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#113573 - 07/21/17 09:38 PM Reduced sentences for getting on birth control
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
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The story:
http://www.newschannel5.com/news/inmates-given-reduced-jail-time-if-they-get-a-vasectomy

As a lawyer:
(1) The ACLU is correct; this is in flagrant violation of a huge bulk of SCOTUS precedent, and
(2) Fucking yes, I wish every county would follow suit. Fuck the fucking constitution, this is beautiful.

I especially like Benningfield's gamesmanship about helping them get their lives back together. Glorious way to disguise this gutter scraping as compassion.

I'm vaguely peeved that PP & company are bitching about it. They truly are "pro-choice".

I am not pro-choice. I am pro eugenics. This is fucking awesome.
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#113583 - 07/22/17 07:24 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dark Magician Offline
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Posts: 154
I am fucking against this, and I am fucking against eugenics. This is fucking terrible.

I just see this as an attempt by people in established positions of power, for example the government etc., to control and limit the opportunities of other people who are regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc.

Fucking crazy – some guy gets some time wiped from his sentence as a reward for giving up his right to procreate – fuck the bureaucrats who designed this thing and fuck you.

Again fuck you and fuck your eugenics. You certainly are a servant of the system and it damned well shows.

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#113584 - 07/22/17 07:50 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Dark Magician]
ShadowLover Offline
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I'm of two... or three minds about this.

I don't mind the government offering troubled people free vasectomies and whatever that needle is... Maybe some of them don't want the burden of children but are too drug-fucked to organise the prevention themselves. This opportunity might just be the convenient solution they were looking for.

But I don't agree with trading it off for a reduced sentence. Addictions leave people vulnerable, and the government is taking advantage of their vulnerability - seems unethical...

Then again, if people allow themselves to be manipulated like this than it is on them. I just wonder where it stops. If the government is allowed to manipulate this vulnerable group, I wonder who is next.

Who else don't we want to breed? Poor people? Sick people? Ugly people?
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#113585 - 07/22/17 07:59 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Dark Magician]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
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Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician
I just see this as an attempt by people in established positions of power, for example the government etc., to control and limit the opportunities of other people who are regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc.


Simply being "regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc." isn't (usually) enough to get your butt in the slammer. These people were convicted and sentenced.

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician
Fucking crazy – some guy gets some time wiped from his sentence as a reward for giving up his right to procreate – fuck the bureaucrats who designed this thing and fuck you.


Not a lot of time. The article I read in the WP mentioned something like 30 days. Their sentences are not being extended if they don't accept the offer.

And I wouldn't actually call this offer "eugenics" since no one is being forced to do anything. For the women, the birth control option offered is completely reversible. It's likely that the men already fathered children before being incarcerated.
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#113588 - 07/22/17 09:07 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Kori Houghton]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
 Originally Posted By: XG
I am not pro-choice. I am pro eugenics. This is fucking awesome.


Eugenics is a whole other thing. The goal is to prevent accidental births and kids being raised by drug-addicted parents and growing up neglected and abused. This is about cutting the link in the behavioural, not the physical.

 Originally Posted By: XG
Glorious way to disguise this gutter scraping as compassion.


From what I understand this isn't forced, its a choice and the judge is ready to reverse his order if commanded. There's no real gutter cleaning here. Whether he's honest or not, you really think all the fat fucks out there aren't reproducing at higher rates than those in jail?

 Originally Posted By: DM
for example the government etc., to control and limit the opportunities of other people who are regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc.

Fucking crazy-


Yup. But that's the world dude. Seriously, I got over the whole 'sytem' bit a few years ago. The world is a chaotic place. I agree eugenics is complete illogical crap, but that's that fucker called 'the world' for ya.

 Originally Posted By: SL
the government is taking advantage... seems unethical...


...The fuck's new?

 Originally Posted By: SL
Who else don't we want to breed? Poor people? Sick people? Ugly people?


Pretty much.

 Originally Posted By: KH
Simply being "regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc." isn't (usually) enough to get your butt in the slammer. These people were convicted and sentenced.


Debatable.

 Originally Posted By: KH
since no one is being forced to do anything.


