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#115383 - 12/16/17 09:20 PM The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism
entropicmomentum Offline
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https://youtu.be/0_-5cfMOsEQ

I think this guy has a good handle on the issues around multiculturalism. We can see the devastation mass immigration has on European countries.

Small amounts of immigration is fine if they assimilate, but what we see there is no different than laying down arms to let in an invading force.

Also, has anyone noticed that the Jews are gung-ho with multiculturalism here in the West, but holy fuck you better not touch Israel!

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#115387 - 12/18/17 03:18 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
Dimitri Offline
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Multiculturalism is self-defeating.

A culture is grown from customs, rites, ideas and habits over a very prolonged time.

This can imply non-compability between various cultures and habits of life. It implies that the nature of multi-culturalism is one of violence and friction.

In order to respect another culture you have to follow their habits and way of living. It implies downgrading the own in order to learn the new. It also implies letting go of aspects which belong to the "you".

In short, the multiculturalist movements are asking you to bow down towards others and lay off some of your own aspects in order to avoid confrontation. It dilutes the spirit and weakens the mind.

Strong human beings have become so by imposing their will and remaining steadfast with a dash conservatism. Multiculturalism is a result for the lack of strong men.
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#115391 - 12/19/17 05:57 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
Czereda Offline
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Much better than the video by a dumbass blondie but still there are a couple of things I would wish to address.

I agree that diversity creates mistrust. I would only add that it's due to our tribal nature that goes back to the prehistoric times. People have an inborn subconscious mistrust of the Other. That doesn't only concern the ethnicity but also such things as beliefs, character, social status, education level, looks etc. To make it simple, the more different someone is from us, the more we tend to distrust him or her.

I wouldn't go as far as claim that diversity makes people lonely. Rather it makes them more divided, more likely to socialize within their separate social circles.

The fact that people spend more time in front of the TV should be blamed on the development of technology and not multiculturalism. The people in the West became also more individualized and this is why they don't feel so much emotional need to spend more time with their families.

Corruption on the political scene has more to do with the political system in a given country. The countries with a young and unstable democracy or totalitarian countries usually have a high level of corruption. It concerns both multicultural and homogeneous societies alike.

I also wholeheartedly agree that the multiculturalism is damaging the welfare system because the immigrants simply drain it. It's especially true about illegal immigrants who are often not qualified enough (or too lazy) to find a job in their new homeland.

Summing up, it's a quite good video with a minimal amount of propaganda and plenty of reasonable arguments.
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#115396 - 12/19/17 10:02 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dimi
Multiculturalism is a result for the lack of strong men.


True enough and yet, culture is just people expressing themselves. Some expressions are better than others. Many are to the detriment of an entire population of people sharing space.

Example: How to get men to grow beards in Turkey

"For example, if you see a man with long hair from afar you may think he is a woman if he does not have a beard. Because nowadays women and men dress similarly. God forbid! You could be possessed by indecent thoughts," he said, apparently referring to same-sex relationships.


While homosexuality has long been legalized in Turkey and is not officially persecuted, unlike in many other Muslim-majority states, conservative Islamic preachers consider all same-sex relations to be forbidden. The Turkish LGBT community has also been fighting for the introduction of anti-discrimination laws, as well as for the legalization of same-sex marriage."


Meanwhile, women are mostly veiled. You couldn't possibly mistake an Orthodox Muslim woman for a man because she's covered. It's obvious what's being pointed to here and the motivations for it. The 'west' has touched the region in such a way that it shatters their ideological traditions. Thing is, why should they be preserved? [Rhetorical] There's certainly a number of arguments that could be made for when a society no longer forbids open Homosexuality (starting in Classical Era Greece).

There's pitfalls yes, but there's also perks. In fact, we all benefit from them in our native countries. It's really only a problem when a small number of people try to force a larger group to change an expression without benefit.

What benefit is there to growing a beard? In the West, beard fashion is a thing. Maybe it's more of a benefit to shave, to keep your face out in the open to attract a mate, and keep your skin clear in specific climates.

If these Clerics endeavors were to get a foothold across Europe, it goes beyond hipster beard trends I think.
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#115400 - 12/20/17 10:23 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Its not as multicultural as it is business.

@ Dimitri: The 'who' isn't so important as 'what.' Your point goes both ways. I can go into a culture, learn their language and customs, and do well. People are more or less the same the world over. It actually benefits one to learn another language, see new things and get around. Learn the terrain.

Being conservative all the time leads one to a dead end.

I agree though, the actual 'movement' of multiculturalism seems to be a cover phrase, misleading. It asks people to accept each other's differences and live together, but that is hard to do when people have conflicting beliefs.

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#115401 - 12/21/17 01:07 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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And that's the mistake people make.
They think you can "learn" and assimilate into a culture.

You can't.
Culture is something you are born in.
You simply can't wipe away your own cultural heritage and adapt a new one. Those who tried generally ended up confused and shunned by both.

In West-Europe you can easily see the differences between a Frenchman, Brits and Dutch people. One might cross-check with the other but even after a generation or 2 you'll notice differences.

I even have to look at the US. There's still differences between US-citizens who had German and Irish roots in both culture and attitude. The thing is much deeper than one might expect and willing to admit.
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#115403 - 12/21/17 09:05 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Sabrina27 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
What benefit is there to growing a beard? In the West, beard fashion is a thing. Maybe it's more of a benefit to shave, to keep your face out in the open to attract a mate, and keep your skin clear in specific climates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbHgJdDJPRw
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#115405 - 12/21/17 12:07 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CN
Its not as multicultural as it is business.


I disagree. These self-appointed Imams in the middle east would have the rest of the world follow their instruction. Including but not limited to a theocracy with a political goal. People born to that, don't question it. Just as people born to a Free society, take that freedom for granted.

 Quote:
Being conservative all the time leads one to a dead end.


Which leads to some centrist thinking. Some, but only when it's reasonable and rational.

The multi-cultural movement seeks to destabilize critical foundation. Don't get me wrong, I identify that some people want chaos and watch the world burn... Until it's their stuff.
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#115408 - 12/22/17 01:45 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You simply can't wipe away your own cultural heritage and adapt a new one.

One need not completely assimilate into a culture to survive it, or be accepted. If you know the language and customs, you have done most of the work. I sure as fuck can get along just fine in any culture I choose. The greatest barrier is often language and personal convictions. If you can get over those barriers, you can get along with most people. Like I said, people are generally the same the world over with a few exceptions. If you have half a brain you can adapt.

As far as defending one's culture in a conservative sense, that still has to do with your own personal conviction. There are certain aspects of any culture I find worthy and un worthy of respect.


You are going to find that people are more or less the same the world over, with a few exceptions here and there.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Those who tried generally ended up confused and shunned by both.


Who are "Those" of whom you speak? It sounds like you are just making this up. In my own experience, I've been accepted and often invited into what one might consider strict cultural activities, based on others seeing me worthy of their respect. These cultural going ons are just as human as any other.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Frenchman, Brits and Dutch people-


* They are European, and their similarities often outweigh their differences. They all have an excessive smug attitude of being 'better' than other people, and are also generally accepting and willing to learn about other cultures to. Its that way with a lot of people everywhere.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
even after a generation or 2 you'll notice differences.


Generational differences have to do more with a connection between technology and life-style. More or less, people adopt the same intelligence and stupidity of the previous generations, making the same mistakes and achievements as before.

 Originally Posted By: SIN
These self-appointed Imams in the middle east would have the rest of the world follow their instruction. Including but not limited to a theocracy with a political goal.


Yeah, but they don't rule the world do they? It doesn't matter what culture takes over, the leaders are always going to have demands aren't they? And even so, how would making everyone conform be multicultural?

Its business, getting the whole world to adopt to corporate rule.

 Originally Posted By: SIN
The multi-cultural movement seeks to destabilize critical foundation.


What war has ever destabilized critical foundations, especially concerning human nature? Its the same foundation time and again, no matter how many wars we fight: Total domination through control of resources, no matter what culture. Some are just more desirable because they have less restriction and punishment compared to others.

Multiculturalism means accepting all cultures because we all function under corporate rule the world over. Corporate domination cares little to nothing of your actual culture, with the exception of an advantage in advertisement. But it doesn't matter. No matter where you go, sex sells. Even/especially in censored culture.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (12/22/17 01:53 PM)
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#115409 - 12/22/17 02:42 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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All I can say is this:

Travel more. Do not stay in the big tourist areas in big cities.
You'll get my drift. I'm 100 percent sure your opinion will be revised.

I can use one word to pop the balloon of multi-culturalism and point out the flaws in your response.

Ready? Here it is.

Ghetto.


Edited by Dimitri (12/22/17 02:43 PM)
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#115414 - 12/22/17 06:25 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dimitri]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Do not stay in the big tourist areas in big cities.


The last thing I do is go to the tourist spots. I've always argued that the real culture is outside of the cities. Condensed areas are more or less the same anywhere you go. Some are only cleaner than others, but its all the same commotion.

I personally like the countryside areas best. You meet a lot of simple people, often times farmers and the like. Those are your real conservatives who know how to hold their ground, since they learn to survive off the land, and probably hold more of the old cultural values that matter.

