I began this thread on 4/16/2017. One of the criticisms that I leveled was in reference to the original article that I posted where Gilmore says,

 Originally Posted By: Peter Gilmore
However, since Satanism advocates free thought and exploration of what might be of interest to each Satanist, some of our members might choose to examine various forms of occult thought, both past and present, and this is not in any way "forbidden." It is not encouraged, either.


My criticism was as follows,

 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf
So, let's straight. Here is where Peter comes into create a sidestep for himself and by the same token give the gift of freedom.

Ha!

Are CoS members supposed to be grateful that Peter doesn't forbid them free thought and exploration?!

I know that a sucker is born every second, but let's get a little bit real here, ok?


Now, the video that I have been referencing was done on 4/28/2017. Ten days after my OP. Listen to the question at the 1:01:22 mark and then PAY CLOSE ATTENTION to Gilmore's response:

 Originally Posted By: Peter Gilmore
Well, it all depends, on, you know, like, that's very broad concept. Because everybody's allowed to, I mean allowed, I mean their, it's basic fundamental approach to Satanism is that you live the way you want to, that you express yourself the way you want to, we're about freedom and individualism.


Notice how tongue tied he is getting over the concept of allowed. It is almost like he was going to say what he typically would from his cyber throne, "Everybody is allowed to live the way you want to, that you express yourself the way you want to, we're about freedom and individualism (with the implied notion that people couldn't do this for themselves)." However, then he caught himself (who knows, maybe due to something he read) getting tongue tied and trying to (as he does with so many other things) twist it another way.

Finally, it is going around that Peggy is working on a CoS history project. Do you want to guess as to who's books she is rumored to be using due to "meticulous" record keeping?

If you looked in the mirror Dr. Aquino, you would be right.

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#113094 - 06/07/17 05:36 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: SIN3]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
 Originally Posted By: SIN
That's more of an outer interpretation of written utterings by people like Gilmore. Gilmore is not the CoS. He is one man expressing ideas based on previously uttered thoughts.


Quite correct.

He owns the business that has been three times removed from Anton LaVey. He more or less rides coattails of the founder of the said business. And rather than do anything further beyond white-washing the said religion and said founder.

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#113095 - 06/07/17 05:46 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
This of course is an inversion. People who attack Gilmore and question his prerogative just for enforcing the rules (which is after all his job) make them selves obvious (outer).


No, I simply attack him for white-washing Anton LaVey and Satanic philosophy.

So, may I ask, have you bought your freedom for $200? Did it give you the bonus of courage to come out of the closet?

While I don't know the answer to the first question, the answer to the second has already been answered.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
Since I live in Croatia, a Catholic country I tend to be practical. My parents are (moderate) Catholics so I avoid the subject. My dad knows from our conversations that I am not very fond of Catholic teachings and tend to be more "pagan" or "liberal" minded but I have never came out blatantly as a Satanist since that expression has a shock value and bad connotations.


It sounds as though you would fit right in with Gilmore kiddo.

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#113096 - 06/07/17 05:49 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: Cyrus
And you do not see those freedoms being eroded and robbed right in front of our eyes by the theocratic shitbags currently in office? Christian curricula taught openly in schools, women's health care defunded for religious reasons, the health of our kids sold out on the basis of dominionism, etc. Perhaps you think if those actions don't affect you directly, they don't affect anyone else? Perhaps you think this is not a slippery slope?


Alright Miley, listen up. Christianity aside, feminism is a lot more destructive. Masculinity is being systematically terminated.

For the most part, Women's heath care is being de-funded for business and economical purposes. Religion is only a moral excuse. Women are the ones sucking up welfare. I'm not one to hate all women, but I'm no white knight and not so quick like you to jump on any given bandwagon.

It doesn't matter who takes office these days, its a fucking puppet show.

You liberal dipshits have nothing better to do than swallow feminist load. Even on my laziest days I still have more ambition than you people could muster in a year.

Go back to your Portlandia circus.
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#113097 - 06/07/17 05:58 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf
No, I simply attack him for white-washing Anton LaVey and Satanic philosophy.


You can't find a copy of The Satanic Bible these days without Gilligan's intro. He only briefly mentions Karla LaVey, nothing about The First Satanic Church.

Originally I found this place through her website. I've wanted to attend Black X-Mas just for fun. Was planning to last year as it marked 50 years. Is it still a thing these days?
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#113098 - 06/07/17 06:15 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1229
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Alright Miley, listen up. Christianity aside, feminism is a lot more destructive. Masculinity is being systematically terminated.