Fuck, you want people to go nuts? Tell 'em everything is OK and the world isn't as bad off as they think. See how they react. You'd think there's a fuckin' SHARKNADO outside.

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#113590 - 07/22/17 11:49 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
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 Originally Posted By: ShadowLover
the government is taking advantage of their vulnerability - seems unethical...

Ya don't say. I don't care.

People who have shit independent decision making skills don't need to be breeding.

 Originally Posted By: SL
Who else don't we want to breed? Poor people? Sick people? Ugly people?

(1) Yeah, if you can't afford kids, don't have them.
(2) Yeah, if you have some sort of debilitating condition that makes you incapable of supporting yourself, you have no business making another person that will inevitably rely on others for support, as well. (If, however, you are coping with your condition well enough to be self-reliant, breed away!)
(3) Nah, ugly people can breed. If I don't want to see them, I won't look at them.

 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician
I just see this as an attempt by people in established positions of power, for example the government etc., to control and limit the opportunities of other people who are regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc.

Simply being "regarded as outsiders, Others, and trouble makers etc." isn't (usually) enough to get your butt in the slammer. These people were convicted and sentenced.

I don't know how much stock I put in the convicted and sentenced part, or even in the criminal part, but I've not seen a terribly high number of pinnacles of humanity in the revolving door of jails. I get that in theory the justice system could destroy innocent people, but in practice I end up agreeing with most of the shots it calls.

 Originally Posted By: Dark Magician
Fucking crazy – some guy gets some time wiped from his sentence as a reward for giving up his right to procreate – fuck the bureaucrats who designed this thing and fuck you.

I love how you're deeply concerned about some skiver's "right to procreate," but not at all concerned about a child's right to have a parent who actually has a snowball's chance of caring and providing for them, and incidentally being born not addicted to junk.

 Originally Posted By: KH
And I wouldn't actually call this offer "eugenics" since no one is being forced to do anything.

Eugenics can be voluntary/ incentivized.

 Originally Posted By: KH
For the women, the birth control option offered is completely reversible. It's likely that the men already fathered children before being incarcerated.

Overall improvement of the bell curve is still eugenics, even if it means pruning the trees that drop bad apples instead of uprooting them.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Eugenics is a whole other thing. The goal is to prevent accidental births and kids being raised by drug-addicted parents and growing up neglected and abused. This is about cutting the link in the behavioural, not the physical.

Yes, and no.

It may be nurture instead of nature that causes certain people to be fucked up, but I've seen enough to conclude that some people are just fundamentally, genetically broken, and their lifestyle that lands them in jail is a symptom of it.

It's not directly designed as eugenics, but it's incidentally going to make some headway in that direction.

 Originally Posted By: CN
Whether he's honest or not, you really think all the fat fucks out there aren't reproducing at higher rates than those in jail?

Wait, what?
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#113594 - 07/23/17 12:45 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Posts: 950
 Originally Posted By: XG
It's not directly designed as eugenics, but it's incidentally going to make some headway in that direction.


I can see where people might think so, but there aren't enough details to categorize it.

My point is that people getting fixed in jail isn't going to make any difference in the long run. Fat idiots are reproducing their biology, both nature and nurture. They feed their children junk food and sugar three times a day, they have no interest in being good parents.

Now, the whole thing with the prisoners could be the start of an agenda, only time will tell. Far as genetically 'fucked' I don't agree. People are conditioned. Unless your talking birth defects, people are a product of their environment and upbringing.

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#113596 - 07/24/17 02:58 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Creatura Noptii]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Far as genetically 'fucked' I don't agree. People are conditioned. Unless your talking birth defects, people are a product of their environment and upbringing.

Since it's a given that people can have obvious, recognizable birth defects (e.g. Down Syndrome), is it really a stretch to suggest that some defects may be more subtle, and not readily identifiable, but every bit as much genetic in nature?


Edited by XiaoGui17 (07/24/17 02:59 AM)
Edit Reason: Quote blocks
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#113598 - 07/24/17 10:56 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Posts: 950
Possible? Yes, but I'm not about to support something as dumbfounded as eugenics, especially on mere suspicion. It screams of paranoia.

Of course they may be genetic in nature, but you're going to have to offer more than phantom bugs. In any case, even if there were 'subtle' defects, I doubt it would be as damaging as sugar consumption.