We have ghettos everywhere here in the U.S. You think I've never been in one? I'll be honest, I don't stay long. Part of my self preservation rationality. I don't know what you assume of me, but it seems your a bit off. For example:

Have you ever taken the time to shoot the shit with poor people in your own, or other countries? I've done it. I've done things off the beaten path many wouldn't try. *One thing I do that many won't dare, is travel alone.

People tend to have a certain paranoia being in another land. Its not irrational, but things are generally not always that scary, depending where you go, and especially if you take the time to map the terrain.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (12/22/17 06:39 PM)
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#115447 - 12/26/17 01:39 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dimitri Offline
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I frequently partake in road-trips through countries.
Get to know the locals by either camping (on hiking trips) or working through things like Airbnb.

As for your stay in "Ghetto's".
Obviously you missed a mark. Think again behind the reason of your short stay. You'll see the point more clear.
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#115448 - 12/26/17 09:39 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Make? No, people adopt it willingly. Just have a look see at the UK right now. The sentiment that itís Ďjustí shared culture is popular. Designer Hibjabs are normalized, until women start wearing them as a fashion. Then, these Imams and their male followers take action against the populist. They push the government to make so many compromises, these countries lose their own native culture.

It spreads like a virus. This is why so many countries welcome the asylum seeker. They call it xenophobic to refuse them. Then have to deal with the aftermath, which is both social and economic. The world shifts to accommodate. It doesnít require conquest in the traditional sense. Most people donít even realize their regions have been recultured.

Gang rape and acts of terrorism are as typical as a shooting.

Rinse and repeat.
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#115452 - 12/26/17 05:17 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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This is one side of the coin. Another is lurking deep down in the dark recesses of the mind the paranoid fear of the Other. The latter is primal, the former is the result of social conditioning. Take for example a prohibition of burkini on French beaches or the French folks panicking at the sound of fireworks thinking it was yet another terrorist attack. Not to mention occasional burning down of refugee asylums in Germany.

Edited by Czereda (12/26/17 05:18 PM)
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#115458 - 12/26/17 11:46 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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To add: People don't just willingly accept. Why do you think our own country is in such turmoil right now? Make, yes. Its all make. Wordplay doesn't change the essence. Your still talking about the enforcement of new cultural demands, the pushing and shoving of will into manifested results on a cultural invasive level. Willing acceptance, part of whole. These things require as you say, reform institutionalized. Shit don't happen over night, which yes, keeps the uncomfortable just cosy enough, out of sight out of mind, (seeing in the dark helps) but these going-ons are sown and ripe with plan and plot. Business as usual.
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#115460 - 12/27/17 12:12 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dimitri]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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*

Ghettos are often territorial, as is the world. My points are that multiculturalism isn't what people think it is. Its not a merging of cultures, so much as what SIN pointed out, getting several cultures to accept a common rule, which is in fact spreading well beyond western civ. Ghettos are defensive, but even they change.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (12/27/17 12:29 AM)
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#115462 - 12/27/17 09:42 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Actually they do. A lot of what used to be 'traditional' is no longer. Just because we have a few talking points in contest, doesn't mean our own American culture hasn't shifted away from what used to be.

I didn't say it happened over night. It happens over a course of mitigated ideas and propaganda.

Take for instance the argument that the Nation wasn't founded as a Christian Nation. As if Atheists were at the helm? RETCON history is then accepted as the 'real history'; so please.
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#115463 - 12/27/17 02:21 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Tomato/tomatoe. They do and they don't. What I mean by 'just willingly accept' is that you can't just tell people to change, as you say, it takes a period of manipulating ideas and resources.
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#115467 - 12/27/17 05:40 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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If I'm getting it right, you imply who's in the helm dictates who's in the opposition? So then , what would be if Atheists were really at the helm? An alternative History, or the agenda of some who would gain from this?
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#115474 - 12/28/17 11:20 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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No, you haven't understood me correctly. Influence comes from many places, it doesn't require a single actor guiding the ship.

Take a look at Ancient History for example. Do you really think the spread of Christendom was from a sole source? Even the people willing to listen, to hear it out, were looking for something right?

Same is true today. American politics is like that too. The animus of the American identity is a collection of attributes that change with each generation.
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#115493 - 12/31/17 10:55 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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They were looking for something right. Or, they were looking for something, right? Let's take Christendom for example. Did it spread from a single source? Or was it rather a gathering of the general consensus? And how far is this from politics, I wonder.
What really changes is not the attributes, but the general consensus. Leading this, one can only come to the conclusion new generations make the difference.
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#115501 - 01/01/18 11:28 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
Zeno Offline
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Multiculturalism on a scientific level.

Diversity.
Nature loves diversity, it means a system can change, move and evolve through the conflict of opposing ideas. If family members of the same genetic type mate, it produces sick, weak and disabled offspring, which is why it is desirable of having two genetically diverse parents producing young. The same principle applies to a nation state, an ecosystem, or 600club, it is healthy to have a diverse range of ideas, religions and cultures to keep the system fresh, evolving and healthy. History and experience shows that when one set of ideas dominate, and eliminate all other ideas, then a system eventually becomes sick and collapses.

Sustainability.
A system is healthy when the energy coming into the system is in harmony with what is going out. A hospital has only a finite amount of resources, and if the demand on those resources is greater than it can sustain, then a hospital like any other system will collapse. The central anxiety of those against outsiders such as immigrants is that systems such as housing, hospitals, welfare, jobs and education are breaking down because of the pressure increasing numbers of people are placing on those systems in an unsustainable situation. Most of the hostility to those of other ideas or cultures would vanish if the systems were made sustainable.
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#115506 - 01/04/18 11:44 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Zeno]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Zeno
Most of the hostility to those of other ideas or cultures would vanish if the systems were made sustainable.


Theoretically, on paper it all sounds good, but the human animal is dedicated to its adapted routine, especially those ingrained from early age. To re-adapt is very hard, and this can often lead to conflict on levels of what a more intelligent being would consider over extreme nuance, and often is.

One must look at how people make associations, how emotions are processed through those ideas. The human mind is hard wired to merge identity with survival.

Conflict is inevitable. Humans will fight over control of resource. Look at modern India. The government has tried time and again to punish and eliminate the negative results of traditional beliefs and practises, the caste system for example. Nothing works. Not legislation, not policing or increased fine or punishment. If people believe in a way of living, the only outcome of a forced change is total conflict. Who controls resource the best during this kind of change has a great advantage.

*I've offered two perspectives in this thread. Two sides to a coin, so to speak. One can adopt cultural norms to say, blend in, or get along, so as they are willing to do so. Most are not.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (01/04/18 11:49 AM)
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#115514 - 01/07/18 09:18 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Zeno]
fiendish Offline
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Ok, that is so difficult to explain. Nature loves what there is, and there is diversity. The target is there's no opposing ideas, or different genetic pools. You still accept what happens as a rule or a physical order. What if they were all just wrong, you accept as right what most frequently happens, but what if you don't see everything that happens? To determine what really happens needs you to have a complete knowledge about everything, which is something I doubt. I think you've mistaken what is the means with what is the aim.
Anyway, harmony is vague. Sustainability is rather a dynamic relationship , which does not really have to do with numbers. In fact, diversity is most common as the numbers grow. And sustainability also grows by the numbers, since there's a wider gene pool.
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#115518 - 01/08/18 10:14 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Sociology vs. Biology.

On a sociological level, sure things can change. It doesn't mean they are better than they were before by default.

Social trends ebb and flow, human culture relies a lot on acceptance and consensus. Opposing forces can be the 'better' of it. Multi-cultural expressions aren't always the better view, or equate to a better quality of life.

Just look at Sweden while its burning.
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#115523 - 01/10/18 12:37 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Djehuti Offline
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I will tend to agree here with Social Darwinism. At the end social change does not matter. Whatever stands at the end is and was superior from the beginning. Maybe that mixture of cultures will help totally new cultures to emerge as the final winners on the struggle to survival or then they will succumb.

Edited by Djehuti (01/10/18 12:40 PM)
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#115524 - 01/10/18 12:40 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Djehuti]
Djehuti Offline
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We might be on the verge of the formation of new cultures, new traditions and races, very far superior of what we have known until now. Or maybe this crisis is a reminder of standing for western values in order to preserve the same western culture.
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#115528 - 01/11/18 11:56 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Djehuti]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
very far superior of what we have known until now


It could also be inferior and a fast decline of the species. Social Darwinism includes people that need safe spaces from information, mental health due to their distress, and weaknesses that keep them home instead of in the world doing.
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#115557 - 01/18/18 05:06 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Zeno]
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 Quote:
Diversity.
Nature loves diversity, it means a system can change, move and evolve through the conflict of opposing ideas. If family members of the same genetic type mate, it produces sick, weak and disabled offspring, which is why it is desirable of having two genetically diverse parents producing young. The same principle applies to a nation state, an ecosystem, or 600club, it is healthy to have a diverse range of ideas, religions and cultures to keep the system fresh, evolving and healthy. History and experience shows that when one set of ideas dominate, and eliminate all other ideas, then a system eventually becomes sick and collapses.


Problem is that it's not diversity that is spreading, but the ass kissing, to the point of worship of an ancient, intolerant, and oppressive system (Islam), which once it gains enough power, wants to burn down any other culture and belief system in its path.
The way things are going, we are not looking to make the current Western culture better through diversity, but attempting to completely destroy it, and go back a few hundred years in mentality, tradition, and have true intolerance.


