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#11432 - 09/12/08 04:55 PM Iraq bullshit!!!
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
well it may be the wrong forum but politics didn't seem just right, if it gets moved oh well. This is just a rant and rave I guess but everyone gotta vent.
Yesterday my platoon sgt. gathered up the platoon up into a formation and said that one of the iraq police was crying about one of the soldiers pointing a weapon at him. Well he gets all pissed off about it because the IP went crying to his col. Turns out that the IP was driving through a controlled entry point at about 20 MPH. He was lucky that we didn't shoot his ass, however the platoon sgt said that he got chewed out by our commander for showing intent to shoot the iraq police. But that specific soldier used all the proper escalation of force measures that we get drilled into our heads every fucking day.
Not only this but they have to clear weapons when they come into the gate and they end up pointing (unintenally) or waving a loaded pistol at the soldiers because the dumbass doesn't want to get searched but the gaurds. And when we yell at them or try to take their weapons or push them out of the way we get into a shitload of trouble, I guess it sends the message that we aren't allowed to defend ourselves and that the iraqi's lives are more important then the soldiers lives.
Now during a ramp brief before a mission this morning he tells us that we are going to be investigated by Criminal Investagations Division for using our force protection measures. Not only this he tells us about the fact that we as an army are bending over backwards so that the iraq army and iraq police figurativly end up butt fucking us.
Also we (U.S. Army) can barley get supplies for ourselves but when it comes to helping out the iraqi nation the supplies take precendance over the soldiers meal, sleep, and all in all free time. What the fuck?!
Now we just recieved a briefing that we are not allowed to lock and load our weapons while on mounted patrols anymore due to "safety reasons". We now have to drive around with our ammo source on the weapons but no round in the chamber. To me this just sounds retarded due to the fact that we are in a war zone.
What you all think about this? By the way I am apologize if I have wasted your time with this post but I need to let out some frustrations and this seemed the only logical way to let them out due to most people in the Army being complete jackasses.


Edited by ringmaster (09/12/08 05:42 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling errors
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#11433 - 09/12/08 05:39 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Ringmaster]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I really feel bad for the average 'Joe' out there in the field. He really gets fucked.

This is what happens when politicians and civil servants try to play war. Despite all of the buzz about 'Warrior Ethos' the Army remains run under a civil servant culture. Fully half or more of the soldiers and leaders in the Army would be more at home working at the DMV.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#14169 - 11/11/08 02:14 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Fist]
Chelsea_Grin Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 54
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I recently heard of a story that said when someone tried to join the military, he was declined because he had a 666 tattoo on the back of his neck. A) Is this true? B)Any thoughts if it is?
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#14171 - 11/11/08 02:29 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Chelsea_Grin]
d3vi1d06 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 13
im sorry if this seems rude but what does a tattoo have to do with the soldiers not having a means to defend themselves.

now, ring master. i feel your pain because im supposed to deploy to iraq next year. im concerned that if i cant chamber a round while on a patrol, thats retarded. the quickest time i can make a condition 1 weapon is 4 seconds. lots of room for an ak round to harm me or my fellow marines. is this now the roe for everyone? or is it just your unit?. stay safe out there bro.

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#14173 - 11/11/08 02:35 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: d3vi1d06]
d3vi1d06 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 13
sorry for the double post. but as for the tattoo: it doesnt matter that its a 666. you cant have a tattoo above the collar line. thats the rule and its not a biased one. there was a guy with jesus on his neck and he couldnt join either.
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#14174 - 11/11/08 02:37 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: d3vi1d06]
Chelsea_Grin Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 54
Loc: Atlanta, GA
My apologies, but I saw the thread was about Iraq and the gentlemen in the thread had experience with things military. I though my question would have been best answered by someone who's in it first hand. It was a general question to see if there was yet another fallacy being said in affiliation with the military.
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#14175 - 11/11/08 02:52 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Chelsea_Grin]
d3vi1d06 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 13
im in the millitary. and to affirm with you the policy on tattoos. no tattoo shall breech the collar line. i.e. no tattoos on the neck.
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#14176 - 11/11/08 02:58 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Ringmaster]
athegiscj Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Atlanta, Ga
I think that this is very wrong to be honest. If your going to put men and women on the posts in a wartime area then i would personally think it a PERSONAL saftey hazard to not carry a loaded weapon, i mean all of the surprise attacks that they have done against us only makes me see reason fit towards keeping them loaded.

These are just some of the main reasons why i couldn't join the military. But i do thank you for serving your country.
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Informants needed!

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#14241 - 11/11/08 11:23 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: athegiscj]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
A weapon not locked and loaded is a club. I'm afraid that's one order I would have to challenge all the way up the chain of command and disobey it if I couldn't get it rescinded. If it was a policing action in a low-threat environment or a hearts-and- minds mission as they used to be called in Vietnam, maybe... but in an active fire zone? Sorry. Lock and load.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#14243 - 11/11/08 11:41 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Jake999]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Sorry d3vi1, that is the way it is for your average infantry. My time over there was exactly the same, and with us we were not allowed to fire until fired upon. So basically wait till you or someone else gets dropped then shoot. What is this the fucking civil war?!
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#14258 - 11/12/08 03:19 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: blsk]
d3vi1d06 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 13
so basically im fucked if i go on patrol. you see, it this bullshit that is the main reason why our brothers and sisters come home in a box. fuck!!!!
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#14267 - 11/12/08 10:18 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: d3vi1d06]
harrison Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 55
Loc: winnipeg Mb, canada
it is sad that we were lied to by the Bush family and now that we have a new presedent in america we should clean up this mess or continue to fight so arrogantly oversea's. am i right???
_________________________
be true to yourself

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#14295 - 11/12/08 05:23 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: harrison]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
I just wonder why. Does anyone know why these rules about gun loading and gun pointing were made?
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#14299 - 11/12/08 05:44 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: d3vi1d06]
Magus Masonica Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 14
Loc: WA
 Originally Posted By: d3vi1d06
im in the millitary. and to affirm with you the policy on tattoos. no tattoo shall breech the collar line. i.e. no tattoos on the neck.


So, all it takes a tattoo on the neck to keep someone from becoming a professional bullet catcher? If that is the case I will give each of my kids a head tattoo for their 18th birthday.
_________________________
BC 96°
National Head Of Washington State
M.E.A.P.R.M.M.

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#14301 - 11/12/08 06:00 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Magus Masonica]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Haven't you figured out yet that you're not supposed to come back alive? Why do you think that Bush hides soldiers' coffins? He doesn't want us at home getting upset that you guys are dying in a futile war to line his pockets.

As time goes by, they will simply find more and more ways to kill you. They're already RFID chipping everyone and forcing everyone to take poison-laced innoculations to destroy your immune systems.

You're not just expendable, you're being targeted.

Right now, a financial coup is underway in the USA. We are being systematically torn apart. Every able-bodied person must be killed in fruitless wars so that the rest can be enslaved. This is how this works.

You are supposed to die so that you cannot defend us. You are supposed to come back infertile if you do come back. You are supposed to come back wounded if possible, if you absolutely MUST come back.

Especially if you show any indications whatever that you don't really like the idea of being an endentured slave for the rest of your life.

Pretending you don't know what independent thought is will increase your chances of surviving all this.

I assume you know what's going on at home. The same things the Nazis did in Britian. Our economic system is being flooded with money in order to force exponential increases the inflation rate to where it is no longer sustainable.

The same thing is being done in various other nations, as well. China, the UK, etc.

