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#113483 - 07/16/17 02:20 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
 Originally Posted By: Aquino
Self-reliance is one concept; Satanism is another.

Yes, but its the starting point, and the endpoint.

No, one can be self-reliant without acknowledging Satan. Indeed one can be SR in any religion or absence of one.

What we also gradually realized in the 1966-75 Church of Satan was that merely asserting SR - what Anton termed "Indulgence" - is, without exploration and enhancement of the self, mere hedonism. That stasis is not the dynamic of Satanism, which constitutes evolution into SU divinity, i.e. absolute freedom from OU natural law.

That in itself is not the most problematic task - i.e. asserting the prerogatives of Nietzsche's ‹bermensch. The greater challenge is the consequent individual responsibility for both purpose and morality.

As long as K comes up, there is a pretty good illustration of this crisis at the end of 2001, where the human Dave Bowman has evolved into the "star child". But that's where both K's film and Clarke's book stop, because neither knew what to do next.

Clarke later tried 2010, but still couldn't grapple with the problem. MetaDave could think of nothing better to do than give the Solar System a second sun.

The challenge of personal divinity is not just to attain it, but to exercise it. Though it's perfectly possible to be a wanton sort of god, as one runs into in HPL's stories.

Hence affirming oneself a Satanist, if one really takes the term seriously, is not just "dress-up hedonism", unless you want to be perceived as nothing more than that.
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#113486 - 07/16/17 02:58 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 751
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: MAA
No, one can be self-reliant without acknowledging Satan.


True. Though regardless of acknowledgement, the action remains. Even from the bible-babble stand ponit, Satan defied for the sake of self-reliance, and he wasn't a sucker.

He's a symbol that articulates a way of being. Its entirely based on human traits of scrutiny, self-reliance and defiance.

Worshipping Satan as a symbol is unbecoming. As LaVey said in so many words, a Satanist does not worship The Big D., he becomes one.
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#113487 - 07/16/17 04:02 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3125
Acknowledging Satan as what exactly? As a concept? Metaphysical being? Ego? ...? I see hollow statements there.

A mind forged and thriving on constant challenge, conflict and comparison cannot contrive the spirit and mind to be something else. It is not surprise there can only be a strive to be "higher" but no actual idea what to do once achieved (except to look for the next best fad to conquer).

Its a situation "only gods know". Even Satan in his popular story failed to understand that simple premise which ultimately lead to his downfall.

What makes the The Satanist is nothing more than always trying to be at its best without strings attached. Comparison falls short and only suits short-term achievements without further gain.


Edited by Dimitri (07/16/17 04:03 AM)
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#113489 - 07/16/17 06:54 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Ho- fucking- lee shit, talk about falling right in line.


Right? And all of that in the thread about Satanism as an "adversarial fire of defiance and self-autonomy." It's only the internet but it can often show you funny things re human behavior. You will see more of it so I warn you: log off before all your romanticism gets shattered and you will become an in incurable cynic.

I mean no offence but this topic is like a dead horse. Every idiot already knows that Satanism is about self-reliance, defiance, autonomy of the Self, independence blah blah blah. It would be more worthwile to talk about the obstacles in your way.

No matter the label one is attached to, humans are tribal animals, naturally programmed to conform. Falling in line is not so much social programming as a deeply rooted natural mechanism of self-preservation. Regardless of all our wishful thinking, we depend on each other for survival, we did even more in the past. Resisting this comes with punishment from "God", Nature itself. If you consider Milton's Satan, he largely engages in self-destructive behavior. He's full of pain, frustration and suffering to the point he weeps when he sees Paradise.

A metaphorical Hell is a place of eternal alienation. Few are willing to pay the price.
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#113492 - 07/16/17 05:45 PM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Acknowledging Satan as what exactly? As a concept? Metaphysical being? Ego? ...? I see hollow statements there.

A mind forged and thriving on constant challenge, conflict and comparison cannot contrive the spirit and mind to be something else. It is not surprise there can only be a strive to be "higher" but no actual idea what to do once achieved (except to look for the next best fad to conquer).

Its a situation "only gods know". Even Satan in his popular story failed to understand that simple premise which ultimately lead to his downfall.

What makes the The Satanist is nothing more than always trying to be at its best without strings attached. Comparison falls short and only suits short-term achievements without further gain.

