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#115955 - 03/06/18 10:18 AM Virtue Signaling
SIN3 Offline
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Urban Dictionary: Virtue Signaling
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#115957 - 03/06/18 01:16 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Beastiality is gross. Therefore, if a movie features that, I wonít go see it. For one to sit and complain about it when knowing it is featured is of course useless. I also question those, like SIN, who question stupid people. People in general are idiots. Donít we already know that around here? Whatís to discuss except to complain about idiots?

As for your second video, the stoner that loves to cuss while filming his apartment, he makes some valid points about Trump and the people who complain about him. Also makes some valid points about municipalities verses handling thIngs on an individual/private level.
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#115959 - 03/06/18 04:40 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Dark Light 444]
SIN3 Offline
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Well first, the film isn't actually about having sex with animals. The film 'The Shape of Water' isn't about that, however I was seeing a trend of it being framed that way. JK included.

Maybe you should watch some? May change your triggered reaction.

Like a little kid "ewww that's gross!"

Second, there's nothing in this video that is questioning stupid people. Speaking of which, do you intend to discuss the topic?

Third, the same fellow is questioning what qualifies as Virtue Signaling, which is what this topic is about as indicated by the topic title.

I question your comprehension skills. Does that make you stupid?
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#115961 - 03/06/18 05:32 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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 Quote:
the film isn't actually about having sex with animals.


Well, no shit. Guillermo del Toro's movies have always been symbolic. I watched a few but only Pan's Labyrinth impressed me. It was definitely his best film. Since I'm not really his fan, I haven't watched "The Shape of Water." I only saw a trailer at the cinema, where I went to watch some other movie. It seemed to be boring.

I occasionally see people condemning the movies they haven't even seen because the theme of the movie either hurts their sense of aesthetic or their moral principles. Usually, the motivation is a religion but not always. Sometimes, the movie makers' aim is indeed to shock and cause controversy. But most of the time, it's the ignorant people reading into the movie what is not there.
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#115962 - 03/06/18 06:17 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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I think you add a lot of hot air to topics that could easily be discussed.

I'm comprehending the discussion fine, I just don't want to get bogged down in another one that goes nowhere.

There's a movie that uses symbolism that many people are construing to be an ode to bestiality, or some such shit, no? And their "outrage" over their perceptions are basically sign posts to virtue signaling, no?

As far as "Stoned and panning my apartment" Man goes, he's basically calling attention to the same sort off sign posts that he sees in people's "outrage" over Trump, no?

I only responded to things I wanted to. Comprehension is just fine.

Unless, of course, as is your way to gleefully (erroneously) point out, I'm totally missing THE point that is so flipping obvious to anyone with half a brain....
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#115966 - 03/07/18 08:53 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
But most of the time, it's the ignorant people reading into the movie what is not there.


Pretty much. In JK's case, that he referred to it as 'gross' and that I spoke on seeing a similar trend as a virtue signal is in protest.

Instead, he points to the Oscar show presentation as a platform for everything from faux-Feminism to Sex Assault (The whole "Times Up" thing). As a better example of it.

What do you think? Is he correct? [That people just have preferences and would dismiss del Toro's art as having sex with animals; and it doesn't qualify as an example of Virtue Signaling.]
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#115967 - 03/07/18 10:09 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Could be. Personally, I don't pay attention to Oscars. It doesn't matter to me what awards, if any, the movie received. I also don't read reviews. I just check the repertoire of Warsaw cinemas, read a synopsis, watch a trailer and if I think "Oh this movie could be really cool" I go to watch it. I'm an old-fashioned person who prefers to watch her favourite films on a big screen. Usually the Oscar movies are not the ones that interest me anyway.

That's me. I don't know about other people. Many could have the same attitude. But there are some who get shocked or offended easily and could purposefully boycott a movie, like it was the case with "The Golden Compass" for example. It's grossly anti-Christian but only if you read in between the lines.


Edited by Czereda (03/07/18 10:14 AM)
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#115969 - 03/07/18 10:49 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Having watched stoned dudeís video again, it seems that when I responded above, Iíd actually been redirected to a different video than the one you posted in OP for some reason.
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#115970 - 03/07/18 11:02 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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This may help and there's more to it than a reaction to a consumer product.
 Quote:
Virtue signaling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favor for certain political ideas, cultural happenings, or even the weather.



