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#116009 - 03/09/18 03:06 PM Nihilism
Adrian1194 Offline
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Registered: 01/11/18
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I'm curious of what you guys think of nihilism. Can it be used as a tool to bring self-liberation or is it just an excuse for one to be a vegetable?



Edited by Adrian1194 (03/09/18 03:06 PM)

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#116017 - 03/09/18 08:59 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Adrian1194]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 555
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
I'm curious of what you guys think of nihilism. Can it be used as a tool to bring self-liberation or is it just an excuse for one to be a vegetable?



I think it can be all of the above, or an either/or scenario depending I guess. I really do think it's a deceptively loaded and binary option. If it is a route a better life, but the person cannot abide being labeled a "vegetable," then the "liberation" seems limited at best. I consider it contradictory and self-defacating, but there may be ways to make that work I guess. If that person is already limited then accepting that and still not getting discouraged can still be liberating; however, That seems extreme though and arguably an exception that proves the rule.

But letting go of what was as garbage and using nihilistic hedonism as handlebars to something better in some ways worked for me. The negation of what was sometimes leaves a void only pleasure and joy can fill in the interim.

It's not a straight line though. Purpose and drive is something that can be checked with a little nihilistic hedonism sometimes. Like a safety valve to keep from overloading. Any perspective or philosophy might be pragmatically useful depending on the circumstances. In that regard dangerous philosophies like nihilism don't necessarily get chucked, but shelved. Or perhaps locked in a safe to be used only in emergencies so as to avoid accidents or friendly fire.


Edited by samowens84 (03/09/18 09:01 PM)

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#116020 - 03/10/18 01:19 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Adrian1194]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2721
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
I'm curious of what you guys think of nihilism. Can it be used as a tool to bring self-liberation or is it just an excuse for one to be a vegetable?

Indeed the latter if you're talking about an individual attitude; N is the presupposition of Existentialism [see that thread here]. Once you've rejected all intrinsic, traditional, authoritative meaning, then you have no basis for your own existence except happenstance, "hazard": Roquentin's "nausea" in Sartre.

As a Political Scientist, I should note that N has a different meaning therein. It characterizes a rejection of all poliotical ideologies and structures as oppressive and corrupt. The political nihilist wants to tear it all down on the assumption that anarchism (as differentiated from anarchy) is preferable. In my book FindFar I discuss and include the "Revolutionary Catechism" of the most adamant Russian Nihilist, Nechayev. He makes Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin et al. look like pussies. \:o
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#116021 - 03/10/18 02:03 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Brother Nihil Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 201
Just say no to nihilism. It is like acid injected into your brain. It will eat your mind and leave you a gibbering zombie for life. If nihilism is allowed to spread, it will eat reality itself. Don't mess with the shit. If anyone tries to push nihilism on you, kill the fucker.
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#116022 - 03/10/18 02:29 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: samowens84]
Zeno Offline
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Opinions are worthless, and nihilism is an extreme worthless opinion ignoring the only authority that matters, nature. Humanity drowns self, world and the place of self in world in opinion: left and right; black and white; democrat and republican. Nihilism desires to simplify by removing the bullshit of opinion, but it becomes a bullshit opinion.

The sum of everything, the ultimate authority, the only reality that has existed, exists and will ever exist is nature. There is nothing beyond, outside or above nature, and nature is the only authority that matters to base all ideas, deeds and choices upon. All that is contrary to nature is bullshit opinion, and nihilism is bullshit opinion, for it denies nature.

A fish loves water, for water is necessary to life for the fish; there is no need to derive any value judgement upon this; take away, or add to what is, what is the way of things, such as how the fish relates to water in its design and motion.

The human body, brain, mind and reason derives from and is of nature. The common patterns of nature apply to the human as it applies to all things. An opinion, often, but not always, is contrary to nature, and brings unnecessary suffering and death. If it is the opinion of a man to seek to pray rather than invite medical assistance from the doctor to their cancer, the opinion will bring to themselves suffering and death.

