Page 1 of 2 12>
Topic Options
#116009 - 03/09/18 03:06 PM Nihilism
Adrian1194 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/11/18
Posts: 15
I'm curious of what you guys think of nihilism. Can it be used as a tool to bring self-liberation or is it just an excuse for one to be a vegetable?



Edited by Adrian1194 (03/09/18 03:06 PM)

Top
#116017 - 03/09/18 08:59 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Adrian1194]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
I'm curious of what you guys think of nihilism. Can it be used as a tool to bring self-liberation or is it just an excuse for one to be a vegetable?



I think it can be all of the above, or an either/or scenario depending I guess. I really do think it's a deceptively loaded and binary option. If it is a route a better life, but the person cannot abide being labeled a "vegetable," then the "liberation" seems limited at best. I consider it contradictory and self-defacating, but there may be ways to make that work I guess. If that person is already limited then accepting that and still not getting discouraged can still be liberating; however, That seems extreme though and arguably an exception that proves the rule.

But letting go of what was as garbage and using nihilistic hedonism as handlebars to something better in some ways worked for me. The negation of what was sometimes leaves a void only pleasure and joy can fill in the interim.

It's not a straight line though. Purpose and drive is something that can be checked with a little nihilistic hedonism sometimes. Like a safety valve to keep from overloading. Any perspective or philosophy might be pragmatically useful depending on the circumstances. In that regard dangerous philosophies like nihilism don't necessarily get chucked, but shelved. Or perhaps locked in a safe to be used only in emergencies so as to avoid accidents or friendly fire.


Edited by samowens84 (03/09/18 09:01 PM)

Top
#116020 - 03/10/18 01:19 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Adrian1194]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
I'm curious of what you guys think of nihilism. Can it be used as a tool to bring self-liberation or is it just an excuse for one to be a vegetable?

Indeed the latter if you're talking about an individual attitude; N is the presupposition of Existentialism [see that thread here]. Once you've rejected all intrinsic, traditional, authoritative meaning, then you have no basis for your own existence except happenstance, "hazard": Roquentin's "nausea" in Sartre.

As a Political Scientist, I should note that N has a different meaning therein. It characterizes a rejection of all poliotical ideologies and structures as oppressive and corrupt. The political nihilist wants to tear it all down on the assumption that anarchism (as differentiated from anarchy) is preferable. In my book FindFar I discuss and include the "Revolutionary Catechism" of the most adamant Russian Nihilist, Nechayev. He makes Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin et al. look like pussies. \:o
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#116021 - 03/10/18 02:03 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 202
Just say no to nihilism. It is like acid injected into your brain. It will eat your mind and leave you a gibbering zombie for life. If nihilism is allowed to spread, it will eat reality itself. Don't mess with the shit. If anyone tries to push nihilism on you, kill the fucker.
Top
#116022 - 03/10/18 02:29 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: samowens84]
Zeno Offline
member


Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 149
Opinions are worthless, and nihilism is an extreme worthless opinion ignoring the only authority that matters, nature. Humanity drowns self, world and the place of self in world in opinion: left and right; black and white; democrat and republican. Nihilism desires to simplify by removing the bullshit of opinion, but it becomes a bullshit opinion.

The sum of everything, the ultimate authority, the only reality that has existed, exists and will ever exist is nature. There is nothing beyond, outside or above nature, and nature is the only authority that matters to base all ideas, deeds and choices upon. All that is contrary to nature is bullshit opinion, and nihilism is bullshit opinion, for it denies nature.

A fish loves water, for water is necessary to life for the fish; there is no need to derive any value judgement upon this; take away, or add to what is, what is the way of things, such as how the fish relates to water in its design and motion.

The human body, brain, mind and reason derives from and is of nature. The common patterns of nature apply to the human as it applies to all things. An opinion, often, but not always, is contrary to nature, and brings unnecessary suffering and death. If it is the opinion of a man to seek to pray rather than invite medical assistance from the doctor to their cancer, the opinion will bring to themselves suffering and death.

Dopamine is a chemical in the body, it is not an opinion, it is a product of nature, driving various emotions, moods and passions to certain life-giving ends. Too much dopamine in the brain causes schizophrenia, too little causes ADHD. Parkinsons disease impacts both mind and body, it is caused by lack of dopamine. The hormone dopamine has no need for religion or politics, it objectively drives motivation and focus towards hunting, be it seeking a mate, or an addiction to gambling. Oxytocin, is not an opinion, it is a chemical driving the motion of milk from the breast of mother to baby, or the bonding between mates or tribe.