In fact, you can find it riddled throughout these topics across the forum. The sanctimonious holier than thou, my world view is better than your world view shtick.

Case in point, why do people harp on my post count? That's fucking weird y'all.
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#115971 - 03/07/18 11:39 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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I don't know what kind of melodrama is going on between you and Ms Chloe. Personally, I don't care about your post count and I'm not sure why she cares.

However, your recent anger outbursts and multiple ad hominems have been peculiar. You also wrote that this place is worse than Facebook and that people or rather "swines" here are not able to debate you.

There are some sanctimonious idiots here for sure but the one assuming eviller than thou (or should I say special snowflake?) attitude is you.
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#115973 - 03/07/18 02:18 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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What are you going on about? Do you ever tire of telling people they are angry?

How one should debate or misconstruing what you read? Just another topic where it requires stick figures and cue cards I suppose. Speaking of Facebook posting, what does this have to do with the topic? Oh Wait...
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#115976 - 03/07/18 06:55 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
ShadowLover Offline
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A lot of religious people were up in arms when the "coming soon ads" were running for the TV series "Lucifer", and how innocent did it turn out to be - certainly nothing which would bring on the rapture. I watched the first series and found it delightfully entertaining, but not engrossing enough to be bothered with the second.

I haven't read "50 Shades Of Grey" myself, but I did read part of a online interview where people got to converse with the author and the shit she had to listen to... One young woman claimed she was fired because of the book. Because she took her boss' smiles the wrong way and planted a kiss on him. Book's fault! Other people found it offensive to women.

I just figure if you don't like what you are reading, close the book. I put warnings in the front of some of my books, so if you don't like the content, then don't open it! Don't open it and then blame me if you feel offended. Same with movies... Just turn it off or walk out of the theatre.

They're works of fiction and somebody's creation. I don't think it does us any good to stifle people's creative channel. Hell, I don't like every piece of art. Doesn't mean I would dictate who is allowed to like it. Like I would never hang a piece of artwork created with sanitary napkins in my house. But if the Manchester art Gallery doesn't want to rehang Waterhouse's "Hilas And The Nymphs", I'll gladly give it a loving home.

I will admit to being annoyed by the amount of propaganda in TV and movies. Not that it is there - more that I don't like it being systematically shoved down the necks of the masses. But I guess that has always gone on... I should let that go more.
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#115977 - 03/07/18 07:19 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: ShadowLover]
Czereda Offline
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You know... the thing is that the majority of those offended by or protesting against some movie, book, theater performance or work of art have never seen it. It's the moral outrage bandwagon started by a few most vocal activists with the rest of the sheep jumping on. That they don't have to watch or read something is not the point. What they worry about is that someone dares to meddle with the cultural status quo, try to change the moral standards of the society they live in to something totally alien to them.

Some time ago, where I live there were some protests against the art exhibition in one of the museums. Those Catholic activists were spending there a couple of days literally occupying the museum. Thus they were willingly exposing themselves to something they found offensive. Why? They explained to the journalists interviewing them that they live in a Catholic country and they don't want it to become atheistic. That they were afraid nobody would respect the Christian values.


Edited by Czereda (03/07/18 07:21 PM)
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#115981 - 03/08/18 05:37 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Czereda]
Zeno Offline
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Re: Beastiality. Such acts are an abuse of animals, I don't need to see such content to know that such abuse creates suffering and distress in an animal. My opposition to such acts and content is not about any morality but an empathy for a living thing.

Beastiality is illegal in the UK, as is the possession of content showing beastiality. Those caught with content showing beastiality tend to be reported in the media as also in possession of child porn. Getting caught with beastiality content will end in jail and also exposure in the media in the UK.