Once the central banks collapse all of the economies, they will come together in a "show of good will" towards all humanity, and create a one world currency... to be printed and controlled by the Central Bank Cartel.

But they can't complete their coup with too many able-bodied men and women alive in key areas, one of which is the USA. So these wars are intended to keep you either away from home, or dead as the coup goes down.

The next step is most likely a "National Emergency" in the form of a pandemic. Multiple states are even now preparing for a pandemic, and CA is preparing for an "emergency" in teh form of an Earthquake drill.

This is intentional. You're being subtly disarmed to make you easier to kill off. YOu can't help anyone if you're dead.


Edited by Pheonix_Renewed (11/12/08 06:00 PM)

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#14302 - 11/12/08 06:08 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention the draft, which Obama has already stated will be raised to include all men and women aged up to 42 years old. All individuals, regardless of gender, will be drafted.

Seems a person or two missed this little tidbit before election day.

And, he is also preparing "Obama Youth," a program of "public service" in which children in high school will have mandatory community service (Unconstitutional, of course) and then will have a mandatory 3 month paramilitary civilian "service." Complete with boot camp, just not with external military activation... yet.

Strap yourself in, friend. Soon, you will be our last, best hope for the future as free persons (to any degree), not slaves or corpses while our children are enslaved.

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#14334 - 11/13/08 02:18 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Originally Posted By: Pheonix_Renewed


They're already RFID chipping everyone and forcing everyone to take poison-laced innoculations to destroy your immune systems.

You're not just expendable, you're being targeted.



Pheonix, I do hope that you are talking about the insurgency when you say that we are being targeted. RFID and poisin-laced innoculations? LMFAO!!!! What proof do you have of this claim? From a personal experience there are no such things taking place atleast where I am. Anthrax vaccines, flu shots, tetnus shots, and other such vaccines are being given to soldiers, but someone dropping dead from them (because they are poison innoculations) is outright bullshit and utter nonsense. If what you said be the case then the military would have a lot of dead soldiers lying around garrision. Also the vaccines that they give us come with a briefing of what the shot is, how to care for it in case of an infection, the company that the vaccine came from, the batch and lot number of the vaccine, need I continue? Another thing about this... if this statment were true the military would be very poor and have no money due to the life insurance they give out after a soldier dies, $500,000 for life insurance seems a lot if you are issuing it out to families at a mass amount of dead soldiers.

Now on to the more reasonable and intelligent things. Leaving the wire without a loaded weapon is somewhat the case, you have a mag inserted into your weapon just not a round chambered. I should have been a little more clear on this issue. There is no point taking it up to the chain of command because that order has come down from the division commander so there is no point in attempting to change this.

Do I think this is an absurd rule? Yes I do. Do others I serve with? Yes they do. But I guess this is one of those things that is in place for a reason and while I don't agree with this SOP I must follow it.

As far as this being the ROE for every unit and every branch, I don't know. I will not even try to act like I know. Good luck to you when you deploy keep your head down and rounds flying.

Now yes this is a combat zone, but the area that my unit patrols in is a relativly calm area. However it is still the fact that the shit could happen at any minute and any second. Even if our area of operations isn't that violent, the surrounding areas of operations for other companies is which is why I find this to be an issue.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#14347 - 11/13/08 09:23 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Ringmaster]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
I assume that you know that flu vaccines all have 50,000 ppm of mercury, a dose 4 times the limit for a 130 pound woman.

All that any vaccine maker has to do in order to claim 0 mercury, or mercury free on their vaccine inserts is to REDUCE the amount of mercury in it that there was before. So a "mercury free" vaccine may very well NOT be.

I'm sure you know about the dangers of mercury even for adults, but in case you don't: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs46.html

Here's a discussion about the impact of mercury on your neurons in your brain: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo&eurl=http://deathbyvaccination.com/

Additionally, there has been no proof that this vaccine actually works. In order to prove efficacy, all that has to be done is to show, in lab results, that the vaccine produces antibodies to the flu.

Something else that you may not know about is that mercury and bormide and fluoride all interfere with the thyroid gland. Inside the thyroid, there are receptors which bind with iodine. All three of these substances will bind to these receptors. However, if you get sufficient doses of iodine, it will kick these invading poisons out, and take its rightful place.

But, they took iodine out of bread, and replaced it with the poison bromide. So not only are you not being given the iodine you need, but you are being given a poison instead. They are all too eager to feed you bromide and inject mercury into you. They are all too eager to give you fluoride (another known neurotoxin that decreases brain function). But when is the last time you got an iodine shot? An iodine pill? Drops? Have you even been told that iodine will rid your body of the other toxins you are being given for your own good?

Here is a link with loads of studies on the immense importance of iodine to the body: http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Liodine2.htm

Now, this could just be an oversight. Maybe laziness. Perhaps even greed, making them poison us so they can sell us more drugs.

But really, does it matter? Does this make it right or acceptable?

Whether you think I'm nutters because of it, or not, the science is pretty clear. And we haven't started on the aluminum and formaldehyde still in ALL vaccines.

I appreciate that it's bad form to talk about these things, and I'm opening myself up for mockery. But please understand, my intentions are good. Yes, you can be a nutter with good intentions. But my point here isn't to create fear, only awareness. When we become aware, we can stand up for ourselves. No matter the motivation, what is going on here is plain wrong.

This is, however, not the only way in which our soldiers are being poisoned. This is just the start of it.

I'll be back in a while with more, as I am in the process of compiling it.

I'm not here to push anything on you, though. If you want me to just drop it, I will. If you want more information or more links, I am happy to do my best to provide them.

I'm speaking up because I think what's being done to so many people, without them being honestly and genuinely informed (and often even being lied to), is wrong. And for them to do it to our military, and our children, and our elderly... well, need I say more? I think that speaks for itself on the staggering degree of wrongness entailed.

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#14351 - 11/13/08 09:53 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Court cases saying US soldiers cannot sue government for giving them LSD.

http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/research/stanley.htm

Agent Orange & US Veterans

http://www.usvetdsp.com/agentorange.htm

2nd Circuit Rejects Agent Orange Claims by U.S. Veterans, Vietnamese Nationals

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1203677145294

Vaccine A (A good book on Military Experiments of Soldiers) Special notes on Antrax vaccine at this link**

http://www.vaccine-a.com/excerpt.html

Project Shad (Official Government Website)

http://www1.va.gov/SHAD/

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#14376 - 11/13/08 06:23 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
I thought the American death rate in Iraq was relatively low, that most people that go there come back alive. My cousins that went there and came back certainly didn't describe your scenario.

What's the evidence you're correct and not a paranoid schitzophrenic?

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#14378 - 11/13/08 06:32 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Haven't you figured out yet that you're not supposed to come back alive?


Dev? Is that you? Damn, we need to talk....

I know a great many people who have gone and returned to tell the tale, only to go again, and again.

I know quite a few people who actually enjoy this line of work. For some, combat seems normal and the normal world is hard for them.

Obama will not 'end' the war, and there will be no draft.

Next slide....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#14395 - 11/13/08 10:45 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: coelentrate]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
 Originally Posted By: coelentrate
I thought the American death rate in Iraq was relatively low, that most people that go there come back alive. My cousins that went there and came back certainly didn't describe your scenario.

What's the evidence you're correct and not a paranoid schitzophrenic?


Yes, they're coming back alive, but as the next poster points out, most of them go back. Many are not happy about it.

However, the point is that there are quite a few slow poisons being given to our military, literally forced onto them.

