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#114791 - 10/17/17 12:09 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: Dan_Dread]
entropicmomentum Offline
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Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
That's obviously fake news perpetrated by the Gravitite Elites. They are lying to you for the sake of... I don't know.

A coworker recently sent me a text about how we've all been lied to about gravity and that it's all about the electric universe. I used to think he had a critical enough eye to avoid being sucked into conspiracy theories, especially ones surrounding science, but I have a bad habit of overestimating people.
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#114793 - 10/17/17 12:15 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: entropicmomentum]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 819
Loc: Oregon
So if we do solve the big bang and the electric universe, I suppose Aquino is right and this all leads us to one question: Is this good for the company...?
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#114796 - 10/17/17 01:50 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Phoenician Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 54
Loc: CA
 Quote:
So if we do solve the big bang and the electric universe, I suppose Aquino is right and this all leads us to one question: Is this good for the company...?


Yesterday's headline:

"CERN Scientists Unlock The Beginning of the Universe."

AP (Geneva) - CERN scientists say that the existence of bosons (fermions and barryons) have been confirmed to exist in high powered sudden releases of energy...

Apologist: "Well what caused the sudden burst of energy if it wasn't God? See, this confirms what I believe. The Universe needs a creator!"

Conceptually, it's another layer with the same question. People are wired for chickens and eggs and this doesnt answer the question.

The effect on the company's outlook is negligible until spontaneity is considered a solution to the infinite regress paradox. But even then you have to concede to a truly infinite "subspace".
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#114799 - 10/18/17 09:51 AM Re: Electric Universe [Re: Phoenician]
felidae Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/30/17
Posts: 41
"It's turtles...All the way down."

Yet we still don't have an accurate model to explain consciousness. Or the evolution of the vertebrate eye. Or the breakdown of reality at the level of the electron, or in the event horizons of the largest collapsed stars. Or how some infinities are larger or smaller than others, Wrap your head around THAT.
There was a BBC (I think) documentary called "Dangerous Knowledge" about Georg Cantor, and a handful of other gifted mathematicians who all went insane or killed themselves trying to conceptualize infinity.

A fun watch.

DOC


Edited by felidae (10/18/17 09:54 AM)

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#114801 - 10/18/17 10:31 AM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
entropicmomentum Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: felidae
Yet we still don't have an accurate model to explain consciousness. Or the evolution of the vertebrate eye. Or the breakdown of reality at the level of the electron, or in the event horizons of the largest collapsed stars. Or how some infinities are larger or smaller than others, Wrap your head around THAT.


By that logic, none of our current science works at all because at one point none of these models existed and nobody had the answers.

Just because something cannot currently be fully explained doesn't mean that will always be the case or that some fill-in-the-blank shit somebody pulled out of their ass is the answer. Having a dishonest answer is not a good substitute for "I don't know".

I should add, the evolution of an eyeball can be explained. Don't be lazy and just regurgitate old arguments that have been addressed. Irreducible complexity is horseshit.
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#114802 - 10/18/17 12:00 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
Phoenician Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 54
Loc: CA
A lack of evidence does not infer existence.

 Quote:
Yet we still don't have an accurate model to explain consciousness.


I don't think any current answer can pin that beyond its a production of neural complexity. As something like a Jellyfish, with a single nerve that controls contraction and release of nematocysts cannot "think". 

 Quote:
Or the evolution of the vertebrate eye.


As opposed to an invertebrate eye, like an octopus, which uses its eye to solve puzzles and predict sporting events.

 Ocular evolution is understood.  

 Quote:
Or the breakdown of reality at the level of the electron


Well, that's what we get for looking at it.

That's why it's called the "uncertainty principle".

 Quote:
or in the event horizons of the largest collapsed stars.


Yes, but science can surmise curvature around super-massive objects and conclude you pass a point of no return as space/time dilates. Unless "white holes" exist, or you're some of the stuff that escapes it... (pictured below)



 Quote:
Or how some infinities are larger or smaller than others, Wrap your head around THAT.


Zomg. I have entered a transcendental state where my existential being is woven into the fabric of reality... Numerically, that's pretty easy to wrap my head around. 

 Quote:
There was a BBC (I think) documentary called "Dangerous Knowledge" about Georg Cantor, and a handful of other gifted mathematicians who all went insane or killed themselves trying to conceptualize infinity.


 Really? L-O-Fucking-L.  Is that like the paradoxes that can kill robots? Does a set of all sets contain itself?

"Nothingness", a state of nonexistence is hard to conceptualize too, yet we're all going there. Maybe they were testing it?

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#114803 - 10/18/17 12:21 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: Phoenician]
felidae Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/30/17
Posts: 41
Are you guys evolutionary biologists? That was down my alley and it's still being pawed at, just like a working model for consciousness. And saying "We will explain it some day" is as much a crock of shit as our forebears worshiping the Sun. Keep trying. Look it up. Obviously you didn't with your reductive near monosyllabic arguments as to why everything's OKAY in the sciences.
IT AIN'T.
Our minds can't grasp infinity, for instance...Some of our most gifted minds tried to and blew their own. Einstein and Newton both saw the dangers of going down those cognitive roads...Like the old world maps that warned "Here be dragons" and avoided it like the plague.
So many LHP types are utterly convinced of their own "certainties" that other people have explained for them. They don't even try to understand what they regurgitate ad nauseum. Regular new age crap isn't edgy enough for them so they jump on the LaVeyan bandwagon. Hey, at least he made a buck off it, huh? lol

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#114804 - 10/18/17 01:05 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
Phoenician Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 54
Loc: CA
Ah, my trigger. 

 Quote:
And saying "We will explain it some day" is as much a crock of shit as our forebears worshiping the Sun. Keep trying. Look it up.