Re: moral standards. I am of the position that when one is a visitor to a host or a community that respect is given to the host and that community of their cultural traditions and beliefs. If I go to a Muslim nation, I will not drink alcohol or make touching-contact with females. If however, a Muslim comes to the UK, I expect them to accept that I drink alcohol and women can walk aground half naked, and if the Muslims dislike this, they should go back to their own culture.
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#115985 - 03/08/18 08:04 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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I realize that, not being a user of social media, I'm not hanging with the cool people. But where is there a "trend" of attributing bestiality to THE SHAPE OF WATER? Throw a bone here to an uncool old lady who watched your video, please.

As for "virtue signaling", I don't see how anything virtue-related is conveyed by people trying to force a connection between some creative work and a very loaded topic. (What I am thinking after watching both videos is more like attention whoring.) Of course some creative works play intentionally with the "offensive", but I don't think that is the case here.

I haven't seen the film (I have vision problems which prevent me from seeing films at a cinema), but am looking forward to it. From what I understand about it, it draws on a mythological concept that is very common worldwide, where gods in animal form, demi gods, or humanoid beings, have an intimate relationship with humans. And the humanoid isn't always a male, either. There are all those stories from the North Atlantic and Baltic about marine animals that can take human female form, marry a local fisherman, and at some point revert, returning to the sea.

I have to admit I thought of Tani Jantsang when I first heard about this film! Haven't read them in decades, but I am sure I remember Cthulhu Mythos short stories that play with this idea.

Oh, and the dude who says he pees in his fridge is so gross, I deem him virtue incapable.
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#115986 - 03/08/18 09:33 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Kori Houghton]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Is it anti-satanic to be virtuous? SIN, what is your position on having virtues and espousing them socially?

Thereís a lot of assumptions being made that this Ďvirtue signalingí is really a big thing. You canít pretend to know if a person espousing virtues walks the walk or not. Itís just more psycho babble fluff to call people out this way, IMO.
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#115989 - 03/08/18 10:15 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Dark Light 444]
SIN3 Offline
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Not necessarily, I think all peoples regardless of the methods by which they live their lives; have hard limits. See: Virtue

Whether that be an honor code, or set of morals. They do tend to change though, so what does a person really stand for? That's what happens when you break taboo. I think it's un-Satanic to refuse to test your own Virtues. I can think of a dozen imaginary lines in the sand I dare not cross in my youth but once I did, then your virtues tend to change. Especially with experience, not just knowledge attainment.

Consider also the popularity of genres of porn that do depict sex with animals, Hentai especially. Something about tentacles...


I actually wasn't calling out JK in my video, he was just among the mass speaking on in it that way "Oooo gross, sex with beasts!" It's fiction but theoretically speaking, if it weren't, it seems more like a Numinous experience to me. If she had found a connection and release from her mortal coil with the creature. Ecstasy was apparent, from the clips I watched.

As for the trend. It was on every platform (Facebook, Twitter, Google+, Gab, etc) as well as most conservative news stations (Fox, Conservative news, etc). Picked up from there, memes etc. So then, people that haven't seen the film were getting that impression by the imprint of propaganda about it. Even if they were liberal progressive. It's an oddity for sure.

Hence the topic. Which isn't necessarily about the film, but what the qualifiers are for Virtue Signaling.
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#115993 - 03/08/18 12:38 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
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Seems just like you might be inverting Kant's categorical imperative and labeling it "Satanic." I'm going to assume the likely scenario that you know exactly what you're doing, and I'm sure based on your previous posts that is exactly the point you're making. I'm already getting tired of talking about Sartre so that you bringing up a topic concerning him is tiresome and nauseating to me. I say "concerning" him because he was not above what you label "virtue signaling" to advocate for issues that he cared about.

However, more to your point from my brief research he deliberately isolated himself from the world until the world found him. By transgressing the imposed moral identity proscribed by the world he found his passion and purpose. This does not mean that he was obligated to extend that to the world, and so pragmatically was willing to advocate bad faith for others if he felt it best for his own moral code.

But you already knew that, didn't you? ;\)

What was it you said when we first spoke? Let them eat cake? Now that I think about it I think I found your bits of moral motives. Not that you'll admit it.

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#116004 - 03/09/18 10:09 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
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You are incorrect but that was certainly an interesting interpretation and projection upon my thought process.

First, Kant was just making observations of things people have been doing for thousands of years. It's part of human nature to both self-examine, test taboo, and then decide if their virtues are even worth clinging to.