There are soldiers being recalled, and some of them are beginning to refuse to go back.

Do you know about Agent Orange? The same thing is happening to our soldiers today with depleted uranium.

Did you bother to read any of the links I gave, or have you simply decided to write me off without even bothering to read? What good is proof if you can't be bothered to even look at the proof?

You've accepted the party line and dismissed me before you've even bothered to listen or think about what I say or the proof I've given.

Lots of men came back from other wars, too, and interestingly enough, they were killed by the poisons their government gave them.

When many of these soldiers come home, they are the walking dead. They won't survive, and they won't be able to have children. And it won't be because of the Iraqis. It's our own government.

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#14396 - 11/13/08 10:45 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Honor-Vets-by-Learning-Abo-by-Barbara-Bellows-Te-081111-169.html


November 11, 2008

Honor Vets by Learning About Depleted Uranium

By Barbara Bellows-TerraNova


As Europe mourns in Verdun today for those lost in "The War to End All Wars", World War I, we could look to another moment in European history to shed light on the most aggressively silenced story of the Bush administration.

In late 2000 and January 2001, reports were exploding across Europe about the rise in cancer amongst NATO soldiers who had served in the "peacekeeping missions" in Bosnia and Kosovo. The effects of the depleted uranium in the U.S. and U.K. weapons could not be ignored.

But history shows that the United Nations and the World Health Organization could be intimidated. The report from the WHO – that detailed how the DU vaporized upon impact into tiny particles that were breathed in, or consumed through the mouth or entered through open wounds, where the irradiating bits attacked cells all the way through the body, causing mutations along the way – was shelved under pressure from the U.S.


Even now, the major U.S. news organizations do not touch the subject, though the international press cannot ignore it. Even last month, a Middle Eastern Reuters reporter discussed the health damages because of the contaminated environment with Iraqi En Iraqi Environment Minister Nermeen Othman,

"When we talk about it, people may think we are overreacting. But in fact the environmental catastrophe that we inherited in Iraq is even worse than it sounds."

And The Tehran Times further endangers their country by continuing to report on the problem, calling it a war crime.

And across the internet, retired Air Force Lt. Col. Roger Helbig seeks to intimidate anyone who dares to bring up the subject.

But we evolve, and the United Nations First Committee has overwhelmingly passed a resolution, on October 31st, calling for "relevant UN agencies, in this case the International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA), World Health Organisation (WHO) and United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) to update and complete their research into the possible health and environmental impact of the use of uranium weapons by 2010." The only countries that voted against it were the United States, the United Kingdom, Israel and France.

Meanwhile, to help the reader get to the point, I've put together the following. Although the facts, for the most part, do not contain links, there is a list of the references at the end.

Ten Essential Facts:

1. Depleted uranium, the nuclear waste of uranium enrichment, is not actually "depleted" of radiation; 99.3% of it is Uranium238, which still emits radioactive alpha particles at the rate 12,400/second, with an estimated half life of 4.5 billion years.

2. Depleted uranium is plentiful - there are 7 pounds remaining for every pound of enriched uranium - and requires expensive and often politically-contentious hazardous waste storage.

3. Depleted uranium is less of a problem for the nuclear industry when it is cheaply passed on to U.S. weapons manufacturers for warheads, penetrators, bunker-busters, missiles, armor and other ammunition used by the U.S. military in the Middle East and elsewhere, and sold to other countries and political factions.

4. Depleted uranium is "pyrophoric", which makes it uniquely effective at piercing hard targets, because upon impact, it immediately burns, vaporizing the majority of its bulk and leaving a hard, thin, sharpened tip - and large amounts of radioactive particles suspended in the atmosphere.

5. Depleted uranium weaponry was first used in the U.S. bombing of Iraq in 1991, under President George H. W. Bush and Defense Secretary Dick Cheney.

6. Depleted uranium weaponry was later used by President Bill Clinton in the NATO "peace-keeping" bombing missions in Bosnia, Kosovo and Serbia. By January 2001, as the 2nd President Bush and Dick Cheney were moving in to the White House, there was a furor in Europe over the news of an alarming increase in leukemia and other cancers amongst the NATO troops who'd served in the Balkans.

7. The World Health Organization suppressed a November 2001 report on the health hazards of depleted uranium by Dr. Keith Baverstock, Head of the WHO's Radiation Protection Division and his team, commissioned by the United Nations. Baverstock's report, "Radiological Toxicity of Depleted Uranium", detailed the significant danger of airborne vaporized depleted uranium particles, already considerably more prevalent in Iraq than the Balkans due to the difference in military tactics, because they are taken into the body by inhaling and ingesting, and then their size and solubility determines how quickly they move through the respiratory, circulatory and gastrointestinal systems, attacking and poisoning from within as they travel, and where the damages occur. In addition, the report warns that the particles tend to settle in the soft tissue of the testes, and may cause mutations in sperm. In 2004 Dr. Baverstock, no longer at the WHO, released the report through Rob Edwards at Scotland's Sunday Herald.

8. The George W. Bush/Dick Cheney administration twisted the meaning of the failure of the World Health Organization to produce evidence of depleted uranium's health hazards, turning it into evidence that there was no link between exposure to depleted uranium and the increases in cancer in Europe and Iraq; instead, as presented in the January 20, 2003 report by the new Office of Global Communications, ironically titled Apparatus of Lies: Saddam's Disinformation and Propaganda 1990 - 2003, the depleted uranium uproar was only an exploitation of fear and suffering. Two months later, Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz-Rice began to "Shock and Awe" Baghdad by again dropping tons of depleted uranium bombs on densely populated areas.

9. On March 27, 2003, significant increases in depleted uranium particles in the atmosphere were detected by the air sampler filter systems of the Atomic Weapons Establishment at 8 different sites near Aldermaston Berkshire, Great Britain, and continued at 4-5 times the previous norm until the end of April 2003, after the Coalition forces declared the war over. This information only came to light in a report on January 6, 2006 by Dr. Chris Busby
, due to his diligent fight for access to the data through Britain's Freedom of Information law.

10. We have a new, intelligent President, who is willing to listen. It is up to us to bring this to his attention. THIS IS HOW WE CAN HONOR VETERANS.

***************************************

VALUABLE REFERENCES:

Campaign Against Depleted Uranium. http://www.cadu.org.uk/ Founded by one of the great long-time scientist/activists, Dr. Rosalie Bertell.

International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons (ICBUW) is probably the best of the best all-in-one place http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/.

Department of Defense description of self-sharpening depleted uranium: click here

Dr. Keith Baverstock's November 2001 report, suppressed by the World Health Organization:
Rob Edwards article on Baverstock: http://www.robedwards.com/2004/02/who_suppressed_.html

Karen Parker, a Human Rights and Humanitarian Law Lawyer: http://www.webcom.com/hrin/parker.html Scroll down on the page and you'll find her documents on DU.

