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#115412 - 12/22/17 05:18 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: fiendish]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2104
Loc: Poland
What I'm saying is that it is unnatural and oppressive mostly from the point of view of the Westerners. The natives have a different view of things.
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#115413 - 12/22/17 06:03 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Czereda]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
Well, I'm not sure I'm a westerner or a native as well. Do you really have a different view of oppression? Yes, there's sure a complexity about how each and every one anticipates oppression, yet in the end it's just oppression. It doesn't really have t do with geographical or demographic terms. What I'm saying is that it's not at all unnatural.
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#115416 - 12/22/17 07:23 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: fiendish]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2104
Loc: Poland
One example could be the failed coup d'etat in Turkey. One could say the people who supported Erdogan acted irrationally or were brainwashed. But was that really the case? Perhaps, they understand freedom differently? Perhaps, the oppression is... outside influences, in their view. Mind, they weren't apathetic but actively supporting the regime. I often think democracy is incompatible with Islam.
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#115417 - 12/22/17 08:31 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Czereda]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
Rather than a coup d'état , it more seemed like a masquerade. Top notch military wouldn't bother for such a nuisance. How often do coups fail due to majority issues? In fact coups are used to overcome such issues. It just doesn't seem right.
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#115433 - 12/24/17 04:29 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The problem is that most nationalists are democratic, democracy is shit. You're putting your hands in a bunch of sheep, decision of one administrations are questioned by the next, then the actions taken eventually undone. You're basically going in circles.

The world would be much better if people just accepted that there is class and people will never be equal.
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#115434 - 12/24/17 04:34 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Czereda]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 142
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Are you implying you're free? Please elaborate? Because both you and I (unfortunately) are slaves living according to the whims of others. A system created by others dictates our actions since a young age. Why do you go to school? So that you may contribute to society. Seems like a modernized slave to me. Sure there are some people who go to pursue education or produce labour for their own sake, but that does not include most people.

I have a job, therefore I am a slave. Maybe someday I'll be rich enough to buy a patch of land somewhere that I can make sustainable so that I do not have to work to survive. Only then will I be physically free from the system.
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#115445 - 12/25/17 04:41 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Ubermensch23]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2104
Loc: Poland
This is why I wrote that you need other points of reference. There is no such a thing as absolute freedom but if you compare democratic countries to authoritarian ones, then you will see there is more freedom here.

Not sure which side of the moon you're living on but down here on Earth, even if you work on your own land, you're still part of the society, part of the system.
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#115446 - 12/26/17 01:33 AM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3343
1) In a way, the West needs to defend itself.
Not so much against other nations but it moreover needs an enema to purge itself from toxic ideas. A refocus on what is important and what isn't. The West has given birth to a generation of pussies.

2) Ethnic background.

3) I dare say that immigration gives rise to a decline in society. Sure, there are people who migrate from one country to another and hold succesful positions. And sure, there are people who get integrated into society and take over jobs others wouldn't. But here's the thing (and it ties in with 1), those people are empoverishing the nation by forcing to set the bar lower. There's enough Polish work-forces here who "do the job"... but not to the same standard a local professional holds. Lest alone having mastered language or knowledge in the field. Communication is tiresome and seldom transparent. More time and resources wasted than one can imagine just because people wanted to "win a few money".

4) Take a look at the news. Economical problems, a focus on trivialities,... that would be indication enough. The fact media is shining a light on the latest FEMEN-action and much less attention on the current situation in NK or even Poland toying the idea of leaving the EU. Those are some bloody important things. Instead you get main articles on how one of the Kardashians got herself filled-up.

5) Can't say for sure but I suspect the U.S. is still a safe haven. They do not have to deal with Middle-eastern immigration to the same extend Europa has.

6) Not supporting the aliens. Make them leave.

7) No, it is natural. (Il)legal aliens will always serve a threat one way or another. An imposition for acceptance of their traditions and customs that may clash with our own at one point or another. That, and the other factor as explained in 3.

8) Hardly.
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#115457 - 12/26/17 11:13 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Dimitri]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Loc: Oregon
Dimitri:

I agree with that to some level, but I think the greater problem is what you address at 1: The West has bred a society of some very weak minded people, with such a thing comes destructive irrationality. I doubt anyone did a good think-through on the European front concerning the refugees. Ego over logic, in that case.

Point being, the problem is more likely a native one. The foreign aspect is just icing on the cake at this point.

The U.S. has foundation, specifically in our right to arms. Conservative conviction only goes as far as limited. Past that you're talking new terrain, progression. You either have a foundation of stone or putty.
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#115464 - 12/27/17 04:30 PM Re: Civic Nationalism is NOT enough [Re: Ubermensch23]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 513
So, some are sheep and some others aren't. It reminds me of the Animal Farm , where the pigs were more equal than the other animals. There is No Class, and if you don't believe me, believe some other people that said this before me.
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