What always gets me after travel, is coming back here and seeing how god awful fat/unhealthy, pissed off and paranoid everyone is.

I'm at a point now I don't even want friends. Maybe its age, or I just don't want anything to do with anyone else's bullshit. Probably both.

Somewhere in another thread I called myself a patriot. This country accomplished a lot. I believe in freedom of speech, gun ownership, the basics. Otherwise, our society is full of paranoid libtards and fatasses.

People believe any little conspiracy, all while gulping down mass loads of sugar and fast food.

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#113599 - 07/24/17 12:08 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Creatura Noptii]
entropicmomentum Offline
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Gotta love the sanctimony at the start of this thread.

Who gets to decide what are good genes and what are bad genes? Sure, some genetic conditions are pretty straight forward, but we’re talking about human genetics not peas. This is especially problematic when one considers we do not understand all gene interactions.

That being said, we can still have a productive conversation about eugenics. I think positive eugenics is worth exploring because we’re not really talking about nature vs nurture. Nature may manifest differently based on environment. For example, you can genetically be predisposed to alcoholism, but if you never have drop of alcohol in your life, then that never manifests.

Behavior and genetics are intertwined, so if an incentive is offered to stem the genetic variable, then future behavior is taken care of. If you can’t reproduce, you can’t teach shit behaviors to children who are susceptible to shit behaviors.

As for obesity, sure there can be a vicious cycle there too, but the context of this thread is eugenics as it pertains to the criminal reform. If people being addicted to Big Macs and milkshakes were criminal, or lead to criminal activity, I could see that being more relevant. Teaching kids shit eating habits could potentially be criminal, so maybe if an adult has food addictions that leads to criminal negligence of a child’s health, then I don’t see why offering them an option to not be able to make kids wouldn’t work.
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#113601 - 07/24/17 04:44 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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Personally, I think it's funny that the women are offered a 4 year contraception device, and men have to get a vasectomy to shorten their term. This speaks volumes on the threat.

Will these women miraculously turn their lives around with a 4 year stint against their egg-basket? How about men?

This bullshittery is an attempt at gentrification, not eugenics. Don't get it twisted there cupcake. This is about economics. One less baby on welfare, that's it. Nothing to celebrate.
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#113605 - 07/24/17 05:48 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: EPM
That being said, we can still have a productive conversation about eugenics.


Eugenics is based on the segragation, prevention, and or elimination of undesireable people, based on psudo-science or rather, no factual basis other than pure bigotry.

I like to associate Satanism with sound logic. Eugenics is not that.

 Originally Posted By: EMP
I think positive eugenics


Here I laugh. If its a crusade your after, perhaps you ought to find your nearest Jesus center, go there and kneel.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
This is about economics.


Look, someone got it right for once \:\)

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#113608 - 07/24/17 10:46 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
This bullshittery is an attempt at gentrification, not eugenics. Don't get it twisted there cupcake. This is about economics. One less baby on welfare, that's it. Nothing to celebrate.


I looked at some of the demographics for White County TN, and I can't see that location having any potential for gentrification. I spent 10 years living in a similar place during the 1990s, in a county with about 20K residents (versus 23K in White Co.), outside a town (the county seat) with about 1000 residents. While there were a few extremely wealthy families living there, the majority were poor and semi-literate. That situation was maintained for reasons of economics: poor people need government and non-profit services, and administering those services meant jobs for the college educated daughters of the wealthier families without having to commute out of the area.

When I say the county had a drug problem 20 years ago, I am not basing that on articles I read in the local weekly newspaper. My husband found syringes etc at the bottom of our driveway. Called the sheriff, and was met with indifference. "Just be careful not to stick yourself when you pick up the needle." We were looking into installing a security gate across the bottom of the driveway, until we discovered that our home would not be permitted internet access (your name had to be on an approved list sent to the local ISP by the local PTB), and decided to sell out and move.

In my view, preventing even a few pregnancies is worth the effort. Seriously, even one less incident like this one is worth the effort in prevention. I have buprenorphine syringes for my cat's chronic health problems, and I have to be around to keep an eye on her for the first few hours after giving her the squirt. No way would I play doctor, and give that stuff to a baby!
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#113609 - 07/25/17 10:51 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
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 Originally Posted By: entropicmomentum
Who gets to decide what are good genes and what are bad genes? Sure, some genetic conditions are pretty straight forward, but we’re talking about human genetics not peas. This is especially problematic when one considers we do not understand all gene interactions.