 Quote:
The central anxiety of those against outsiders such as immigrants is that systems such as housing, hospitals, welfare, jobs and education are breaking down because of the pressure increasing numbers of people are placing on those systems in an unsustainable situation. Most of the hostility to those of other ideas or cultures would vanish if the systems were made sustainable.


This is partly true, however even if the system was made sustainable, I'd still hate the idea of Islam taking over (even if just out populating) what I consider to be my culture, which is of European background. Living in America, I also would be against European cultures trying to dominate what I consider to be American culture, even though the two in my opinion are quite compatible. As an immigrant myself, I love Americana, and what I see as the American way of life. It's the whole point of moving here.

All these other "cultures," that come here and try to claim how much better theirs is then the culture already established here, can go fuck themselves. By the very fact that they feel the need to move away from their place of origin (I waned to write shit hole country, cause I enjoy people getting pissed off at that) proves that they prefer not to stay in a place where their culture dominates.

I'm not against diversity. Quite the opposite, I love it. But only as long as everyone stays in their own shit hole. You stay in your shit hole, I will stay in mine, and we can visit if we want some diversity in our lives. Or if I really enjoy your culture more then mine, I will move there, and embrace yours without trying to change it. Or visa versa, you come here, and enjoy mine without trying to fuck it up.

I would enjoy visiting a traditionally Muslim country as a tourist, and respect their culture when I'm there, and even take part in it as best as I can in order to get a true experience for it.

If I want to enjoy my own European culture, I would want to visit Europe to experience it....and each country there with their very own culture, the way it was before this whole melting it with shit hole cultures from around the world took over.

Some will say that I'm a hypocrite to claim that I love American culture, but do not appreciate every culture in it, because it's one big melting pot of all cultures.
I don't see it that way. Although it used to be that most cultures in the US would get along, or at least agree to disagree, the different cultures were still allowed to exist individually. The Italians had their traditions, the Irish had theirs, black theirs, and generally if one wanted to experience one or the other of a different culture from their own they were welcome to. Nothing wrong with that.

However, what I see taking place now, is an attempt to intimidate people to embrace one universal culture that they use the term "diversity" for. Yet it's not diversity at all, but an attempt to force everyone into one world culture where anyone who enjoys their own heritage and traditions and does not want to embrace another, is viewed as the enemy of the world, when in fact relatively speaking, it's a small group of old hippies in power who hate the Western world and are attempting to turn it into some Utopian shit hole of forced cultural-ism, which they call multiculturalism, even though this will never happen. One culture eventually will eat up all the rest, and unfortunately it probably wont be the most cognitive and fit culture that wins out, but the one that fucks and reproduces the most.
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#115574 - 01/21/18 03:05 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Well, in fact sociology is an extension of biology. I do not see any opposing forces, except in both. A better quality of life is always the target, though at what price.
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#115579 - 01/22/18 09:53 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Is there an ultimate sacrifice to live at the best quality you can attain? I suppose, for people that live for the approval of others.

Crossing that line can be liberating for some. I've witnessed it, even if I'd consider it small stuff. It's big stuff to other people. What I've also witnessed (and frequently) is that when a person embraces a foreign culture, it's a mindfuck. The tendency to share, push, and propagate it others is very curious that it makes me skeptical. What's really going on there?

Culture is just people expressing ideas and feelings. If a set of ideas are foreign, not of your nation; it does produce some pretty odd behaviors.


Recently, white Europeans have been converting to Islam so quickly that it's been projected to be the largest Religion in the world by 2070. Then what? That's what I want to know.
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#115611 - 01/25/18 02:23 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Well, it is pretty acceptable there's skepticism about change. Think about it. A culture is like a collective behavior. There is nothing wrong about it, also nothing right. Maybe you could call it a religion. The urge for internal approval is really a mechanism that bonds them together.
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#115614 - 01/25/18 05:53 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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In a microcosmic sense it is. On the Macro it's just humans expressing themselves. This is why the fringe is so attractive to the herd. It's different and doesn't match their own.
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#115622 - 01/26/18 04:57 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
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Slightly off topic... But the USA has like 250million people. That is sooo many people. What number is considered optimal capacity, or sustainable capacity for your piece of dirt? At what point are you allowed to simply say, "We're full. Fuck off."


Edited by ShadowLover (01/26/18 05:14 PM)
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#115624 - 01/26/18 05:37 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: ShadowLover]
Czereda Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ShadowLover
Slightly off topic... But the USA has like 250million people. That is sooo many people. What number is considered optimal capacity, or sustainable capacity for your piece of dirt? At what point are you allowed to simply say, "We're full. Fuck off."


And what for? It's better to keep admitting people beyond your capacity and allow for "healthy" fist and gun competition (Who will stand and who will fall?) or just let the whole thing degenerate into chaos. It would be more interesting that way.

Not sure if you watched that lame movie "Elysium." It ends with the protagonists trying to literally squeeze all the inhabitants of the poor overpopulated Earth into the tiny cosmic paradise. A way to turn it into hell if you let your diabolical imagination go wild.


Edited by Czereda (01/26/18 05:39 PM)
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#115630 - 01/28/18 03:27 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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What is really intriguing is the supposed difference between microcosm and macrocosm. In fact , such is the difference between the fringe and the herd. If you come to think about it there's an analogy of what does not match between the two versions. There is what herds them, which is totally acceptable, then it's what leads to stray, which is just expressing themselves.
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#115637 - 01/29/18 10:13 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Could you cite an example?

Take for instance the art world. There's much debate over who or what constitutes art. Is it the gallery owners? Learning a technique? Managing to change a person's perspective? The artists? Et. Al.

So this guy comes along and starts gluing dildos to images of Christ to cause controversy. Then Piss Christ happened.


How would you frame that?
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#115663 - 02/02/18 12:25 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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You have a point here. And then there's the Pink Flamingos. The character Babs (Divine) in the final scene of the movie had to eat dog feces. Divine says, "I followed that dog around for three hours just zooming in on its asshole, waiting for it to empty its bowels so that they could film the scene." As a matter of fact , "Pink Flamingos" is part of John Waters "Trash Trilogy".
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#115672 - 02/03/18 05:13 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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The framing of it? What would you consider it? You didnít seem to address it aside for agreeing with a point Iíve made.
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#115679 - 02/04/18 06:49 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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It has no real purpose other than provocation. Art generally is associated with something nice or/and beautiful. Even with figures that seem ugly, the sentiment that is produced eventually leads to catharsis. This little piece of shit (or urine, if you prefer) has nothing to do with art, except if you consider provocation as art. Art may be provocative, but everything provocative is not art.
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#115691 - 02/06/18 11:39 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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That's the problem with defining Art. There doesn't seem to be a solid definition we all agree upon. The idea that Art is something aesthetically attractive has failings. Art is provocation. Ideally, it's supposed to change your perception of even the most mundane of things. Such as pee in a jar with a crucifix.

The mulitcultural aspect of Art is undeniable. It accounts for why the jar provokes only a specific culture while others look at it and just say WTF that's art?
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#115718 - 02/09/18 10:35 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Well, that only a specific culture is provoked by a certain piece of art proves nothing. In fact what is intriguing is that art cannot be targeted, since pieces of art can get multiple meanings. Basically art has to stimulate with no exact reason and with no exact aim. It is expressed through symbols , which may have different meanings for the artist and the ones who watch it. Then, some symbols may be so precise that can be connected with a certain culture, then it's the big picture that contains more symbols that stay in the background. In the end , what remains is only the stimuli caused by that certain piece of art and not any reasoning of it.
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#115719 - 02/09/18 10:38 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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By what standard or definition? That's precisely my point. What you say, what I say, isn't etched in stone. It's like trying to nail Jello to a wall.
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#115722 - 02/09/18 01:36 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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It depends on how you see it. You put the frame. Either you like it or not. You could even nail anybody on the wall. It's your choice. It seems to me that's art.
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#116351 - 05/29/18 09:29 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
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Multiculturalism isn't really meant to mean huge waves of immigrants from other cultures replacing a pre-existent culture though. For instance you have a few Asians over there, a few black people over there, a few Indians over there and so on. Everyone else in our part of the world will be homogenised whiter than the whitest white. So 'multiculturalism' is ideally what we would like to have rather than something to complain out. If we're talking about massive ethnic population displacement that's a different subject entirely. That's not something we're really experiencing in the West though, even in say France Muslims only represent 7.5% of the of the population. If it was say 40% of the population that would no longer be a 'multicultural' situation it would be a population upheaval to a new dominant culture or ethnic group kind like what happen in Anglo Saxon England. I don't really think that's going to happen though you will find there will be a certain level of absorption into the indigenous culture, people will intermarry with the indigenous group and so on.

There isn't a Jewish conspiracy to replace a population with something else. Even if there was I don't think they would want to replace us all with Muslims.

