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#118281 - 01/30/19 11:23 PM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 457
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Self-interest need not exclude being socio-kind in general. In doing so through any number of gestures, you can show you have no chip on your shoulder, constantly worried about your children and family. I see no contradiction between casting pearls to swine and eventually eating the swine (piscetarian: would never touch it). What I said about mutual admiration goes beyond being "kind", in fact kindness can conveniently be confused with altruism. It is a clandestine way to subdue an enemy which has been tested throughout history. But such animosity is only something which you should have few of. Afterall it takes energy to expend, which otherwise is best relegated to parts of your life that more than make up for any past deficiencies if you harness them.

In short, people-pleasing and self-interest are not incompatible.
I hope to make that cunt Ayn Rand roll in her grave.


Nothing you said strictly contradicted anything I said. Perhaps we're saying the same things with different words.

And no, I'm not worried about my family because the universe will fuck anyone over who gets close to them, so I'm not worried.

Beyond that, I can be on good terms with anyone.


And honestly, I only have a few close friends, and I don't view people as "enemies," even if they view me as such. Checking people isn't the same thing as "subduing" them. I view people as human beings in mind traps when other fuckheads make up who should be someone else's "enemy" or "friend," when most people, in my perspective are just caught in a different part of the quantum web trying to make their way home.


It's fun to sometimes view people like "friends" or "enemies." That satisfies an animal response that makes interactions fun or otherwise dramatizes interactions to add intrigue to the situation. But that doesn't represent the way the world as it actually is, but rather reduces it to a boardgame to make it understandable and engageable to otherwise limited souls.


Like it might make you feel cool and primal and strong and cunning to use the language you used to describe the scenerios we all find ourselves in. To make it look like a game makes it feel like you're fighting the whole world. But life is more like golf rather than football. You're mostly playing against yourself, and only you hold the key to your own defeat.


Personally, it's kind of fun to challenge you and for you to challenge me. It probably is part of our life purpose, but it also puts exciting energy into the duldrums of existence.


You may or may not view yourself as my enemy, but not to shatter your ego, your personal existence isn't that close to me as you might like. You might say I neither admire you nor anything else beyond amusing and engaging for the moments we find ourselves engaging our hearts and wits.

Unless, of course, you're one of a select few that are truly close to me in real life, and then there is love, loyalty and comraderie. But if I just met you in a bar and you remind me of someone else, I might just be engaging your company because in a mundane way you remind me of someone who was very important to me. And there's nothing wrong with that, in my view. I know I've been that for someone else, and it seems that our engagements though, have found a way around that so that we have formed our own independent bond.

However, in some cases, my "affections" and "attentions" is just personal sadness for missing someone you remind me of that you're just a vague echo of, while I detect some ethical issues that for right now I wouldn't want to get close to with a ten thousand foot pole. Not because of your history, but because you don't yet seem to acknowledge what's wrong with your fucked up behavior and seem unwilling to take responsibility for it.

I've loved a lot of people with fucked up horrendous pasts, but the difference, I suspect, is that they have taken action to correct their mistakes and are still working to find their innocence again.

Whereas, with others, they seem to just seem to be desperate to cling to their echo chamber to avoid having to have the moral courage to actually challenge their fucked up shit.

Such people are just narcissistically angry that I've made them all too aware of how fucked up their actions are and that they have the ability to make things better for others who don't deserve to suffer, and out of weakness and cowardice, cling to their sadness as if that represents some kind of "innocence."

News flash, it doesn't.

Call it moral B.S., but it's not whether a person is weak or strong that earns my contempt or respect. It's whether that person actually gives a damn about anyone else but themselves and actually gives a damn about not hurting others.

If you have no morals, then I can't trust you and have no respect for you, regardless of how "powerful" you imagine yourself to be. That doesn't impress me.


Edited by samowens84 (01/30/19 11:42 PM)

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#118283 - 01/31/19 01:00 AM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 204
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
 Quote:
Personally, it's kind of fun to challenge you and for you to challenge me. It probably is part of our life purpose, but it also puts exciting energy into the duldrums of existence.


