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#114837 - 10/20/17 10:43 AM #ALTRIGHT/Politics
SIN3 Offline
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When Spencer is given an opportunity to speak at the University of Florida.

This is the same university that Allowed Atheist Monument to uphold the Constitution & Free Speech expression.

I've been following the issue since Spencer hit the scene. The vocal majority just want him to go away. His presence always sparks protests.

Is the status quo winning? Thoughts?
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#114843 - 10/20/17 01:51 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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He's only part right about race being an ultimate point of identity. He plays the same 'if' card as any other political candidate, making empty promises. I'll play his card though, consider this: What if black people conqured technology first? I don't think the world would be much different, considering human nature, but we'd see more of the same. Whites would have been enslaved by blacks. It isn't all race and 'genetic' dominance. Such is the way of any other dogmatic/psudo-scientific unfoundational shit.

All races have been observed with the capacity to create every kind of technology, so it only stands that white people have developed technology first, and I think that has more to do with social and developmental circumstance than genetic dominance or disadvantage.

Let's be clear. No matter the race, only two things make or break a society: warfare and technology. The rest, tribal justification.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (10/20/17 02:03 PM)
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#114861 - 10/21/17 07:29 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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I managed to get through only half of the video. The guy is boring as fuck. Also I didn't hear the questions asked of him. I watched the other one though about the protests. I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. I can't relate to it. Here, the nationalists are occasionally invited to both public and commercial TV, even by the journalists who are associated with the Left. But again, central European countries are not the US. Our society has always been rather conservative and there aren't too many immigrants of other races and cultures here.

I wonder what the "peaceful ethnic cleansing" is supposed to mean. Looks like an oxymoron.

All in all, in my opinion, it's an empty rhetoric full of utopian ideas.
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#114901 - 10/23/17 12:12 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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I suppose the fuss is about not letting Spencer speak and be boring. All this talk of "weaponized speech" in the media, and look at the players throwing darts. By peaceful, I'm guessing it's not aggressively rounding people up and exterminating them. It would be more akin to refusing to breed, and allow nature to take its due course as one group over-populates another. The minority then becomes 'endangered' to the point of extinction. All about melanin and slanty eyes or some such shit.
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#114904 - 10/23/17 02:22 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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If you apply forced sterilization, that's far from being peaceful. That would lead to riots, which would have to be pacified, all inevitably ending in bloodshed. Peaceful ethnic cleansing is equally oxymoronic as the burning hell of a Paradise. I read that he means educating the racial minorities about the beauty of their own cultures and awakening in them the nostalgic desire to return to their homelands. The guy is either a moron himself or he treats his audience as morons. If he burned down the Capitol like Hitler Reichstag, I would have some respect for him. For now on he's just a clown demanding to have his eccentric and unrealistic views protected under the First Amendment. Expecting the status quo to shield you while you are pretending to fight it... that's the BULLSHIT.
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#114905 - 10/23/17 03:35 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Here's Spencer's perspective:

 Quote:
I think that some people who are…in the alt-right want to believe that the anti-abortion crusade is just inherently traditionalist, that it is about making women take responsibility for their children, that it’s going to make women become mothers whether they like it or not…I am a bit sceptical of this view that abortion would have inherently traditionalist consequences. I think when we think about abortion we often think about these careerist women who otherwise would be part of families but are instead having abortion out of pure selfishness and greed. The fact is that it isn’t like that. Those highly intelligent career women will have abortions on occasion, but to be honest they’re using contraception and they’re avoiding pregnancy, is what they’re doing…The people who are having abortions are generally very often black or Hispanic or [people] from very poor circumstances, to be honest.


As one of those career minded women that used contraception instead of being irresponsible with my own body. I tend to agree with him. When I did have an "Oops!" moment at 20, I figured it was the ideal time to have a child so I did. I also took into account what my resources were, and how old I'd be by the time he'd graduate High School for future planning of my own. Never once during that time did I need 'welfare'. Even as a single parent.

Forced Sterilization is always a fall-back for people when they get frustrated with the en masse excuses people give for having unplanned children. Especially when they lean on the tax payer to fund their children's upbringing. Then to add insult to injury, they have even more kids they can't afford. Or raise for that matter. We also have to factor in the increasing number of Child Protective Services cases, which also fall back on the tax payer to fund.