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#116352 - 05/29/18 10:30 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dark One]
Czereda Offline
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While I wouldn't go as far as calling it a Jewish conspiracy, multiculturalism alongside ecology is a kind of a new religion, at least in the EU. It basically means accepting the huge numbers of immigrants for solely ideological reasons. If in the past the inhabitants of the former colonies were allowed to arrive in Europe because they provided cheap labor, now the swarms of Muslims are admitted just because they belong to the human species. Save humanity and save the whole fucking planet are new sickening dogmas. Every country which belongs to the great "European family" is expected to help the newcomers because they say they need help. It's an irrational and self-defeating approach.
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#116354 - 05/29/18 12:10 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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The multi-cultural trappings also include excusing behaviors because it's typically native to their culture. Citizens feel as though the government gives them too much leeway, which leads to a sense of unease and anger for unfair prosecution. If you were born and raised in the country, the max sentence is issued. If you're a new migrant, you may even have your case dismissed. No matter the crime.

This too influences culture.
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#116357 - 05/29/18 06:32 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Dark One Offline
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It's only the 'crazy asshole Muslims' that are really the problem not the Muslims that are more less kind of like normal people. The idea is the Muslims you have in a multicultural society are the more or less ordinary people you don't have a segregated enclave of crazy assholes. What a country like Germany is doing with it's Muslim population isn't necessarily multiculturalism it really cultural segregation. There is a real issue but if you just go on about the evils of 'multiculturalism' and 'the Muslims' as if they're exactly the same you're just going to be ignored or called a racist. The actual serious threat you're right to point out will just be ignored and encouraged by the PC elite.
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#116450 - 06/25/18 12:26 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: entropicmomentum]
aeon6 Offline
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For your edification, please read the following:
https://eand.co/why-is-america-the-worlds-most-uniquely-cruel-society-f67afc5c6b9a

I find it will serve you well.

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#116451 - 06/25/18 01:53 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: aeon6]
Czereda Offline
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Idealistic whining. The author contradicted himself the moment he gave the examples of the Roman Empire and the Soviet Union. Further examples could be cited from both the modern times and Antiquity to disprove his theory that constant struggle for dominance and reshuffle of the social pecking order is uniquely an "American thing." The myth of the promised land in itself is bullshit. It doesn't mean the lion laying down together with the lamb.
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#116453 - 06/25/18 10:28 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: aeon6]
Kori Houghton Offline
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The problem isn't ethnic conflict. It's religion. The message being hammered at you is that whatever bad that happening -- to you as an individual or as part of your community -- isn't caused by human (in)action or corruption. And it can't be mitigated by human effort and community spirit. Those things are, like, evil. Like godless communism, unions, and people with university degrees.

I'm reading FANTASYLAND and a quarter of the way through it, I've found food for thought.

Issues like poverty, illiteracy, lack of opportunity, failed infrastructure, child marriage (legal in 49 states!), addiction, and bigotry, can't be addressed with fantasies about imaginary friends, and insisting upon a right to live as if the realities of the material world don't actually exist.

The multicultural conflicts are just a misdirection. Unfortunate enough if you happen to be caught up in them, but not the real problem, in my view.
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#116454 - 06/25/18 10:49 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dark One]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dark One
It's only the 'crazy asshole Muslims' that are really the problem not the Muslims that are more less kind of like normal people.
Crazy as in ascribed mental illness, or political Muslims that have a militarized agenda? I don't negate the billions that follow Islam that aren't necessarily violent but culture saturation can be a threat. Especially where the localized government makes so many concessions for immigrants that you barely recognize it, and special considerations are extended that are to the detriment of native born people.

 Quote:
The idea is the Muslims you have in a multicultural society are the more or less ordinary people you don't have a segregated enclave of crazy assholes.
Some that immigrate intend to assimilate to a degree without giving up their native culture. There is however a larger number that intend on changing the culture they immigrate to. It's a silent invasion. Much like the millions of minor children sent with adult companions to Europe and the U.S.; this has been going on for decades.

 Quote:
What a country like Germany is doing with it's Muslim population isn't necessarily multiculturalism it really cultural segregation.
I'd say it's more of a response to the people with their demands. There are gaggles of people policing native German culture and demanding that it change. They post signs all over the place warning of this and that, they harass people at public beaches, parks, people going about their business, etc. The government doesn't seem to know what to do, even though it invented the problem with opening the flood gates.

 Quote:
There is a real issue but if you just go on about the evils of 'multiculturalism' and 'the Muslims' as if they're exactly the same you're just going to be ignored or called a racist. The actual serious threat you're right to point out will just be ignored and encouraged by the PC elite.


Certainly, it's all about approach and delivery. It also depends greatly on your targeted audience. One can call a spade a spade, and not be dismissed. There's gotta be depth to your intention. If it's just to insult a people, then that usually just gets an emotional reaction. If you want people to respond to an issue, you have to bring something of worth to the table.


For example, saying it's just religion isn't accurate in my opinion. It has more to do with region and culture. Religion is just as much a political device as calling for 'diversity'.
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#116456 - 06/25/18 11:55 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Here's the thing,

People have tribes and customs and identify with each other, when you mix two people together like they've done in Europe, you have a cultural cluster fuck. Now the new people are going to try to get a handle on control of resources. That's why people form tribes and societies. There's always a pecking order of hierarchy, the bosses and their circles, down to the common workers. Every family, tribe and society has this special order, based around learned customs ingrained through life.

What's hilarious to me, is that many of these things are more or less the same, but truth be told, your people are your people, others are not. Would you convert to Islam, bow to Mecca every day just because the sultan invites you to his palace? Could you do that? Strangely enough, some will remain in poverty than convert to another culture, because its just not what you grew up on, its not a part of your identity, or your way of life, and most people have a hard time adapting to something new, unless it has great similarity to their previous life style.

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#116458 - 06/25/18 11:47 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
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The semantic difference between integration and assimilation may be worth exploring. Integration can imply nothing more than emigrating to a shiny new land and learning its semiotics but not its language. Sort of like the middle ages in which public symbols guided the illiterate to places of business [pretzel, butcher knife etc.]. Assimilation denotes that "we will add your distinctiveness to our own", in the collective words of the Borg [Star Trek]. Assimilation is a process recognized in physiology, botany, sociology, and phonetics, and I suspect more to be discovered.
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#116460 - 06/26/18 03:48 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: aeon6]
Dark One Offline
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I'm not sure if there is such a thing as 'Islam culture' though. Muslims from the Balkans, the Middle East and Indonesia are culturally distinct. You could say your religion is a huge part of your culture but we're not really joining in with religion of our culture anyway, that being Christianity for 99.9% of the folks here. You could say the concept of Satan is part of Christianity though so we're making an effort to join in a bit, I'm sure Christians appreciate that. Satan kept the Church in business all these years after all.
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#116462 - 06/26/18 12:15 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dark One]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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@aeon: Integration, assimulation, whatever you call it, it comes down to choice. Sometimes people do, they marry into a family, adapt to their culture and way of life, but that's usually because two families have something in common, say one is a Catholic family, the other Orthodox Christian, or maybe they are religious but neither one is against Atheism. Yet, its not common for Christians to marry someone who is Muslim. One religion or the other is going to ask one from the marrying pair to convert, and there are pre-developed associations of mis-trust about the other side to begin with. It might seem bigoted, but truth be told, stick to your own. You get along a little better, be it lovers or friends. I don't think I'll be living in a Muslim country where porn is banned any time soon.

Assimilation and integration are usually by will of the individual, but anything else is forced, and that's more like slavery. Many willingly conform though, which gets into new territory on the subject: How much of our lives are forced by society, and how much of these rules we accept, and why, how much responsibility do we take individually, collectively, etc.

@ Dark One: Sure, you can quantify things as much as you like. If they all share the religion of Islam, its Islam culture. Its all subjective to the region of interest.

Satan is a thing found in many cultures, an undeniable consistency that tests our faith, boundaries, perception, world knowledge and most importantly, our own self-awareness.

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#116463 - 06/27/18 12:11 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
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The tangled issue of intermarriage looms large in the multiculturalism debate, thank you for expounding on that.

That many willingly conform to avoid slavery evokes the practice of proskynesis by Alexander the Great's ventures, even though it was an inverse tactic to conquer. The will to assimilate a greater territory took on a viral proportion for awhile. There are many other [legal] ways one can insert oneself into a culture without obeisance in the modern world, in order to preserve one's dignity. Roaming free without regard to primitive borders, utopian or not. But even in the melting pots there is evident self-segregation, not a very utopian feature but anything very homogenous could be boring too. How one adapts can rely on stasis [rigid irrational religion] or dynamism, a more malleable existence. There you will find the distinction among humans.

Not on a tangent, I'd like to share an obscure film called Nadja [1994, 90min]. She is a continental vamp from Romania living in New York, and is beguiling. Filmed partially in Fisher-Price Pixelvision, an old 80's toy that uses audio cassettes to film video. A film noir of living in the shadows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lzIdEhWvT4

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#116469 - 06/28/18 12:20 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dark One Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3

There is however a larger number that intend on changing the culture they immigrate to.



As a rule the culture and/or political system that fits best with human nature will absorb or marginalise everything else. Western culture and capitalist democracy fits the bill nicely. It's not quite 100% the full pure Satanic ideal of civilisation (America being the most Satanic of nations founded by people who were Satanists in all but name) but it's close as good enough.

If you take the Cold War for instance you had to opposing ideologies but the ideology that was the best fit for human nature as it really is won out in the end. The same thing will ultimately happen to militant or puritanical Islam, we're a far bigger threat to their way of doing things than they are to us. All we really have to do to win out is do what we always do best, be a liberal inclusive and utterly tolerant society complete with freedom of speech and equal rights for all with emphasis on individual responsibility and financial and material aspiration.