I'm not your enemy, you are and always will be because of your general disposition. I wouldn't donate sperm if I were you.
Don't flatter yourself with life-purpose platitudes. You manage ad nauseum to avert the topics you respond to in order to not even propogate but spout emotional drivel. A magna carta here from me would, again, be casting pearls to thee swine. Do you even remember what the thread is?

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#118285 - 01/31/19 10:29 AM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: LoneWolf78]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
I'd say, that yes there will always be impulses there. You are under the influence of hormones, adrenaline, etc. also. Intellectually though, you have to sort out a lot. Whether that be preferences, reactions, ideas, etc. So again, the notion that all of this is done alone is bogus to me. You need adversity to force you out of comofort. Can you really have that in solitude? I doubt it.

You don't even have to like people (in general), have a family, or a large circle of associates to do it. Just get out there and interract with other humans, get input from them; no matter the outlet. Get out of your own head and figure out what your make up is.

It doesn't mean you have to kick back every influence but just be honest withyourself about the origins of notions put in your head. Decide to challenge likes, dislikes, etc.

All activity is worthwhile, its stagnation where things go to die. That's reason enough to endure a good trolling on a stagnate forum, allow new users to enter or restrict those blocking the flow.

Stagnation leads to apathy, apathy leads to death.




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#118287 - 01/31/19 11:43 AM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: samowens84]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2090
Loc: Poland
What you seem to miss here is that people-pleasing can be a form of manipulation. An obedient ass kisser doesn't have to be a spineless slave. More often, it's a strategy. It's not inherently wrong. It either works or not. Usually it does because most people view themselves as smarter and more important than they are in reality. Pompous jerks and those who crave validation are obvious targets.

The need to belong and the struggle to hold the higher position in one's tribe are a primal mechanism. Even you and all other moralizing pseudo-rebels are motivated by it to some extent. Everyone is and, if you don't understand this very basic and primal instinct that stems from our animalistic nature, then you will never learn to control it.

I can agree with you that the refusal to back down from your position in an argument nurtures self respect. However, it won't always bring you the respect of others. In some minor cases it is possible. But when people feel their interests are threatened, all the sentiments go out the window. The proverbial sticking your hand or dick in an anthill.

The ongoing problem with you is that you don't want to acknowledge the darker and more sinister side to human nature. It begs the question why you're even here. I don't mean to say everyone is an asshole and people are incapable of kindness. For sure, they are but there is another side of the coin. It takes a high degree of morbid curiosity to be willing to explore it.


Edited by Czereda (01/31/19 11:55 AM)
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#118288 - 01/31/19 12:07 PM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: samowens84]
samowens84 Online
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 457
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Primal instinct dictates action, overriding other impulses. But yet is itself an impulse, reacting to stimulus. Individuality comes rarely so step in line for that. About pleasing people/strangers: I see no harm in it in general. Advantages are to be had through mutual admiration when and where deserved. When will your paranoia serve you any better?



Now, the mindfuck is when someone is so strong in their character when they are willing to opt for nurturing contempt at the expense of respect when other people viewing you with contempt helps you reach your goals with greater efficiency.

So there are no hard and fast rules here.

But to answer the question, "people pleasing" as an immutable persona isn't a condition I would wish on anyone as a permanent placement, because that makes it a destination rather than a stratagem, or, if one gets too comfortable, your enemies can reverse your stratagem so as to make you so comfortable in your persona so that your strategy has become your trap.

Lots of potential exploration here.

For example, from an ethical standpoint, what if gaining the approval of those you care about is in opposition to both your well being and theirs?

Would you let your ship sink for the sake of a pat on the back?

Earning the love and admiration of the public depends on upholding basic inspirational human values.

Standing fast and never giving up devotion to the one you love and never failing that responsibility, for instance, would win more admiration, love and adoration than being able to learn how to play a Mozart symphony from one listen.