Okay, okay. My bad. Using the term "eugenics" was an unwieldy, imprecise use of language. It's not exactly what I meant, and it comes across as misguided junk science.

I don't really have a term for what it is I'd like to see. The term "culling" refers to disposing of those already born, not preventing their birth. I'd like something like pre-emptive culling.

I'm not terribly concerned with what went wrong with these people, whether it was drugs or poverty or bad genes or abuse. As in the Parable of the Poisoned Arrow, I want to fix the problem, not nit pick about the cause. I see this as a step in the right direction.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
This bullshittery is an attempt at gentrification, not eugenics. Don't get it twisted there cupcake. This is about economics. One less baby on welfare, that's it. Nothing to celebrate.

This. That's precisely what I am celebrating.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Personally, I think it's funny that the women are offered a 4 year contraception device, and men have to get a vasectomy to shorten their term. This speaks volumes on the threat.

I suspect it's because (1) there's no LARC available for men, and (2) straight-up sterilizing women would cause a bit more of an uproar.
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#113613 - 07/25/17 12:27 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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They don't mince words about it. The jump to Eugenics is fuzzy logic. Aside that, it doesn't knock off much time. 30 days I think? Some of these inmates have lost their entire lives while incarcerated. In their attempt to restart, sex is high on the top of the list of things they want to do. Common sense isn't applied, so yeah... Welfare babies are born.

Even if there's more of an uproar for sterilizing women, it appears the real threat is a newly released sperm gun.

Gentrification is a slow process. You start by eliminating mitigating economic factors such as a release of x # of inmates and babies that follow.
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#113614 - 07/25/17 02:19 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
They don't mince words about it. The jump to Eugenics is fuzzy logic.

As I said above, there aren't really words for it to be minced. You'd call it "gentrification," but that's not a very specific term.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Even if there's more of an uproar for sterilizing women, it appears the real threat is a newly released sperm gun.

If the sperm gun were firing kiddos out of his crotch, I'd agree. But The Sperminator isn't going to impregnate a woman who's had her tubes tied or who has LARC.

I think the women are the primary threat. They are the limiting factor in reproduction. If one wants to slow it down, start with the slowest step in the assembly line.
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#113615 - 07/25/17 02:25 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
entropicmomentum Offline
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Crusade? Whatchu talkin bout, Willis?

Sure, classical eugenics is shit, so I guess if you want to limit your definitions that sounds totally logical. And yes I realize I misused the term "positive eugenics".

I get that this case is about economics, but I don't think eugenics and economics are necessarily mutually exclusive.
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#113617 - 07/25/17 05:45 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
I am not pro-choice. I am pro eugenics. This is fucking awesome.


You planted that seed in your OP. I was speaking on the economic factors that play out, when inmates are released.

I've implied that men are the real threat because they are offered vasectomies for a 30 day shave off. Whereas women can resume breeding after a 4 year stint on a contraception device.

It's a carrot to chase... Freedom.

Gentrification is specific, especially as it pertains to the standard. Not many inmates are lucky enough to get decent housing upon release. They end up in over-crowded half-way houses and find ways to blow off steam. Like fuck.

Only this way, it won't result in a child while caution is thrown to the wind. Besides, it's voluntary not forced. Inmates can opt out, especially if they envision a family for themselves in the future.
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#113618 - 07/25/17 05:47 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: entropicmomentum]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Quote:
But The Sperminator isn't going to impregnate a woman who's had her tubes tied or who has LARC... I think the women are the primary threat. They are the limiting factor in reproduction.


Its men who need to get control of their junk. Pretty soon men are going to have a long lasting form of birth inhibitor called Vasalgel. Giving men the upper hand in contraception won't only prevent pregnancy, but the silly deception of their female counterparts that come in the way of false claims and sperm jacking. Not an option if the guy shoots blanks.

and then this:

 Originally Posted By: XG
I don't really have a term for what it is I'd like to see... I'm not terribly concerned with what went wrong... I want to fix the problem, not nit pick about the cause.