Superbly thought and said. "Satan" is the "Platonic Form" which enables articulation of each individual's divine prerogative. But affirmation is meaningless, and perhaps nonexistent, until it is expressed through impression or action on externalities. You know you exist by "doing something", so to speak. Your divine prerogative is that you have complete discreation in this; you are not the mere puppet of OU-forces. Nietzsche referred to this capacity as "horizon-building" [beyond the extant].
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#113569 - 07/21/17 01:40 PM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 751
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
log off before all your romanticism gets shattered and you will become an in incurable cynic.


Strangely enough, that seems to be the way of the world, Satanism or no. Welcome to the bitterwebs.

 Originally Posted By: CZ
I mean no offence but this topic is like a dead horse.


Oh come on, no need to apologize, that's what we do here. We resurrect the dead fucker and beat him back down again. What fun would there be without old faithful the zombie horse?

 Originally Posted By: CZ
Every idiot already knows that Satanism is about self-reliance, defiance, autonomy of the Self, independence blah blah blah. It would be more worthwile to talk about the obstacles in your way.


Incurable indeed, it sure was enough to get a whole three paragraphs out of you, no?

 Quote:
No matter the label one is attached to, humans are tribal animals, naturally programmed to conform. Falling in line is not so much social programming as a deeply rooted natural mechanism of self-preservation. Regardless of all our wishful thinking, we depend on each other for survival,


Hence my conclusion of self reliance.

 Originally Posted By: CZ
we did even more in the past.


I don't think its changed a whole lot.

 Quote:
Resisting this comes with punishment from "God", Nature itself.


There's always a challenge from nature, no matter who's hangin' around.

 Originally Posted By: CZ
A metaphorical Hell is a place of eternal alienation. Few are willing to pay the price.


I get you, but in a way you can still be alone even around a bunch of people. Sometimes that's the best situation to find out how lonely the world really is.

One who can enjoy their own company is a master of living well.
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Creatură Nopții

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#113570 - 07/21/17 03:33 PM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1793
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
One who can enjoy their own company is a master of living well.


Indeed. Socializing is sometimes a form of escapism. Those who can't bear their own company often seek the company of other people only to deafen the annoying, if not threatening, chattering of their own minds.
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Anna Czereda
O9A Meme Cat

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#113577 - 07/22/17 12:33 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 253
You see... hollow statements about ego? Have you broken all your mirrors? Anyways, everything is not that bad. That you're pulling Satan down with you doesn't mean there's a downfall. You know what's the first thing I'd do once my goals were achieved? Kick you in the ass.
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#113587 - 07/22/17 08:37 PM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 751
Loc: Oregon
@Aquino: Sure one can do without the label, but the label isn't important. Self-sufficiency comes in many forms, the Satanic is one apprehended through wilful opposition.

@Czereda: The human mind is hard to dial down once clicked on, that's why its important to have focus, quiet, and escape. Generally its good to socialize if and when the urge comes, but many can't be alone without a sense of extreme anxiety. Having a self-rewarding activity is important. When people don't have something to keep their attention they tend to get anxious. If that doesn't work, the only other option I know is 'quiet-time.'

When I go into the wilderness high and away from people, no matter what time of year, it has the same effect.

Just the sound of the trees and nothing else.

Society is insane.
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#113600 - 07/24/17 04:40 PM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino


What we also gradually realized in the 1966-75 Church of Satan was that merely asserting SR - what Anton termed "Indulgence" - is, without exploration and enhancement of the self, mere hedonism. That stasis is not the dynamic of Satanism, which constitutes evolution into SU divinity, i.e. absolute freedom from OU natural law.


Mere Hedonism? I think it goes without saying that the Satanist can discern the difference. Take drug-use for example. The CoS takes a public face of 'poison the body, poison the mind' (hoping others adopt it, or at least believe it). The Satanist knows the difference between enjoyment without shame, and stroking a weakness of addiction. Addiction would then represent stasis. And I don't think anyone here is making proclamations of godhood without a continual practice. Eh? Again, are you writing this for children or what?
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#113841 - 08/11/17 08:30 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: SIN3]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
So just how loaded are you right now SIN3?
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#113846 - 08/11/17 09:29 AM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: 97and107]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
When you have something to contribute to the conversation, you let me know. If you disagree with my post, tell me why.
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#113875 - 08/12/17 07:30 PM Re: What Makes The Satanist [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 253
Well, that was just a simple question. Anyway, I find it difficult to realise the difference between enjoyment without shame and weakness of addiction. I am now strongly making proclamations of godhood without a continual practice.
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