January 2003 White House Report - Apparatus of Lies: http://www.whitehouse.gov/ogc/apparatus/suffering.html

January 2006 Chris Busby report: click here

Authors Website: http://oneperson-knowmore.blogspot.com

Authors Bio: "Look around. You're not alone, and you know what we need to know. So go tell it on the mountains and in the cities. From your websites and laptops, tell it. From the street corners and coffeehouse, tell it. From delis and diners, tell it. From the workshop and the bookstore, tell it. On campus, at the mall, the synagogue, sanctuary and mosque, tell it. Tell it where you can, when you can and while you can. Tell America what we need to know, and we may just rekindle the patriot dream." -- Bill Moyers (as Studs Terkel calls him, "my North Star"), June 7, 2008 at the National Conference on Media Reform. . . I am a working mom living in the very red state of Utah who began to really pay attention in 2003 and began sharing what I found out in 2004 -- with "Know Bush Facts", a series of 40 emailed statements that culminated with "Know Bush: Launching Facts That Shock & Awe, A One Person Patriot Act" -- a presentation of the best of the facts retold for theatre -- in October 2004. I continue to write about the hypocrisies I study, believing that what the Bush administration has done goes far beyond partisan disagreement and should be known. I've learned that it isn't that hard to discover the bit of information that puts the news we see into a much greater perspective. I don't need to bash. I don't even need to convince. I simply need to reveal what is going on behind the tap dancing.


Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Honor-Vets-by-Learning-Abo-by-Barbara-Bellows-Te-081111-169.html


Edited by Pheonix_Renewed (11/13/08 10:46 PM)

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#14397 - 11/13/08 10:56 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Fist]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Quote:
Haven't you figured out yet that you're not supposed to come back alive?


Dev? Is that you? Damn, we need to talk....

I know a great many people who have gone and returned to tell the tale, only to go again, and again.

I know quite a few people who actually enjoy this line of work. For some, combat seems normal and the normal world is hard for them.

Obama will not 'end' the war, and there will be no draft.

Next slide....


I'm not anyone who has posted here before. I know that it's something that people hate to hear, but I do feel it's important for everyone to know. I'm willing to risk the ridicule, even knowing that the chances are pretty good that no one will listen.

As far as the draft, Mr. Obama has stated that he will institute a draft, and that, in direct and clear violation of the 13th Amendment of the United States Constitution he will also institute compulsory civilian paramilitary service for everyone between the ages of 18-25. These are his own statements, not mine. He and Mr. Rahm Emmanuel have made it very clear that the US WILL have mandatory service for EVERY youth in the US, and that community service will be "requested" of the elderly.

The draft will be increased to include everyone up to age 42. Again, his statements, not mine.

Anyway, the last part I will post about is RFID, then I will drop the issue unless someone honestly wants to speak with me on it. You're welcome to mock and deride me as you wish to, I won't bother you further with it. There's no real reason to beat a dead horse. If people don't read the links I've posted so far, then belaboring the point will just anger everyone all the way around.

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#14398 - 11/13/08 11:29 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Okay, here's some stuff about chipping. Basically, I know of 12 men or women who joined the military in the last 6 months, and every one of them has stated that they were "chipped" to prevent them from going AWOL. Of the 12, only 4 were upset about it, all 4 of them, however; were upset because "it is the mark of the beast." All of them took it anyway, those 4 under threat of dishonorable discharge. That's anecdotal, though, so feel free to disregard it, obviously.

One link with an excellent video docu: http://www.uruknet.biz/?p=m27477&hd=0&size=1&l=t

Also:

http://www.antichips.com/flyers/involuntary-microchipping.pdf

WHY ADVOCATES AND LAWMAKERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT INVOLUNTARY MICROCHIPPING

If you do not believe the threat of involuntary microchipping is real, please take a moment to read over the following disquieting developments. Taken together, they reveal a focused effort to promote human microchipping. The time to nip this trend in the bud is now.

• In 2005, VeriChip tried to chip the residents of Orange Grove Center, a facility in Chattanooga, Tennessee, that cares for the developmentally disabled. VeriChip offered to inject the devices for free to promote its product, but was ultimately rebuffed when the public questioned whether it was ethical to chip people who could not give informed consent. [1]

• Also in 2005, Tommy Thompson, former Secretary of Health and Human Services and 2008 presidential candidate, joined the board of directors for the VeriChip Corporation. He has used his Bush administration connections to promote the device, and has appeared on national television suggesting that every American should receive a VeriChip implant to link to their electronic medical records. Thompson also suggested using the VeriChip to replace dog tags in our armed forces. [2]

• The VeriChip Corporation claims to have been in talks with the Pentagon about implanting RFID tags into military personnel. [4]

• VeriChip CEO Scott Silverman publicly suggested that the U.S. government adopt the VeriChip implant to tag and track legal immigrants and guest workers. [Note: It is unclear to us how chipping undocumented immigrants will solve the problem of illegal immigration.] [5]

• The Congressional Record shows that Colombian President Álvaro Uribe told Senator Arlen Specter that he would consider chipping guest workers before allowing them to leave Colombia for the United States. [6]

• During the September 2005 Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Justice John Roberts, Senator Joseph Biden commented, "Can a microscopic tag be implanted in a person's body to track his every movement? There's actual discussion about that. You will rule on that — mark my words — before your tenure is over." [7]

• In 2004, employees of the Mexican Attorney General's office were asked to receive a chip implant to access a secure document room. Eighteen were actually chipped, and those who refused were reportedly reassigned. [8]

• In 2006, two employees of CityWatcher, a Cincinnati, Ohio, video surveillance company were implanted with VeriChips to access a secure room. While the company reportedly did not require the workers to get chipped, the incident worried employees around the country. Could employers make taking a chip a condition for employment? [9]

• New Jersey's oldest and largest insurer, Horizon Blue Cross and Blue Shield, is currently working with the Hackensack Regional Medical Center and VeriChip to develop a business case for the chipping of people. Privacy and civil liberties advocates caution that insurers could one day require customers to get chipped, or they could offer significant premium penalties for those who refuse. [10]

• IBM holds a major stake in the VeriChip Corporation. IBM has sworn public documents on file at the United States Patent and Trademark office detailing how marketers and government agents can track humans with RFID technology. [12] [13]

• IBM and VeriChip have set up a test laboratory in Austin, Texas, to explore the case for human chipping. [14]

• Since the VeriChip Corporation recently took its stock public, it's under increasing pressure from its share holders to generate revenues. VeriChip has announced plans to devote $8 to $10 million of its IPO proceeds to promote the chipping of people. [15] At a recent Florida Marlins baseball game, VeriChip purchased a prominent bill board reading "Microchip Implants Save Live." Hundreds of thousands of people were exposed to this message and likely believed it, despite the fact that no one's life has been saved by an implanted microchip. No mention was made of the serious potential health downsides of the implant. [16]

• Other companies that offer implant technology to identify and track lab rats, cattle, and pets could follow the pattern of the VeriChip Corporation and begin promoting human identification and tracking. One such company, Somark, has developed "chipless" RFID that can be injected into skin like a tattoo to track animals from a distance through radio waves. The company has suggested its product would be ideal for tracking members of the military. [17]

About this document: A version of this document was first submitted as testimony to the Oklahoma Senate Committee on Health & Human Services in support of Oklahoma Senate Bill 47, "Prohibiting the Forced Implantation of a Microchip." The authors are Liz McIntyre and Dr. Katherine Albrecht, CASPIAN Consumer Advocates and Co-authors of the "Spychips" series of books on Radio Frequency Identification (RFID). All rights reserved.