Unbelivihilaridiculous.

 Originally Posted By: EPM
Sure, classical eugenics is shit


Its all shit.

 Originally Posted By: EMP
but I don't think eugenics and economics are necessarily mutually exclusive.


... They are completely different things, but yes, monetary class and other racial factors often tie in together, but they aren't always eugenics. Racism plays a factor, but the thing itself is classified as false information presented as consensus fact in order to control, limit, or remove so called 'undesirables.'

Your talking racism, which plays a part. Ultimately people find ways to conflict, eugenics or no. This has to do with the fact that the human brain is hard wired to cognate personal social identity with survival. Again, what is practised isn't always acknowledged, let alone challenged or re-wired. Social conditioning, for better or ill, relies on this kind of inhibited understanding of self and human nature as a whole.

Broadening terms like Eugenics takes away important understanding of what it is, why its flawed, and how it happens. People believe authority, and acknowledge information from that authority as fact, just because say, its in a text book, or since the classroom teacher says so, it must be true. That's a good chunk of how Eugenics spread, but also the fact that people had had racist beliefs which are a product of cultural upbringing. Point is, once an idea gets rationalized, it is at the same time justified, be it a sound idea, or bat-shit.

People generally don't talk to anyone outside their social designation. The rich, middle and poor classes resent each other. This is human behaviour people overlook because they are too busy reacting to notice.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Besides, it's voluntary not forced. Inmates can opt out, especially if they envision a family for themselves in the future.


The whole point is that its optional, but seriously, what's the overall impact? The idiots are taking over, and the majority are reproducing outside prison walls. The whole thing is just click-bait.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (07/25/17 06:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Edits

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#113622 - 07/26/17 01:15 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dimitri Offline
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Not bad. Something to actually stand behind.

On the long term it might provide an improvement for society.
Although I have my doubts about serial offenders.

Junkies remain junkies. They can always fall back to their drug if they got off by doing a mere vasectomy. Psychological guiding would be more effective. The vasectomy merely lowers the risk of having children (who might be born in a toxic and self-destructive situation). In a certain sense it is a bit eugenics... if you consider the normies the better genes that is..

Could make a case about rapists. But there the act has more to do about power than the act itself. Even so, serial rapists will merely have reduced sentences. Here's to hoping that was taken into account.

And what about the other cases? Fathers who couldn't pay alimony? I don't see this helping their case. Abusive men and women.

All could profit from reduced sentences.
There's a nice first step. Merely hoping there are stipulations so it doesn't become FFA.
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#113623 - 07/26/17 11:48 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: V


The whole point is that its optional, but seriously, what's the overall impact? The idiots are taking over, and the majority are reproducing outside prison walls. The whole thing is just click-bait.


Right, which is why I said there's really nothing there to celebrate. Idiots tend to make idiotic decisions for themselves. So when given the option, they may choose to opt out. You know how uppity some people can get. "Who do they think they are!" Then they opt out, for the rebel's cause alone.

The wall doesn't matter. The thing is, either you can navigate among idiots or you can't. The world hasn't changed a bit since the day I was born. I tend not to lean on some utopian fix for our society. I just go on each day, with the knowledge that other people are not my concern. Doesn't mean we don't encounter them or have to suffer them. To believe however, that if the government would just do [fill in the blank] then life would be better... Is the bait.
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#113624 - 07/26/17 04:32 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Loc: East Coast USA
It's not just what "the government" is doing.

I saw this segment on VICE News this morning about a private non-profit offering cash to addicts for using birth control or getting sterilized.

Check out the SJWs supporting an addict's choice to have as many children as she chooses because the drugs used during pregnancy don't do lasting harm to the babies. Of course, no mention is made about what happens to a baby born to an addict who can't even care for herself at the time of the birth. If an addict has already had 7 children, how many more should Joe and Mary Taxpayer be willing to support?
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#113626 - 07/26/17 05:44 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I tend not to lean on some utopian fix for our society. I just go on each day, with the knowledge that other people are not my concern. Doesn't mean we don't encounter them or have to suffer them. To believe however, that if the government would just do [fill in the blank] then life would be better... Is the bait.

I can see trashing me for the improper use of "eugenics," but this has me wondering where the heck this came from.

