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#115383 - 12/16/17 09:20 PM The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism
entropicmomentum Offline
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Registered: 08/07/12
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https://youtu.be/0_-5cfMOsEQ

I think this guy has a good handle on the issues around multiculturalism. We can see the devastation mass immigration has on European countries.

Small amounts of immigration is fine if they assimilate, but what we see there is no different than laying down arms to let in an invading force.

Also, has anyone noticed that the Jews are gung-ho with multiculturalism here in the West, but holy fuck you better not touch Israel!

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#115387 - 12/18/17 03:18 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
Multiculturalism is self-defeating.

A culture is grown from customs, rites, ideas and habits over a very prolonged time.

This can imply non-compability between various cultures and habits of life. It implies that the nature of multi-culturalism is one of violence and friction.

In order to respect another culture you have to follow their habits and way of living. It implies downgrading the own in order to learn the new. It also implies letting go of aspects which belong to the "you".

In short, the multiculturalist movements are asking you to bow down towards others and lay off some of your own aspects in order to avoid confrontation. It dilutes the spirit and weakens the mind.

Strong human beings have become so by imposing their will and remaining steadfast with a dash conservatism. Multiculturalism is a result for the lack of strong men.
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#115391 - 12/19/17 05:57 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
Much better than the video by a dumbass blondie but still there are a couple of things I would wish to address.

I agree that diversity creates mistrust. I would only add that it's due to our tribal nature that goes back to the prehistoric times. People have an inborn subconscious mistrust of the Other. That doesn't only concern the ethnicity but also such things as beliefs, character, social status, education level, looks etc. To make it simple, the more different someone is from us, the more we tend to distrust him or her.

I wouldn't go as far as claim that diversity makes people lonely. Rather it makes them more divided, more likely to socialize within their separate social circles.

The fact that people spend more time in front of the TV should be blamed on the development of technology and not multiculturalism. The people in the West became also more individualized and this is why they don't feel so much emotional need to spend more time with their families.

Corruption on the political scene has more to do with the political system in a given country. The countries with a young and unstable democracy or totalitarian countries usually have a high level of corruption. It concerns both multicultural and homogeneous societies alike.

I also wholeheartedly agree that the multiculturalism is damaging the welfare system because the immigrants simply drain it. It's especially true about illegal immigrants who are often not qualified enough (or too lazy) to find a job in their new homeland.

Summing up, it's a quite good video with a minimal amount of propaganda and plenty of reasonable arguments.
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#115396 - 12/19/17 10:02 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Dimi
Multiculturalism is a result for the lack of strong men.


True enough and yet, culture is just people expressing themselves. Some expressions are better than others. Many are to the detriment of an entire population of people sharing space.

Example: How to get men to grow beards in Turkey

"For example, if you see a man with long hair from afar you may think he is a woman if he does not have a beard. Because nowadays women and men dress similarly. God forbid! You could be possessed by indecent thoughts," he said, apparently referring to same-sex relationships.


While homosexuality has long been legalized in Turkey and is not officially persecuted, unlike in many other Muslim-majority states, conservative Islamic preachers consider all same-sex relations to be forbidden. The Turkish LGBT community has also been fighting for the introduction of anti-discrimination laws, as well as for the legalization of same-sex marriage."


Meanwhile, women are mostly veiled. You couldn't possibly mistake an Orthodox Muslim woman for a man because she's covered. It's obvious what's being pointed to here and the motivations for it. The 'west' has touched the region in such a way that it shatters their ideological traditions. Thing is, why should they be preserved? [Rhetorical] There's certainly a number of arguments that could be made for when a society no longer forbids open Homosexuality (starting in Classical Era Greece).

There's pitfalls yes, but there's also perks. In fact, we all benefit from them in our native countries. It's really only a problem when a small number of people try to force a larger group to change an expression without benefit.

What benefit is there to growing a beard? In the West, beard fashion is a thing. Maybe it's more of a benefit to shave, to keep your face out in the open to attract a mate, and keep your skin clear in specific climates.