Sources
1. Emily Berry, "Chips Spark Ethics Concerns," Chattanooga Free Press, 4 November 2005, available at available at http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/nwo_chips_spark_ethics _concerns.html , accessed 6 February 2007.
2. Katherine Albrecht, "Transcript of Interview with Tommy Thompson Former U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services," 11 July 2005, available at
http://www.spychips.com/devices/tommythompsonverichip.html .
3. Katherine Skiba, "Bid for president called a long shot, Thompson launches PAC, considers run for White House,"JSOnline, 14 October 2006, available at
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=519075 , accessed 6 February 2007.
4. David Francis and Bill Myers, "Company Trying to Get Under Soldiers' Skin," Examiner.com, 21 August 2006, available at http://www.examiner.com/a-232630~Company_trying_to_get_under_soldiers__skin.html?setEdition=Miami , accessed 6 February 2007.
5. Fox News, "Transcript of the Fox & Friends interview with Scott Silverman, Chairman of the Board of VeriChip Corporation," 16 May 2006, available at http://www.spychips.com/press-releases/silverman-foxnews.html , accessed 6 February 2007.
6. Associated press, "Report: Colombian President Would Consider Immigrant Tracking With Microchips," FoxNews.com, 4 May 2006, available at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194337,00.html, accessed 6 February 2007.
7. WashingtonPost.com, "Transcript: Day One of the Roberts Hearings," 13 September 2005, available at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/13 /AR2005091300693.html, accessed 6 February 2006.
8. Will Weissert, "Microchips Implanted in Mexican Officials," MSNBC, 14 July 2004, available at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5439055/, accessed 6 February 2007.
9. Katherine Albrecht and Liz McIntyre, "Two U.S. Employees Injected with RFID Microchips at Company Request," Spychips.com, 9 February 2006, available at http://www.spychips.com/press-releases/us-employees-verichipped.html , accessed 6 February 2007.
10. M.L. Baker, "Insurers Study Implanting RFID Chips in Patients," eWeek.com, 19 July 2006, available at http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1991150,00.asp , accessed 7 February 2007.
12. John R. Hind et al, "Identification and Tracking of Persons Using RFID-tagged Items," US Patent Application # 20020165758, assigned to IBM. Filed 3 May 2001.
13. Hind et al, "Identification and Tracking of Persons Using RFID-tagged Items in Store Environments," US Patent # 7,076,441, assigned to IBM, filed on 3 May 2001, granted 11 July 2004.
14. Health Data Management, "VeriChip, IBM Demonstrate RFID Tech," 12 September 2005, available at http://www.healthdatamanagement.com/portals/article.cfm?type=mobile_tech&articleId=12531 , accessed 6 February 2007.
15. VeriChip Corporation, "Amendment No. 6 to FORM S-1 REGISTRATION STATEMENT under The Securities Act of 1933," 22 January 2007, available at
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1347022/000119312507009620/ds1a.htm , accessed 6 February 2007.
16. To view the television coverage of the Marlins game, including the advertisement banner, see: http://www.truthcastnetwork.com/marlins.htm
17. David E. Gumpert, "Privacy Controversy Dogs RFID Startup, How can a company that makes radio frequency identification ink for use on animals and humans head off bloggers' criticism?," BusinessWeek.com, 25 January 2007, available at http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/con...vid+e.+gumpert.
18. Introduced by Wisconsin Representative Marvin D. Schneider, "2005 Assembly Bill 290 enacted as 2005 Wisconsin Act 482," enacted 30 May 2006, available at http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2005/data/acts/05Act482.pdf.


Edited by Pheonix_Renewed (11/13/08 11:30 PM)

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#14413 - 11/14/08 08:08 AM Obama & VeriChip [Re: Pheonix_Renewed]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I've been a regular visitor of a couple of underground NWO-watch lists until not too long ago.
With one of them I've been befriended since ages. As far as you can befriend with someone at the other side of the world when your only contact is email. I'm not a too big fan of conspiracy and he and I mostly talked and shared ideas about ethics and morality. We bumped heads too often on conspiracy subjects so we decided to agree to disagree and stick to other preferences we liked to talk about.

Something remarkable happened but more about that later on.

Not too long ago, those sites had articles upon Verichip and Obama. I'm quoting from memory here so don't take it as a blind truth.
Apparantly after Obama ran for candidate, he sat around the table with VeriChip at some point. Don't ask me dates or names because I can't remember. The article had them but I didn't pay much attention to it at that time. I didn't find it that interesting.

Anyways, it's no secret that VeriChip tries to officialize it's implants. They'd probably had talks with the other side too, most companies bet on two horses because certainly one will reach the finish. The articles mentioned funding using the public donations channel. It's a safe way to secretly transfer money to someone without pointing all the arrows at you. None ever wondered why Obama could get so much money donated while at the same time stating to not take money from lobbyists or special interest committees.
Anyways it seems that the general approach was to insert VeriChips goals through Obama's healthplan goals. Or a secondary route and take the emotional path and use children and their protection as a stimulus. If you can chip the children, it takes only time to reach your goal and you don't have to battle adult people that actually are old enough to use their brain.
This is about the bulk of what was in the articles I read. It was more specific and had dates and places but like I said, I didn't care too much when reading it.

I would have copied them here or provided a link but, as I mentioned before, the remarkable part is that those sites seem to have disappeared. They used IP addresses and I just can't find them any longer. The same with my friend. I lost contact with him too and his hot- and gmail address just bounce back as if it doesn't exist.

Again, there might be a perfectly plausible reason for it so I’m not going to speculate. If I am able to make contact again, I might know the reason.

I just wanted to share this -sadly due to circumstances not too reliable- sourced information on your concerns about the VeriChip subject.

D.

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#14416 - 11/14/08 10:38 AM Re: Obama & VeriChip [Re: Diavolo]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Thanks, Diavolo. I do have some sources on how the progression of chipping goes, if you'd like me to post them. First they started with cows, to replace branding. Then they moved to pets-- you don't want to lose your dear pet, do you? From there, they begin chipping the hated of society, like prisoners. Then they move to children and the elderly, after all, what is more terrifying than your mother wandering off in her dementia, or your child being kidnapped? The military is typically in line with the children/elderly progression-- but sometimes sooner, because the military has historically (in our country) been used quite extensively for research. Part of the argument behind this is that "you can't return a killer safely to the populace anyway" so creating a situation where they die faster is no big deal- especially since you the government routinely exempts itself from any and all legal proceedures that would hold them accountable.

That's the stage they are currently at right now. Patients in FL are already "asking for" the chip in case they wander off in their alzheimers. Parents have already begun chipping their children (notice the advert for coppertop batters that shows the "importance" of the batters you use in your child locator), and the most "vile" of society- pedophiles- are already being chipped.

With the advent of the "mandatory service" that Misters Obama and Emmanuel are intending, everyone will begin to be chipped; DNA profiled; finger, eye, and vein printed; innoculated; etc., all without their consent, as a mandatory part of their mandatory endentured servitude. Erm, community paramilitary service, sorry.

This country is up in arms about the horror of taking away women's rights as far as what they do to their bodies, but they don't bat an eye at the idea of prisoners, milistary, elderly, school children, and others being forced to accept innoculations (that are 1000x more potent than needed, and contain contaminants that are extremely dangerous to the brain, yet are deliberately added)... They don't bat an eye at the idea of the "unsavory" and the "vulnerable to lossing them" segments of the population being forced to accept implantation of a chip when they have no ability to choose or not to choose it.

The safety of the chips is still highly in question, yet they are being pushed onto the populace anyway. The FDA cannot be trusted to protect the interests of the average citizen, given that they're nothing more or less than an extortion racket. Literally. This is easy to see, nothing "conspiracy theory-esque" about that. It's abundantly clear, easily seen. They are absolutely and undoubtedly corrupt.

Anyway, let me know if you'd like me to link the progression articles for you on RFID chipping. I don't have any information on Obama meeting with the VeriChip corp, but it doesn't surprise me in the least.

