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#115348 - 12/12/17 11:21 AM Civic Nationalism is NOT enough
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia




See also: Liberal Nationalism [i.e. non-xenophobic, tolerant, equality, equal rights & freedom]

1. Does the West require defense?

2. How does one define common ancestry? By ethnic background or location?

3. Alien Migration en masse, is it really the culprit for the decline of Western society?

4. What evidence supports a decline of the West?

5. Is the U.S. on the same path as Europe in terms of the affects of mass chain immigration?

6. If there's no real way to seal borders from aliens, given that law makers seem bent on an open border policy; what is the solution?

7. Is it xenophobic to want to keep your environment free of foreign invaders?

8. Is the rhetoric convincing?
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#115350 - 12/12/17 12:01 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
1: Yes. This is why people are fighting.

2. People will define it by whatever terms they value.

3. No. Stupidity and greed, rooted in fear of loss.

4. Depends where you look. Look at people, their health and mental well being. No one is learning any sort of personal refinement, only fear, to put it on a basic level. If people aren't dying of heart disease they are dying of drug poison. Look at the corporate sector, the ones who control the resources. Look at how much they care about people.

5. No. We have too many guns, and there are already many tribes here. If anything, our resources will be shipped over seas to them. They won't need to come here.

6. Law makers are in corporate pockets.

7. Yes. It is. It is also rational to defend your resources. It is what all animals do.

8. The bitch needs to close her mouth and open her brain.
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#115354 - 12/12/17 02:33 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Creatura Noptii]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1425
Loc: Ca
1. Does the West require defense?

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." That applies to all domestic civil defense everywhere.

2. How does one define common ancestry? By ethnic background or location?

White, Yellow and Brown go by country, black go by Africa. There is also a tendency to categorize people aesthetically. Like the common mistake of confusing an Italian for a Jew.

3. Alien Migration en masse, is it really the culprit for the decline of Western society?

America: Micks, Wops, Poles, Spics, and Sandniggers. The last group to emmigrate rule.

4. What evidence supports a decline of the West?

It certainly isnt GDP. Transition periods always come with an Armageddon of values shifting.

5. Is the U.S. on the same path as Europe in terms of the affects of mass chain immigration?

No. There only two borders and one of them is Canada. And save a bunch of flight school dropouts, it seems all American threat is homegrown or can be stopped at Customs.

6. If there's no real way to seal borders from aliens, given that law makers seem bent on an open border policy; what is the solution?

Implant everyone in the world with a trackable heritage ID chip and catalog their movements with GPS. Through automatic computer monitoring have it send an alert when they cross an imaginary line they are not suppose to.

7. Is it xenophobic to want to keep your environment free of foreign invaders?

No. It's natural likeness recognition. This for the same reason i can differentiate white people, but all blacks and asians look the same.
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#115356 - 12/12/17 04:45 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2104
Loc: Poland
I didn't know that such a thing as liberal nationalism exists. People seem to be fond of oxymorons.

1. Does the West require defense?

Every country that is threatened with a foreign invasion, economic crisis, social unrest etc requires defense. What the fuck does the "West" mean? It's an example of totally abstract thinking.

2. How does one define common ancestry? By ethnic background or location?

By blood.

3. Alien Migration en masse, is it really the culprit for the decline of Western society?

I don't see any signs of the decline. Sure, the Western societies (the emphasis on the plural) have their problems but they are in a much better condition than other parts of the world.

4. What evidence supports a decline of the West?

As I wrote, I don't see any decline as compared to the past. Sure, there are some threats. The mass migration is a threat but not as big as Kim Jong-un's nukes.

5. Is the U.S. on the same path as Europe in terms of the affects of mass chain immigration?

I don't know much about the US immigration policy. I know more about the EU. It's difficult for me to say whether you are heading in the same direction. One thing is certain. The reality doesn't look exactly like described by the journalists hungry for sensational news. Many Poles live in Western Europe. They are immigrants too. Sure, the presence of Arabs might suck at times but the situation hardly resembles an approaching Armageddon.

6. If there's no real way to seal borders from aliens, given that law makers seem bent on an open border policy; what is the solution?

Vote for other law makers. I wouldn't underestimate the elections. I don't really want to pontificate about the US but the Hungarian government, for example, was pretty successful in stopping the influx of Muslim immigrants. Here, in my country, when the government changed, it put a stop to the relocation of pseudo-refugees.

7. Is it xenophobic to want to keep your environment free of foreign invaders?

It depends. If someone abhors the uncontrolled swarms of parasites arriving with the sole purpose of draining the local welfare system, then that person's fears and anger are well justified. If someone prattles on about the superiority of the white race and building the state for the white people only as a cure for all the problems of the world, then that is the prime example of wishful thinking.