If these Clerics endeavors were to get a foothold across Europe, it goes beyond hipster beard trends I think.
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#115400 - 12/20/17 10:23 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Its not as multicultural as it is business.

@ Dimitri: The 'who' isn't so important as 'what.' Your point goes both ways. I can go into a culture, learn their language and customs, and do well. People are more or less the same the world over. It actually benefits one to learn another language, see new things and get around. Learn the terrain.

Being conservative all the time leads one to a dead end.

I agree though, the actual 'movement' of multiculturalism seems to be a cover phrase, misleading. It asks people to accept each other's differences and live together, but that is hard to do when people have conflicting beliefs.

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#115401 - 12/21/17 01:07 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Posts: 3385
And that's the mistake people make.
They think you can "learn" and assimilate into a culture.

You can't.
Culture is something you are born in.
You simply can't wipe away your own cultural heritage and adapt a new one. Those who tried generally ended up confused and shunned by both.

In West-Europe you can easily see the differences between a Frenchman, Brits and Dutch people. One might cross-check with the other but even after a generation or 2 you'll notice differences.

I even have to look at the US. There's still differences between US-citizens who had German and Irish roots in both culture and attitude. The thing is much deeper than one might expect and willing to admit.
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#115403 - 12/21/17 09:05 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Sabrina27 Offline
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Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 158
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
What benefit is there to growing a beard? In the West, beard fashion is a thing. Maybe it's more of a benefit to shave, to keep your face out in the open to attract a mate, and keep your skin clear in specific climates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbHgJdDJPRw
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#115405 - 12/21/17 12:07 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
Its not as multicultural as it is business.


I disagree. These self-appointed Imams in the middle east would have the rest of the world follow their instruction. Including but not limited to a theocracy with a political goal. People born to that, don't question it. Just as people born to a Free society, take that freedom for granted.

 Quote:
Being conservative all the time leads one to a dead end.


Which leads to some centrist thinking. Some, but only when it's reasonable and rational.

The multi-cultural movement seeks to destabilize critical foundation. Don't get me wrong, I identify that some people want chaos and watch the world burn... Until it's their stuff.
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#115408 - 12/22/17 01:45 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You simply can't wipe away your own cultural heritage and adapt a new one.

One need not completely assimilate into a culture to survive it, or be accepted. If you know the language and customs, you have done most of the work. I sure as fuck can get along just fine in any culture I choose. The greatest barrier is often language and personal convictions. If you can get over those barriers, you can get along with most people. Like I said, people are generally the same the world over with a few exceptions. If you have half a brain you can adapt.

As far as defending one's culture in a conservative sense, that still has to do with your own personal conviction. There are certain aspects of any culture I find worthy and un worthy of respect.


You are going to find that people are more or less the same the world over, with a few exceptions here and there.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Those who tried generally ended up confused and shunned by both.


Who are "Those" of whom you speak? It sounds like you are just making this up. In my own experience, I've been accepted and often invited into what one might consider strict cultural activities, based on others seeing me worthy of their respect. These cultural going ons are just as human as any other.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Frenchman, Brits and Dutch people-


* They are European, and their similarities often outweigh their differences. They all have an excessive smug attitude of being 'better' than other people, and are also generally accepting and willing to learn about other cultures to. Its that way with a lot of people everywhere.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
even after a generation or 2 you'll notice differences.


Generational differences have to do more with a connection between technology and life-style. More or less, people adopt the same intelligence and stupidity of the previous generations, making the same mistakes and achievements as before.

 Originally Posted By: SIN
These self-appointed Imams in the middle east would have the rest of the world follow their instruction. Including but not limited to a theocracy with a political goal.


Yeah, but they don't rule the world do they? It doesn't matter what culture takes over, the leaders are always going to have demands aren't they? And even so, how would making everyone conform be multicultural?

Its business, getting the whole world to adopt to corporate rule.

 Originally Posted By: SIN
The multi-cultural movement seeks to destabilize critical foundation.