Dopamine is a chemical in the body, it is not an opinion, it is a product of nature, driving various emotions, moods and passions to certain life-giving ends. Too much dopamine in the brain causes schizophrenia, too little causes ADHD. Parkinsons disease impacts both mind and body, it is caused by lack of dopamine. The hormone dopamine has no need for religion or politics, it objectively drives motivation and focus towards hunting, be it seeking a mate, or an addiction to gambling. Oxytocin, is not an opinion, it is a chemical driving the motion of milk from the breast of mother to baby, or the bonding between mates or tribe.

The domestic cat manipulates the oxytocin pathway of the human animal, soliciting caregiving and thus both human and cat feel good as oxytocin is produced from the interaction.

Nihilism is contrary to nature, it denies the objective impact of oxytocin and dopamine upon the human condition. Oxytocin is love, without this hormone, there are no feelings of love, no relationships or connection. All studies confirm that without relationships, without oxytocin, mental illness, onset of sickness, old age and early death is the end state. Low or no dopamine erases motivation, passion and focus for most or all things; its lack causes depression, self-harming and suicide.

The cat lacks opinion, it is a pleasure-seeking beast deriving simple pleasures from hunting, grooming, eating, sleeping, exploring, play and warmth. The cat, living always in the moment, is driven by its hormones in a sensory and experiential life.

The epicurean is like the cat, they follow natural choices and deeds in the pursuit of ataraxia, a contented life of pleasure. The epicurean avoids politics, for this upsets the mind. The epicurean, unlike the hedonist, chooses moderation, for excess upsets body and mind. The epicurean places emphasis on friendship, and is rewarded with oxytocin. The epicurean, like the cat, lives in harmony with nature, the ultimate authority.
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#116025 - 03/10/18 11:51 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
samowens84 Offline
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"The sum of everything, the ultimate authority, the only reality that has existed, exists and will ever exist is nature. There is nothing beyond, outside or above nature, and nature is the only authority that matters to base all ideas, deeds and choices upon. All that is contrary to nature is bullshit opinion, and nihilism is bullshit opinion, for it denies nature."

Sure, but all bullshit aside, what could feel more natural then just pure fucking laziness and morning lust? More satisfying than the morning dump I'd say.

Point taken though. However to delve back into philosophical brain cheese why not challenge nature and test it's limits with "bullshit" philosophies every once in a while? Seems in hindsight it can be useful in summoning the true nature of things by denying it a bit.

I view it a bit like spring cleaning. Sometimes nature is polluted with shit, so for me it operates a bit like a reverse cleansing.


Edited by samowens84 (03/10/18 12:11 PM)

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#116026 - 03/10/18 12:09 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Zeno
The sum of everything, the ultimate authority, the only reality that has existed, exists and will ever exist is nature.

Modernity usually uses the N-wrd in perception only: the observed phenomenon and regularities thereof external to the MindStar of the discrete, juxtaposed [non-N] self. [Cf. MindStar and Eric Hoffer's "The Unnaturalness of Human Nature".]

Also humans' comprehension of external N-phenomena, and proposal of N-Law accordingly, is filtered by their individual Cus. Hence NL is not a certainty, merely a consensus of votes/authority.

The Egyptians were principally interested not in the manifestation of N, but in the creative and OU-enforcing intelligences behind the totally: the Neteru. [Cf. TOS & IllumiAnX.] They saw in every N-phenomenon an inherent impulse to fulfillment, perfection: Xeper or Telos.

The above cautions concerning sloppiness with the N-word, however, is certainly not grounds for Nihilism.
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#116027 - 03/10/18 01:23 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
Nihilism is contrary to nature, it denies the objective impact of oxytocin and dopamine upon the human condition. Oxytocin is love, without this hormone, there are no feelings of love, no relationships or connection. All studies confirm that without relationships, without oxytocin, mental illness, onset of sickness, old age and early death is the end state


This is a very 'geocentric' and anthropocentric argument. Earth and Man do not define nature, which includes the entire universe.

The position assumes the microcosm of Earth's little organic tide pool and the behavior therein are an example of an overreaching 'purpose' (due to their hormones), rather then a set of goldilocks criteria being met then in turn demanding survival stategy to keep.