The domestic cat manipulates the oxytocin pathway of the human animal, soliciting caregiving and thus both human and cat feel good as oxytocin is produced from the interaction.

Nihilism is contrary to nature, it denies the objective impact of oxytocin and dopamine upon the human condition. Oxytocin is love, without this hormone, there are no feelings of love, no relationships or connection. All studies confirm that without relationships, without oxytocin, mental illness, onset of sickness, old age and early death is the end state. Low or no dopamine erases motivation, passion and focus for most or all things; its lack causes depression, self-harming and suicide.

The cat lacks opinion, it is a pleasure-seeking beast deriving simple pleasures from hunting, grooming, eating, sleeping, exploring, play and warmth. The cat, living always in the moment, is driven by its hormones in a sensory and experiential life.

The epicurean is like the cat, they follow natural choices and deeds in the pursuit of ataraxia, a contented life of pleasure. The epicurean avoids politics, for this upsets the mind. The epicurean, unlike the hedonist, chooses moderation, for excess upsets body and mind. The epicurean places emphasis on friendship, and is rewarded with oxytocin. The epicurean, like the cat, lives in harmony with nature, the ultimate authority.
_________________________
Greece, the Bankers bitch.

Top
#116025 - 03/10/18 11:51 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
"The sum of everything, the ultimate authority, the only reality that has existed, exists and will ever exist is nature. There is nothing beyond, outside or above nature, and nature is the only authority that matters to base all ideas, deeds and choices upon. All that is contrary to nature is bullshit opinion, and nihilism is bullshit opinion, for it denies nature."

Sure, but all bullshit aside, what could feel more natural then just pure fucking laziness and morning lust? More satisfying than the morning dump I'd say.

Point taken though. However to delve back into philosophical brain cheese why not challenge nature and test it's limits with "bullshit" philosophies every once in a while? Seems in hindsight it can be useful in summoning the true nature of things by denying it a bit.

I view it a bit like spring cleaning. Sometimes nature is polluted with shit, so for me it operates a bit like a reverse cleansing.


Edited by samowens84 (03/10/18 12:11 PM)

Top
#116026 - 03/10/18 12:09 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Zeno
The sum of everything, the ultimate authority, the only reality that has existed, exists and will ever exist is nature.

Modernity usually uses the N-wrd in perception only: the observed phenomenon and regularities thereof external to the MindStar of the discrete, juxtaposed [non-N] self. [Cf. MindStar and Eric Hoffer's "The Unnaturalness of Human Nature".]

Also humans' comprehension of external N-phenomena, and proposal of N-Law accordingly, is filtered by their individual Cus. Hence NL is not a certainty, merely a consensus of votes/authority.

The Egyptians were principally interested not in the manifestation of N, but in the creative and OU-enforcing intelligences behind the totally: the Neteru. [Cf. TOS & IllumiAnX.] They saw in every N-phenomenon an inherent impulse to fulfillment, perfection: Xeper or Telos.

The above cautions concerning sloppiness with the N-word, however, is certainly not grounds for Nihilism.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#116027 - 03/10/18 01:23 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1673
Loc: Ca
 Quote:
Nihilism is contrary to nature, it denies the objective impact of oxytocin and dopamine upon the human condition. Oxytocin is love, without this hormone, there are no feelings of love, no relationships or connection. All studies confirm that without relationships, without oxytocin, mental illness, onset of sickness, old age and early death is the end state


This is a very 'geocentric' and anthropocentric argument. Earth and Man do not define nature, which includes the entire universe.

The position assumes the microcosm of Earth's little organic tide pool and the behavior therein are an example of an overreaching 'purpose' (due to their hormones), rather then a set of goldilocks criteria being met then in turn demanding survival stategy to keep.

Retract perspective. In the retarcted universal view what does that pleasure seeking cat or love seeking human amount to? Both just organisms with tendencies that arise within Earth's pale blue tidepool.

Values, meaning, and purpose can only arise where a tidepool is present, and only when it has a species smart enough for existentialism. The great thing about nihilism is it acknowledges the non-existance of itself, and it isn't even a paradox.

(This) Nihilism accepts that that our experience and the meaning we apply is a product of the experience itself. It really has fuck all to do what is intrinsic, anyway.

