Page 2 of 3 <123>
Topic Options
#114999 - 10/27/17 10:56 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
Since you're not willing to hear him out, your reply here doesn't really measure up.

He explains the *how* in history. You'd have to have a willingness to hear his explanation to the question.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#115001 - 10/27/17 12:14 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
I also wanted to add, for emphasis, that Spencer came from the Left. He coined 'Alt-Right' because his ideological views are not aligned with traditional Conservatism. In other words, he's a Leftie under White Cover.

This is why the Alt-Right as the new 'Punk' movement will fall flatly on its ass. So when ANTIFA, SJW's and Liberal college kids get outraged, it's really funneh. In ways they will never fully realize until they wake up.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#115003 - 10/27/17 05:11 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2089
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Since you're not willing to hear him out, your reply here doesn't really measure up.

He explains the *how* in history. You'd have to have a willingness to hear his explanation to the question.


I sometimes wonder whether you read my replies at all. As I wrote in my previous reply, I did finally watch this video. I think I addressed the points I disagree with.

He doesn't explain anything. His remarks about Israel and Poland are way off. I've already explained why. The thing is he advocates that which he appears to be against - multiculturalism; peoples of different cultures coexisting together, the only thing connecting them being the white race. That would bring similar problems to what we are dealing with now. The Jews are a completely different cup of tea. It's s tightly knit society of one culture. One culture vs many different cultures.

Neither does he have a clue about history. One has to be a total moron to present a post-war order as an example of peaceful ethnic cleansing. I mean the war itself was a hecatomb, not to mention any subsequent fights about the borders.

What the guy is talking about is culling in its purest form. No wonder it triggers people on the basic primal level. Something about cornering an animal. Once the primal fears are awaken, any explanations and justifications that might follow will fail miserably.


Edited by Czereda (10/27/17 05:15 PM)
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#115016 - 10/30/17 10:41 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda


I sometimes wonder whether you read my replies at all. As I wrote in my previous reply, I did finally watch this video. I think I addressed the points I disagree with.

He doesn't explain anything. His remarks about Israel and Poland are way off. I've already explained why.
And I've explained why there is disagreement with your disagreement.


 Quote:
The thing is he advocates that which he appears to be against - multiculturalism; peoples of different cultures coexisting together, the only thing connecting them being the white race. That would bring similar problems to what we are dealing with now. The Jews are a completely different cup of tea. It's s tightly knit society of one culture. One culture vs many different cultures.


He was speaking specifically of the Ethnostate of Israel. It's clearly outlined on the official website. So I don't know what you're going on about here. It's a place for Jews, when they are not in Israel, they are just considered away but Israel will always be the home for Jews.

Dealings with the Palestinians and pushing borders beyond limits is also mentioned. There's a reason why the Jews are constantly at odds with them, it's a historical dilemma. Islam is then used as a vehicle for fighting over bad blood, and historical events that shape the current actions by the Israelis against the Palestinians. Not much differently than Ethnic Minorities in the U.S. pushing back for Sins of the Father.


 Quote:

Neither does he have a clue about history. One has to be a total moron to present a post-war order as an example of peaceful ethnic cleansing.
The reorganizing of geographical lines is a peaceful establishment of the Ethnostate, was the point.


 Quote:

I mean the war itself was a hecatomb, not to mention any subsequent fights about the borders.
Well no shit. Otherwise the Poles wouldn't have a country called Poland.

 Quote:

What the guy is talking about is culling in its purest form. No wonder it triggers people on the basic primal level. Something about cornering an animal. Once the primal fears are awaken, any explanations and justifications that might follow will fail miserably.


No he's not. He's too Left for that. He's more so talking about kicking sacred cows to address the problems in the U.S. that are growing, not rescinded due to a brown man in the office. People in the U.S. want their own stuff, to preserve their own subcultures, but it's only taboo if White people do it. He's on the political platform, and you're somewhere else in your own head.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#115019 - 10/30/17 12:08 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
Somewhere in her own head huh, and your not? What are you Sin, his groupie? The guy has nothing realistic to offer, his claims are based on fantasy in disregard to reality, as is most of the so called 'political realm,' headspace, empty statements. You gonna go vote for him or something? That'd be funny.

Edited by Creatura Noptii (10/30/17 12:14 PM)
_________________________
https://youtu.be/8nW-IPrzM1g

Top
#115020 - 10/30/17 12:30 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
No, I just don't find the ideas therein offensive and dismiss them with hyperbole. I am not required to agree in order to argue it. Thought you were onto that character trait?

Look at you all butthurt and stuff.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#115021 - 10/30/17 01:11 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
Hahah! I knew you'd say something like that. My butthurt, over what? Hahahahah!

What are you even arguing again? That his ideas are different? The fuck they are. Take away the label, the fantastic ideas, and what have you here?

