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#115901 - 03/02/18 10:40 AM (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018
SIN3 Offline
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H.R. 5087 - 115th Congress (2017-2018)

"The ban would specifically prohibit the sale, transfer, production, and importation of the following:

Semi-automatic rifles and handguns with a military-style feature that can accept a detachable magazine
Semi-automatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds
Semi-automatic shotguns with a military-style features
Any ammunition feeding device that can hold more than 10 rounds
205 specifically-named and listed firearms"


House Democrats have been talking about this for years, all it takes is a well organized effort to exploit a school shooting to git'r done!


USA! USA! USA!


Pretty sure people will still attain these restricted guns & accessories in spite of this, the black market will see a boom, and business as usual.

What say you? Is it the gun-pocalypse?
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#115903 - 03/02/18 11:11 AM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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A lot of shit is going to happen if things go this rout.

I figure, there could be a rise in violence over some period of time, that makes our current troubles with school shootings look like well, nothing at all. Though, people are far more obedient and timid than they often present themselves. Perhaps this move is being made because there is actually less violence in a lot of ways than in the past. Shit could take, people lose their guns, and violence goes down even more. Maybe so.

Doubtful.

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#115906 - 03/02/18 01:41 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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I’m pro-ban. Never owned a gun in my life. Never wanted nor needed one. I stopped playing Army/G.I. Joe when I was 10 years old.

I would love to see guns being banned. Bring it.
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#115909 - 03/02/18 02:16 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Dark Light 444]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Posts: 950
See, there it is. How you equal real guns to toy dolls. They're not the same thing.

What do you really think banning guns would do?

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#115911 - 03/02/18 02:29 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Dark Light 444]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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This is like the border wall for liberals.

Use a 9mm pistol with multiple 10 shot clips then. If you want to kill 10 per clip, hollow points bought from one of the 40 states that permit them are available. That is the bypass equivalent of a tunnel under a wall.

It is a plastic solution fucktarded people latch on to when spectacle and black/white programming makes one believe they should take a pro/con opinion to begin with.

Anyway, there are tons of jam prone soviet era AK's and American made AR's to be found. cartels issue them to their kids when they become teenagers.

20 miles south of one of America's safest cities American guns really make their presence known.

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

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#115912 - 03/02/18 03:33 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Banning guns would shut up all the pieholes who think they have rights. You don’t. If you own any kind of firearm now, you should consider yourself lucky. The government allows you to have them. They aren’t your right. And soon, you won’t have any.

You’re kidding yourself if you think there is any real freedom in owning firearms. You’ll never have more arsenal than the government. They are bigger and more powerful than you and your “rights”.

Too bad gun owners put all their stock into guns and the rights thereof. It’s all been a game all along, and soon, your precious “freedom” that you cling to so righteously will be ripped away from you.

Sure. You’ll be able to get your guns on the black market, just like you can drugs. But the consequences of doing so will be far greater.

So, I welcone the “ban”. At least it will rip away this false sense of righteousness and freedom that gun owners point and shout about.
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#115915 - 03/02/18 04:18 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Dark Light 444]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Technically, firearms are a commodity regulated by the state/federal branch. Any citizen's ability to carry arms of any kind is reliant on the strength of their conviction. Armaments are not restricted to firearms. Any regulation against possessing them can be challenged. This is why in spite of regs in place, people still own them.

All the Bill of Rights actually did, was document that government powers could be limited if the mass populace rose up against it bearing arms.

"Well regulated militia... etc." continues to be hotly debated. However, if you have no ability or willingness to defend your person from a government capture; then it's really moot.

That the government is armed with more fire power doesn't really matter if you can't get the armed services to kill its own people. Those geriatric hotheads in suits are outnumbered. But hey, do continue pontificating with your slave morality.
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#115916 - 03/02/18 04:31 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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I live in a country where hardly anyone is allowed to carry a gun. A gun ban would certainly limit mass shootings. Sure, there are other more old-fashioned ways to kill but using a gun makes it possible to easily target a larger group of people while using a knife requires you to come face to face with a victim so usually it's just one person at a time.

Of course, one can always come up with an argument that much more people die in car accidents than shootings than why not prohibit cars? Moreover, using public transport or cycling to work would be more environmentally friendly so ecologists and all species of nature lovers would approve of such a regulation.