As a Foster Kid, I knew all too well the burden I was on the Commonwealth and sought to be off that scale. So I emancipated, since there didn't seem to be anyone capable of raising me, I was doing it anyway and a better job at it.

As for whether it would cause a 'riot' meh, it's been done in the past without incident. Several groups of people were forced sterilized, ignorant of what doctors were explaining or purposely tricked into it because their breeding was a burden to the tax payer.
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#114911 - 10/23/17 05:28 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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You know very well that this is not what I was talking about. All those cases of eugenics or even willful abortion, did they put an end to the ethnic diversity? No. It's one thing to try to curb illegal immigration and another to entertain a utopian dream about creating an American ethno-state. The US is not like Israel, Hungary or Poland and it will never be an ethnically monolithic country. Unless one is going to pull the plug and opt for genocide. They don't have the balls to do that, otherwise they wouldn't prattle about "the right to free speech."

The issue I have with those people is not that their views are offensive but that they are totally unrealistic. There are too many racial minorities and immigrants living in your country to get rid of them in a simple and peaceful manner. You can't just pack them all onto ships and send them back home.


Edited by Czereda (10/23/17 05:39 PM)
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#114925 - 10/24/17 12:14 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Is it? Did you even listen to him? He specifically used Poland as an example of the legitimate Ethno-state. He also points to reasons why Poland refuses to take Asylum seekers. I think because of the optics and media portrayals (propaganda is strong) people can't see past what has been said about him and his ideas, vs what he's actually said and puts forth as ideas.

So excuse me if I don't agree with your mentality on this issue. I don't even agree with the Alt-Right as the new punk movement because it's full of shitty ideas that have nothing to do with race. Richard came from the Liberal Left, if that's any indication of what I'm pointing to.

As for his rant on the endeavors of the government. I think a lot of his outrage is misplaced. Especially about meaningless wars.

This guy isn't intimidating and I wouldn't consider him a prolific intellectual. He comes off more like a guy that's really dissatisfied with his nose-dive into politics.
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#114933 - 10/24/17 04:33 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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I wrote in one of my previous replies that I didn't watch the whole video but I read a little about him. The dude is just boring, he can't communicate effectively, he has no charisma. I know this is just my personal and subjective opinion but this is how I felt and that's why I didn't get through the whole of his performance.

I read he mentioned Israel as an example of a perfect, or at least desirable, ethno state. Is the permanent and bloody conflict with Palestinians an example of a peaceful ethnic cleansing?

I agree with you that he isn't intimidating at all. Perhaps, he doesn't want to scare his audience by painting the realistic measures required to put his visions into effect.
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#114936 - 10/24/17 05:05 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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or perhaps you assume he wants violent Ethnic Cleansing because that's what the media writes about him. He uses Israel as a historical example. The struggle for more territory, and pushing the Palestinians back into the desert as a separate matter.
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#114937 - 10/24/17 05:23 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
or perhaps you assume he wants violent Ethnic Cleansing because that's what the media writes about him. He uses Israel as a historical example. The struggle for more territory, and pushing the Palestinians back into the desert as a separate matter.



And this is what it is all about. I mean in reality. How did you get the land from the natives? Can ethnic cleansing be nonviolent? Really?


Edited by Czereda (10/24/17 05:25 PM)
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#114966 - 10/25/17 04:09 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Natives is a misnomer. That's the rhetoric used to support the idea that an act of cruelty was committed against a people. They immigrated to North America too. Weren't so peaceful and victimized as propagated and all civilization is had through conquest.

Your replies just demonstrate Spencer's point, not your own.
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#114967 - 10/25/17 05:00 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Quote:
all civilization is had through conquest...


True and, as history shows, usually a violent and bloody one.

So perhaps CN was right. It's not so much about race as human nature.
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#114969 - 10/26/17 09:55 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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When Spencer is asked by one of the students *how* peaceful ethnic cleansing can be performed; he first has to address the language.

1. Cleansing
This is the Orwellian principle so often at the heart of discourse. When one controls the language, one controls the people.

2. How an Ethno-State is established.
He then goes on to discuss how there are already Ethno States across the globe. And it's just a reorganizing of territory and borders. It doesn't always involve violence or war.


He uses Poland as an example as it pertains to how the land was established for the Poles. But there are many other examples used and could be pointed to.