More noise.
_________________________
https://youtu.be/8nW-IPrzM1g

Top
#115024 - 10/30/17 04:44 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
Maybe it's Hyperbole or maybe it's Mayballine. I mean come on, you posted those empty bald assertions. I was simply pointing out that there are ideas out there, people of your ilk aren't even willing to consider in a critical way.

You're of the opinion that he has nothing realistic to offer. You don't think it's a harsh reality to kick cows and challenge the status quo? Especially in a college arena where the Liberal speaks at the podium to students paying for an education? In spite of blow back, he injects his presence regardless?

Granted, he has a Lefty background but he was redpilled and I doubt he's going to go back. He's just going to reject more and more of his prior programming.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#115026 - 10/30/17 06:08 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2089
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
He was speaking specifically of the Ethnostate of Israel. It's clearly outlined on the official website. So I don't know what you're going on about here. It's a place for Jews, when they are not in Israel, they are just considered away but Israel will always be the home for Jews.


I don't know how to explain that to you even more clearly. I thought it was damn obvious. What connects the Jews is culture, not race. The Semitic race includes also Arabs. When Spencer advocates the creation of an ethnostate for all Europeans or for all the peoples of the white race and compares it to Israel, he's missing the boat by a mile.

 Quote:
There's a reason why the Jews are constantly at odds with them, it's a historical dilemma. Islam is then used as a vehicle for fighting over bad blood, and historical events that shape the current actions by the Israelis against the Palestinians. Not much differently than Ethnic Minorities in the U.S. pushing back for Sins of the Father.


The Jews and Palestinians belong to the same race. So there is no comparison to the ethnic conflicts in the US. The case of Israel doesn't support but undermines Spencer's theory of the ethnostate.

 Quote:
The reorganizing of geographical lines is a peaceful establishment of the Ethnostate, was the point.


Once again, the conflict between the Jews and Palestinians shows that the common race is not enough to connect people of different cultures and make them live together peacefully.

 Quote:
He's more so talking about kicking sacred cows to address the problems in the U.S. that are growing, not rescinded due to a brown man in the office.


So the US is in crisis because for some time it had a Nigger as a president?

 Quote:
You don't think it's a harsh reality to kick cows and challenge the status quo?


Harsh reality? He's just a dreamer, offering new bullshit in place of the old bullshit. Of course, you can use the bullshit ideas in order to stir up shit but the guy doesn't seem all too willing to cross the line.


Edited by Czereda (10/30/17 06:11 PM)
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#115031 - 10/30/17 10:13 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 145
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I don't know how to explain that to you even more clearly. I thought it was damn obvious. What connects the Jews is culture, not race. The Semitic race includes also Arabs. When Spencer advocates the creation of an ethnostate for all Europeans or for all the peoples of the white race and compares it to Israel, he's missing the boat by a mile.


During the 1990s my late husband and I lived in a rather remote rural area (the county had less than 20,000 residents, smaller than most towns in the USA) that was at the time 99.999999 percent white.

The local culture was amazingly xenophobic. It's not that people were racist, not wanting any contact with non-whites. No, their prejudice was against other white people. People who lived, or just worked, in towns and cities. In order to be accepted, your grandparents had to have been born in the area. Otherwise, you were an outsider. Local women who married a guy from outside the area adopted family hyphenated last names so their children wouldn't be discriminated against in school, and their husband could get waited on at the local hardware store.

Not everyone who lived there was like this. I actually made some good friends, and did volunteer work as an adult literacy teacher (although I mostly taught math). I asked some of my adult students where their ancestors were originally from in Europe, and they insisted that their people had "always been American" with no connection to Europe! The first time I heard this, I mistakenly thought they were claiming Native American ancestry.

So their understanding of what it means to be "white" isn't about skin color, ancestry, or genetics. It's only about belonging to the local cultural group.

I think Spencer is saying something significant when he offers the example of Israel created as an ethnostate. Underlying the xenophobia of my former neighbors is their particular flavor of Christianity, which is rooted far more in the Old Testament than in the New. For them, Jesus was never Jewish. And actual Jews (religious and/or cultural) are some kind of usurpers, not the real "chosen people" (who are, according to some, various "plain" sects, like the Amish). If the false Jews got an ethnostate created for them, then the real, white, Protestant fundamentalist, American, chosen people are intended by their god to have their own ethnostate. Not for white people who live and work in cities, or claim European ancestry. Only for "God's chosen".