Edited by Czereda (03/02/18 04:32 PM)
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#117335 - 10/30/18 03:04 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Czereda]
Rob Taylor Offline
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They banned pistols in about oooh.....1995 in the UK? The only thing it really accomplished, was the fall of target shooting clubs.
Never been allowed to own fully auto over here. Shotguns aren't really restricted here.
The drugs gangs and the like very rarely use shotguns, they have machine pistols and subs and semi auto pistols.
In my opinion, these bans don't effect people who don't follow rules. Obviously.
And being told that you are allowed to have something, aslong as you jump through a few hoops first, isn't freedom.


Edited by Rob Taylor (10/30/18 03:04 PM)

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#117337 - 10/30/18 03:48 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
TheChess Offline
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Registered: 10/29/18
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 Originally Posted By: Rob Taylor
They banned pistols in about oooh.....1995 in the UK? The only thing it really accomplished, was the fall of target shooting clubs.
Never been allowed to own fully auto over here. Shotguns aren't really restricted here.
The drugs gangs and the like very rarely use shotguns, they have machine pistols and subs and semi auto pistols.
In my opinion, these bans don't effect people who don't follow rules. Obviously.
And being told that you are allowed to have something, aslong as you jump through a few hoops first, isn't freedom.


same opinion.

A ban is just good for make an illegal/underground market.
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#117338 - 10/30/18 03:54 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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The bans are not only about crime prevention. This is a means to justify taking away access from the common public, is how I see it. Without a means to defend one's self, official intervention seems more of a necessity. Social relevance and self-importance have to have real-world measures. Restricting the consuming masses makes them vulnerable, and thus, manageable.
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#117339 - 10/30/18 03:59 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Rob Taylor Offline
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The same goes with the threat of terrorism. Not sure what the news is like where you are, but the BBC news is full of panic and the world coming to an end, then over holiday periods when all the politicians are on holiday's, the news is full of things like talking cats and how a council bin service is falling apart.

The threats need to be made to look real, fear brings in money and restrictions. Surveillance is a big one here. A terrorist incident occurs, emergency legislation is put in place, and it stays for years. People are brainwashed to think it's required.

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#117340 - 10/30/18 05:23 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
TheChess Offline
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1984 and V for Revenge explain pretty well that concept.

Here the government give you an assault rifle for your home (sig 550), for protect you, your family and your house. now it's a kinda of tradition.. but the EU make big pressions for forbidden that.
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#117341 - 10/30/18 06:02 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: TheChess]
Rob Taylor Offline
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Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
That's interesting. I have heard of this, though I've never been to Switzerland. So is it the case that you do national service, then keep your weapon when you leave, with the idea being if the country needs to prepare for war, the majority are already trained and armed and pretty much ready to go?
It's a very efficient way to go about things.

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#117342 - 10/30/18 07:51 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
TheChess Offline
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Registered: 10/29/18
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Loc: Switzerland
yes: imagine that you're a foreign country that want to invade our country: you have to fight in every house with someone that's a soldier (here is mandatory) with an automatic * weapon.
that's the easy way, but a lot of street/bridges/tunnels are charged with explosive. So no more streets. i know my land, the woods and the mountains, but a foreign not.

ugh, of course all the parents have already done the army, so isnt uncommon to see 20 or more rifles in a house.

for the same reason you don't go in a house for steal.

* when you finish the normal service the weapon is modified from full auto to semi-automatic only. that's in theory. but trust me, semiauto is good enough.


Edited by TheChess (10/30/18 07:56 PM)
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#117343 - 10/30/18 10:50 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: TheChess]
aeon6 Offline
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Despite wondrous technology humans haven't changed much since the Paleozoic era. The persistent need for weaponry because no one trusts the other becomes self-defeating. It culminates in the mushroom cloud.
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#117344 - 10/31/18 12:18 AM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: aeon6]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
Despite wondrous technology humans haven't changed much since the Paleozoic era. The persistent need for weaponry because no one trusts the other becomes self-defeating. It culminates in the mushroom cloud.


Meh, I don't think it is a question of trust.  It's lions and paid athletes.  If you have a #strong hashtag or event to point to you have your  argument made with public spectacle. 

From here on out every person with a final solution to go tag a bunch of Jewish (or other interchangable vitriolic hate) will use a variant of the US Military issued M-4. Like the war on drugs only with melee attacks.

Apart from them, the minority, 3 types of people own assault rifles.

People trained on them - Usually soldiers that really liked their M-4/M-16. An AR-15 is only its civilian equivalent.

Gun enthusiasts. (See above) Would be hard to use it in a self defense situation as most keep them locked in a case or safe and prefer their pistol in close quarter combat.