Conquest does involve a violent hostile take-over of a region but it's the framing of the nature of man that's being used. As if violence and conflict is alien to it. As if Evil creeps in and makes men do bad things.
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#114985 - 10/26/17 05:57 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Quote:
He then goes on to discuss how there are already Ethno States across the globe. And it's just a reorganizing of territory and borders. It doesn't always involve violence or war.

He uses Poland as an example as it pertains to how the land was established for the Poles.


It wasn't established purely on ethnic principle. A considerable part of the land inhabited in majority by Poles was lost to the Czech Republic, other was lost to Germans. There were insurrections and regular battles with Czechs, Germans and Ukrainians over every bit of land. It was a bloody and violent shit. That was from 1918 to 1922. After the Second World War, it wasn't much better but I won't bore you with the details from the history of my country. Suffice to say, it didn't look peaceful.

There were a lot of Jews living in Poland. Those who weren't exterminated by the Nazis or didn't flee during the war, were forcibly expelled from Poland in the 60s, not by the Nazis this time, but by communists. With the change of a leader, there came purges in the communist party, to which plenty of Jews belonged, followed by purges in universities, army, public administration etc. People weren't being murdered but they were forced to emigrate or they left by themselves because they couldn't cope with social ostracism. I'm not sure what is worse; being shot in the head or being shunned like a leaper by your neighbors and former friends.

It's funny how he talks about one ethno-state for various nations of the same white race and compares it to Israel. The Jews, even if they live all over the world, have the same culture. That can't be said about Poles, Italians, the French, English, Russians etc all taken together. Those are peoples of different cultures. Identity is rooted in culture, that has little to do with the race.

I finally found some free time to watch the whole video and didn't change my mind about the guy. He really has no clue what he's talking about. But everyone can dream. Fuck reality.

The reason why people are protesting might be that they see some sinister shit under the surface of sweet sounding words, like peace, better world, brighter future. Could be they think he's a liar but he seems to believe his own bullshit, which is even worse.
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#114999 - 10/27/17 10:56 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Since you're not willing to hear him out, your reply here doesn't really measure up.

He explains the *how* in history. You'd have to have a willingness to hear his explanation to the question.
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#115001 - 10/27/17 12:14 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
SIN3 Offline
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I also wanted to add, for emphasis, that Spencer came from the Left. He coined 'Alt-Right' because his ideological views are not aligned with traditional Conservatism. In other words, he's a Leftie under White Cover.

This is why the Alt-Right as the new 'Punk' movement will fall flatly on its ass. So when ANTIFA, SJW's and Liberal college kids get outraged, it's really funneh. In ways they will never fully realize until they wake up.
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#115003 - 10/27/17 05:11 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Since you're not willing to hear him out, your reply here doesn't really measure up.

He explains the *how* in history. You'd have to have a willingness to hear his explanation to the question.


I sometimes wonder whether you read my replies at all. As I wrote in my previous reply, I did finally watch this video. I think I addressed the points I disagree with.

He doesn't explain anything. His remarks about Israel and Poland are way off. I've already explained why. The thing is he advocates that which he appears to be against - multiculturalism; peoples of different cultures coexisting together, the only thing connecting them being the white race. That would bring similar problems to what we are dealing with now. The Jews are a completely different cup of tea. It's s tightly knit society of one culture. One culture vs many different cultures.

Neither does he have a clue about history. One has to be a total moron to present a post-war order as an example of peaceful ethnic cleansing. I mean the war itself was a hecatomb, not to mention any subsequent fights about the borders.

What the guy is talking about is culling in its purest form. No wonder it triggers people on the basic primal level. Something about cornering an animal. Once the primal fears are awaken, any explanations and justifications that might follow will fail miserably.


Edited by Czereda (10/27/17 05:15 PM)
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#115016 - 10/30/17 10:41 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda


I sometimes wonder whether you read my replies at all. As I wrote in my previous reply, I did finally watch this video. I think I addressed the points I disagree with.

He doesn't explain anything. His remarks about Israel and Poland are way off. I've already explained why.
And I've explained why there is disagreement with your disagreement.


 Quote:
The thing is he advocates that which he appears to be against - multiculturalism; peoples of different cultures coexisting together, the only thing connecting them being the white race. That would bring similar problems to what we are dealing with now. The Jews are a completely different cup of tea. It's s tightly knit society of one culture. One culture vs many different cultures.


