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#112703 - 05/08/17 01:06 AM Satan The MGTOW
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
It has come to a boiling point. With the systematic wielding of geaynocentrism, the institutional standard of feminist indoctrination throughout school and workforce, men are beginning to see a new light:

The fall of Lucifer, the rise of Satan.

Men Going Their Own Way. A spit in the face to the outrageous expectations of women, work, and society in general.

Much as The Devil spit in the face of heavenly authority, the white knighting of other angels and god himself, MGTOW is one in the same.

Perhaps a new dawn of true Satanism? Even most Satanism seems to revere the power of spread-legged women, indulging female validation as if it were a strength to behold. Yet MGTOW would see this being a weakness in men allowing themselves to be used instead of building the backbone to tread The Devil's path.

To accept kneeling to women, when nature dictates the other way around.

To bow down to false promise of a whole society that would spite a man for living on his own terms first and foremost.

Perhaps Satanism has gotten a new spark of life after all.

Does MGTOW have grounds to call itself Satanic?

While women are revered in Satanism and is generally not the case in MGTOW, they share a similarity in upholding self-aprehended validation over the external. More over, if it were associated with Satanism, would it even make a difference? MGTOW already experience a great deal of backlash being called selfish, hateful, sexist, full of losers.

Demonized, outright through and through. Yet this philosophy is growing in recognition and practice amongst men, especially in western civilization.

Abstaining from women and living past the sex drive would seem like traditional christian sexual repression over Satanic indulgence, yet MGTOW are generally anti-trantitionalist.

While most MGTOW don't care any-more about women, some remain convinced and recognise a natural dynamic between men and women that is simply non-obtainable in our current state of affairs.

One could say understanding MGTOW would help for one to better apprehend Satanism.

As it is, The Devil single handedly apprehended his own right to self, spit in the face of those frowning upon him, and went his own way, and he took no wench.
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#112706 - 05/08/17 07:37 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3329
It seems the women's movement is your petpeeve.
Everyone walks their own road. That's a given when it concerns the LHP.

There's no need for you to call-in gender biasis. No one gives a fuck.

If you find yourself kneeling to another, the problem isn't with the world. It will be you.

Now, would you be so kind to stop whining about women and how others supposedly bend their ways for it? Satanism does not bow down to women or men. That's reserved for the slaves..
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#112707 - 05/08/17 08:19 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2099
Loc: Poland
Me thinks you're trying too hard to project your social awkwardness onto other men. Many of them, including the dominant types, have successful relationships with women and don't end up exploited. Just because you are unable to have your way with females, it doesn't mean that all other males have the same problems.

As I wrote in response to your other post, if you don't want to have anything to do with women, then simply go and live without them. Nobody can force you to engage in relationships. Plenty of people are single, some can even live with without regular sex. Do whatever you want to do. There is no need for perpetual whining, like it is in your case.

And one more thing, naked menstruating women don't serve as altars. That would be awkward and highly impractical. I know where you took that from but ffs man don't read so many fairy tales. It'd bad for your brain.


Edited by Czereda (05/08/17 08:28 AM)
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#112720 - 05/09/17 01:12 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
@ CZ & DI: Methinks the phrase is over-abused. Methinks that the whining of the two of you whining about how I am supposedly whining while not even addressing a single one of my points has come down to habitual squabbling on your part.

 Quote:
There's no need for you to call-in gender biasis. No one gives a fuck.


You know I kind of hoped you'd say that. I don't make the news (do I?) I just report it.

Fact is you and a few others following me around the forum auto-disagreeing to every post I make doesn't show much of anything except a compulsion on your part.

I've been replying to everyone making their points. That's why the subject continues. Conversation continues. That 'ol gender equality thread has pages filled by many more than I alone.

But hey, it seems to be keeping your interest one way or another.

 Quote:
Satanism does not bow down to women or men. That's reserved for the slaves..


Good point. Both share a mutual understanding of self commitment.

 Quote:
If you find yourself kneeling to another, the problem isn't with the world. It will be you.


Indeed.

 Originally Posted By: CZ
Many of them, including the dominant types, have successful relationships with women and don't end up exploited.


I'm sure there are a few out there, but ultimately society pushes for men and women to have relationships, but has this seething disgust for men who choose not to do so. When looking into MGTOW, you see a whole other side to the equation that most people generally turn away from, not because its illogical, but uncomfortable, too challenging for most, thus demonized.