I'm not holding my breath for any permanent/ large-scale solutions to shit. I just get a bit giddy when I see something I like. It's the simple pleasures.

I'm not concerned about making the world a better place. I'm just loving the idea that somewhere, at least one GangBang McGee is getting his shit snipped.
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#113628 - 07/26/17 05:57 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
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I'm not trashing you V, really I'm not. I'm just elaborating on why I don't see what's to get giddy over. Especially since it's optional. No more happy-dance worthy than the general practice of sterilization. The Proletariat breeds like rabbits, always has. Even more so when they are on the verge of starvation. Look at any third world armpit and their habits.

I suppose, it would be a pleasure to see more people use their brains instead of falling subject to their impulses. I guess we'll see how that turns out when the stats are in at the end of the Quarter eh?
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#113629 - 07/26/17 06:04 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Kori Houghton]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
It's not just what "the government" is doing.


Believe me I know. I figure if people want to privately fund junkies and their kids, they must derive some personal pleasure from it. Philanthropists get their rocks off in ways I'll never understand. As for the long haul, I don't think it makes much of a difference who pays for it, there will always be a percentage of the population that's parasitic.

If we cared enough about tax theft, we'd find a tax shelter, keep money under the mattress, or move. The U.S. has one of the highest rates in the world.

That's why all the Dems and their kin are screaming that the sky is falling because Republicans are starting to remember what fiscal conservatism actually is.

I guess it's easier to just blame Trump for everything, he can be the new Hitler and they don't have to use their brains.

Rinse and Repeat.
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#113635 - 07/27/17 03:17 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
Not necessarily something I would advocate for, but if you want to stop junkies from having babies, instead of waiting for them to go to prison, just offer the vasectomy or tubal ligation in exchange for a couple of hits! (They give clean needles etc out at those safe house things.) They'd be lining up! Hell, if you offered to juice their spouse as well they would be dragging each other in.

Then, phase 2, after they have been neutered, you could have a baby-buy-back scheme where they get to sell their babies to adoptive parents for drugs. Or rent them to them on yearly contracts.

That way it wouldn't even be the government dictating the outcome, but would be left to individuals to volunteer themselves for the program. If you chuck them through a couple of counselling sessions on the way through, you might even side-step the ethics conundrum.
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#113639 - 07/27/17 11:51 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
People act as if the offer alone will get it done. It won't. Junkies get rather uppity about even suggesting they be sterilized.

I have first hand-knowledge of this. The offer didn't stop a single junkie in my 'family' from breeding. In fact, they just had more kids in protest. People are advocating for *forced* sterilization because people are tired of carrying the dead weight, figuring out what to do with these kids that end up in the system (if they even make it there) and funding programs for 'recovery'.
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#113641 - 07/27/17 03:49 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1654
Loc: Ca
 
 Quote:
As a lawyer:

(1) The ACLU is correct; this is in flagrant violation of a huge bulk of SCOTUS precedent, and

(2) Fucking yes, I wish every county would follow suit. Fuck the fucking constitution, this is beautiful.

I especially like Benningfield's gamesmanship about helping them get their lives back together. Glorious way to disguise this gutter scraping as compassion.

I'm vaguely peeved that PP & company are bitching about it. They truly are "pro-choice".

I am not pro-choice. I am pro eugenics. This is fucking awesome.


Well, how did the ALCU's go at the Patriot Act work out?

This is step towards a workable eugenics, but IMO the best way to curb unwanted breeding is to make the receiving of social services (like subsidized housing) restricted to how many "family members" you have at the time of acceptance, and revoke it if you have more.

I see government dole and unnecessary breeding as comorbid.

Restrict the number kids vs. income (ability) to receive social programs and call it "The Sustainable Family Act".
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#113642 - 07/27/17 05:38 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
That's why I suggested paying them. Rather than ordering them, offer them payment.

Admittedly, many women won't buy it because they need the children's welfare money to buy the drugs in the first place. But men might!

Ps. I don't know how the USA welfare system works. In Oz we just get money and rent and healthcare subsidy is available. ie. Foodstamps don't exist.