Retract perspective. In the retarcted universal view what does that pleasure seeking cat or love seeking human amount to? Both just organisms with tendencies that arise within Earth's pale blue tidepool.

Values, meaning, and purpose can only arise where a tidepool is present, and only when it has a species smart enough for existentialism. The great thing about nihilism is it acknowledges the non-existance of itself, and it isn't even a paradox.

(This) Nihilism accepts that that our experience and the meaning we apply is a product of the experience itself. It really has fuck all to do what is intrinsic, anyway.

Reproduction/safety related hormones don't need to be innate for them to have significance. This, in the same way a stock market doesn't have to truly exist to have the value that man has defined for it.
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#116028 - 03/10/18 02:40 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: CanisMachina42]
Brother Nihil Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 201
Actually the cool kids aren't nihilists, they're voidists. In this view, not only is there no meaning, morality or god, there's no "thing" at all--including self, consciousness and the universe itself. It's all a big void. Which is basically Buddhism without the silly parts about compassion, suffering, karma and dharma. Thus voidism is both a tool of liberation, from the illusion of "things" (not that "liberation" means anything, 'cuz there's nothing to be liberated from, and nothing to liberate) and an "excuse to be a vegetable", as you put it. The two are the same thing; in fact they are both no thing. All things are none.

Edited by Brother Nihil (03/10/18 02:44 PM)

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#116030 - 03/10/18 05:54 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
Actually the cool kids aren't nihilists, they're voidists. In this view, not only is there no meaning, morality or god, there's no "thing" at all--including self, consciousness and the universe itself. It's all a big void. Which is basically Buddhism without the silly parts about compassion, suffering, karma and dharma. Thus voidism is both a tool of liberation, from the illusion of "things" (not that "liberation" means anything, 'cuz there's nothing to be liberated from, and nothing to liberate) and an "excuse to be a vegetable", as you put it. The two are the same thing; in fact they are both no thing. All things are none.

Nice try, but you've plunged into the Tao Trap here by defining the definition-rejecting.

I am reminded of the student who, after a lecture on Descartes, became so agitated that he couldn't get to sleep that night. Finally, unable to stand it any longer, he telephoned the proofessor at 4AM and screamed, "Tell me, Professor - I've GOT to know! DO I EXIST?!"

The professor yawned. "And who wants to know?"
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#116061 - 03/13/18 11:12 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Adrian1194 Offline
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Registered: 01/11/18
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Ok guys, I have to say the you've came with some pretty smart answers, but here's my thoughts on Nihilism. As for the case of Nihilism, the idea of "nothing matters" can really bring you some sort of liberation and make you feel like now you can finally cultivate the Self and leave all of your fears behind. But as far as that goes, it works against human nature. As you know, people are not just cold reasoning machines, we have feelings and instincts too, and while Nihilism can seem as the most reasonable approach, it denies some important aspects of human nature. I think that you can still bring that mindset focused on self-liberation through Existentialism (and as easily as with Nihilism), or can even be amplified if it's combined with Stoicism.



Nihilism seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. When people become nihilists they have such an objective view upon life, that they forget that the meaning of life is a problem of subjective matter. The meaning of life it can't truly be defined. We have our unconscious drives and motives for why we love to do something, and, as Viktor Frankl has put it, to ask what's the meaning of life is like going to the best chess player and asking him "Tell me master, what's the best move?"


Edited by Adrian1194 (03/13/18 11:17 AM)

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#116065 - 03/14/18 05:48 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Adrian1194]
Brother Nihil Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 201
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
...


Your mind is full of useless constructs. There's no self. There's nothing to liberate. There's no human nature. There's no -ism. There's no baby. There's no bathwater. Throw it all out. If all else fails, stab yourself in the heart with a katana.


Edited by Brother Nihil (03/14/18 06:14 AM)

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#116066 - 03/14/18 06:30 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Zeno Offline
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Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 145
 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
 Originally Posted By: Adrian1194
...