The mass migration is a problem but many people treat it like a scapegoat for everything that went wrong. It also can't be stopped altogether but it can and should be controlled and limited. We live in a globalized world whether we like it or not. Countries and nations, for sure, are selfish, and talking about unity and common values sounds naive, but the economies are interconnected. We can see it on the example of any economic crisis.

8. Is the rhetoric convincing?

Honestly? I think she should reserve her mouth for blow jobs.

When I heard her blaming the fall of the Roman Empire on multi-culturalism, I wondered whether she'd ever been to school. The rest of her presentation sounds like those creepy stories some moms tell to scare their kids.
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#115357 - 12/13/17 10:44 AM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
What the fuck does the "West" mean? It's an example of totally abstract thinking.


There is plenty of cultural analysis to be found, if you're genuinely interested. I'd say the biggest difference that stands out between East and West, is how independence is regarded.

In the East, independence is abhorrent. You may need to get through at least 2 generations of family members. Then society at large, if you wish to stand alone, go alone.

In the West, independence is desired. This is why age 18 is a reprieve for parents. Legal adulthood means you can be pushed out of the family home without consequence.
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#115359 - 12/13/17 01:35 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
Not exactly. Independence is always given under conditions, which only means conditions may be different, but all situations are substantially the same. That independence in the West is desired could be quite laughable, if only it wasn't that serious. Independence is more desired in the East, if you want my opinion. Independence is desired more where there's oppression. If you can acquire what is substantial for your survival and still have a say, that's the closest thing to independence.
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#115360 - 12/13/17 02:27 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2104
Loc: Poland
I think your reply is a gross generalization. My point, however, was that every country has its own quite selfish interests. We are thinking in terms of nations and states rather than races. It's plainly obvious in the case of the European Union. In spite of all the grandiose declarations about common values, the divisions and conflicts are visible.

Treating the West or the whole white race as some sort of unity is a sign of naivety. It's also a sign that one doesn't really know what nationalism is. Actually, it has shit to do with the race. Which nationalist would be willing to shed his blood for other nations and peoples, just because they happen to be white or because they belong to the West? The focus in on one's own nation/tribe, to which of course only the natives belong. But other white peoples aren't that relevant.
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#115373 - 12/15/17 09:45 AM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: fiendish
Not exactly. Independence is always given under conditions, which only means conditions may be different, but all situations are substantially the same.


Sort of. Given the idea of the Nuclear Family, until it no longer makes sense financially. Whereas in the East, you could literally be stuck with an entire family living with you until they die. There's no real incentive for them to leave, and there are real consequences if you kick them out. And I'm just speaking on the basic primal start here. It can either be prolonged, or severed. I think that's not as trivial as dismissed, nor as generalized as believed.
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#115381 - 12/16/17 03:40 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
Independence could be such a burden, it's rather a choice than generalized consequences. The incentive is suppressed yet not eliminated. As a matter of fact, we are always beguiled about what is the truth.
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#115389 - 12/18/17 10:06 AM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Do you have choices when you're a native Middle Easterner? Sure, but they are limited. You can choose to buck tradition, and many certainly have. Some of them died in that process.
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#115399 - 12/19/17 02:21 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
What you don't understand is that each time there are certain choices. You choose, then there's other choices. I mean, look around you . What do you see? Choices. In other words, each situation needs different actions.
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#115406 - 12/21/17 12:09 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
When choosing from choices already made for you, are they really choices? Don't tell me what I understand.
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#115407 - 12/22/17 11:47 AM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
You mean, someone else decides for you? Well, this is oppression, there's only one choice, rebellion. So you see what I mean is there's always a choice, though not always the choices you'd like to have. In a way that explains general tension for rebellion in oppressed territories. It's almost that simple to find out why some people become prey to bizarre ideas, when they're really at a dead end. It's not wrong to say they don't embrace those ideas, they just do what they're only left to do. The point is, what some would call fundamentalism is for someone else everyday life.
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#115410 - 12/22/17 03:12 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: fiendish]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2104
Loc: Poland
If the rebellion is your only option, you actually don't have a choice.

I can think of another option; accepting the environment you live in as something normal and natural. The oppressive regimes usually cut off their citizens from the outside sources of information. Additionally, you are born into that culture and soaked with it. In order to defy it, you need to change your perspective. You need other points of reference. If you don't have them or simply treat them as the Other, then how can you know that you can live a different life?

There is a reason why you have no democracy in Muslim countries. Is this because the regimes are so strong and people so apathetic? Or is this rather the matter of culture?
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#115411 - 12/22/17 03:49 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Czereda]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
Well, really? Accept an oppressive undemocratic environment as something normal and natural? You know what mostly makes people apathetic, oppression. Really, are you trying to say that oppressed people don't change their perspective because of the Others? On the other hand (as I have said) the only way to change an oppressive regime is rebellion.
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