 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii


@ Dark One: Sure, you can quantify things as much as you like. If they all share the religion of Islam, its Islam culture. Its all subjective to the region of interest.



If you have a read of the Islamic books they always insist that Islam is not a cultural religion but universal for all mankind. A Muslim African, a European, a Chinese person and an Inuit would therefore have very different cultures but they would have pure true monotheism with the uncorrupted Holy text of the Quran as transcribed by Mohammed the last prophet of Allah. Everyone is apparently born a Muslim but then you get various false teaching children are brought up to believe if they don't get enough exposure to a decent bit of Quranic teaching.


From our point of view you get a bunch of people going around wearing strange clothes and/or changing their names to something that sounds suitably Islamic and/or they start growing their beards or 'covering' their beauty' in the case of women. All that stuff is technically optional though to be fair. So it's possible to convert to Islam and look and act like your your a normal who doesn't follow a religion made up by an Arab 7th century warlord.


 Quote:

Satan is a thing found in many cultures, an undeniable consistency that tests our faith, boundaries, perception, world knowledge and most importantly, our own self-awareness.



Satanism is technically a religion made up by a 20th century circus lion tamer but he based it on something that has always been around in all cultures and known by various different names throughout the ages. Mohammed by contrast just got hold of the Bible and rearranged the text making it somehow far less but also and much more silly than it was to start with.


Edited by Dark One (06/28/18 12:40 PM)

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#116471 - 06/28/18 04:39 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dark One]
Czereda Offline
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Oh really? The thing with the Cold War wasn't really about ideology but rather about power and economy. Socialism failed because as an economic system it was ineffective. Russia though is still an authoritarian country. Democracy hasn't yet won there. If you look at the political situation in the world, you can see that most countries are not democratic or are only partly democratic, with many being utterly authoritarian. Your theory that democracy fits human nature in the best way possible is purely subjective.

As far as Muslim immigrants are concerned, I will tell you one thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with cockroaches. They aren't even particularly dangerous. But it's just better not to have them in your home.
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#116472 - 06/28/18 05:24 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Czereda]
Dark One Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Oh really? The thing with the Cold War wasn't really about ideology but rather about power and economy. Socialism failed because as an economic system it was ineffective.


It was ineffective because it went against human nature. Human nature is greed, the possession and owning of stuff, materialism. Communism on paper sounds like a nice idea but it can't really work in reality.


 Quote:
Russia though is still an authoritarian country. Democracy hasn't yet won there.


What they have got is an Oligarchy but it isn't a dominant super power to rival the West anymore we won the Cold War once the Berlin Wall came down.


 Quote:
If you look at the political situation in the world, you can see that most countries are not democratic or are only partly democratic, with many being utterly authoritarian. Your theory that democracy fits human nature in the best way possible is purely subjective.


The countries that aren't real capitalist democracies are also complete shite holes. The only countries that really thrive are those that best suit human nature. Bear in mind humans though tribal are also greatly social we can integrate new members into our tribe that's what the West has historically done very well. See the Roman Empire for instance, probably the most successful and Satanic and culturally inclusive civilisations to ever exist. It collapsed soon after Christianity removed it's balls but it's core values survived on and has been passed down to us.


 Quote:
As far as Muslim immigrants are concerned, I will tell you one thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with cockroaches. They aren't even particularly dangerous. But it's just better not to have them in your home.


No no no no what we do as Westerners is take something like Islam and make it into something that belongs to us (All your base are belong to us). All religions and cultures will belong to Satan just like Christianity is now His plaything and His toy of amusement. That aside if you take the Roman Empire they were masters at taking religions and gods from other cultures and assimilating it into their own. Now that the Christian religion has finally become subjugated to Satan's will we have come around full circle we in essence the new Roman Empire centralised around the US.

I'm not saying Islam will overnight become as fully 'Satanised' as Christianity it will be a gradual drip drip effect over time. The speed of which we will claim it Satan will be lengthened if we go around trying to stoke up a 'Us versus them' mentality. That's really what the Islamists want us to do they want to create clear division and distinction between them and us. They would be the first to agree that Western society is Satanic society and they appreciate the power Satan has even if they think Allah has more. We know they're wrong and we don't need to fundamentally change our winning Western liberated formula of success to suit them.

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#116473 - 06/28/18 06:12 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dark One]
Czereda Offline
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Well... Russia might not be the dominant super power but it still plays a crucial role in international politics. The same goes for China, another country that we wouldn't call democratic.

The Roman Empire's expansion and cultural inclusiveness was one of the reasons of its final downfall.

The rest of your post is such a mind-boggling crap that I honestly started wondering if you're a troll. The US being a Satanic nation? All religions belonging to Satan? LMAO.


Edited by Czereda (06/28/18 06:13 PM)
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#116474 - 06/28/18 11:46 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Czereda]
aeon6 Offline
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If Maslow's Hierarchy pyramid is any reflection of a satanic ethos, then yes towers of babel will fail. Self-actualization is a luxury for the teaming masses more concerned with rivalry for basics.
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#116477 - 06/29/18 11:02 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Czereda]
Dark One Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 84
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Well... Russia might not be the dominant super power but it still plays a crucial role in international politics. The same goes for China, another country that we wouldn't call democratic.


Still very much on the decline compared to what they were, the power they still have comes from their oil reserves but they're not unlimited. China did better once it adopted Western Capitalist values it but in order to become a super power it must do everything we did in the last 100 years. Otherwise it will hit a bottleneck and stall.


 Quote:

The Roman Empire's expansion and cultural inclusiveness was one of the reasons of its final downfall.


Quite the opposite it's final downfall came when other societies surrounding the Roman Empire began to include it into their culture rather than the other way around. The most inclusive culture will ultimately dominate while the culture that tries to stick to it's own will go into decline. So for instance Western culture is dominate because we incorporate while Islam is very much on the decline as it tries to remain to one side as it's own separate thing.


 Quote:

The rest of your post is such a mind-boggling crap that I honestly started wondering if you're a troll. The US being a Satanic nation? All religions belonging to Satan? LMAO.


It's a fancy way of saying religions are subservient to the needs of a secularised society. The Christianity we have today as the bulk of people practice it bears very little resemblance to the Christianity of old, it's really more a hedonistic indulgence for wealthy comfortable people to feel smug about themselves. Therefore Satanic at the core with thin outer skin of pseudo spiritualness. In any case the US was never a Christian nation but a Satanic nation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzRhwJx_EEA


The Founding Fathers were of course Satanists or at least the 18th century equivalent of the time. Products of the Enlightenment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tArrkb9xwBM

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#116479 - 06/29/18 07:37 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dark One]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
You mean Seventeenth Century... and while rebellious, I don't think they were very Satanic.

Christianity has always been about worship and conformity. Jesus himself was rebellious, but not completely Satanic either...

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#116489 - 07/02/18 05:30 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
The Founding Fathers were of course Satanists or at least the 18th century equivalent of the time. Products of the Enlightenment.


Ugggghhh this thread. Seriously? Talk about gross sweeping generalizations. It could be argued that all matters of the people are self-centered, therefore Satanic. Go ahead, I'll get the popcorn.


If by 'Satanic' you mean The Satanic Temple equivalent, sure. A piece of paper written by young adults to prevent man's penchant for power and control as a preventative measure. I'm sure they're having a good laugh from beyond the grave. Oh wait...
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#116552 - 07/11/18 11:31 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Seems you didn't name the quote, which was not me.

But on the subject, people will label, mix and match bits and parts of other ideologies, call themselves and others whatever fits the narrative they promote. Nothing of detail or refinement matters to political minded people anymore, except attacking the enemy and justifying their actions against guilt, shame, and worst of all in their tiny pea brains, responsibility.

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#116578 - 07/18/18 12:03 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
Seems you didn't name the quote, which was not me.


Correct. It's simply the result of using the Reply button, vs the Reply to Topic button. I didn't really see a need to quote the specific user. You did, apparently.

 Originally Posted By: CN
Nothing of detail or refinement matters to political minded people...


I suppose that depends on their motivations. For example, anyone can be labeled a 'Satanist' by the gen pop and it have no real meaning aside "Those people aligned with the Devil..." It may or may not be worthy of denials. It depends greatly on the intent of the public.

Look at Damien Echols as a high-profile example of this. He'd more likely label himself an Occultist, or perhaps Thelemite but that doesn't exactly unpack it. It certainly didn't do him any favors when he stood accused of murder. Much of which came about from his own words and actions among his peers.

He was 'other' certainly, especially in a podunk religious town. He was out of his league in defense, and that's mostly attributed to naivety and youth. I'd say the same is true for every run of the mill person that stumbles upon this site.

I've witnessed people do a 180 over time and reject that they understood the subject matter at all. Even if they were a rather zealous proselytizer at points in their posting history.

Eventually, I think people get off LaVey and Acquino's dick. but that also depends on their motivations for using the I.D. pin in the first place.
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#116579 - 07/18/18 02:33 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
I question a lot of things, even the people I admire. This is something I notice lacking in many others. People defend their idols and beliefs as if they are impenetrable.

Point is that for most, the desire for group acceptance is overwhelming, factors of individuals who look to a group, idea, or idol before they look into themselves.