Yes.

 Quote:
For the most part, Women's heath care is being de-funded for business and economical purposes. Religion is only a moral excuse. Women are the ones sucking up welfare.

No!

Children are what qualify women for welfare. Women's healthcare is a euphemism for birth control. Birth control keeps women off welfare. Economically it's a huge net save. A stitch in time. There's really no economic justification for cutting funding to something that saves taxpayers billions in the long run.
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#113099 - 06/07/17 07:44 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: XiaoGui17]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
The actual fuck? No it doesn't! Women are having kids, taking welfare through no fault divorce laws, and eating up the welfare system. Birth control is not helping the problem with DEAD BEAT MOMS.

On the other hand, men should also stop blowing their loads in women and learn how to pull out correctly. But you won't see that implemented in our sex ed system any-time soon. Nor will you see many HONEST men vs women stats on major issues, be it labour, STDs, income or otherwise. Take away marriage and long term relationships, and you'll see women where they naturally go: to the brothel. Marriage is just systematic prostitution, and its only gotten worse.

*I do wonder what will happen once men get their birth control. No more lying about being on the pill, no more sperm jacking. A new men's procedure would be more effective, its called Vasalgel. Its shown to last over a year in Baboons and rabbits. It would cost far less than women having to take a pill every day, and the complications with Vasalgel are as of now, virtually none. Basically, its a gel injection to block sperm while allowing semenal fluidity.

"Vasalgel is a polymer hydrogel that is injected into the vas deferens (the tube sperm swim through) and blocks sperm. The quick procedure is similar to No-Scalpel Vasectomy (NSV), except the doctor injects the vas deferens with gel, instead of cutting it."

The aim is for this procedure to cost somewhere well below $800 USD. Since it might well last over a year or longer, it'd be a greater thing. As for children, men can always have it backed up.

I think the effect will be better, and give men the over all upper hand.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (06/07/17 08:38 PM)
Edit Reason: edits
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#113100 - 06/07/17 08:38 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 437
"While I don't know the answer to the first question, the answer to the second has been answered."

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Lol so what was that bullshit about "courage" if you havent already joined? Are you scared and trying to talk yourself into it? Are you that "scared frightened animal?" ;\)


Courage not the absence of fear or bravado but rather resistance to fear, mastery of fear. The reason why I haven't joined has nothing to do with taking into consideration all the unlikely but still possible risks (like theocratic government taking over and purging all non-Christians).


Courage isnt courage without action. And youre a long way from "mastery." Youre still just a slave.


First question was answered as well. This guy is all talk.

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#113101 - 06/07/17 08:44 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 58
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
No, I simply attack him for white-washing Anton LaVey and Satanic philosophy.

So, may I ask, have you bought your freedom for $200? Did it give you the bonus of courage to come out of the closet?


You don't think LaVey is badmouthed because of ideas he espoused? You don't think Gilmore is supposed to thwart character assassination attempts against LaVey? Lots of people envy LaVey's public success which has made "Satanism" into something more than horror fiction subject at best and black chronicle news at worst.

Lots of people hate what LaVey created because it dwarfed whatever they try to establish. So what other mean they can employ to destroy the idea they cannot outshine if not character assassinations: Firstly of LaVey, than of Gilmore as his accomplished successor and - as your personal attack against me demonstrates - everyone who can see threw your pretense of "open-mindedness" and sides with CoS.

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#113103 - 06/07/17 10:14 PM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: Bacchus]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
You don't think LaVey is badmouthed because of ideas he espoused? You don't think Gilmore is supposed to thwart character assassination attempts against LaVey?


There is quite a difference between thwarting character assassination attempts and white-washing the guy.

Here is one example:

Assuming you have The Secret Life of a Satanist, by Blanche Barton, go to pages 237-238. Where Anton LaVey said,

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor Lavey
I'd rather be grouped in the company of killers than in the company of wimps.


LaVey also went on to speak highly of James Huberty and Richard Ramirez. In regards to Ramirez, he said specifically,

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey
When I met Richard Ramirez he was the nicest, most polite young man you'd ever want to meet...a model of deportment.



Back when Nikolas Schreck and Zeena were still part of the CoS in good standing, they kept in touch with Ramirez in prison and visited him on occasion.