Gangsters and Aspiring Gangsters - The MS13 member in Tijuana, the thug on Crenshaw Blvd, and the dumbshit white boy in North Hollywood on Radford by the In N' Out Burger. In that order.  He didn't even need to be out of high school to get his.
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#117349 - 11/01/18 12:06 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
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You forgot terrorist cells. ATF raided my neighborhood a couple of years back. A local gun shop was modifying weapons and selling them out of their home to members of Al-Qaeda (allegedly). I don't think the gun sellers really give a goddamn who the buyers are. When there's money to be made, you become a God of War.


A lot of pieces of legislation introduced are flat tires from the start. It was referred to Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations in March 2018; no movement since.

The definitions of 'Assault Rifle' are being challenged, because the housing looks scary, doesn't make the thing a machine gun. It has no more fire power than other semi-automatics, even with post-purchase mods like bump stocks.

With every incident in the news, there's always an attempt at a 2A revision and gun grab. No amount of gun restrictions are going to prevent crimes involving guns, mass shootings, or a targeted demographic by people with a bone to pick with them.

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#117352 - 11/01/18 01:01 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: SIN3]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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I think government and law enforcement know that it won't stop these things. The real argument is that it will cut down some of the damage. People wanna fight, let them fight with pillows. They pose less of a threat to each other and the establishment. *Not exactly my opinion, just the general idea behind these efforts.

The real concern and debate lies in the compromise and consequences of taking guns away. How much does one side get to have, and how often?

Some points to consider:

1.) The right to bear arms is about giving the people a fighting chance against tyranny. Not sports, not just for peaceful matters. Our gun rights are there to prevent a tyrannical government or invading party (foreign or native) from taking over. The United States was founded on bloodshed. This is and always will be a consequence of keeping the peace.

2.) The military and law enforcement already have access to more weapons resource than the people. Despite this, there are still far more regular citizens with guns and outnumber all government and law enforcement combined. The government already has access to weapons resources that we normal people would might not even be able to imagine. The argument for gun rights remains intact as long as our constitution does. There are people trying to circumvent this with work around as we've seen with automatic weapons. So far, its a failing effort. Regardless if you're for or against gun rights, our constitution remains intact.

3.) Guns are really on the bottom of the list when it comes to weapons violence or death in general. For example, heart disease kills more than cancer. More related, guns are also down on the list in terms of weapons use. Most weapons are melee, or even vehicle related, and most murder is in the heat of the moment, bordering accidental. Something like 5% of all murder is pre-meditated. The media reports guns because it keeps people's attention, as it is a popular issue.

4.) Money talks: This applies to almost anything, like the last part above concerning media. Gun manufacturing is a large business, and business makes the rules. Business gets laws passed.


Edited by Creatura Noptii (11/01/18 01:10 PM)

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#117357 - 11/01/18 03:09 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: SIN3]
Rob Taylor Offline
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It doesn't really matter wahat the casing looks like. Like I explained to my daughter, I don't really care if I get killed by a 15 Megaton thermonuclear weapon, or a Kg of TNT. Either way, I'm dead. Even if my Gas oven explodes whilst I am getting something out of it.
Does it matter if it's an AR15 or a .22 cadet rifle round that goes through my head?
Does it mattter if it's a zombie knife (new hot subject in the UK) that pierces my pleural cavity or a butter knife?
It's rules for the sake of rules. Humans are very artistic and can improvise spectacularly when we need to devise a way of killing or maiming.

If fully automatic military grade weapons were only avalable to sensible people, there wouldn't be any problems.

But then, what is the true definition of sensible? And who would define it?

Best be safe and train yourself in the use of primitive weapons I guess.

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#117358 - 11/02/18 12:45 AM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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"Kangaroo be stoned he's guilty as the government."

I'm wondering how many of the deserialized head hunter weapons are still floating around.

Otherwise, all part of the stages of societal acceptance.

At the outset you can see the sides and then before you know it a family member is expressing why Opinion B, Ban assault rifles is their opinion too. "They are not needed" is what they might say.

And, you know, for the most part this is true.  But we are all one coronal mass ejection away from martial law.  So those high powered arms could still come in useful.

Assuage the emotions in a way that isn't banning soft story structures after the earthquake.

The next step may be a biometric ID requirement, plus the CCW like background check instead of an outright ban.

People will go all New World Order about it but they can keep their arsenal for the coming apocalypse.
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#117360 - 11/02/18 06:25 AM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: CanisMachina42]
TheChess Offline
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the pdf book series "pratical scrap metal firearms" explain well how make smg at home..
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#117361 - 11/02/18 10:54 AM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: TheChess]
Rob Taylor Offline
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Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
Maybe that's the way forward then. I've seen some very good examples of sten copies that were seized from the ira in the 80s.
There certainly are some skilled people around. Saw a few mortars made from hgv oil filters too.