Some say we live in a society where personal development is limited because of materialism, capitalism, and consumerism. From my experience, people have more expectations of others than they do of themselves, and there are too many groups who want all the control. This makes for a society of demanding from others over personal competence.

I like to socialize with people, but I've never been able to be friends on politics or religion alone.

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#116582 - 07/19/18 11:34 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
I think most relationships are momentary, as they serve our needs/wants. You could easily walk away from any of them. It's a societal notion that you should cling to them 'unconditionally' and with permanence.

I suppose it's why I find long-term relationships with anyone pretty fascinating. The endurance of it all. Doesn't matter what it is, friendship, marriage, family, dating, etc. That I don't have that sort of attachment is often regarded as a refusal to settle down. To me, it's a refusal to settle on anything not worth a shit to me.
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#116590 - 07/21/18 11:10 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Bit of a tangent, but my point is solid enough:

There's two kinda people in this world: Those who feel its their duty to tell others how to act and behave about every little nuance, and remind people when they're breaking the rules. Then there's people who live and let live, and I get along more with the later. I've seen people break the rules, and I don't go whining and reporting about it. I don't give a fuck.

This isn't to say I don't have certain rules and limits of my own, but those are of a different variety from the nosy little shitlings in the example above.

Another, there's two kinds of cultures: Those who whine and bitch and piss and moan about their half-assed oppression, and those who focus on command and conquer, individually, and culturally.

For example, if blacks say that their people have been oppressed for 200 years, and that they only finally got some rights then I say, you know what, took ya long enough. Now, I could play the Irish card, and say my Irish heritage has been oppressed for 800 years, but I'd rather play the Roman card instead. Though I am not a tribal minded individual, the following is good enough for shiggles:

See I have Italian roots, the most hated minority, and the most successful. Mexicans, blacks, and sometimes even aisians all piss and whine about the white man, but when the white man tries putting the boot down on Italians, well, let's just say they deal with it, their way. It took 100 years for the white man to finally get some handle on a particular Italian sub-cultural establishment. So of course now that it is mostly disbanded, Italians have taken to professionalism, more successful high-paid professionals by ratio than any other minority. Maybe it stems from a background of a dominate culture, Roman blood, perhaps one of the most innovative cultures in all Western history: They taught best how to fight, kill, build, cook eat and fuck.

Liberals and conservatives alike say I shouldn't be proud of it, and to that, I only got one thing to tell 'em:

VAFFANGUL'!

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#116595 - 07/23/18 04:53 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Pretty sure you spelled that wrong. heh

I think Eurocentricism is really weird. I mean, I get that ancestral lines can have some relevance from a medical perspective but culturally?

I'd love to burn the Italian-American culture I was raised in to the ground because it stinks of pretentious bullshit so far removed from the native culture it's not even recognizable. Italian Nationals would likely turn their nose up at it, yanno? I especially love Americans that make up their own versions of language that they pretend to be more ethnic. (Ask me about linglish sometime).

What's wrong with being American? And as Americans you'd certainly not be griping about oppression this century. FFS, we have so much entitlement people wouldn't know oppression if it crawled up their ass.

I don't take for granted all the battles fought before my birth so I could reap the benefits, but you'd think many of these women and alleged 'marginalized groups' were born a hundred years ago by the way they speak and protest.

If anything, the two types are those that can endure Conflict and those that are broken by it.

Beware of the broken sort, I say.
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#116596 - 07/24/18 11:44 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Vaffa/Baffa, two ways, same difference. Also applies to culture. The expression might vary, but the message is the message, and that's what counts. Language changes from region to region, and the same to thumbing noses, like north vs south. It applies here in America as well as Italy. Who's right? Who's more pretentious? Is modern Europe/Italy so free of irrationality?

I actually don't care who did what first, and I agree on your last point. A solid tradition is a resourceful one, old or new. To speak more your language, yes, the effective vs. defective is what makes or breaks a culture.

I think its weird you criticize Italian Americans for deviating from their European values, but also those who focus on it. If by Eurocentrism you mean people who apply historical dark times to modern America, that would be laughable. You'd think they would be more appreciative of living in the here and now, knowing the grizzly details of other times and places. The only thing there, is that human nature repeats itself.

As for what's wrong with being an American... well... I agree that we have a lot of resources, but there's also a lot of fat people who die of heart attacks every year. I thank myself that I am not one of those, which has more to do with me and my personal life circumstance and choices, than it does with some label called American.

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#116599 - 07/26/18 10:40 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
I think its weird you criticize Italian Americans for deviating from their European values, but also those who focus on it. If by Eurocentrism you mean people who apply historical dark times to modern America, that would be laughable. You'd think they would be more appreciative of living in the here and now, knowing the grizzly details of other times and places. The only thing there, is that human nature repeats itself.


It's not so much a deviation as it is, foreign to them. It's an attempt to reclaim something that was never theirs to begin with. And was it so great in the first place? Whether historical or present, makes no difference to me.

As far as the multicultural aspects in the U.S. we can indulge in and appreciate? Food, clothing, Music and that's about it. Everything else was put through a blender ages ago. #Americana

That people are fat isn't unique to location as it is to habit and wealth. Poor people survive off junk food and have junk habits. Not to say there's not wealthy fat people that indulge in their whims, there certainly are. But by class, you see the why and how of it. Choices play a role but so do ambitions. Map/Territory type deal.

The same applies with whether a person just talks or does. The results will show you.
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#116614 - 07/28/18 11:00 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Timi Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/28/18
Posts: 7
Loc: Finland
Wouldn't it take a away all the exotisisms of the different cultures?
I mean I love to visit different countries and see all the strange and different things I'm not seeing in my own country. When I visit some foreign country I want it to look and be different than mine, not the same.
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#116624 - 07/29/18 06:57 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Timi]
Zeno Offline
member


Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 149
 Originally Posted By: Timi
Wouldn't it take a away all the exotisisms of the different cultures?
I mean I love to visit different countries and see all the strange and different things I'm not seeing in my own country. When I visit some foreign country I want it to look and be different than mine, not the same.


Nature loves diversity, healthy systems, since everything is a system, needs diversification to keep things moving, changing and evolving. Those who desire too much order through stagnation, sameness and conformity, end up with decay, ruin and death.
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#116626 - 07/29/18 12:28 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Zeno]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I suppose it's why I find long-term relationships with anyone pretty fascinating. The endurance of it all. Doesn't matter what it is, friendship, marriage, family, dating, etc. That I don't have that sort of attachment is often regarded as a refusal to settle down.


And yet here we are.

I agree, more or less. Long term relationships with the right people can and often are beneficial. That aside, I think a lot of the best relationships I had were in fact very short. I have met some amazing people who I only knew for a short time in my travels, who I admire and will never forget.

As for 'reclaiming' that all depends on the subjective. A lot of traditions are passed down generation to generation, and change over time, or not at all.

@Timi and Zeno: I didn't say I wanted everything to be the same. I also enjoy seeing new places, that's a part of what makes life exciting.

Thing is, when you get right down to it, you're going to find that people are mostly the same the world over. Cultures vary in social stability and resource.

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#116637 - 07/30/18 11:44 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CN
As for 'reclaiming' that all depends on the subjective. A lot of traditions are passed down generation to generation, and change over time, or not at all.


Certainly, and many are deserving of fading into obscurity because there is little benefit in continuing, aside from preserving custom.

#BlameBabylon

Multiculturalism is unavoidable, and claims of Homogeneity most of the time are just plain ignorant. For example, would you expect to see Tea customs in Japan? Thank China.
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#116934 - 08/30/18 10:09 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
Dactylion Offline
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Registered: 03/22/18
Posts: 2
Multiculturalism as we're currently seeing it, are multiple cultures living independently within the same society.

Each abide by their own values which inevitably changes the political and cultural practices and social normatives once the population grows to a certain size.

That is not to be confused with the merging or adoption of other cultural practices and/or values into a dominant one.

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#117305 - 10/28/18 10:12 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dactylion]
Milchar Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 38
Loc: GŲteborg, Sweden
Another negative aspect of the present multiculturalism is that it actually works in one direction only -- towards welcoming more conservative cultures than the western one. We are being told to respect the values of Muslims, religious Jews, christianized pseudo-Hinduists, etc., but a culture more liberal than the western one cannot expect the same respect to its practices. For example, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was forced out from the USA, because he and his followers were creating a new, more liberal culture. This all makes me think that the multiculturalism is actually a propaganda campaign aiming to show that no better culture than the present Western one can ever exist.
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#117321 - 10/29/18 01:20 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Milchar]
TheChess Offline
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Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
i dont trust in multiculturalism: if you move from one country to another one, you must be able to feel the local culture, otherwise you're in the wrong place. It's just respect..

when you're a foreign in your motherland you fell that. my 2 cents
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#117322 - 10/29/18 04:58 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Dactylion]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Oh? As if society as a whole doesn't conform to the dominant Judeo-Christian group?

Do our laws align with a benign set of Ethics?

Please tell me you're not this ignorant. Change my mind.
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#117323 - 10/29/18 05:24 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
TheChess Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
More in general, "culture", for ex. the language, traditions.. just an acceptable standard of living and understand why a place is that place, or you wish a paris look like beirut?

for you is acceptable to rape people, sell girls (or kids) for mandatory marriages? i'm not that kind of ignorant. about you?