You mentioned Czereda, that people pleasing can be a manipulative tool for those who are pompous and sure of how much smarter they are than anybody else.

I wonder if you can read my previous quote and see the irony in your statement. ;\)

But yes. I agree with you.

And as for the existence of sinister things and whether they are sometimes necessary, we are in agreement. But as mentioned, they can become an addiction where the strategy can become the trap as people can sometimes become hypnotized by their own con.

As someone else mentioned, this is why, even with those myopically inclined need help from like minded friends.

An asskissing master manipulater pretending to be a spineless slave can eventually become one if they don't have someone to shake them out of apathy.

And as for the two ways between people pleasing and holding fast, I've found there to be a third way. Where one is more of a benefit to holding fast. And if it doesn't, it need not end on a sinister note, it just means the compatibility is wrong. That's all.

I am who I am, and I like who I am. I can adapt my strategies and perspectives and find some coherence and understanding with the people around me, but I do draw a line for what I love most in this world.

Of course, I feel that manipulative tactics like that may only work on fools who dont realize that they have no real goals beyond affirmation and validation.

But there is a third way still. Two people who have the same goals may allow the primary energy to take the lead and to fead off a willing partner willing to take the role of being "wrong" to keep the prime mover energized and motivated. What may be called positive manipulation, where both are savvy to the same goals and same vision, and both recognize that spark and fire is what gets one over the finish line, rather than intelligence.

This means that the more intelligent one may pragmatically assume the submissive role as a pragmatic and self interested stance so that the one with more energy may carry them farther with their fire, and the one with fire may know what's in their interest and benefit from the intelligence from the one in the submissive stance.

So it isn't always clear cut, of course.


Edited by samowens84 (01/31/19 12:20 PM)

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#118289 - 01/31/19 12:33 PM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: samowens84]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2090
Loc: Poland
That isn't what I said. The pompous are the targets, not those who manipulate. And it's not true that yes people are always viewed by those at the top with contempt. Generally, people surround themselves with those who tell them what they want to hear while those who challenge them are viewed as enemies. There are exceptions, sure, but they are rarer than your idealistic mind imagines.

Like this:

"Earning the love and admiration of the public depends on upholding basic inspirational human values."

I only wonder why most of the politicians elected by the majority of citizens are so full of shit then.

I'm not encouraging conformity by any means. I just suspect you have no empirical evidence to back up the idealistic bullshit you preach here. Seriously, stick your dick in an anthill. For a few seconds. See what will happen.
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Crazy Cat Lady

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#118295 - 01/31/19 07:40 PM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: samowens84]
Tom Satanic Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 41
Dude you live in a weird fuckin' headspace. It's obvious your not in any way Satanic whatsoever and are the epitome of a complete moron.

You have to make compromises in life and challenge your own values, even destroy them if they are not realistic. That is what I am talking about. You on the other hand obviously don't get it or don't want to, hence your idiot dellusional crap of a response.

Grow a brain, or take your lovey dovey bullshit the fuck outta here.

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#118395 - 02/04/19 06:19 AM Re: The 600 Club State OF The Union [Re: samowens84]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 234
Loc: High Peak, UK
A couple of weeks away & you're still spouting the same old dribble!

I do sort of get it that you are like most other addicts in that to overcome one addiction you replace it with another; problem is that your previous one only fucked with you & your "loved ones" but this one fills every topic of this forum with anecdotes of how wondeful you are.

Anyway.............

 Originally Posted By: samowens84


And no, I'm not worried about my family because the universe will fuck anyone over who gets close to them, so I'm not worried.



You & I both know this statement not to be true; if it were the Universe would have fucked you so many times you would be a little more than worried.

Why the need for all pseudo-intellectual analising? The rules of the game are very simple.

Think about the consequences of your actions & if you can live with those consequences then do whatever you need to get what you want.......simple!

Though don't worry about the consequences too much because if you do fuck up your brain will write you a nice script that will validate your position & justify your actions which, within a short space of time, will become the truth.


Edited by when7iseleven (02/04/19 06:20 AM)
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