Second, that most users here require a reading reference is among the reasons why the 'Satanic Suggested Reading List' should burn eternally and be discarded as useless ash.

Do you form thoughts of your own, or are they always by the point of influence of author's you've read?
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#116005 - 03/09/18 10:52 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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The fuck is wrong with being influenced by the writings or utterings of those you admire?

My thoughts are my own, as I am myself and have had the luxury of decades of self discovery. I do, however, love that feature of being able to take a trip on someone elseís subjective universe. Itís fucking fun. Youíre missing out if all you do is trip on yourself.
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#116006 - 03/09/18 12:48 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Dark Light 444]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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[[[][[Triggered]]]]]

Your interpretation of my statement sure is fascinating. Please, do go on about things I havenít actually stated.
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#116007 - 03/09/18 01:13 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Whatever SIN. Youíre just trolling at this point.
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#116011 - 03/09/18 03:33 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Dark Light 444]
SIN3 Offline
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Nice exit. This is the sort of thing that gets you mocked. You can't handle actual discourse. Your dismissive label doesn't support your case either.

Sure, I'll be a troll and you remain a pussy.
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#116012 - 03/09/18 04:04 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Hey you two, keep the fighting in the bedroom lol
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#116071 - 03/17/18 01:47 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Asmedious]
Vigilia_Matutina Offline
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I don't necessarily think anyone is entitled to a sort of preconceived notion about anything that has to follow some obscure rule or whatnot. Sorry SIN.

Edited by Vigilia_Matutina (03/17/18 01:47 AM)
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#116219 - 04/25/18 12:15 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Kori Houghton]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: KH
(What I am thinking after watching both videos is more like attention whoring.)


This is an example of signaling.

Would you consider attention whoring a negative attribute, if so why, if not why not.



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#116224 - 04/27/18 02:10 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
This is an example of signaling.


Watched the video, and must admit it made me laugh. Maybe this is my advanced age showing, but it seemed like it bordered on being "dated". Like in a few years it could be a nostalgic example of internet put-downs from the second decade of the 21st Century. I mean, I never encounter those descriptors anywhere but here, unless in a journalist's piece about various "alt" tribes.

While I think the phrase "virtue signaling" is nice and catchy, the communication it describes is as old as humans. A social lubricant to let strangers know something about each other's sensitive spots, personal or tribal. Maybe virtue signaling seems somehow affected in the era of digital communication where abrasion and rushes to judgement are popular.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you consider attention whoring a negative attribute, if so why, if not why not.


I wouldn't consider it negative at all. It's a form of self-promotion. If I'm not interested in what someone has to offer after taking a look, a read, or a listen, then it's no worse than neutral. Oh, and someone can't "virtue signal" at me (as an anonymous media consumer) until they've gotten my attention!
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#116225 - 04/30/18 10:57 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Kori Houghton]
SIN3 Offline
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It was an amusing example of bias, where it concerns the matter of virtue signaling. I figured you were intelligent enough to pick up what I was dropping there. Giggle worthy for sure.

That it's catchy, sure has James Bartholomew pretty salty about it.

When I use it, it's more or less to indicate a person is mostly using Hyperbole and a holier than thou attitude. Happens all over this forum, in the archives and today.

That JK was calling me out on it, has more to do with the curiosity of its common use. And, whether or not there's any merit to it.

So I'd say there was more to sharing this exchange than just self-promotion. I am genuinely interested in user response to the application thereof.

 Originally Posted By: Kori
Oh, and someone can't "virtue signal" at me (as an anonymous media consumer) until they've gotten my attention!


Sort of like that whole Blackwood debacle. Sure was a hot shitty good time. Last I heard, he's still hocking chinese knock-offs and is back to making Theistic Satanist videos. Maybe he's grown bored of that flea-market shtick. Been a few years. ;\)
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#116235 - 05/03/18 12:52 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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The world has become a place wherein black and white are indiscernible. In daily life people want some clear cut things to make sense about it all.