I once said on that gender equality thread in which I see little difference in men and women. So I'll acknowledge something here: There are probably more guys being played than both men themselves and their female counterparts would like to admit and that women know more than men about what they are getting into. This is mostly because I think both believe they must have a relationship to survive.

Both sexes are certainly gullible, easily manipulated. In that sense they are very much equal.

 Quote:
Nobody can force you to engage in relationships. Plenty of people are single, some can even live with without regular sex. Do whatever you want to do.


Sound advice.

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There is no need for perpetual whining, like it is in your case.


Really?

 Quote:
I know where you took that from but ffs man don't read so many fairy tales. It'd bad for your brain.


Found it in a book called Lucifer Rising. Its a Chronical of varying views, groups, faces places and events throughout the history of American Satanism. Its OK.
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#112722 - 05/09/17 02:15 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3329
You've been going on about genders for some time now.
Your rebuttals have always been in a sense of men vs women and how unfair males have it.

I said it before and will repeat it again. If you really support "going their own way", then by all means... "go your own way".
The premise is simple. Why don't you get your own words and ideas you support?
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#112723 - 05/09/17 02:50 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
If any of us were to be brutally honest there is no greater Devil figure in 2017 United States culture than the heterosexual white male.

In fact, simply making the above statement in most circles will instantly prove that you are a card carrying member of the KKK and you are branded with the scarlet letters of R (racist) and S (sexist).

While I do think that the true heretics of our time are able to see through the smoke and mirrors and call a spade a spade (no pun) I do not see this as exclusively Satanic. I can see some Satanic elements. For instance, a Black Mass could be a mockery of anything that is held as sacred in the popular culture. There would be so many to pick from if they all didn't run to their safe spaces. Hell, a Black Mass could be an unsafe space.

That said, could a member of MGTOW be a Satanist? Absolutely. But is Satanism defined by MGTOW? No.

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#112731 - 05/09/17 01:53 PM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: LoneWolf78]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
That said, could a member of MGTOW be a Satanist? Absolutely. But is Satanism defined by MGTOW? No.


Depends wherein lies your chosen definition. If you're speaking LaVey, sure, 'Satanism' as a new cultural foundation was his coined by him.

However, Satan was a thing chosen by LaVey for specific reasons, and The Devil as it is defined himself by the very act of going solo.

To this day I am accused of being Satanic for questioning the common thought, which is why I believe LaVey chose 'Satanism' as a kind of joke, where people who do no harm are yet called 'satanic' for questioning authority and popular belief.

Going your own way does in fact mean going solo, choosing yourself before choosing a group to blend in with.

MGTOW are communicating on many subjects. Their goal seems to talk about unpopular truths, such as the darker side of human nature, alternative philosophy and realistic approach to life as a whole. Not only female nature, but men to. They focus on all realms being historical, contemporary, futuristic, and look closely into scientific resources and picking out the misrepresentation of popular claims on research data.

I've always had an eye open to better understand alternative thought, which is what brought me to Satnaism and MGTOW. From what I can see, Satanism on a whole seems a little bit more refined than many others in terms of hitting the mark where it counts.
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#112744 - 05/10/17 04:41 PM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 435
I agree with what you have said here.

Let me clarify a bit if I may.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
From what I can see, Satanism on a whole seems a little bit more refined than many others in terms of hitting the mark where it counts.


This is what I meant.

What I am saying is that Satanism is more refined and not only in one area. In many different areas. I do agree with your point that going your own way and questioning authority is indeed Satanic. However, this group MGTOW only seems to be concerned with gender issues whereas Satanism covers a wide variety of topics individuality of course being key, but gender issues and sex issues only being a couple of areas.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

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#112756 - 05/11/17 02:09 PM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3329
"Satanic" doesn't automatically imply the "-ism".
Alternative thought is just that, alternative thought.
It isn't as different as the other talk going on.

Everyone can be "Satanic".
Quite a few discussions here made mention how current society became "Satanic" in nature.

Here's the whole subtle point. Many a-thing can be considered as "Satanic" but for it to be called "Satanism" implies inherent character. There's a reason why "Satanists" are so rare.
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#112779 - 05/12/17 10:48 PM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1252
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Methinks that the whining of the two of you whining about how I am supposedly whining while not even addressing a single one of my points has come down to habitual squabbling on your part.

