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#113614 - 07/25/17 02:19 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
They don't mince words about it. The jump to Eugenics is fuzzy logic.

As I said above, there aren't really words for it to be minced. You'd call it "gentrification," but that's not a very specific term.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Even if there's more of an uproar for sterilizing women, it appears the real threat is a newly released sperm gun.

If the sperm gun were firing kiddos out of his crotch, I'd agree. But The Sperminator isn't going to impregnate a woman who's had her tubes tied or who has LARC.

I think the women are the primary threat. They are the limiting factor in reproduction. If one wants to slow it down, start with the slowest step in the assembly line.
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#113615 - 07/25/17 02:25 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
entropicmomentum Offline
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Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
Crusade? Whatchu talkin bout, Willis?

Sure, classical eugenics is shit, so I guess if you want to limit your definitions that sounds totally logical. And yes I realize I misused the term "positive eugenics".

I get that this case is about economics, but I don't think eugenics and economics are necessarily mutually exclusive.
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#113617 - 07/25/17 05:45 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
I am not pro-choice. I am pro eugenics. This is fucking awesome.


You planted that seed in your OP. I was speaking on the economic factors that play out, when inmates are released.

I've implied that men are the real threat because they are offered vasectomies for a 30 day shave off. Whereas women can resume breeding after a 4 year stint on a contraception device.

It's a carrot to chase... Freedom.

Gentrification is specific, especially as it pertains to the standard. Not many inmates are lucky enough to get decent housing upon release. They end up in over-crowded half-way houses and find ways to blow off steam. Like fuck.

Only this way, it won't result in a child while caution is thrown to the wind. Besides, it's voluntary not forced. Inmates can opt out, especially if they envision a family for themselves in the future.
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#113618 - 07/25/17 05:47 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: entropicmomentum]
Creatura Noptii Online
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 823
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
But The Sperminator isn't going to impregnate a woman who's had her tubes tied or who has LARC... I think the women are the primary threat. They are the limiting factor in reproduction.


Its men who need to get control of their junk. Pretty soon men are going to have a long lasting form of birth inhibitor called Vasalgel. Giving men the upper hand in contraception won't only prevent pregnancy, but the silly deception of their female counterparts that come in the way of false claims and sperm jacking. Not an option if the guy shoots blanks.

and then this:

 Originally Posted By: XG
I don't really have a term for what it is I'd like to see... I'm not terribly concerned with what went wrong... I want to fix the problem, not nit pick about the cause.


Unbelivihilaridiculous.

 Originally Posted By: EPM
Sure, classical eugenics is shit


Its all shit.

 Originally Posted By: EMP
but I don't think eugenics and economics are necessarily mutually exclusive.


... They are completely different things, but yes, monetary class and other racial factors often tie in together, but they aren't always eugenics. Racism plays a factor, but the thing itself is classified as false information presented as consensus fact in order to control, limit, or remove so called 'undesirables.'

Your talking racism, which plays a part. Ultimately people find ways to conflict, eugenics or no. This has to do with the fact that the human brain is hard wired to cognate personal social identity with survival. Again, what is practised isn't always acknowledged, let alone challenged or re-wired. Social conditioning, for better or ill, relies on this kind of inhibited understanding of self and human nature as a whole.

Broadening terms like Eugenics takes away important understanding of what it is, why its flawed, and how it happens. People believe authority, and acknowledge information from that authority as fact, just because say, its in a text book, or since the classroom teacher says so, it must be true. That's a good chunk of how Eugenics spread, but also the fact that people had had racist beliefs which are a product of cultural upbringing. Point is, once an idea gets rationalized, it is at the same time justified, be it a sound idea, or bat-shit.

People generally don't talk to anyone outside their social designation. The rich, middle and poor classes resent each other. This is human behaviour people overlook because they are too busy reacting to notice.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Besides, it's voluntary not forced. Inmates can opt out, especially if they envision a family for themselves in the future.