Virtue signaling and triggers, the whole lot of it, is just that.
Confusion.
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#116237 - 05/03/18 10:12 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
When I use it, it's more or less to indicate a person is mostly using Hyperbole and a holier than thou attitude. Happens all over this forum, in the archives and today.


That's how I would use it, too. Maybe with "holier" than thou changed to "unholier"?

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
That JK was calling me out on it, has more to do with the curiosity of its common use. And, whether or not there's any merit to it.

So I'd say there was more to sharing this exchange than just self-promotion. I am genuinely interested in user response to the application thereof.


Yes, there is more. But the exchange looks different, I expect, to viewers outside of it.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: Kori
Oh, and someone can't "virtue signal" at me (as an anonymous media consumer) until they've gotten my attention!


Sort of like that whole Blackwood debacle. Sure was a hot shitty good time. Last I heard, he's still hocking chinese knock-offs and is back to making Theistic Satanist videos. Maybe he's grown bored of that flea-market shtick. Been a few years. ;\)


While Blackwood was entertaining, and occasionally annoying, I don't think he ever had enough depth for virtue signaling. Sometimes a troll is nothing but a troll.

The premier virtue signaler in Satanism, in my opinion, is Diane Vera. She showed up about 25 years ago on the old FidoNet (pre-internet) forums, offering her services as mediator among the various flavors and factions of Satanism. Apart from obvious satire, I had never seen anyone virtue signal about gender, sexual orientation, religious belief, politics, demographics, etc. at such density in writing. Many of her posts, in my view, read like bits of script from a stand up comedy routine about political correctness. (I found a few of her articles from that period still online, but her FIDONET posts were even better!) I found a thread in the archives here about her, and was amused that she rated some positive comments.

Back to the original topic of the film and bestiality, the topic dried up in a matter of days after the Oscars. Really was no different than changing one of the last lines in THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, where Aragon says "Let's hunt some Orc" to the obvious "Let's hump some Orc". I wasn't thinking about actual sex with mythical species (just not my thing) when I said that walking out of the cinema.
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#116238 - 05/03/18 10:27 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Dimitri]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Posts: 153
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
The world has become a place wherein black and white are indiscernible.


That seems at a first quick read over to be a true statement, but actually it's not true. Individuals still have negative or positive reactions to ideas and situations, same as always. What has changed steadily over the past century or so is the experience of encountering a wider variety of blacks and whites, often about things unfamiliar to the individual.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
In daily life people want some clear cut things to make sense about it all.


Which is pretty much how we all are wired. Experiencing those things becoming less clear cut happens to anyone who doesn't spend their lives in a limited environment where everyone they know they have always known, and a secondary meaning for "stranger" is "enemy".

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Virtue signaling and triggers, the whole lot of it, is just that.
Confusion.


Confusion is something that comes along with a first experience of the unknown. How someone deals with that confusion is what matters.
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#116239 - 05/03/18 10:47 AM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Kori Houghton]
SIN3 Offline
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I have personal experience with Vera. She went off the radar for a time (she hadn't written in quite sometime) then re-emerged to pen a piece about the widespread application of the term "Pedophile". Similar to what you see happening in the Liberal Progressive camp, which tries to change minds about that and considering Pedophilia a sexual orientation.

Blackwood's a troll sure, but with a purpose. That's why you only see him trolling self-identified Satanists, favoring Abrahamic Religions, and his chosen targets... It's not even subtle, it's pretty blatant. Vera was on the plate for a time. There's some background detail I won't go into here, but there was a reason he chose her.
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#116241 - 05/03/18 01:19 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Kori Houghton]
Dimitri Offline
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Untrue on what appears to be individual level. As soon as a group starts to form there will be a shift to grey. Experience in management has shown me that much.

As far as dealing with confusion goes, everyone uses the same method. Categorize it into black or white and shifting colour when the need arises.
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#116563 - 07/12/18 01:12 PM Re: Virtue Signaling [Re: Dimitri]
fiendish Offline
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Posts: 468
Feeding the poor doesn't need consent, as giving the needy what they need doesn't necessarily mean consent, as feeding animals doesn't mean consent. Generally feeding shouldn't be accepted as a kind of consent. Yet, we see procedures in which giving the needy what they need is thought as a kind of consent to use them.
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