So I don't believe that Spencer is talking about race in the sense that includes all white people of European descent. His target audience cares more about culture.
_________________________
Only Man cares for Man; the Universe doesn't give a shit. -- Marcelo Ramos Motta

Top
#115034 - 10/31/17 12:27 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Kori Houghton]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2089
Loc: Poland
https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/a-frank-conversation-with-a-white-nationalist/

In this interview (this is a transcript) he specifically describes an ethno state as a home for all peoples of European descent, including the Slavs, Germans, Latins etc. He's talking about the same in the video SIN posted so I wonder where you took your interpretation from.
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#115037 - 10/31/17 03:00 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 145
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/a-frank-conversation-with-a-white-nationalist/

In this interview (this is a transcript) he specifically describes an ethno state as a home for all peoples of European descent, including the Slavs, Germans, Latins etc. He's talking about the same in the video SIN posted so I wonder where you took your interpretation from.


Actually he lays it out clearly in the interview.

 Originally Posted By: Richard Spencer from Reveal interview transcript
Richard Spencer: Well, that's certainly true to a certain extent. But I would say that white Americans, European-Americans, in particular Anglo-Saxon Americans, Anglo-Saxon Protestants were this essential historic people. That they defined it in a way that no other people did. So, of course African-Americans have influenced American culture and American identity. Of course Asians have and so on. But it really was Anglo-Saxons who truly defined it. Who made America what it is. Who were indispensable. There are other people, you know, other races and all sorts of other different countries. But there has to be that founding people, that indispensable people that really makes the country what it is.


Not all Germans are included here, and Slavs and Latins are excluded.

Yes, later he adds

 Originally Posted By: Richard Spencer from Reveal interview transcript
What the ethnostate is, is an ideal. It's a thing, it's a way of thinking about we want a new type of society that would actually be a homeland for all white people. All European people. So that would include Slavs, that would include Germans, that would include Latins, it who would include people of all ethnicities that we would always have a safe space. We would always have a homeland for us. Very similar to, very similar to how Jews conceive of Israel.


He says it's "an ideal" but doesn't touch the reality of culture in WASPy Fly Over America. Which is: the WASPS don't want to live with the Italians and the Poles and the Swedes and the Czechs and the Portuguese etc. even though they are ethnically European and white. And Spencer's "ideal" wouldn't be attractive to non-WASPS. As an example of this separation in action, consider how the conservative NATIONAL REVIEW editorializes against Trumpist nationalism. Just as not all Jews worldwide dream of living in Israel, most non-WASP whites wouldn't -- and don't! -- live in areas where the WASP culture dominates.

 Originally Posted By: Richard Spencer from Reveal interview transcript
If you ask your average white person in America, "Who are you?" they are going to probably never get around to talking about their European identity or their heritage. They're afraid of it. They know it. Everyone's kind of racially unconscious. They know it in their bones but they're not conscious. They don't want to really talk about it and explore it and think about how that inflects their life. So that's what I want to bring. I respect your identity. I respect the fact that you think about it seriously, that you take it seriously. I want white people to take it seriously. In terms of what I was talking about of like we're going to do this together. I think that I want to see an identitarian future. I want to see people, different peoples, different civilizations having a sense of themselves and finding out ways to live together.


I hadn't read this interview before it was linked in your post, but above he describes the same phenomenon I mentioned earlier, about white Americans claiming their people were never from Europe. I doubt that Spencer has actually lived for any length of time as neighbors with people who believe they've "always been American".

You have to live with it to really understand it, and why segregation among white cultural groups exists here. In my experience, it's not about the language your European ancestors spoke, or what European wars were fought. The significant cultural factor is religious.
_________________________
Only Man cares for Man; the Universe doesn't give a shit. -- Marcelo Ramos Motta

Top
#115045 - 10/31/17 11:32 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
* Guy taking Devil's Advocate stance in the heat of what's most commonly demonized. Wants to make his own 'group' with a religious/social/retard fantasy. Attention whoring at best. Nothing different between him and the others.

Even if his party were locked and loaded, still nothing new. Human nature at its most unrefined. People who can't learn themselves are prone to war. Tribalism, time and again.

I apprehended this before I made my first reply. It is your replies here that turn up empty and cold, more of the predictable same.

Consider your argument spiked.
_________________________
https://youtu.be/8nW-IPrzM1g

Top
#115048 - 10/31/17 11:56 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7187
Loc: Virginia
I'm not that concerned with your opinion of my spikes.

Meanwhile Richard Spencer in Germany combats similar counter arguments.

Sharing a common culture and seeking to preserve it, isn't a poorly hatched plan.

This is why Westernized Muslims are rarely a problem. It's typically unvetted newly arrived ones with a bone to pick with the U.S. for its military operations abroad.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#115051 - 10/31/17 01:00 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
In itself its just a thing. How people go about that plan is what makes or breaks. None of his or your statments about it have made a difference.

None.
_________________________
https://youtu.be/8nW-IPrzM1g

Top
Page 2 of 3 <123>


Moderator:  Woland, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, TV is God, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.045 seconds of which 0.006 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.