As opposed to saying, "I already have the answer"?

Saying "we might explain it some day" does not include time frame.

These questions are also of minimal importance in my day to day. It really doesn't matter, but it's intriguing.

For Example: I used to be high on M-Theory, but now I'm thinking SVT, and that might stick or may be replaced when something I like more comes along.

"We will explain it some day" fits perfectly for someone who doesn't think they already have the answer.

And these are just MY current arguments, only speak for me, and are subject to change.

Moving on. Worshipping the sun.

 Quote:
Our minds can't grasp infinity, for instance...Some of our most gifted minds tried to and blew their own. Einstein and Newton both saw the dangers of going down those cognitive roads...Like the old world maps that warned "Here be dragons" and avoided it like the plague.


Now say, "And even Einstein said there might be a god", that's usually common with this argument.

You don't know my mind, I grasp infinity fine, that's your mind that can't grasp it.

 In fact it provides me the best counter to the apologetic arguments I come accross...

 Quote:
Atheist:  If God created the universe what created God.

apologist: God always existed.

atheist: Then why the fuck can't we say that about the universe having existed in some form...


Be it vacuum, bulk, or the many yet to come, more expansive pre-inflation theories.
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#114805 - 10/18/17 02:15 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
entropicmomentum Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: felidae
Obviously you didn't with your reductive near monosyllabic arguments as to why everything's OKAY in the sciences.
IT AIN'T.


Funny to see the above followed by the below. Acknowledging problems in science is actually the opposite of being utterly convinced of one's own certainties (love the redundancy btw).

 Originally Posted By: felidae
So many LHP types are utterly convinced of their own "certainties" that other people have explained for them.


In case you missed it, my point was that it's perfectly rational to be uncertain rather than accepting an answer on the grounds that it is an answer. Who are you talking to?

Yeah, obviously there are problems in science. No fucking shit. As you mentioned, the problem of consciousness is still a problem., as an example. Should I just accept dualism in the meantime?
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#114807 - 10/18/17 08:11 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Amarillo, TX
felidae,

"Just because science doesn't have an answer to every question right now doesn't mean any given crackpot alternative does"

=/=

"Science is perfect!"
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#114808 - 10/18/17 09:56 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: XiaoGui17]
felidae Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/30/17
Posts: 41
Scientists are detectives, I used to be one. We make assumptions, then try to prove those assumptions valid. It either works or it doesn't. Now in the case of the experiment where you can pinpoint an electron in space-time when you THINK about pinpointing it, but when you aren't thinking about pinpointing it and it's effectively everywhere at once, as a field...How do you prove that? Now when you reach a level on the event horizon of a black hole and literally all physical laws break down...How do you prove why?
You can't.
If you don't have an accurate model for what consciousness IS, you can't explain how it effects an electron. As in almost the electron is aware it's being observed and alters its behavior.
Einstein believed in the god of Spinoza...A concept so abstruse that it's not really a God per se. But a concept that works for people that don't believe in the dime-store godhead. Interestingly, Spinoza's God had in infinite number of characteristics, of which we can only ever know two (I think, it's been awhile)

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#114809 - 10/18/17 10:49 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3924
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
There are a lot of people out there that go down this path. It's painstakingly common. A common thread for boringly common people.

I don't know, therefore X (god/gods/mindstars etc)

Not only does it not lead anywhere, it's intellectually dishonest and reeks of desperation. Yes, what we know now can't explain everything, or even most things! Yet to go from 'our best science can't explain these things' to 'but bronze age superstition or some uneducated guru or some intuitive feeling I have can' is a leap only a fool would take.

Luckily there are literally billions of fools to join you in this. At least you won't be lonely in your mediocre thinking.
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#114810 - 10/18/17 11:33 PM Re: Electric Universe [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dark Light 444 Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 85
Atheism is extremely dull. But then, that’s the logical, rational choice for overly-educated dullards.
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#114811 - 10/19/17 12:10 AM Re: Electric Universe [Re: Dark Light 444]
felidae Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/30/17
Posts: 41
I don't think it's dull to admit you can't comprehend everything. It's comforting to know you can't. Man's reach shouldn't exceed his grasp at our current state - or else what's transcendence for?
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#114812 - 10/19/17 12:22 AM Re: Electric Universe [Re: felidae]
Phoenician Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 54
Loc: CA
 Quote:
but when you aren't thinking about pinpointing it and it's effectively everywhere at once, as a field...How do you prove that?


Light reactive film, two holes, and a spot light.

Is that a serious question?

 Quote:
Now when you reach a level on the event horizon of a black hole and literally all physical laws break down... How do you prove why?
You cant.


Once more, is this is a serious question?

Physics breaks down? Singularities aren't physics?

Just because nothing can be observed past the event horizon does not mean there are no laws that govern it's behavior or get a good picture of it.

The only thing we don't know is what happens after it gets compressed, which is pointless speculation until we observe an unknown source of concentrated energy inverse to that of a black hole.

Yet, predictable things do happen around black holes like repulsive jets (pictured) and hawking radiation.

Part 2:

There is no valid argument for certain things like:

1. Why brains emit waves in the hertz range  (e.g. you're conciousness)

* Which I speculate is a biological version of an FM radio, as their output is the same frequency range.

2. What's past the event horizon
3. What proceeded inflation

2 and 3 are undefined operations, and will remain as fucking superpositions until you collapse the god damn wave, an ability we don't currently have.

You effectively leveled an argument like:

You can't see gravity, so how do you know that's what's holding you to the surface?

Or is it electricity holding me to the surface of this oblate spheroid in hydrostatic equilibrium?


Edited by Phoenician (10/19/17 01:05 AM)
Edit Reason: done editing.
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