Edited by TheChess (10/29/18 05:25 PM)
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#117324 - 10/29/18 06:24 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
More in general, "culture", for ex. the language, traditions.. just an acceptable standard of living and understand why a place is that place, or you wish a paris look like beirut?

for you is acceptable to rape people, sell girls (or kids) for mandatory marriages? i'm not that kind of ignorant. about you?


No. A lot of times it's just Stockholm syndrome and some women have been trained to not accept anything better and to think they don't deserve a good life. And sometimes that kind of sadness is just dressed up in intellectual mumbo jumbo. More intelligent people are better able to disguise the most simple and basic human emotions.

Like what is that formula? Is that like some advanced calculus? Nope. That's the formula for sadness. Don't you see the imaginary numbers?

And don't judge what you don't understand. It's likely she agrees with you but because you might lack a certain sense of the problems or whatever she probably just thinks you might be a psychic vampire and might find it fun to try and corrupt your sense of morality and test your level of ignorance. Having an idea of goodness and saying the right things doesn't make you a good person. It takes backbone to actually show love and care for some of these horrible scenarios. And if you might get upset from a little devil's advocate from this then it might demonstrate your lack of character, not whether those things are right or wrong.

With SIN you have to be diligent. You might think the subject is alcohol or drugs or sex-trafficking, but in her mind she's already made you the subject before you even know what hit you.


Edited by samowens84 (10/29/18 06:29 PM)

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#117326 - 10/29/18 07:03 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: samowens84]
TheChess Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
And don't judge what you don't understand

try to live months in the desert, not for holidays , simply living in a tent, with beduins people. try to do the service in the army, gain experiences across the world.


maybe you don't understand what i mean, and just judge me.

tell me your experiences and your results descovered not with newspaper and television, but on your skin, like i did.

maybe you live in a place where that problems are just stockholm sindrome. lucky place.

But in my opinion, the european way of multiculturalism is a faillure, is just create big ghettos of angry people, destroy the local cultures and of course a nice legal way to trafficking human meat.

thanks for the warning, but im shure that she don't bite.
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#117327 - 10/29/18 07:41 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
 Quote:
And don't judge what you don't understand

try to live months in the desert, not for holidays , simply living in a tent, with beduins people. try to do the service in the army, gain experiences across the world.


What makes you think I haven't?

 Originally Posted By: TheChess
 Quote:
And don't judge what you don't understand

maybe you don't understand what i mean, and just judge me.


Defensive much? It's not my responsibility to decipher what you mean. It's your responsibility to accept your truth, not mine. Perhaps you should ask yourself why some text on a screen makes you feel "judged," cause that ain't me doing it.

 Originally Posted By: TheChess
 Quote:
And don't judge what you don't understand

tell me your experiences and your results descovered not with newspaper and television, but on your skin, like i did.


What makes you think SIN hasn't experienced those things as well? You challenged her regarding whether she supported those things, which does seem to come from a place of potential judgement. Or maybe you want some empathy or sympathy. Who knows.

You'd probably get a better reaction if you actually decided to be 100% clear on what's motivating you and go with that. Be raw if that's what you want. That kind of humanity can't be fucked with. Not even on a screen. Perhaps you're just semi-hypnotized with intellectualism as a method to compartmentalize your pain, or not. Who knows? It's not my place to say. Point is, commit to one way of communication or another. It's that kind of half assed commitment to one method of expression or the other that invites abuse and misunderstanding.

 Originally Posted By: TheChess
 Quote:
And don't judge what you don't understand

maybe you live in a place where that problems are just stockholm sindrome. lucky place.


That or perhaps I've given up expecting that my pain or my experiences might be treated with a compassionate response from a complete stranger and so I've decided to be intellectual right now, as per your lack of commitment to one method of communication or the other. Have some guts. Or not. Either way I don't care. You'll get more respect in either case if you know what your will is and learn to live in that, in either case.

Seems like your itching for a beautiful raw human moment here. Something we seldom get on the 600club because too many people are busy trying to pretend they're "sinister" or whatever.

 Originally Posted By: TheChess
 Quote:
And don't judge what you don't understand

But in my opinion, the european way of multiculturalism is a faillure, is just create big ghettos of angry people, destroy the local cultures and of course a nice legal way to trafficking human meat.


Agreed. And what are you doing about it?

 Originally Posted By: TheChess
And thanks for the warning, but im shure that she don't bite.


You might be right here. She might reward sincerity with sincerity. If you have the guts to actually put yourself out there.

However, I wouldn't suggest taking her kindness for granted. That depends on your worth.

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#117328 - 10/29/18 10:33 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Milchar]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 209
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Milchar
Another negative aspect of the present multiculturalism is that it actually works in one direction only -- towards welcoming more conservative cultures than the western one. We are being told to respect the values of Muslims, religious Jews, christianized pseudo-Hinduists, etc., but a culture more liberal than the western one cannot expect the same respect to its practices. For example, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was forced out from the USA, because he and his followers were creating a new, more liberal culture. This all makes me think that the multiculturalism is actually a propaganda campaign aiming to show that no better culture than the present Western one can ever exist.



Please explain how bio terrorism and illegal wiretapping work to create a "new, more liberal, culture". Or are you some kind of conspiracy buff who doesn't believe the events that "forced" the Bhagwan out of the USA actually happened?
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#117329 - 10/29/18 11:39 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: samowens84]
TheChess Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
What makes you think I haven't?


seriously?
you're for shure a good lawyer (are you SIN's lawyer ? you don't trust in her dialectic capabilities?) but if you have really lived with other cultures in the right context you simply see how dangerous and useless are a multicultural way like this one.

So seriously, i don't think you have experiences in that field. maybe a little gained on discovery channel or cnn or other sat/cable television.

ending: just look what happen world wide: fear in every country. every country has seen a rise in the right (politic movments, partys) as answer to multiculturalism and other problems. that's just open eyes and see that something went wrong.
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#117336 - 10/30/18 03:08 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
 Quote:
What makes you think I haven't?


seriously?
you're for shure a good lawyer (are you SIN's lawyer ? you don't trust in her dialectic capabilities?)


Lol I'm not SIN's lawyer. I'm doing this to amuse myself.
You might say I'm doing my best to steal her thunder because she was slow getting up to the plate. Slow you roll.

You speak like her though in the clever way you made me the subject. If I didn't know any better I'd suspect you being a sock account for SIN.

This has taken an amusing turn.

I mean I could let her argue with herself, but where's the fun in that? That would be a blood bath. No one wants to see that.


Edited by samowens84 (10/30/18 03:15 PM)

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#117348 - 11/01/18 11:54 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
More in general, "culture", for ex. the language, traditions.. just an acceptable standard of living and understand why a place is that place, or you wish a paris look like beirut?

for you is acceptable to rape people, sell girls (or kids) for mandatory marriages? i'm not that kind of ignorant. about you?


But you haven't actually addressed why these practices would be considered abbhorent. What people deemed them so? Why is it immoral to do so? What agency should be doling out punishments, which can be rather arbitrary once you start examining case files.

What was an 'acceptable standard of living' in the U.S. for the better part of a century was in fact rooted in Judeo-Christian world views. There are plenty of examples that could be pointed to.

Harlotry
Adultery
Blue Laws
Consequences for Disobeying one's parents

Et, Al, Etc. Figured I'd lead off with these.
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#117350 - 11/01/18 12:33 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
TheChess Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
never talked about abborhend, immoralism, or traditions related to Judeo-Christianism, or the dualism good/wrong. I think that's an antiquated concept.

my answer is about Common sense.

In Africa rape a children is a common cure to AIDS, that's can be lecit in Africa, for someone. Not for me. Of course Not in my land.

For the US "acceptable standard of living" i dont know. But all the "j-c inspired" crimes are about personal freedom.. so now that laws i hope are expired, do you wanna that another culture in the name of multiculturalism reintroduce that kind of laws?

my opinion is clear.
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#117382 - 11/07/18 08:19 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1424
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
my opinion is clear.
You overestimate yourself.
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#117383 - 11/07/18 11:59 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: XiaoGui17]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
my opinion is clear.
You overestimate yourself.


Lol prove it. I don't know this guy, but usually someone needing to tell someone else their worth reflects on the messenger. Of course, this wouldn't apply to you. You never let your emotions, insecurity and ego cloud your judgment of course.

I'm only responding to this because it reflects psychic noise from a friend of mine. Question to my friend. Why is it so pertinent that you be in charge of my perceptions? Don't you have some work on yourself to do that might be more constructive. Not only for the sake of our friendship, but for yourself as well? You may not agree with my perception of myself, but that's not your responsibility. My love and care and devotion is clear. So I'm clearly not abandoning you.

Your attitude is all ego. You sometimes need to control other people's perceptions to avoid the discomfort of having an epiphany and evolving. Once you get over that shit everything will fall into place and not only will you discredit your fear of abandonment in this case, but greater and more lasting peace of mind will follow.

It would not be a loving act to rescue you from growth, regardless if you agree with anything else. So I will allow your will to grow stronger as your primal sense of survival instinct gets louder each day I don't call first until you heal yourself. Even if you're right you're wrong, so don't waste energy pushing against me. You'll just find yourself pushing against your own shit until your only relief will only come from you.