Your mind is full of useless constructs. There's no self. There's nothing to liberate. There's no human nature. There's no -ism. There's no baby. There's no bathwater. Throw it all out. If all else fails, stab yourself in the heart with a katana.


Nihilism is a useless opinion, only corpses in a graveyard are able to become true nihilists.
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#116068 - 03/14/18 05:40 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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One of the Millennials Michael Moore interviewed in one of his muckumfntaries was wearing a plain black baseball cap that said in simple text on the front: FUCK EVERYBODY.

That struck me as pleasantly nihilistic. \:\)

It occurs to me that what I haven't seen in a long time are the charming metal "message" buttons that were a staple of the 1960s, from the peace symbol onwards. Like other Boomers I had a bit of a collection. I remember a couple handy for CoS/TOS conclaves:

YOU MAY KNEEL BUT NO EXCESSIVE GROVELING

OH, SHIT - YOU'RE GOING TO TALK TO ME, ARE'NT YOU?

... and there were some charming conversation starters:

GUESS HOW MANY DONUTS WILL FIT ON MY DICK

I ambushed Karla with this one back in the '70s. I wasn't sure whether I was going to get a laugh or a black eye, but A&D howled:

SMILE IF YOU'RE NOT WEARING ANY PANTIES
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#116069 - 03/14/18 09:13 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Woland Moderator Offline
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I used to wear one...

SILENCE!
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Contra Mundum!

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#116070 - 03/15/18 12:45 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Woland]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 555
Seems like some Comanche shit. And yes, I am smiling since you ask ;). Feel awkward now? XD

Hashtag# nofucksgiven

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#116073 - 03/17/18 02:00 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: samowens84]
Vigilia_Matutina Offline
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Nihilism could be a double-edged sword where one is faced with total isolation and being apathetic about his situation. Where on the other hand, he could also be free from social constraints and convictions.
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#116077 - 03/18/18 05:44 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Vigilia_Matutina]
ShadowLover Offline
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I admit to having to google the meaning of 'Nihilism" because it was a little foggy in my brain. But now that I have... What a depressing state to live in. It says nothing in the world has a real existence, which I agree with to a point. But one's ability to be creative does exist, and when we are creating something we want, life has meaning. That's where we can find all sorts of passion! That's what makes life exciting and meaningful.
Honestly, I think true nihilists are missing out on the best ride in the park... Life!
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#116083 - 03/19/18 03:03 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: ShadowLover]
Brother Nihil Offline
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Life is indeed a ride--straight into a black hole.

A non-nihilist takes the ride inside a spaceship with a virtual reality simulator playing 24/7 so he never has to see what's really going on outside the walls.

A nihilist takes the ride in nothing but a space suit, looking straight at the black hole as it looms ever larger in his field of vision.

So I wouldn't say nihilists are missing out on the ride; maybe they're just seeing the ride for what it is.




Edited by Brother Nihil (03/19/18 03:13 AM)

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#116085 - 03/19/18 03:54 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Brother Nihil]
ShadowLover Offline
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Well, I have always preferred the scenic route - the journey can be just as fun as the destination.

So as a nihilist, do you see no point to anything? Do you feel like a speck on an inevitable, uncontrollable journey? Or less than a speck (if you don't exist). What do you do with your consciousness? I mean, do you get passionate about anything?

I'm trying to better understand the nihilist mindset.
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#116353 - 05/29/18 10:47 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Dark One Offline
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Posts: 84
 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
Actually the cool kids aren't nihilists, they're voidists. In this view, not only is there no meaning, morality or god


I think it's worth pointing out that the vast majority of the world religions don't involve a 'God' at all. As Richard Dawkins rightly pointed out all you're really doing is taking something as utterly complex as the universe and then you're explaining it as a creation of something that is even more complex than the thing it is you're trying to explain in the first place.

Morality is a tricky subject but seems to be a combination of natural evolution and human cultural trends there isn't a God to give us a list of commandments on a stone tablet not that we would particularly want that. As far as Satanism is concerned a good guide is essentially karmic in that if you do good for others you get a pleasurable response in that other people do things for you in kind or you just get an Oxytocin kick, kind of a natural drug fix.