Mr. Obama, for all his claims not to accept money from lobbyists, made millions more in his campaign than did McCain. Of course, Bush oustripped him by tens (was it even hundreds-- I think so) of millions in the amount he raised for his campaign. No one could be surprised by that, though.

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#14420 - 11/14/08 01:00 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: coelentrate]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Yes the American death rate in Iraq is pretty low, and a lot of the soldiers are coming home to their families. I have yet to see an amount of U.S. soldier casualities that I can't count on a single hand from this deployment and My deployment ends in FEB 09 so that should say something right there.
As far as people going back to Iraq a lot of people either ask to or get sent to a duty station that needs people with combat experience. Most of the people that ask to go back actually enjoy it or some got car payments. Their reasons be their own.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#14438 - 11/14/08 10:21 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Ringmaster]
Pheonix_Renewed Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 18
Also, I mentioned to someone that I was talking to a soldier about the chips and the vaccinations and the depleted uranium.

He wrote this, and asked me to post it to you. He knows nothing more about you than that I had mentioned these things to you, and you are a soldier who is very skeptical about my comments.

 Quote:
Firstly, I'm sure he is conviced that the WMD's that we were sent to find are still burried in the desert. let us not foget the factories of mass death, or the yellow cake, or the taliban support, which as any American know were all deceptions.

I'm a vet, I have agent orange and my clock is ticking for my dirt nap. A gift from our noble leaders, who by the way knew this was a toxic substance and casues of multiple diseases.

Our troopers who witnesed the testing of the Nuclear bomb, had on their ponchos and goggles, they were told they were safe. SURE.
I'm sure they were not guini pigs, the Gov. would never do such a thing.

Son, you go on beleiving, this is your right, it is my right not to.

We are doing great, we killed 3 million in Nam, and about 1.4 Million in Iraq, we can all be proud. Though there were no WMD's, the oil companys and Halliburton among others don't seem to mind.

I remember seeing many dead infants and children, I am not a pussywillow, but I shed tears. I suppose i don't live up to the standards of military life. Strange they offered me many benys, more than I can remember. Hell I could be your Battalion commander at this point. However, the innocents slaughtered and our men being killed and crippled for the sake of profits, well son, just doesn't turn me on.

I do not know if you are a grunt, a sniper, artillery, air mobile, nothing about you in fact with the exception you are a soldier.

In all sincerity i hope you come home in one piece, and by the way this 300,000 life insurance, its the peoples money not the Armys.

Perhaps when you return home, if your still in Iraq, I assume you are. The reality of the whys and wherefors of our mililitary being used as expendable will hit upon you, and the fact that over a million Iraqis are dead, and many more maimed by our illegal invasion of a soveriegn and innocent nation.( Infants, Children, Mothers, etc.)
Your enemy , yup, those guys attempting to kill you and your partners, well its kinda their country, and we did invade them and kill their families.

If you were in the USA, and we were invaded under false pretences , would you fight the invaders, if your sons and daughters were blown to pieces would you pick up you M16 and seek revenge?

You are a soldier and belong to the military, fine, but who runs the military. Our illustrious pols. , and who runs them, the big money men.

Oh. hell , beleive as you wish, but simply be carefull of silver tongued men in silk suits and the games they play.

Hell, your family gets 300,000, now thats money, we got 10,000 in Nam, oh well, when you get killed you can die smiling knowing your family is well taken care of.

Trust the Gov. seriously, they care about you, more than you know. They care about the Iraqis too, and the Syrians, and the Afghanistans, in truth it borders on passion. They would never consider deceiving you, they care so much.

A full bird called me asside after a mission breifing, he gave me the riot act. I was kinda new and eager to fight for what I beleived to be our country and stop the red threat.( my upbringing)
He said to me, " your a good soldier sarg, but you have your head up your arse, cool down, we are not here for Ma's apple pie, democracy, freedoms, and the AMerican way, we are here to make money for the MIC, so smarten the f***k up and stay alive.

He was a good man, and that same day I began to think for myself, I stoped listening to the rhetoric that had been pounded into me since early childhood.

I am a rambler, you most probably won't even read this, but I must say, I saw a man carrying the body parts of his two young daughters, squezzing the blood soaked rags to his chest. His mouth was open but no sound was coming out, he was attempting to scream but couldn't.
Ya know I will never forget that till my last day on this earth. $300,000, if i had that amount and I could pay someone to breathe life into this mans daughters they would have it.
Money is money son, its paper, human life is another subject, it has no price. So my friend, trust you superiors and above all trust the politicians. Hell our congress trust themselves, they just got, 700Billion from us. Thats where the money comes from son, not the Army. You are the voice of a percentage, I sincerley hope you dont get you ballls shot of, or cripped and maimed, if so the money means -WHAT?


I'll try to make that my last post, but I really felt that, to honor HIM, the least I could do was post this as requested.

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#89658 - 06/18/14 02:34 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Ringmaster]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6789
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Now we just received a briefing that we are not allowed to lock and load our weapons while on mounted patrols anymore due to "safety reasons". We now have to drive around with our ammo source on the weapons but no round in the chamber. To me this just sounds retarded due to the fact that we are in a war zone.


Any updates to this policy?

Six years later, a lot has changed in arms policy since then.

This appeared on CNN today.

 Quote:
Open to U.S. strikes
On Wednesday, Iraq's government indicated a willingness for the United States military to conduct airstrikes against the radical Islamist militants.

Several U.S. officials said Washington views the situation as "extremely urgent" and is looking to see what more support the United States can provide to the Iraqi government, in addition to weapons and vehicles it has already provided.


The New Yorker featured This article.

 Quote:
The United States now faces the possibility of its third intervention in Iraq. On paper, the two earlier wars quickly achieved their military goals. In 1991, a muscular alliance of thirty-four nations, led by the United States, forced Iraq to withdraw from the tiny city-state of Kuwait in a mere six weeks. In 2003, President Saddam Hussein, after twenty-four years in power, fled Baghdad just three weeks after a token “coalition of the willing” invaded. Yet both wars were ultimately political failures, and the new challenge in Iraq may prove to be even deadlier, with sweeping regional repercussions. Given its deepening sectarian and ethnic divisions—and the absence of a cohesive or effective military—the modern Iraqi state may not hold. Neighboring Syria is already shattered, and the Middle East map—defined by European powers a century ago—may be redrawn, either de facto or formally. Globally, the jihadist threat has never been greater.

The Obama Administration is debating options to salvage Iraq. In the first Iraq war—the Gulf War—the George H. W. Bush Administration deployed more than half a million troops; allies provided another two hundred thousand. Together, they easily overwhelmed the Iraqi military. Oil-rich Gulf states, along with Japan and Germany, picked up much of the tab—roughly sixty billion dollars.


The motive may have changed but now there's a possibility of troop deployments to Iraq to save it from the ebils of Islam.

Today's talk shows were heavy-handed on the threat 'Radical Islam' poses on the rest of the world.

From the same article:

 Quote:
Any plan for stability—whether Iraq remains a single state or breaks into three—has to begin with the underlying political problem. Last week, President Obama called for a multiethnic governing council in Baghdad but, with insurgents less than fifty miles from the capital, that option is now too little, too late.


Bagdad Renaissance Plan

 Quote:
Prevailing views are that political and social instability in the region are making such developments unduly risky, despite a high projected return on investment. Security concerns during the survey and construction phases are currently a cost-prohibitive factor.