My attitude on this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=RDPgDFGubdxXk¶ms=OAE%253D&v=XPL_qGqSJxA&mode=NORMAL

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=RDMMDsh0TfIKhoE¶ms=OAE%253D&v=qeMFqkcPYcg&mode=NORMAL


Edited by samowens84 (11/08/18 12:25 AM)

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#117384 - 11/08/18 02:37 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: XiaoGui17]
TheChess Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
my opinion is clear.
You overestimate yourself.


For sure.

About you? Tell us how many clandestines have you helped to cross your custom (for free of course), tell us how many have lived in your house, tell us how many had a dinner with you and your family, tell us how many are employed by you..


hundred? ten? one? ...no one? mmh.

So, maybe you don't like my opinion, but reflects what i think , and what i do about the topic "multiculturalism".

Here in the big fat world wide web all are so friendly, but when you look at the street, in IRL, they simply do nothing.

I disdain you and all the lions of the keyboard.



Edited by TheChess (11/08/18 03:04 PM)
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#117385 - 11/09/18 11:57 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1424
Loc: Austin, TX
Look, I can see where you're from on your profile, so I'll grant that English is obviously not your first language. I just thought you ought to know whatever you're trying to say isn't coming out coherent in English. You can have someone whose English is better help you translate, or you can lash out at the messenger who tells you that your words are scrambled and incomprehensible.

The inability to accept constructive criticism really tells me all I need to know about you.
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#117387 - 11/09/18 03:36 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: XiaoGui17]
TheChess Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Switzerland
ugh, thanks!
That's true, isn't my first language.

i try to resume what i have written:

why i don't trust in multiculturalism:

when you travel around the world you discover different cultures/people/traditions:Chile is differnt than France, and France is different than Lybia, libya than vietnam etc etc..
In the multiculturalism system you destroy all that differencies, with a lose of cultural identity.
I like Egypth because is Egypth, States as States, and Japan as Japan.

So,
I live in a country with the 30% of foreigns(2.7 mio over 8 mio tot pop.), i'm part of a cultural minority (300k people) and i have seen all the traditions of my land, the local language and the history of my people got nearly destroyed. all that in the name of multiculturalism.
Now i'm a foreign in my country.

as told before, in the western countries the actual "freedom" was a long process that taked a lot of time. why i have to excange the freedom of speech for the sharia'h in the middle of europe?
if i don't do that im a racsist/nazist/fascist/badguy/heartless.
simply, if someone like sharia'h can move to Saudi Arabia, right?

If someone move from the 'country X' to the US, and then every ten seconds says something like that*:
" All the USA are sh*t because in my original land we do that thing better and the States cause only war and mess around the world and are stupid idiots with imperial units and not the metric system. F*ck USA and 'Country X' Łber alles! "

the multiculturalist answer is:
"oh, thanks for your feedback. we are very wrong and we understand you."

im my opinion the right answer is:
"why are you already here?"

another point and then i have finished. i have seen, read and listen a lot of people that says that multiculturalism is good, illegal immigrants are good people that need help, the laws are wrong, kill animals is stupid, save the wales etc..

but in the reality, they don't do nothing. just speaking, but no facts. they don't give as a gift one cent to the poor men at the corner of the street, they don't help illegals immigrants to become regulars. they don't fight against a wrong system, no demostrations in the streets, nothing.

So, i don't like multiculturality, and every day i fight against that concept.

My other topic about the celtic site is a research that i have done, in the attempt to save and rescue places,traditions, history and folklore. just an exeample.


* is an exeample and i hope that my poor english knowledge is enough to pass the concept



Edited by TheChess (11/09/18 03:40 PM)
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#118570 - 02/12/19 10:19 AM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: Zeno]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Zeno
Nature loves diversity


Nature loves nothing. It tolerates diversity to a degree and than it destroys it. It tolerates uniformity more than diversity, permits it to last longer, but in the end it destroys uniformity as well.

 Quote:
it means a system can change, move and evolve through the conflict of opposing ideas


Diversity cannot afford a free market of ideas without collapsing. It perpetuates it self via the monopoly of pro-diversity ideas.

 Quote:
If family members of the same genetic type mate, it produces sick, weak and disabled offspring


You don't need a diverse mate in order to produce a healthy child. If you enforce eugenics on a targeted population, that population will have lower frequency of sick, weak and disabled.

 Quote:
which is why it is desirable of having two genetically diverse parents producing young.


Traditionally mixed areas of the globe like the Middle East tend to be dysgenic. Mixed offspring tend to be low IQ, low-trust, semi-feral, more dependent on quantity than quality.



Edited by Bacchus (02/12/19 10:23 AM)

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#118576 - 02/12/19 12:18 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: TheChess]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: TheChess
More in general, "culture", for ex. the language, traditions.. just an acceptable standard of living and understand why a place is that place, or you wish a paris look like beirut?


Clearly because cultures can share space but not the same standard of living.

 Quote:
for you is acceptable to rape people, sell girls (or kids) for mandatory marriages? i'm not that kind of ignorant. about you?


I question what you believe you're ignorant about. Take the U.S. for example. In spite of the many, many, many laws we have on the books which state emphatically we are a culture that will not tolerate such things; we have them en masse. Does this mean that our culture considers these actions an acceptable standard of living? If that were the case in your mind, how does that reconcile with our culture punishing such behaviors? Incareration and the Death Penalty?

Do you honestly believe the foreign culture explicitly imports such things? We have plenty of American citizens born and raised here, that breed it just as much as the foreign that import it. This is also the case abroad.

A more appropriate example would be the traditons of a culture in stark contrast to foreign culture but in a shared space. In example...


Americans don't (generally) piss/shit in buckets and pour them out their windows onto the city streets, every single day as a matter of tradition. We have indoor plubming, public facilities and plenty of them in Urban areas. Even country folk without plumbing have enough sense to build outhouses.

We do however have several states with huge homeless encampments where the city streets are their toilets. Citizen or No. Culture can also be corrupted by a failure to enforce tradition. Progressive Liberal world views of entitlement and rebellion for its sake alone.


What sort of benign set of Ethics is specifically American?
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#118577 - 02/12/19 03:17 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
MindFck Offline
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Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 31
Multiculturalism will be a main reason for the coming collapse and ensuing chaos of the west. People have been brainwashed into glorifying "diversity". Diversity and immigration are a good thing to a certain degree if strategically managed. People behave as if we have suddenly evolved past tribalism. It's ridiculous. Weaponized language to shame people pointing out these problems is employed to silence them.

The people who are blindly ignoring issues with long term careless immigration and border strategies are unwittingly assisting in their own system's demise. Trump derangement syndrome is a deadly mental illness. Everyone loses if the complex system that is the first world collapses. Ignorant virtue signaling will be our downfall.
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#118580 - 02/12/19 04:41 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: MindFck]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Sure, but this has been going on for decades and decades. It's become the conventional wisdom that any form of preservation of the nation's nuances or nationalism is White Supremacy. Though, they only seem to complain about the white man's superiority complex, rarely do they ever address its accomplishments. It's all dismissive of Nazism, as if that's the worst thing a person can be.

Diversity to some extent is useful, too much and you're replaced with a lesser more grotesque thing. Then everyone is dumping buckets of shit on the streets to the point where, you need a new nation.

But hey, this is what people really want apparently. Look over there at California. There's rarely any government intervention to wide spread disease and feces on the streets aside a public health warning.

Meanwhile here in Virginia, people are fretting over Black Face and White Hoods. Never mind the wholesale termination of the white baby. heh
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#118992 - 03/30/19 08:41 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
active member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 654
People tend to always grumble about everything. And if everything was perfect, they would grumble about finding nothing to grumble about. Not that everything is perfect, but populism gains reason through this. Phantoms appear, to create an imagery of decay, which is supposedly the proof of their sayings. They present us as parasites that drain the breasts of the Motherland from the last milk drop that she's left. The government rarely intervenes, so there should be more government intervention. And such. And even if there was enough , of what they ask for, it wouldn't be enough , until it met their goals.
Just lies. No, just misinterpretation. Then lies again. Their own pitfalls. Their own talking. Their own debates.
A Communist or an Anarchist could make such comments just because you give him the right with what you're saying. If everything is wrong and diversity is bad, then our society is bad and the nation is bad. Of which part is you, and you're bad too. Do you think having the right of complaining about it makes you not part of the Nation, part of the system and part of the problem? If you want to make a change, you must first change yourself.
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#119017 - 04/02/19 04:44 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: fiendish]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Rights are privileges allotted by the State. That there's these 'inalienable Rights' only applies while standing on U.S. soil. Try to import them to the Middle East, or another culture diametrically opposed to ours and it should be self-evident.

People really feel entitled to believe what they say is true, right and should be pushed up on everyone else to make for a 'civilized society'. As if that's what we are. Sure, there's less chaos with a government and order in place but crime rates show that people will live as they want. And that's just the percentage getting caught.

What does self-change really mean, when society around you becomes foreign to what you know? There's a reason the guys in Cville were saying "Jews will not replace us!" not because of Supremacy ideologies, but evident truths about influence and allegiance to them.

Sure, change is happening. It just may not be the change you imagine for yourself.
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#119027 - 04/04/19 03:37 PM Re: The Pitfalls of Multiculturalism [Re: SIN3]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 654
People will live as they want, but how? What is that that they want? They want a model, a way of guidance. Somehow I feel they don't want to make the change, they just want to be a part of it.
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