He was speaking specifically of the Ethnostate of Israel. It's clearly outlined on the official website. So I don't know what you're going on about here. It's a place for Jews, when they are not in Israel, they are just considered away but Israel will always be the home for Jews.

Dealings with the Palestinians and pushing borders beyond limits is also mentioned. There's a reason why the Jews are constantly at odds with them, it's a historical dilemma. Islam is then used as a vehicle for fighting over bad blood, and historical events that shape the current actions by the Israelis against the Palestinians. Not much differently than Ethnic Minorities in the U.S. pushing back for Sins of the Father.


 Quote:

Neither does he have a clue about history. One has to be a total moron to present a post-war order as an example of peaceful ethnic cleansing.
The reorganizing of geographical lines is a peaceful establishment of the Ethnostate, was the point.


 Quote:

I mean the war itself was a hecatomb, not to mention any subsequent fights about the borders.
Well no shit. Otherwise the Poles wouldn't have a country called Poland.

 Quote:

What the guy is talking about is culling in its purest form. No wonder it triggers people on the basic primal level. Something about cornering an animal. Once the primal fears are awaken, any explanations and justifications that might follow will fail miserably.


No he's not. He's too Left for that. He's more so talking about kicking sacred cows to address the problems in the U.S. that are growing, not rescinded due to a brown man in the office. People in the U.S. want their own stuff, to preserve their own subcultures, but it's only taboo if White people do it. He's on the political platform, and you're somewhere else in your own head.
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#115019 - 10/30/17 12:08 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
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Somewhere in her own head huh, and your not? What are you Sin, his groupie? The guy has nothing realistic to offer, his claims are based on fantasy in disregard to reality, as is most of the so called 'political realm,' headspace, empty statements. You gonna go vote for him or something? That'd be funny.

Edited by Creatura Noptii (10/30/17 12:14 PM)
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#115020 - 10/30/17 12:30 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
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No, I just don't find the ideas therein offensive and dismiss them with hyperbole. I am not required to agree in order to argue it. Thought you were onto that character trait?

Look at you all butthurt and stuff.
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#115021 - 10/30/17 01:11 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Hahah! I knew you'd say something like that. My butthurt, over what? Hahahahah!

What are you even arguing again? That his ideas are different? The fuck they are. Take away the label, the fantastic ideas, and what have you here?

More noise.
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#115024 - 10/30/17 04:44 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Maybe it's Hyperbole or maybe it's Mayballine. I mean come on, you posted those empty bald assertions. I was simply pointing out that there are ideas out there, people of your ilk aren't even willing to consider in a critical way.

You're of the opinion that he has nothing realistic to offer. You don't think it's a harsh reality to kick cows and challenge the status quo? Especially in a college arena where the Liberal speaks at the podium to students paying for an education? In spite of blow back, he injects his presence regardless?

Granted, he has a Lefty background but he was redpilled and I doubt he's going to go back. He's just going to reject more and more of his prior programming.
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#115026 - 10/30/17 06:08 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Quote:
He was speaking specifically of the Ethnostate of Israel. It's clearly outlined on the official website. So I don't know what you're going on about here. It's a place for Jews, when they are not in Israel, they are just considered away but Israel will always be the home for Jews.


I don't know how to explain that to you even more clearly. I thought it was damn obvious. What connects the Jews is culture, not race. The Semitic race includes also Arabs. When Spencer advocates the creation of an ethnostate for all Europeans or for all the peoples of the white race and compares it to Israel, he's missing the boat by a mile.

 Quote:
There's a reason why the Jews are constantly at odds with them, it's a historical dilemma. Islam is then used as a vehicle for fighting over bad blood, and historical events that shape the current actions by the Israelis against the Palestinians. Not much differently than Ethnic Minorities in the U.S. pushing back for Sins of the Father.


The Jews and Palestinians belong to the same race. So there is no comparison to the ethnic conflicts in the US. The case of Israel doesn't support but undermines Spencer's theory of the ethnostate.

 Quote:
The reorganizing of geographical lines is a peaceful establishment of the Ethnostate, was the point.


Once again, the conflict between the Jews and Palestinians shows that the common race is not enough to connect people of different cultures and make them live together peacefully.

 Quote:
He's more so talking about kicking sacred cows to address the problems in the U.S. that are growing, not rescinded due to a brown man in the office.


So the US is in crisis because for some time it had a Nigger as a president?