Now, for the following video featuring Gilmore at the 4:27 mark he is asked about Richard Ramirez. This is his response,

 Originally Posted By: Peter H Gilmore
I have nothing but contempt for somebody like Richard Ramirez and wish that he would have climbed into the bedroom of a Satanic woman who would have shot his sorry ass and stopped his reign of terror.


Quite a difference there, wouldn't you say?

To the best of my knowledge Anton LaVey never claimed to be either a nice man or make apologies or excuses for some of his statements that certainly put him at odds with mainstream society. This is why it is offensive to see Gilmore constantly try to apologize for them. The only thing more disgusting is people who have read the books, read the public records, studied anything they could get their hands on, and called themselves Satanists not calling bullshit on this guy. It shows that they are indeed sheep, followers, and gullible.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
of Gilmore as his accomplished successor


You really believe that don't you?

Let's see here, did you know that Blanche Barton wasn't even appointed the High Priestess of the CoS by Anton LaVey. This was not her title at the time of his passing. It didn't become her title until she settled on the business name of the CoS after the hand written will that she produced was challenged by both Karla and Zeena.

By that time, as Dr. Aquino and public records (available to anyone who does their homework) show, the CoS was listed as LaVey's personal business and was granted bankruptcy. So, Blanche got the name of a bankrupted business. She then sold it to the Gilmore group and I am not sure if it has ever been officially bought out of bankruptcy. So you will excuse me while I have a nice hard laugh about Gilmore being Anton LaVey's "most accomplished successor." According to someone who knew him well, Anton called Gilmore a "useful idiot" behind his back. I would agree on that from Anton's perspective at that time.


 Originally Posted By: Bacchus
as your personal attack against me demonstrates


What attack?

If you are ashamed of something that you posted before that is on you not on me.






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#113104 - 06/08/17 02:25 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2711
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
it is going around that Peggy is working on a CoS history project.

Somewhere around the 2nd Edition of my CoS, Sharon Densley came up with a competitor of the same name and the same cover design. I think it's long since out-ot-pfrint, though used copies are probably findable.

That effort didn't bother me then, and this one doesn't bother me now. The worth of any book is in what it has to say, not in what it advertises itself to be. I wrote CoS over more than a decade and 8 editions with one thing in mind: to recapture the original Church for the reader who was not there to experience it first-hand. So I tried to come at it from as many perspectives as possible, which explains all the letters, articles, appendices, footnotes, photos, etc.

I don't have either the access nor the interest to profile what Gilmore has done with his business, so if he & Peggy want to write it up, that's their affair.

As to the notion of dabbling in "other occultisms", the question is "Why?" If it's just for amusement, no harm done.

It's when you set out to do serious research, tackle the big questions, etc. that you don't want to waste time on blind alleys if you can help it. One of the main objectives of a university education is to teach discernment in research, so that when you write a paper, it's substance, not BS.

This is all the more important in the Internet era, when we are awash in BS aka "fake news". And regrettably from my point of view, universities are not putting as much emphasis on teaching "scholarship" as in my day. Today it's a frantic rush for job marketable skills, which is understandable in this economy.

The second half of the SB consists of the Enochian Keys. If you're on a Gilmore forum, ask the participants to explain what they are, where they came from, and what they're good for. Unless they quote the analyses in CoS & ToS, I suspect you'll just get a lot of glazed eyes.

I think I mentioned elsewhere on 600C that when Anton and I were once chatting and I asked him why the EK were so misrepresented in the SB - because he was certainly smart enough to know their real backstory - he grinned and said that he just needed something incomprehensible and spooky to accent Satanic rituals. Similar to the Catholic Church's use of Latin to make its stuff sound more mysterious.

I think it was Sprague de Camp who some decades ago came out with a fancy hardback "Necronomicon", red leather cover, and a book-length text in Arabic. But if you looked closely, there were only 4 pages, which were then repeated several times to fatten up the book. It was so you'd have something to pull down from your bookcase to wow clueless visitors. \:D

I created the "Yuggothic" language for the two HPL rituals in SR out of thin air during coffeefbreaks while I was on the USA Armor School faculty in 1971. Worked up a rough vocabulary & grammar to make it workable. What Anton and I didn't expect was how it would freak out the HPL community; that's why I finally wrote the Nyctalops article explaining it. ;\)
_________________________
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#113106 - 06/08/17 08:26 AM Re: As The CoS Drifts Further From Satan..... [Re: LoneWolf78]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 58
I am not so well informed about the intrigues behind the scenes but I won't take anything stated for granted without hearing the opposite side which is apparently either absent or dormant here.


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