Never mind the U.S. investment in Iraq

Heh, reminds me of the Nostradamus Predictions
 Quote:
Nuclear confrontation in the Middle East

A major nuclear confrontation will occur in the Middle East. The aggressor will have broken a promise not to use nuclear weapons in warfare. Naval fleets kept in the area by other powers will be scattered in ruins from the violence of the blast.

Radioactive fallout will have adverse effects on people, animals, and weather; and erupting volcanoes will turn the water of that part of the ocean a muddy red color. Because of this, bodies will appear to float in blood. Because of the blasts and earth changes, rivers will change their course, and political boundary lines based on them will be redrawn.

The U.S. will have a Democratic president at the time. He will get involved with the conflict as a way of trying to stimulate the economy from a depression.


More or less. From what I remember from the actual words written by Nos, was that he just saw a man in a turban overseeing a great fire to consume the enemy.

From the BBC

 Quote:
Reports say 44 prisoners were killed during fighting at a police station in the city.


Yeah so, lock and load fellas.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

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#89754 - 06/20/14 03:08 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: SIN3]
theharkonnen Offline
member


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 218
I am sorry, but if we end up going into Iraq for a third time, I will literally LOL so hard, that I might just die.

I mean I thought I knew stupid. But that would just take the cake.

But hey, maybe the third time is the charm.

Also, I have to admit. Isis is doing it all right in terms of tactics. I mean, they are aggressive, have high morale, and are determined to win. They waited until we left, which was also a good move. These guys know what they are doing and might just win.

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#89763 - 06/20/14 08:38 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: theharkonnen]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
It would not shock me in the least to learn (200 years from now) that the US and Iran are actually very close allies and have *always* been - just can't date in public :p

If you think about (and this is a minor example)

1) do we have sanctions and trade embargoes in place? Yes.

2) does this mean that no US company can do business with Iran? Yes.

3) does this include M$? Yes.

4) How the shit did Stuxnet even happen, then? *exploited 4 0-day vulnerabilities in an OS they were not even supposed to have legally - sure piracy is a thing, that's fine, but who in their right mind would use pirated OSs to run nuclear reactors? "We" the US only lifted the ban last year. What was going on before that?

I am to believe a country (of notoriously intelligent people) runs fucking nuclear reactors on pirated software? oooo k :p

*Random tangent - and I have literally nothing to back this up, but intuitively I think ISIS is very much one of "our" creations.


Edited by antikarmatomic (06/20/14 08:56 PM)
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#89772 - 06/21/14 08:53 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
I have literally no thing to back this up, but intuitively I think ISIS is very much one of "our" creations.


Upon hearing this news last week I am left with this distinct question, "Who the fuck is ISIS?" I had never heard that name before then. This situation has me thinking something similar, along with, "what are they drawing attention away from?"

I view the last 12 years of US involvement in that region as great theater. Featuring shows like, Osama! - The 9 year hunt for someone with end stage renal disease.

What ever comes of this latest saber rattling, insurgency, or civil unrest is just more "strategery". Enjoy the show.

Personal Rant: Defense spending pays my bills so if the US wants to pick another random country to invade that'd be great. Contracts need to be renewed, and with the redirection of funds elsewhere that's not a given. A new war is pragmatic from my stance... likely others as well...

_________________________
Broke his leg and had to be shot...

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#89773 - 06/21/14 10:55 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: antikarmatomic]
theharkonnen Offline
member


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 218
I seriously doubt that the US and Iran are allies.

We gave Iraq tanks and materials during the Iraq-Iran conflict, which I am sure they are still pissed off about. In addition, we once had a puppet in Iran, but the people of Iran overthrew him, put into place a government less US friendly, and that government is still there today.

In addition, the US LOVES Israel, and Iran wants to "Wipe Israel off the map", so that doesn't help much. Plus, we allow Israel to have nukes unofficially, while condemning Iran's program, so that doesn't help either.

In addition, North Korea and Iran are buddies.

So all in all, for these reasons, I seriously doubt the US and Iran are buddies.

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#89774 - 06/21/14 11:28 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: theharkonnen]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
You talk about these countries like they were people..they aren't..

Do you really think you are privy to the backroom dealings and politics that form these strange bedfellows type relationships? Do you think what governments feed you through media is transparent truth?

Machiavelli is laughing at you from his grave.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#89786 - 06/21/14 07:44 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: Dan_Dread]
theharkonnen Offline
member


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 218
LOL.

So on one hand, conspiracy theory can be dismissed, but on the other hand, Iran and the US are secret allies. Sorry, but even that is too farfetched.

Anyway, my information is from recent history, not the media. Unless you are one of those Holocaust never happened people, how can one doubt history? While it is true that history is written by the victors, one cannot create a truth with no basis in reality. Although the Russians have done it (WW2=the Great Patriotic War to them), but only with limited success.

I have actually studied political theory. You have the "rational actor" perspective, which states that all states do what is most rational and in their self-interest. However, very few states actually embody this. If fact, dictatorships are more likely to. I believe this is what Machiavelli argued for, if I remember correctly, as it is more rational to be feared than loved. Shang Yang makes Machiavelli look like a pussy, so I don't pay attention to Machiavelli much.

The real answer is the bureaucratic model, for most states, which is basically about how decisions are made via how much support one can get internally through other people in power. Since bargains are struck, rationality goes out the door.

Therefore, in Iran's case, I would argue that most people in power want to see America's place reduced, since this would leave a gap for them to exploit financially. China would buy the oil we want and this would reduce the need for the petrodollar. This is the rational perspective. If instead they wanted something less rational, such as the domination of Islam in the Middle East, same outcome. If those in power simply want more votes, then again, demonize America.

So, unless all Iranians are traitors to their own country, I do not think this is the case. As stated, I have historical, bureaucratic, and rational reasoning.

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#89795 - 06/21/14 08:49 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: theharkonnen]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Well, just mull it over - I mean, if we're such enemies, why haven't we been to war at all. Just step outside the box a second - all I'm saying.

Yes, we sold weapons to Iraq and we sold them to Iran too back in 88. Now, if you talk to an average Irani - I swear they see Iraqis in the same light niggers see southerners - (or southerners see niggers - either or) it's the funniest thing if you mention an Iraqi to an Irani.

Just when you thought you had a handle on what prejudice is - that shit'll make the KKK look even sillier than they do.

So___ if Arabia and Persia (Iraq and Iran) are eternally at war, well, who did who the favor?

We took out "who" exactly, oh, right, Iraq. Even though we should have *more *beef with Iran. This doesn't raise at least one eyebrow? Shit! Why not spread democracy to Iran too?

They're the ones chanting "marg barg shaitan bozorg", no?

Meanwhile Israel exists because... wait why? Well, 1) it was shit-land people were more than eager to sell and 2) the holocaust happened where? Carve up Germany, then.

History is simply not all black and white. This is chess, not checkers.

Remember, since the ability to harness fixed nitrogen, we got 8 (or 9) billion people on a planet that can realistically only hold 2.

This life raft is sinking, but if you play your cards right, ya just might make it - and this isn't school-yard politics.

There's levels - all is not as it appears.


Edited by antikarmatomic (06/21/14 09:13 PM)
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#89849 - 06/23/14 09:39 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: antikarmatomic]
theharkonnen Offline
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Posts: 218
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
Well, just mull it over - I mean, if we're such enemies, why haven't we been to war at all. Just step outside the box a second - all I'm saying.