The whole point is that its optional, but seriously, what's the overall impact? The idiots are taking over, and the majority are reproducing outside prison walls. The whole thing is just click-bait.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (07/25/17 06:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Edits
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#113622 - 07/26/17 01:15 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Not bad. Something to actually stand behind.

On the long term it might provide an improvement for society.
Although I have my doubts about serial offenders.

Junkies remain junkies. They can always fall back to their drug if they got off by doing a mere vasectomy. Psychological guiding would be more effective. The vasectomy merely lowers the risk of having children (who might be born in a toxic and self-destructive situation). In a certain sense it is a bit eugenics... if you consider the normies the better genes that is..

Could make a case about rapists. But there the act has more to do about power than the act itself. Even so, serial rapists will merely have reduced sentences. Here's to hoping that was taken into account.

And what about the other cases? Fathers who couldn't pay alimony? I don't see this helping their case. Abusive men and women.

All could profit from reduced sentences.
There's a nice first step. Merely hoping there are stipulations so it doesn't become FFA.
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#113623 - 07/26/17 11:48 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: V


The whole point is that its optional, but seriously, what's the overall impact? The idiots are taking over, and the majority are reproducing outside prison walls. The whole thing is just click-bait.


Right, which is why I said there's really nothing there to celebrate. Idiots tend to make idiotic decisions for themselves. So when given the option, they may choose to opt out. You know how uppity some people can get. "Who do they think they are!" Then they opt out, for the rebel's cause alone.

The wall doesn't matter. The thing is, either you can navigate among idiots or you can't. The world hasn't changed a bit since the day I was born. I tend not to lean on some utopian fix for our society. I just go on each day, with the knowledge that other people are not my concern. Doesn't mean we don't encounter them or have to suffer them. To believe however, that if the government would just do [fill in the blank] then life would be better... Is the bait.
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#113624 - 07/26/17 04:32 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 71
Loc: East Coast USA
It's not just what "the government" is doing.

I saw this segment on VICE News this morning about a private non-profit offering cash to addicts for using birth control or getting sterilized.

Check out the SJWs supporting an addict's choice to have as many children as she chooses because the drugs used during pregnancy don't do lasting harm to the babies. Of course, no mention is made about what happens to a baby born to an addict who can't even care for herself at the time of the birth. If an addict has already had 7 children, how many more should Joe and Mary Taxpayer be willing to support?
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#113626 - 07/26/17 05:44 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I tend not to lean on some utopian fix for our society. I just go on each day, with the knowledge that other people are not my concern. Doesn't mean we don't encounter them or have to suffer them. To believe however, that if the government would just do [fill in the blank] then life would be better... Is the bait.

I can see trashing me for the improper use of "eugenics," but this has me wondering where the heck this came from.

I'm not holding my breath for any permanent/ large-scale solutions to shit. I just get a bit giddy when I see something I like. It's the simple pleasures.

I'm not concerned about making the world a better place. I'm just loving the idea that somewhere, at least one GangBang McGee is getting his shit snipped.
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#113628 - 07/26/17 05:57 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
I'm not trashing you V, really I'm not. I'm just elaborating on why I don't see what's to get giddy over. Especially since it's optional. No more happy-dance worthy than the general practice of sterilization. The Proletariat breeds like rabbits, always has. Even more so when they are on the verge of starvation. Look at any third world armpit and their habits.

I suppose, it would be a pleasure to see more people use their brains instead of falling subject to their impulses. I guess we'll see how that turns out when the stats are in at the end of the Quarter eh?
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#113629 - 07/26/17 06:04 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Kori Houghton]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
It's not just what "the government" is doing.


Believe me I know. I figure if people want to privately fund junkies and their kids, they must derive some personal pleasure from it. Philanthropists get their rocks off in ways I'll never understand. As for the long haul, I don't think it makes much of a difference who pays for it, there will always be a percentage of the population that's parasitic.