As for the meaning of life you can really get a good sense of what that actually is if you go on Youtube listen to what people who are terminally ill with only a few months or weeks to live have to say. They never talk about the money they made, the things they owned or devotion to whatever God or religion they always talk about certain other things. The kind of things that as a Satanist you will appreciate.

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#116592 - 07/21/18 04:16 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Zeno]
CCB Offline
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Registered: 05/24/17
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Loc: United States
 Quote:
Nihilism is contrary to nature, it denies the objective impact of oxytocin and dopamine upon the human condition. Oxytocin is love, without this hormone, there are no feelings of love, no relationships or connection. All studies confirm that without relationships, without oxytocin, mental illness, onset of sickness, old age and early death is the end state. Low or no dopamine erases motivation, passion and focus for most or all things; its lack causes depression, self-harming and suicide.


The existence of dopamine and oxytocin would only negate a form of nihilism that denies that people have motivations at all. This is not the actual position of anyone who calls themselves a nihilist. The position of nihilists is at least that life has no objective meaning, or in addition to that, that the subjective meaning people ascribe to life is for some reason wrong or unfounded. To refute the former, you have to show that life does have an objective meaning independent of human opinion. To refute the latter, you have to show that life has an objective meaning independent of human opinion just like in the first case, or that the subjective opinions of people cannot be refuted.

Your post does neither of these things successfully. All you have done is identified that there exist two chemicals within the brain that drive behavior. Of course you can pedantically refer to these things as "objective" because they exist physically within the world, but they are not "objective" in the sense of being universal and external mandates for behavior that would refute nihilism, nor do they represent motivations themselves. Motivations are a conscious function felt internally by people. Dopamine and oxytocin, though they completely coincide with their respective feelings and motivations, are causes of behavior. A nihilist does not deny that there are things that cause behavior. They deny that certain behaviors are warranted or unwarranted. Whether the behaviors, hell, whether the conscious motivations that coincide with them, actually happen or not is completely irrelevant to their position. It does not logically follow that a behavior that produces the release of dopamine can then be considered "warranted" and I do not know how you would rationalize this. In other words, nihilists do not reject the occurrence of motivations, they reject the credibility of motivations. Pointing out that motivations occur and are related to brain chemistry as you have establishes the occurrence of motivations, which is irrelevant, and not the credibility of motivations, which is necessary to advance your viewpoint. The fact that goals are based in brain chemistry does not lend them any credibility. Jumping out of an airplane is not any more justified or meaningful because objects in a man's brain cause him to do it.

Oh, you may say, but the chemicals in his brain make it seem justified to him, and that is all that matters? How nihilistic of you to say!

Your insistence that these chemicals must be important because they lead to positive human survival shows a sort of blindness in your reasoning. Yes, they lead to positive human survival and were created by natural processes that optimized this, but that is not the question. The question is, is any of this valuable at all?. In trying to answer this question, you have presupposed that survival and nature are valuable without examining your position critically as needed.


Edited by CCB (07/21/18 04:19 PM)

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#116944 - 09/03/18 07:35 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: CCB]
madvuduskya Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 55
You are all fucking nihilists and you all fall either into passive nihilism, actual nihilism or active nihilism, depending upon your belief structure.
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#116945 - 09/03/18 09:24 AM Re: Nihilism [Re: madvuduskya]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 555
 Originally Posted By: madvuduskya
You are all fucking nihilists and you all fall either into passive nihilism, actual nihilism or active nihilism, depending upon your belief structure.


Much of the people here, yes. And in spite of the pseudointellectual arguments made to confuse less sophisticated opponents its a contemptable philosophical position. Perhaps I'm wrong but it always seems to communicate the disappointment of a needy child insisting someone else prove to them their life has meaning. If it doesn't then go do what you want. Have fun, in whatever way seems best to you. If secretly you feel it does and just can't see it, or feel alone and want to be a parody of nihilism, why not.

Bottom line arguing for Nihilism is like being alone in an apartment and arguing for the right to a messy room. Have a messy room. Who gives a fuck. Whose permission are you waiting for anyway.