So, if we don't fight each other, this automatically makes us friends? So, then the Soviet Union and the US were secretly best pals as well?

The only reason we helped the Soviet Union during WWII was that we preferred Stalin over Hitler (Well, at least Churchill did). As he said he would ally with the devil himself to defeat Hitler.

 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic

We took out "who" exactly, oh, right, Iraq. Even though we should have *more *beef with Iran. This doesn't raise at least one eyebrow? Shit! Why not spread democracy to Iran too?


Well, we did Iraq because:

1. We invaded it before.

2. Iraq was much weaker than Iran.

3. US politicians honestly believed that we would be hailed as "liberators" when we invaded

4. The most influential reason, not normally discussed, was that Iraq was selling oil on the open market, without OPEC's blessing, and cheaper. Thus, Iraq was a threat to Saudi Arabia indirectly. Since Bush was a Saudi lap dog, this makes sense.

5. If you look on a map where Iran is, it is situated right in between Iraq and Afghanistan. So, the true target could have been Iran all along, as we know what happened to Germany when it fought two front wars.

I think it didn't pan out because we were bogged down in Iraq with the insurgency and other countries like North Korea were making threatening moves. Also considering we deployed the National Guard in Iraq, we clearly didn't have enough troops either. Plus, American support quickly waned after the first couple years.

Plus, there was a naval war game in 2005 between two American admirals. One played Iran, one America. The admiral playing Iran had only speedboats basically versus a carrier fleet. Basically, the admiral used some speedboats as diversions, while packing others with explosives. When the US ship defenses ran out of ammo, he assaulted the ships with the speed boats with explosives. In the scenario, he manged to sink a carrier.

This means that Iran would not be a walk in the park as Iraq was. Plus, Iran invented chess, so they are pretty smart too. Therefore, the risk was high for many more casualties.

 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic

Meanwhile Israel exists because... wait why? Well, 1) it was shit-land people were more than eager to sell and 2) the holocaust happened where? Carve up Germany, then.


History is simply not all black and white. This is chess, not checkers.[/quote]

You do realize chess is black and white too? There are only two sides. I think you are referring more to "Global Chess" in that there are many levels and sides. Right now the Chinese and Russian sides have the upper hand.

Ignorance is the main tool, I think, not misinformation. To spread misinformation is a bit riskier and more work than just relying on ignorance. Especially, when people choose to be ignorant.

 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
Remember, since the ability to harness fixed nitrogen, we got 8 (or 9) billion people on a planet that can realistically only hold 2.


I agree completely. Well, the UN itself said that if China was to have a middle class the size of the US middle class, it would be unsustainable.

Most people dump pollutants in water and other resources that we simply will not have enough of in the future(Thank you fracking and industry). So this is one reason I don't think much of the intelligence of leaders. On one hand they should want a large population, since it means more votes and bigger tax base, but in the long-term, they have killed more people off.

Again, you are assuming leaders are rational, which they are clearly not.




Edited by theharkonnen (06/23/14 09:55 AM)

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#89851 - 06/23/14 09:54 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: antikarmatomic]
theharkonnen Offline
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Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 218
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
Just when you thought you had a handle on what prejudice is - that shit'll make the KKK look even sillier than they do.


I wanted to answer this separately because this brings up a good point.

Racism was common 100 years ago. Churchill, himself considered a great hero, thought Africans, Asians, and Muslims were all inferior to whites. Hence he underestimated the Ottomons at Gallipoli during WWI.

Now if you want conspiracy, here's a fact. Most of the leaders during WWI were cousins (The Russian Tsar, The English rulers, and German rulers). Yet they had no problem killing their own people off.

Anyway, I think racism is one reason that Iran and America are not pals.

1. When I was in middle school, whites were a minority. So we whites stuck together. This may be racist, but in an area where drugs are rampant, you did this to survive, regardless of ethics. When we moved to a rural area, there were no blacks and Hispanics, like in my middle school. So I assumed everyone stuck together. WRONG. They found things, like my yellow teeth, to make fun of.

Therefore, humans naturally divided themselves from potential allies. If not by race, by something else.

2. When I was in college, I witnessed something that explained the world to me. There were three squirrels, one grey and two black. The grey squirrel found some fruit leftovers in a garbage can and nibbled on it. The black squirrels watched but did not approach. After the grey squirrel left, the black squirrels came in and nibbled on the fruit that the grey squirrel left. And the black squirrels fought each other for it.

This was like the rich and poor. The grey squirrel was considered too powerful for the black squirrels and so the poor black squirrels fought each other for the scraps. Now if only they joined forces, they would outnumber the grey squirrel and overthrow him and the black squirrels would benefit. But this is how the world works. The rulers make sure the ruled are divided. Of course, given the French Revolution, this makes sense. Rulers know how vulnerable they are, and use ignorance to ensure people do not realize the same. Lest they end up in the guillotine.

Shang Yang also said that morality does not exist. Similar to my squirrel example, he observed rats. He found that people give to the poor only when they have resources to do so. When they become poor, these same people will steal for food. Therefore morality depends on circumstances and not a universal code, meaning it is inconsistent, and therefore only exists in ignorant mind.

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#89855 - 06/23/14 10:24 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: theharkonnen]
SIN3 Offline
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Political argument aside, any one have any updates on the policy? Are troops allowed to carry loaded weapons? Does it have to be officially declared a 'war zone' to detain Iraqi police?

Anyone?
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#89866 - 06/23/14 05:51 PM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: theharkonnen]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Well played. *yes I am familiar with the history / how Sunnis differ from Shia, where Iraq and Iran are on a map (and Syria) / operation Ajex / all that standard stuff - hell I'm fairly conversant in Farsi which ain't bad for a white-dude ;\)

so this makes it all the more puzzling:

 Quote:
5. If you look on a map where Iran is, it is situated right in between Iraq and Afghanistan. So, the true target could have been Iran all along, as we know what happened to Germany when it fought two front wars.


This makes it all the more curious to me, though, I would look south of Iran into the UAE (which has an awfully neat way of nullifying our trade embargoes into Iran)

Mind you, this is all off-the-rip, and superficially the US and Iran are not allies, but for someone who isn't our ally we certainly seem to be doing them more than a few indirect favors.

 Quote:
So, if we don't fight each other, this automatically makes us friends? So, then the Soviet Union and the US were secretly best pals as well?


Well, our antagonism certainly drove up a market for arms and complicity in "our" citizenry

Duck and cover "You must obey the civil defense worker" \:\)



Edited by antikarmatomic (06/23/14 05:57 PM)
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#90238 - 06/28/14 11:23 AM Re: Iraq bullshit!!! [Re: antikarmatomic]
theharkonnen Offline
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Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 218
 Quote:
Mind you, this is all off-the-rip, and superficially the US and Iran are not allies, but for someone who isn't our ally we certainly seem to be doing them more than a few indirect favors.


Actually think about this subject further, we may actually be helping Iran, but not in the direct way you think. It might be our foreign policy is so poorly planned that it actually helps Iran. So indirectly, we are helping them.

There is a thing in Daoism called Wuwei ("Actionless Action"). In strategic terms it says that you should give the enemy enough breathing space to hang themselves (This is my interpretation, a Doaist would never say this for they like peace). We seem to be doing that quite well.

Also, in strategic thinker circles, it is said the West plays chess and the East Go. Go is about outmaneuvering your opponents, chess about taking out opponents. Think about that for a minute. Although this probably has to do more with China than Iran.


Edited by theharkonnen (06/28/14 11:23 AM)

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