If we cared enough about tax theft, we'd find a tax shelter, keep money under the mattress, or move. The U.S. has one of the highest rates in the world.

That's why all the Dems and their kin are screaming that the sky is falling because Republicans are starting to remember what fiscal conservatism actually is.

I guess it's easier to just blame Trump for everything, he can be the new Hitler and they don't have to use their brains.

Rinse and Repeat.
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#113635 - 07/27/17 03:17 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 268
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
Not necessarily something I would advocate for, but if you want to stop junkies from having babies, instead of waiting for them to go to prison, just offer the vasectomy or tubal ligation in exchange for a couple of hits! (They give clean needles etc out at those safe house things.) They'd be lining up! Hell, if you offered to juice their spouse as well they would be dragging each other in.

Then, phase 2, after they have been neutered, you could have a baby-buy-back scheme where they get to sell their babies to adoptive parents for drugs. Or rent them to them on yearly contracts.

That way it wouldn't even be the government dictating the outcome, but would be left to individuals to volunteer themselves for the program. If you chuck them through a couple of counselling sessions on the way through, you might even side-step the ethics conundrum.
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#113639 - 07/27/17 11:51 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
People act as if the offer alone will get it done. It won't. Junkies get rather uppity about even suggesting they be sterilized.

I have first hand-knowledge of this. The offer didn't stop a single junkie in my 'family' from breeding. In fact, they just had more kids in protest. People are advocating for *forced* sterilization because people are tired of carrying the dead weight, figuring out what to do with these kids that end up in the system (if they even make it there) and funding programs for 'recovery'.
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#113641 - 07/27/17 03:49 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
 
 Quote:
As a lawyer:

(1) The ACLU is correct; this is in flagrant violation of a huge bulk of SCOTUS precedent, and

(2) Fucking yes, I wish every county would follow suit. Fuck the fucking constitution, this is beautiful.

I especially like Benningfield's gamesmanship about helping them get their lives back together. Glorious way to disguise this gutter scraping as compassion.

I'm vaguely peeved that PP & company are bitching about it. They truly are "pro-choice".

I am not pro-choice. I am pro eugenics. This is fucking awesome.


Well, how did the ALCU's go at the Patriot Act work out?

This is step towards a workable eugenics, but IMO the best way to curb unwanted breeding is to make the receiving of social services (like subsidized housing) restricted to how many "family members" you have at the time of acceptance, and revoke it if you have more.

I see government dole and unnecessary breeding as comorbid.

Restrict the number kids vs. income (ability) to receive social programs and call it "The Sustainable Family Act".
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#113642 - 07/27/17 05:38 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 268
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
That's why I suggested paying them. Rather than ordering them, offer them payment.

Admittedly, many women won't buy it because they need the children's welfare money to buy the drugs in the first place. But men might!

Ps. I don't know how the USA welfare system works. In Oz we just get money and rent and healthcare subsidy is available. ie. Foodstamps don't exist.

CM, in Oz we also get a baby bonus now. When I had my second kid back in '97 it was like $800 but I believe it went up to 3 grand or so at one stage. Women were having children to by a new family car. I always thought 3 grand was too much, and that at the vary least it should be prorated. ie. give poorer couples a smaller amount, but people who we want to breed a much larger amount - a baby incentive. This might also work to encourage people to move in a certain direction as far as establishing solid nests. Australia is underpopulated so we do want people to breed, but it would be handy for all if it was people that could afford kids.


Edited by ShadowLover (07/27/17 05:39 PM)
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#113651 - 07/28/17 09:04 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: CanisMachina42]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I see government dole and unnecessary breeding as comorbid.

Restrict the number kids vs. income (ability) to receive social programs and call it "The Sustainable Family Act".

Many states have implemented something like this.

It's nice in theory, but marginally effective. The thing about incentives and deterrents is that they work most effectively on those with foresight, self-awareness, and gratification-deferral skills. These are not qualities I see overflowing in gutter junk.
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