 Quote:
You don't think it's a harsh reality to kick cows and challenge the status quo?


Harsh reality? He's just a dreamer, offering new bullshit in place of the old bullshit. Of course, you can use the bullshit ideas in order to stir up shit but the guy doesn't seem all too willing to cross the line.


Edited by Czereda (10/30/17 06:11 PM)
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#115031 - 10/30/17 10:13 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
Kori Houghton Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I don't know how to explain that to you even more clearly. I thought it was damn obvious. What connects the Jews is culture, not race. The Semitic race includes also Arabs. When Spencer advocates the creation of an ethnostate for all Europeans or for all the peoples of the white race and compares it to Israel, he's missing the boat by a mile.


During the 1990s my late husband and I lived in a rather remote rural area (the county had less than 20,000 residents, smaller than most towns in the USA) that was at the time 99.999999 percent white.

The local culture was amazingly xenophobic. It's not that people were racist, not wanting any contact with non-whites. No, their prejudice was against other white people. People who lived, or just worked, in towns and cities. In order to be accepted, your grandparents had to have been born in the area. Otherwise, you were an outsider. Local women who married a guy from outside the area adopted family hyphenated last names so their children wouldn't be discriminated against in school, and their husband could get waited on at the local hardware store.

Not everyone who lived there was like this. I actually made some good friends, and did volunteer work as an adult literacy teacher (although I mostly taught math). I asked some of my adult students where their ancestors were originally from in Europe, and they insisted that their people had "always been American" with no connection to Europe! The first time I heard this, I mistakenly thought they were claiming Native American ancestry.

So their understanding of what it means to be "white" isn't about skin color, ancestry, or genetics. It's only about belonging to the local cultural group.

I think Spencer is saying something significant when he offers the example of Israel created as an ethnostate. Underlying the xenophobia of my former neighbors is their particular flavor of Christianity, which is rooted far more in the Old Testament than in the New. For them, Jesus was never Jewish. And actual Jews (religious and/or cultural) are some kind of usurpers, not the real "chosen people" (who are, according to some, various "plain" sects, like the Amish). If the false Jews got an ethnostate created for them, then the real, white, Protestant fundamentalist, American, chosen people are intended by their god to have their own ethnostate. Not for white people who live and work in cities, or claim European ancestry. Only for "God's chosen".

So I don't believe that Spencer is talking about race in the sense that includes all white people of European descent. His target audience cares more about culture.
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#115034 - 10/31/17 12:27 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Kori Houghton]
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https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/a-frank-conversation-with-a-white-nationalist/

In this interview (this is a transcript) he specifically describes an ethno state as a home for all peoples of European descent, including the Slavs, Germans, Latins etc. He's talking about the same in the video SIN posted so I wonder where you took your interpretation from.
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#115037 - 10/31/17 03:00 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
Kori Houghton Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/a-frank-conversation-with-a-white-nationalist/

In this interview (this is a transcript) he specifically describes an ethno state as a home for all peoples of European descent, including the Slavs, Germans, Latins etc. He's talking about the same in the video SIN posted so I wonder where you took your interpretation from.


Actually he lays it out clearly in the interview.

 Originally Posted By: Richard Spencer from Reveal interview transcript
Richard Spencer: Well, that's certainly true to a certain extent. But I would say that white Americans, European-Americans, in particular Anglo-Saxon Americans, Anglo-Saxon Protestants were this essential historic people. That they defined it in a way that no other people did. So, of course African-Americans have influenced American culture and American identity. Of course Asians have and so on. But it really was Anglo-Saxons who truly defined it. Who made America what it is. Who were indispensable. There are other people, you know, other races and all sorts of other different countries. But there has to be that founding people, that indispensable people that really makes the country what it is.


Not all Germans are included here, and Slavs and Latins are excluded.

Yes, later he adds

 Originally Posted By: Richard Spencer from Reveal interview transcript
What the ethnostate is, is an ideal. It's a thing, it's a way of thinking about we want a new type of society that would actually be a homeland for all white people. All European people. So that would include Slavs, that would include Germans, that would include Latins, it who would include people of all ethnicities that we would always have a safe space. We would always have a homeland for us. Very similar to, very similar to how Jews conceive of Israel.