Even as an English major, methinks the use of "methinks" is ridiculous. Whenever you say "methinks," all I hear is:



Also, what points? You made no points whatsoever. You made bare assertions, which amounted to repeating the same four things over and over:

MGTOW rules
Women drool
MGTOW is like Satanism
... but better!

 Quote:
Fact is you and a few others following me around the forum auto-disagreeing to every post I make doesn't show much of anything except a compulsion on your part.

What does your MGTOW-on-repeat posting say about you?

 Originally Posted By: CN
I'm sure there are a few out there, but ultimately society pushes for men and women to have relationships, but has this seething disgust for men who choose not to do so.

Requesting sauce for this.
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#112780 - 05/12/17 11:42 PM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
We live in a culture where much of ones' social status and sense of worth is bound up in having sexual partners, getting hitched, having kids, and so on--so when someone consciously and explicitly rejects such a prominent pillar of normalcy, it cannot help but evoke the Satanic in some way.

Heck, all sense of rebellion aside, taking a time-out from chasing partners to focus on self-improvement is just plain-old good psychological self-help.

However, I get a sense that focusing on the perceived wrongs of "gynocentrism" could possibly lead to the creation of a rather convenient bugaboo--a new Devil to project their own inadequacies and sense of victimization upon. Or, indeed, the same old Devil we know and love--the recent "Playboy" article in the Satanism forum touches on the all-too familiar theme of the demonization of feminine power, which has been the target of male fear and fascination for centuries. In such a case, one might end up just as schizoid as your worst-case Christian--without, unfortunately, the analgesic of eschatology to dull the malaise of their worldly sufferings.

On a more mundane level, the state of gender relations seems more complicated than the misogyny-or-misandry Manicheanism pushed by gender separatists of both feminist and meninist camps. Like others here have suggested, most people can get through life conventionally without having a psychological "breaking point" over reactionary gender-based grievances.

But moving back to the question of Satanism, I have always felt that if the "Left Hand Path" has any value at all as a spiritual/psychological tool, it is best used as a scalpel to cut off your own defects. Styling yourself as a rebel is easy, especially in our contemporary society which has become a mess of self-victimized interest groups where nearly everybody wants to be the poor oppressed and marginalized faction fighting valiantly against The Powers That Be (tm). But whether it's the Satanic Temple mocking religious conservatism, or LaVey heaping scorn upon hippies, a "Black Mass" where one simply rehearses their own prejudices is merely the RHP dyed black.

So lashing out at any number of external enemies is gratifying and seductively easy, but evaluating the limitations of your own psyche and breaking through them is where the real Opus Magnum begins, I think. The mileage varies from person to person, since we all have different cultural influences and unique personal hangups. So if "going your own way" helps shake ones' mind out of a rut, great--but even the red pill is still a pill, and getting "woke" could just as well be another dream ala "Inception" or a poorly-written horror movie.

 Quote:
As it is, The Devil single handedly apprehended his own right to self, spit in the face of those frowning upon him, and went his own way, and he took no wench.


Lilith might disagree with you on that one. Satan--not unlike some men--seems quite happy to take the bottom role once the right sort of dominant woman comes along. ;\)


Edited by The Zebu (05/13/17 12:19 AM)
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#112784 - 05/13/17 01:54 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: The Zebu]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Even as an English major, methinks the use of "methinks" is ridiculous. Whenever you say "methinks," all I hear is:




Nice face reveal there.

Methinks you need to read more. My use was in mockery of the other posters who so frequenly use the term.

 Quote:
Also, what points? You made no points whatsoever.


Find a mirror.


 Quote:
MGTOW is like Satanism
... but better!

What does your MGTOW-on-repeat posting say about you?



Any post where I mention those dreaded letters MGTOW, here you come, and with such insight.

I could set a watch on it.


I mean, if I had more posts like Zebu's there might be a little bit more substantial development of substance in our communications.

Like I said, raising the bar doesn't hurt once in a while.

 Quote:
Requesting sauce for this.


Maybe later. For now: Denied.

Zebu has given me my own sauce for the time being:


 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
However, I get a sense that focusing on the perceived wrongs of "gynocentrism" could possibly lead to the creation of a rather convenient bugaboo--a new Devil to project their own inadequacies and sense of victimization upon. Or, indeed, the same old Devil we know and love--the recent "Playboy" article in the Satanism forum touches on the all-too familiar theme of the demonization of feminine power, which has been the target of male fear and fascination for centuries.