Reproduction/safety related hormones don't need to be innate for them to have significance. This, in the same way a stock market doesn't have to truly exist to have the value that man has defined for it.
_________________________
Spiritual : Abstraction ::

D. Scientific : Quod erat demonstrandum

Top
#116028 - 03/10/18 02:40 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: CanisMachina42]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 202
Actually the cool kids aren't nihilists, they're voidists. In this view, not only is there no meaning, morality or god, there's no "thing" at all--including self, consciousness and the universe itself. It's all a big void. Which is basically Buddhism without the silly parts about compassion, suffering, karma and dharma. Thus voidism is both a tool of liberation, from the illusion of "things" (not that "liberation" means anything, 'cuz there's nothing to be liberated from, and nothing to liberate) and an "excuse to be a vegetable", as you put it. The two are the same thing; in fact they are both no thing. All things are none.

Edited by Brother Nihil (03/10/18 02:44 PM)

Top
#116030 - 03/10/18 05:54 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
Actually the cool kids aren't nihilists, they're voidists. In this view, not only is there no meaning, morality or god, there's no "thing" at all--including self, consciousness and the universe itself. It's all a big void. Which is basically Buddhism without the silly parts about compassion, suffering, karma and dharma. Thus voidism is both a tool of liberation, from the illusion of "things" (not that "liberation" means anything, 'cuz there's nothing to be liberated from, and nothing to liberate) and an "excuse to be a vegetable", as you put it. The two are the same thing; in fact they are both no thing. All things are none.

Nice try, but you've plunged into the Tao Trap here by defining the definition-rejecting.

I am reminded of the student who, after a lecture on Descartes, became so agitated that he couldn't get to sleep that night. Finally, unable to stand it any longer, he telephoned the proofessor at 4AM and screamed, "Tell me, Professor - I've GOT to know! DO I EXIST?!"

The professor yawned. "And who wants to know?"
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#116061 - 03/13/18 11:12 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Adrian1194 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/11/18
Posts: 15
Ok guys, I have to say the you've came with some pretty smart answers, but here's my thoughts on Nihilism. As for the case of Nihilism, the idea of "nothing matters" can really bring you some sort of liberation and make you feel like now you can finally cultivate the Self and leave all of your fears behind. But as far as that goes, it works against human nature. As you know, people are not just cold reasoning machines, we have feelings and instincts too, and while Nihilism can seem as the most reasonable approach, it denies some important aspects of human nature. I think that you can still bring that mindset focused on self-liberation through Existentialism (and as easily as with Nihilism), or can even be amplified if it's combined with Stoicism.



Nihilism seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. When people become nihilists they have such an objective view upon life, that they forget that the meaning of life is a problem of subjective matter. The meaning of life it can't truly be defined. We have our unconscious drives and motives for why we love to do something, and, as Viktor Frankl has put it, to ask what's the meaning of life is like going to the best chess player and asking him "Tell me master, what's the best move?"


Edited by Adrian1194 (03/13/18 11:17 AM)

Top
#116065 - 03/14/18 05:48 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Adrian1194]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 202
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
...


Your mind is full of useless constructs. There's no self. There's nothing to liberate. There's no human nature. There's no -ism. There's no baby. There's no bathwater. Throw it all out. If all else fails, stab yourself in the heart with a katana.


Edited by Brother Nihil (03/14/18 06:14 AM)

Top
#116066 - 03/14/18 06:30 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Zeno Offline
member


Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 149
 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
...


Your mind is full of useless constructs. There's no self. There's nothing to liberate. There's no human nature. There's no -ism. There's no baby. There's no bathwater. Throw it all out. If all else fails, stab yourself in the heart with a katana.


Nihilism is a useless opinion, only corpses in a graveyard are able to become true nihilists.
_________________________
Greece, the Bankers bitch.

Top
#116068 - 03/14/18 05:40 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
One of the Millennials Michael Moore interviewed in one of his muckumfntaries was wearing a plain black baseball cap that said in simple text on the front: FUCK EVERYBODY.

That struck me as pleasantly nihilistic. \:\)

It occurs to me that what I haven't seen in a long time are the charming metal "message" buttons that were a staple of the 1960s, from the peace symbol onwards. Like other Boomers I had a bit of a collection. I remember a couple handy for CoS/TOS conclaves:

YOU MAY KNEEL BUT NO EXCESSIVE GROVELING

OH, SHIT - YOU'RE GOING TO TALK TO ME, ARE'NT YOU?

... and there were some charming conversation starters:

GUESS HOW MANY DONUTS WILL FIT ON MY DICK

I ambushed Karla with this one back in the '70s. I wasn't sure whether I was going to get a laugh or a black eye, but A&D howled:

SMILE IF YOU'RE NOT WEARING ANY PANTIES
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#116069 - 03/14/18 09:13 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 766
Loc: Oslo, Norway
I used to wear one...

SILENCE!
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
Page 1 of 2 12>


Moderator:  TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.091 seconds of which 0.066 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.