He says it's "an ideal" but doesn't touch the reality of culture in WASPy Fly Over America. Which is: the WASPS don't want to live with the Italians and the Poles and the Swedes and the Czechs and the Portuguese etc. even though they are ethnically European and white. And Spencer's "ideal" wouldn't be attractive to non-WASPS. As an example of this separation in action, consider how the conservative NATIONAL REVIEW editorializes against Trumpist nationalism. Just as not all Jews worldwide dream of living in Israel, most non-WASP whites wouldn't -- and don't! -- live in areas where the WASP culture dominates.

 Originally Posted By: Richard Spencer from Reveal interview transcript
If you ask your average white person in America, "Who are you?" they are going to probably never get around to talking about their European identity or their heritage. They're afraid of it. They know it. Everyone's kind of racially unconscious. They know it in their bones but they're not conscious. They don't want to really talk about it and explore it and think about how that inflects their life. So that's what I want to bring. I respect your identity. I respect the fact that you think about it seriously, that you take it seriously. I want white people to take it seriously. In terms of what I was talking about of like we're going to do this together. I think that I want to see an identitarian future. I want to see people, different peoples, different civilizations having a sense of themselves and finding out ways to live together.


I hadn't read this interview before it was linked in your post, but above he describes the same phenomenon I mentioned earlier, about white Americans claiming their people were never from Europe. I doubt that Spencer has actually lived for any length of time as neighbors with people who believe they've "always been American".

You have to live with it to really understand it, and why segregation among white cultural groups exists here. In my experience, it's not about the language your European ancestors spoke, or what European wars were fought. The significant cultural factor is religious.
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#115045 - 10/31/17 11:32 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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* Guy taking Devil's Advocate stance in the heat of what's most commonly demonized. Wants to make his own 'group' with a religious/social/retard fantasy. Attention whoring at best. Nothing different between him and the others.

Even if his party were locked and loaded, still nothing new. Human nature at its most unrefined. People who can't learn themselves are prone to war. Tribalism, time and again.

I apprehended this before I made my first reply. It is your replies here that turn up empty and cold, more of the predictable same.

Consider your argument spiked.
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#115048 - 10/31/17 11:56 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
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I'm not that concerned with your opinion of my spikes.

Meanwhile Richard Spencer in Germany combats similar counter arguments.

Sharing a common culture and seeking to preserve it, isn't a poorly hatched plan.

This is why Westernized Muslims are rarely a problem. It's typically unvetted newly arrived ones with a bone to pick with the U.S. for its military operations abroad.
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#115051 - 10/31/17 01:00 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
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In itself its just a thing. How people go about that plan is what makes or breaks. None of his or your statments about it have made a difference.

None.
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#115056 - 10/31/17 04:45 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
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Is it? I think everyone dismisses that away, until they can't. As for what difference he's making? Man, he's redpilled a whole cult. That hang on his every word, go to protests, use their own resources in the name of #FreeSpeech. You're not paying attention. This guy is playing God.
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#115057 - 10/31/17 07:42 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: SIN3]
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 Quote:
Meanwhile Richard Spencer in Germany combats similar counter arguments.


No he does not. When you are ready to combat the actual counter arguments presented here and not some rosy liberal crap, wake me up.

 Quote:
Sharing a common culture and seeking to preserve it, isn't a poorly hatched plan.


You've pulled out a funny strawman here.
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#115066 - 11/01/17 12:38 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
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Take every one of your petty insults SIN, and say them to a mirror. You have not brought spikes, but your arguments have been spked, it seems to me you have a weakness, that you can't admit so, or find a new rout of discussion.

I said I understand what your trying to do in your approach, but these posts of yours lately have been nuts to say the least. I've taken great consideration on the subject, it just seems you don't want to acknowledge it.

On the subject, let me make it clear. Any controversy over this guy is nothing more than political paranoia, its what the system relies on to keep people running circles in tribal conflict. It keeps people fighting with each other.

I'm sure you've noted a recent Stephen King revival. They've been quite good, and despite Netflix and their shitty streaming options, they've done a great job adapting some of King's tales. I'll go ahead and use a couple of fictional characters here for reference, since a lot of the paranoia comes from just that anyway.

Take for example, The Dead Zone. There is an antagonist called Greg Stilson. Is this what you reference to? Are you afraid like most liberals, that the guy is nut job, ready to bring chaos? Is he perhaps Randall Flagg, ready to worsen an already broken world? I don't think so.