Any information could be used as a whining banner when aimed through that scope. Rational concern lies in the evidence. The Devil is after all, in the details.

 Quote:
On a more mundane level, the state of gender relations seems more complicated than the misogyny-or-misandry Manicheanism pushed by gender separatists of both feminist and meninist camps.

So if "going your own way" helps shake ones' mind out of a rut, great--but even the red pill is still a pill, and getting "woke" could just as well be another dream ala "Inception" or a poorly-written horror movie.


In light of this, I'll add another pill to the dosage: The Grey Pill. One could call it a dullified blue pill, or an over-dose of red and blue. Pointing the finger at both sides to make yourself seem intelligent in the light of two arguing sides, while doing little to nothing in weighing the information to benifit your own conclusion. I have one judgement of such habitual retardation:

Pathetic.

I don't accuse you of it here, I just wanted to elaborate on my own point so you know where I stand..

 Quote:
Like others here have suggested, most people can get through life conventionally without having a psychological "breaking point" over reactionary gender-based grievances.


That all depends on this:

 Quote:
the "Left Hand Path" has any value at all as a spiritual/psychological tool, it is best used as a scalpel to cut off your own defects... evaluating the limitations of your own psyche and breaking through them is where the real Opus Magnum begins, I think. The mileage varies from person to person, since we all have different cultural influences and unique personal hangups.


My angle here is as follows: If you find it comfortable, it probably isn't a challenge.

MGTOW is not popular amongst men and women because it is not comfortable. Men going solo means women would have to do the same. Most men don't want to, it goes against what we are fed about self-validating through female validation.

Going against the programming is hard. I think a lot of people do have these extreme reactions to gender and even self ownership. I'll even go so far as to say our society promotes the opposite of self ownership.

 Quote:
Lilith might disagree with you on that one. Satan--not unlike some men--seems quite happy to take the bottom role once the right sort of dominant woman comes along.


I've never read that she was actually the wife of Satan.

Let's take a look at Faust (from the lilith wiki page)



Faust:
Who's that there?

Mephistopheles:
Take a good look.
Lilith.

Faust:
Lilith? Who is that?

Mephistopheles:
Adam's wife, his first. Beware of her.
Her beauty's one boast is her dangerous hair.
When Lilith winds it tight around young men
She doesn't soon let go of them again.

(1992 Greenberg translation, lines 4206–4211)

After Mephistopheles offers this warning to Faust, he then, quite ironically, encourages Faust to dance with "the Pretty Witch". Lilith and Faust engage in a short dialogue, where Lilith recounts the days spent in Eden.

Faust: [dancing with the young witch]
A lovely dream I dreamt one day
I saw a green-leaved apple tree,
Two apples swayed upon a stem,
So tempting! I climbed up for them.

The Pretty Witch:
Ever since the days of Eden
Apples have been man's desire.
How overjoyed I am to think, sir,
Apples grow, too, in my garden.


We see here again the Devil is a man, and the succubus is just that, a thing that leeches off the presented sustenance of a man, in this case a male figure, Satan (Satan being the male provider, the provided man being her desired consumption). She is but the madam of the brothel, not the queen, and even if she was, she's still only a secondary figurehead, dependent throughout.

Devil's lesson be: It is the man who feeds the beast.

Why doesn't Faust just say no? Of course, if he did, he'd only be that much closer to doing as Satan did himself. A temptation awaits no matter the angle.

A tricky one that Devil.
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#112790 - 05/13/17 11:26 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1252
Loc: Austin, TX
Thing is, CN, you're not "going your own way." You're not going anywhere. You're standing in the same spot, saying over and over again that you're going to go your own way. But you're not actually going until you're satisfied that your departure will be properly acknowledged.

You're still hung up on what women think of you. It's just that now, instead of wanting them to like you, you want them to revile you for bucking their approval. You're a little disappointed by the general "meh" you received instead, so you return and howl and beat your chest a little more to try to stir up more of a reaction.
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#112792 - 05/13/17 12:04 PM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: Creatura Noptii]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
I don't accuse you of it here, I just wanted to elaborate on my own point so you know where I stand..