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#117362 - 11/02/18 11:09 AM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
aeon6 Offline
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The elephant in the room:

Yet while the separation of what we notice from what we ignore is far from strictly natural, nor is it entirely personal. Noticing and ignoring are not just personal acts, since they are always performed by members of particular social communities with particular social conventions of attention and communication. Nuclear war can happen two ways: by cool calculation or by runaway escalation. Unintended war through the escalation of a crisis is the more likely scenario, but with such ultimate madness anything can be figured with.

In the event of nuclear conflict the us maintains a policy of M.A.D.: mutually assured destruction.

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#117363 - 11/02/18 12:07 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: aeon6]
Rob Taylor Offline
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Loc: England, Surrey
I've recently finished a book called "Command and Control" by Eric Schlosser. It's overall focus is on a specific accident in a Titan silo, though a lot of the book is still about how the nuclear deterrent grew, and how different minds worked, depending who was heading up the Army, Airforce, Navy or overall government at the time.
What is interesting to read (and I don't for one second think anyone reading this post wouldn't know or have suspected anyway), is how big a nuclear accident has to be before it is deemed a problem. This could be the deaths of thousands of civilians etc. Also, some of the original thoughts and policies were absolutely horrific. Like the full intention of completely nuking the Soviet Union shortly after the second world war, just to make sure they couldn't fire first.
Governments are very dangerous. If they want to do something, they'll do it. The sad thing is, normal members of the public allow themselves to be convinced that these things are a good idea! It's very easy to pursuade the masses to agree with something that is absolutely horrendous.


Edited by Rob Taylor (11/02/18 12:08 PM)

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#117364 - 11/02/18 01:56 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
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That's a book I'll seek out.
How sexy would it be stumbling down your street blind (from flash), deaf (from boom), with flesh fallng off of bones (radiation)? Yet that is what the powers that be threaten even its own population with via imminent retaliation from whomever it (preemptively) attacks. We all know what the big IT is. Both Stephen Hawking and the late cosmologist Carl Sagan, ironically before their deaths, forecasted a thousand years or less for humans here.

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#117365 - 11/02/18 02:34 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: aeon6]
TheChess Offline
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Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 46
Loc: Switzerland
i had a talk with my sergent some years ago about the nuclear and chemical training that we had done.. conclusion: doesen't matter how well equipped you are, in reality during a biochemical/nuclear attack* you're probabily death. combopen, gazepan or other chemical medicines are.. paliatives.

* for a chem attack, when you'realize that u're under attack is too late
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#117366 - 11/02/18 06:53 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: TheChess]
Rob Taylor Offline
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Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
Yup. Nbc kit, fullers earth, puffer bottles, naps tablets, never going to work. I never had to take naps fortunately. And yes, when you know it's a real attack, you're fucked. The training is just there to make you feel crap and give you a bit of false comfort, so you do your job till the end.
Combo pens are the best! If I remember right, and it's been a while, so you may need to correct me: if you suspect you have been exposed to nerve agents, remove safety cap and place pad on inner thigh. Press button. If symptoms persist after 5 minutes, administer another shot.
Also, somewhere on the label, or just in training, can't remember, this stuff (atropine and some other stuff?) does you no good whatsoever if it's a false alarm.
But whatever. Mod and any other countries military, can get away with anything. So much secretism. Unsettling

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#117367 - 11/02/18 08:41 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: Rob Taylor]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 279
Loc: København, Denmark
Yes unsettling, and the impunity with which they inflict it will be part of the nuke holocaust holocene. Since childhood I've been pessimistic about this, while admiring the wonders of human achievement. A definite sense of futility comes with realizing the truth about nukes, fight it as if the castle you build will last for the last 1000 years.
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#117370 - 11/03/18 02:18 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: aeon6]
TheChess Offline
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Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 46
Loc: Switzerland
combopen have a sting (5 cm ~ 2") that you need to push in your knee.. they told us that give you 30 min extra.

In real life one thing that can " " work " "
is to piss on some pants/clothes/paper and use it as filter for your face. or go faster as you can in the water (swimpool, lake, sea)
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#117374 - 11/04/18 04:25 PM Re: (USA)H.R. 5087 - Assault Weapons Ban 2018 [Re: TheChess]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 279
Loc: København, Denmark
That would entail an egesta complexion.
Don't you want your best face forward while attempting to outdo the aftermath?

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