What war has ever destabilized critical foundations, especially concerning human nature? Its the same foundation time and again, no matter how many wars we fight: Total domination through control of resources, no matter what culture. Some are just more desirable because they have less restriction and punishment compared to others.

Multiculturalism means accepting all cultures because we all function under corporate rule the world over. Corporate domination cares little to nothing of your actual culture, with the exception of an advantage in advertisement. But it doesn't matter. No matter where you go, sex sells. Even/especially in censored culture.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (12/22/17 01:53 PM)
Edit Reason: *

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#115409 - 12/22/17 02:42 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
All I can say is this:

Travel more. Do not stay in the big tourist areas in big cities.
You'll get my drift. I'm 100 percent sure your opinion will be revised.

I can use one word to pop the balloon of multi-culturalism and point out the flaws in your response.

Ready? Here it is.

Ghetto.


Edited by Dimitri (12/22/17 02:43 PM)
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#115414 - 12/22/17 06:25 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dimitri]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Do not stay in the big tourist areas in big cities.


The last thing I do is go to the tourist spots. I've always argued that the real culture is outside of the cities. Condensed areas are more or less the same anywhere you go. Some are only cleaner than others, but its all the same commotion.

I personally like the countryside areas best. You meet a lot of simple people, often times farmers and the like. Those are your real conservatives who know how to hold their ground, since they learn to survive off the land, and probably hold more of the old cultural values that matter.

We have ghettos everywhere here in the U.S. You think I've never been in one? I'll be honest, I don't stay long. Part of my self preservation rationality. I don't know what you assume of me, but it seems your a bit off. For example:

Have you ever taken the time to shoot the shit with poor people in your own, or other countries? I've done it. I've done things off the beaten path many wouldn't try. *One thing I do that many won't dare, is travel alone.

People tend to have a certain paranoia being in another land. Its not irrational, but things are generally not always that scary, depending where you go, and especially if you take the time to map the terrain.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (12/22/17 06:39 PM)
Edit Reason: *

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#115447 - 12/26/17 01:39 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
I frequently partake in road-trips through countries.
Get to know the locals by either camping (on hiking trips) or working through things like Airbnb.

As for your stay in "Ghetto's".
Obviously you missed a mark. Think again behind the reason of your short stay. You'll see the point more clear.
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#115448 - 12/26/17 09:39 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Make? No, people adopt it willingly. Just have a look see at the UK right now. The sentiment that itís Ďjustí shared culture is popular. Designer Hibjabs are normalized, until women start wearing them as a fashion. Then, these Imams and their male followers take action against the populist. They push the government to make so many compromises, these countries lose their own native culture.

It spreads like a virus. This is why so many countries welcome the asylum seeker. They call it xenophobic to refuse them. Then have to deal with the aftermath, which is both social and economic. The world shifts to accommodate. It doesnít require conquest in the traditional sense. Most people donít even realize their regions have been recultured.

Gang rape and acts of terrorism are as typical as a shooting.

Rinse and repeat.
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#115452 - 12/26/17 05:17 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
This is one side of the coin. Another is lurking deep down in the dark recesses of the mind the paranoid fear of the Other. The latter is primal, the former is the result of social conditioning. Take for example a prohibition of burkini on French beaches or the French folks panicking at the sound of fireworks thinking it was yet another terrorist attack. Not to mention occasional burning down of refugee asylums in Germany.

Edited by Czereda (12/26/17 05:18 PM)
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#115458 - 12/26/17 11:46 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
To add: People don't just willingly accept. Why do you think our own country is in such turmoil right now? Make, yes. Its all make. Wordplay doesn't change the essence. Your still talking about the enforcement of new cultural demands, the pushing and shoving of will into manifested results on a cultural invasive level. Willing acceptance, part of whole. These things require as you say, reform institutionalized. Shit don't happen over night, which yes, keeps the uncomfortable just cosy enough, out of sight out of mind, (seeing in the dark helps) but these going-ons are sown and ripe with plan and plot. Business as usual.
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