Try the recent sequel to Blade Runner. There is an antagonist known as Wallace. The people who run the world do so because they have control over the resources.
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#115067 - 11/01/17 01:10 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Czereda Offline
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Actually, this is not what she was talking about. She didn't say the guy was a villain ready to bring chaos. What bothers her are Anti-Fa protests and the discrimination of the extreme right views. Personally, I find it laughable when those who claim to oppose the status quo demand the "right to free speech" and seek the First Amendment protection. Do you see the irony here?
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#115068 - 11/01/17 01:47 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Then my point stands. I've given more consideration than she thinks. Her point was that he's building a cult and playing god. I'm saying its not that special.

Hypocrisy is everywhere, people are always trying to draw attention. Without some real weight, most things like this guy and his agenda blow over out of the public eye. If they grow, it has something to do with resource distribution. That's all it is. I say he has nothing realistic to offer because he really has nothing to offer but an opinionated fantasy.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (11/01/17 01:49 PM)
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#115070 - 11/02/17 07:05 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
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He really tries to draw attention to himself as every politician. Now the sheep jumping on the bandwagon are a different cup of tea. It doesn't even matter whether it's a bandwagon of hatred and moral outrage or quasi-religious enthusiasm. Both require some degree of emotional investment. The question remains "In the name of what?" Better world? Brighter future? More evolved humanity? The trick is that no matter what side of the fence you place yourself on, you get mesmerized by the same bullshit. It's kinda tragic.

As I wrote before, here in Poland, Nationalists are regularly invited to TV. Mainly, because the government changed and now it's more conservative. Mostly, these are young people in their twenties entertaining colorful and utopian ideas. I can admit, I agree with some points they present. They make some sense in how they describe the current status quo. What I take issue with is that they don't seem to be aware of the realistic measures required to put their ideas into practice, if they can be put into practice at all. The world has changed. Can you reverse globalization? Eliminate migration? Can we return to tribalized society? These are the questions. For sure, some changes can be implemented, like controlling and curbing immigration but it's hardly an all round revolution.
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#115072 - 11/02/17 10:59 AM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
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The emotional investment is in resource, not the ideology. The beliefs are a symbol, and for those who dare to hold their standard, they are often alone, rejected. Political realms are just a convenient distraction for people to think they are making a difference. It plays on hard wired tribal instincts.

Humanity fails to evolve as a whole because the majority have no wisdom to offer. Reactionism over contemplation time and again. The world will continue to change, but one thing that never has is the tribal mind of man, and his failure to see past it.
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#115073 - 11/02/17 12:10 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Creatura Noptii]
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Humans are tribal by nature. The question is to what extent you can overcome your biological programming, if at all. The society is the tribe. Entertaining controversial ideas and daring to express them will inevitably lead to your alienation. Let's not kid ourselves, that causes pain. Contemplation will only strengthen it as you might see that the cause of your suffering is the denied desire to be accepted by others.

You can deal with it by playing a martyrdom card.

They fight me because they are afraid of me. Because I tell them the truth and they don't want to hear it. Disagree with them and they will mock you, hate on you, reject you, crucify you. But I won't surrender to them. Who wants to join me? Aux barricades citoyens. I will be your new leader but only until we build a new better world. Mind, it's for your own good.

And voila, you have a new tribe which will accept you and elevate you. That is if you manage to capitalize on your rejection. So much for swimming against the tide. Most of the time it is confronting yourself. Confronting other people is only the beginning. If it leads to self-examination, it might bear a fruit. Otherwise, it's attention whoring at best.
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#115079 - 11/03/17 10:44 PM Re: #ALTRIGHT/Politics [Re: Czereda]
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SIN: One can in fact take advantage of modern controversy to form a cult. You mentioned this guy has a dissatisfaction with his political stance. It makes sense, because even if one gathers a following, it doesn't always last. It has to have some kind of resourceful benefit to do so.

CZ: See above. Morality and tribal code usually doesn't add up to any more than so much talk. What really gets the blood boiling is control and access to resource. It is in fact human nature to group together and fight, which is the reason most people join. They are raised on it, or they trade hats to 'fight' against what they believe is 'unjust,' normally without making any difference what so ever.

Yes, pain is the consequence in challenging instinct, but the benefit is undeniable once known. To see yourself in this life, to have people and events come and go and remain whole. It comes with experience.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (11/03/17 10:47 PM)
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