I like to prod at opposite ends of the spectrum, but mostly because here I'm more interested in looking at the social implications of such a practice, rather than bare-knuckled tussling to justify a political opinion--Which is, that I think MGTOW is ultimately based off a faulty perception of female preeminence, and makes overbroad generalizations about modern relationships and sexual dynamics underpinned by a curious mishmash of social frustration and chauvinist tropes. But if you would like to have a go at this angle, I'm all game. \:D

My general point regards the observation you seem to make about MGTOW being some revolutionary new philosophy that somehow points towards a "true Satanism" for men in general, whereas it seems to me more like a fringe movement which would only be relevant to a small subset of socially-atypical men who feel troubled by gender relations. And though some 'adversarial' dimensions can be gleaned from the phenomenon, deliberately doing something uncomfortable and unpopular isn't always liberating or conducive to independence, especially if it hinges on the perception of Woman as some sort of meta-being before whom Man can only either subjugate themselves under or sever themselves from.

On the mythological side of things....

 Quote:
I've never read that she was actually the wife of Satan.


Lilith took multiple husbands--Adam, Satan, Asmodeus... and even God himself, if certain pessimistic Jewish writings are to be believed, as described in Patai's "The Hebrew Goddess", which also elaborates:

"The ancient ones explained that there are two Liliths, one little and one great. The great one is the spouse of Samael, and she is a woman of harlotry, and the little one is the spouse of Ashmodai. And about this Lilith, the bride of Samael, the Geonim explained the she controls 480 legions as is the numerical value of her name."

Let us also not forget Azazel and the Grigori, who according to Enoch 6, said "Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children."

And if we are to invoke the idea of the succubus, it bears mentioning that according to the lore in question, demons do not have fixed genders, and Satan could and did take the form of a succubus to please male witches. Many of those same sources also mention female witches being married to devil in rites of "unholy matrimony", as it were. (Specific references may be found in nearly any of the Renaissance anti-witchcraft manuals.)

Outside of esoterica, the concept of "the Devil's Dam" is one with broad cultural currency. In light of this, the the utility of Satan as a character relevant to the rejection of female relations rests on rather uneasy ground.


Edited by The Zebu (05/13/17 12:17 PM)
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#112799 - 05/15/17 02:33 AM Re: Satan The MGTOW [Re: The Zebu]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
XG: Not sure what you mean by 'acknowledge departure.' I never intended for anyone to believe my interest in MGTOW was a goodbye to this forum, or Satanism. If that was your interpretation, perhaps you'd refer to my post above to LoneWolf on the matter. This isn't so much a case of physical departure, but rather, a psychological reconditioning. Re-prioritising, if you will.

You may assume what you want, I cannot control your mind. In some way, I do care what women think, as I'm replying to you now. This has little to do however with a need for greater female sexual validation. Being in a relationship for me has always felt like I was a woman's father figure that she liked having sex with. I see women treating sex like dogs treat food. You see, while I savour the taste of the food, dogs gulp it down in a flinch. I think women get more pleasure in a psychological emotional, or socially validating way than an overall biological catharsis, as is the case with men. Since women have notable difference in their overall interests, and since I find the majority of women quite immature and of limited insight, I have decided it is then in my best interest to cease all pursuit of female commitment. It is not chest beating as you say, but rather, self-refinement.

As Zebu also points out, I'm only here to discuss the matter. MGTOW has been a topic of interest for me, and I thought I'd make a thread on it so as to discuss the matter in one place. Since I found striking similarities between MGTOW and Satanism, I decided the topic at hand would benefit from a comparison of the two.

Zebu: It seems to me you think I've over-credited MGTOW. This has likely been around for thousands of years. The social economic and psychological state of people and relationships has merely shined light on the benefits and reasoning of its philosophy.

You seem to believe MGTOW has less value than it presents. Do you believe men have nothing to gain from leaving women and so called 'plantation life?' You make claims that its only taken up by ill-socialized men who are afraid of commitment. Perhaps you could elaborate for a better understanding.

As per Lilith, I presented the bit from Faust as a counterpoint to your claim of Lilith being a dominating female figure. As a mythological character her powers are notable, but I would not say that her marriage to other demons, especially Satan gives her dominion over them. The a-sexual nature of mythological demons is neither here nor there in this context, and again, backfires on your own argument of a what you yourself referred to as "a dominate woman."
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