CM, in Oz we also get a baby bonus now. When I had my second kid back in '97 it was like $800 but I believe it went up to 3 grand or so at one stage. Women were having children to by a new family car. I always thought 3 grand was too much, and that at the vary least it should be prorated. ie. give poorer couples a smaller amount, but people who we want to breed a much larger amount - a baby incentive. This might also work to encourage people to move in a certain direction as far as establishing solid nests. Australia is underpopulated so we do want people to breed, but it would be handy for all if it was people that could afford kids.


Edited by ShadowLover (07/27/17 05:39 PM)
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#113651 - 07/28/17 09:04 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: CanisMachina42]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1407
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
I see government dole and unnecessary breeding as comorbid.

Restrict the number kids vs. income (ability) to receive social programs and call it "The Sustainable Family Act".

Many states have implemented something like this.

It's nice in theory, but marginally effective. The thing about incentives and deterrents is that they work most effectively on those with foresight, self-awareness, and gratification-deferral skills. These are not qualities I see overflowing in gutter junk.
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#113652 - 07/28/17 09:28 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: ShadowLover]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: SL
That's why I suggested paying them. Rather than ordering them, offer them payment.


Since the USA is the land of Opportunists, some may take the bait and later find some loophole to sue the state.

It's not as if sterilization hasn't been tried in the past. Instead of offering them money as incentive, it was more or less preying on their ignorance .

Further back, same deal.

Then you have Planned Parenthood.

 Quote:
“…the mass of ignorant Negroes still breed carelessly and disastrously, so that the increase among Negroes, even more than the increase among Whites, is from that part of the population least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear their children properly.”
Margaret Singer, founder

Today, that same agency is constantly under fire because the statistics can be used to show that black babies are aborted at a higher rate than any other.

Whether voluntary or tricked, doesn't seem to make much of an impact because the quality of people in any given society is a result of cultivating that society. There will always be a higher number failing because people are entitled by being indoctrinated by that society's values.
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#113658 - 07/28/17 02:22 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: V
The whole point is that its optional, but seriously, what's the overall impact? The idiots are taking over, and the majority are reproducing outside prison walls. The whole thing is just click-bait.


 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I'm not trashing you V, really I'm not.


That top quote was me, so Who/What is V? Ah, you must mean Vasalgel the wonderful invention that gives men with the money the upper hand to prevent all these complications in the first place, though I doubt it will stop herpes.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Whether voluntary or tricked, doesn't seem to make much of an impact because the quality of people in any given society is a result of cultivating that society.


I'm glad I'm me. Being middle class, that is. I've met very rich and very poor people, both are extremely insane for the most part.

To add, society is only a selection of several people by discrimination. Class, race, sex, city, county, state, one big clusterfuck. Always has been, always will be.

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#113684 - 07/31/17 08:50 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
That top quote was me, so Who/What is V?


Yes, that was my error. Phone posting. Should have been you "C" vs, Vanessa = V.

Not to excuse it but I've also had to wear readers, my eyes are deteriorating with age. Aging sucks.
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#113687 - 07/31/17 09:33 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: SIN3]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1407
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: CN
That top quote was me, so Who/What is V?


Yes, that was my error. Phone posting. Should have been you "C" vs, Vanessa = V.

I've also noticed a strange glitch on the site. I discovered by accident that if I highlighted a certain subset of a post and hit the "Quick Quote" button, it would generate a quick quote of that highlighted bit alone. Pretty handy, I thought.

Then I realized that if I highlighted a sentence from Post A and hit the Quick Quote button on Post B, it would attribute the quote from Quote A to Poster B in the Quick Quote. I only noticed after someone got their hackles up about me sticking someone else's words in their mouth--quite by accident, and I was on a computer with a big screen and keyboard and the works!
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#113696 - 07/31/17 04:10 PM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: XiaoGui17]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Hmmm, that is interesting because I don't recall having quoted that bit but who the hell knows at this point. I claim the error because it's mine. This is good info though, I'll keep it in mind the future.
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#113961 - 08/15/17 09:54 AM Re: Reduced sentences for getting on birth control [Re: Dark Magician]
CCB Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 34
Loc: United States
 Quote:
limit the opportunities of other people who are regarded as outsiders


They're not even forcing them to do it. They are giving them the option to, in exchange for reducing jail time. That is the definition of an opportunity.

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