Rage is likely at the core for such arguments. Seeing the way where people can be loving and kind without it being necessary to be an asshole, and yet still see people insist on being miserable assholes anyway is enough to make a monster out of even the most warmhearted individuals. Very likely they still are loving and warm, but may on occasion enjoy punishing a world that treats unconditional love and kindness like a sin. And, perversely, individuals who treat warmth this way are looking for punishment and try to realign individuals who do have unconditional love to instead treat them as cruelly as they feel they deserve.


Edited by samowens84 (09/03/18 09:31 AM)

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#116955 - 09/04/18 06:28 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: samowens84]
CCB Offline
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Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 25
Loc: United States
 Quote:
Perhaps I'm wrong but it always seems to communicate the disappointment of a needy child insisting someone else prove to them their life has meaning.


Neediness aside, one must prove as with any assertion that life has meaning, rather than just assume it.

 Quote:
Bottom line arguing for Nihilism is like being alone in an apartment and arguing for the right to a messy room. Have a messy room. Who gives a fuck. Whose permission are you waiting for anyway.


Nihilism is the belief that some particular aspect of life, usually regarded as important, is in fact not real or nonexistent or unimportant. I have no idea what your analogy has to do with that. Nihilism is like being alone in an apartment and arguing for the denial of some aspect of apartments that people usually regard as crucial or fundamental. No self respecting nihilist argues for the "right" to do anything. To do so is the opposite of a negation, and so could not be nihilism. Interestingly, your last three sentences are more characteristic of nihilism than your actual analogy, since you negate the need to ask permission, and doubt that any of it matters anyway.

 Quote:
Rage is likely at the core for such arguments


Nobody knows what motivates nihilistic arguments. There is likely not the same motivation for each argument since the motivations of people tend to differ. It wouldn't affect the quality of a nihilistic argument no matter what the motivation was. It wouldn't invalidate nihilism if all cases of it were motivated by a sadistic desire to commit genocides across the globe. To say otherwise would be to commit a genetic fallacy.

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#116957 - 09/04/18 06:50 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: CCB]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 555
Not really. No one needs to "prove" life has meaning. That itself seems a self-defeating paradox of nihilism. And that doesn't necessarily make me a nihilist either. It just seems intuitively obvious to me, and so I tall action rather then try to justify it to ignorance. If someone is a sadistic genocidal person and excuses it with nihilism, fine. Such people are on their way to fuck themselves over in their hubris.


To say some things are meaningless is not to identify as a "nihilist." It just means I personally discriminate between meaningful and non meaningful actions. As someone else a bit smarter then me about some things nihilistic attitudes is part of the all. Or rather, its more like emotional resignation to someone who feels powerless to affect the world, so they say fuck it. I don't have that malaise because I don't feel powerless. I see injustice, and I recognize it from my spiritual connection to the earth and find solutions. That puts me far and away from being a nihilist. If you're wondering my authority, its the earth and my patron gods and goddesses. So even by your definition I'm not a nihilist. Not by any stretch. As for you, I don't care of you are or not, I just took the opportunity to piss on a piss poor philosophy for weak minded individuals. Not that that describes you necessarily. Nihilism as an emotional tool for letting go of material and earthly authorities has its power, pragmatically speaking. To me its the train station at 9 and 3/4 before the train to Hogwarts. A way of letting go of worry for running into the brick wall towards the train station. My experience anyway. The meaninglessness of some feelings in favor of pragmatic action, with mutual understanding amongst equals is the culture of Satanism in my experience. Extreme Machavelian ethics in tune with the needs of the earth with a nihilistic understanding of structured concerns, but with concern for greater structures. I would say that most Satanists are romantics rather then nihilists. Just my opinion.

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#116977 - 09/05/18 08:33 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: samowens84]
CCB Offline
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Registered: 05/24/17
Posts: 25
Loc: United States
 Quote:
No one needs to "prove" life has meaning. That itself seems a self-defeating paradox of nihilism


One is unsure whether they think life has meaning or not. They inquire about whether it is. They decide after the inquiry that it either has meaning or does not. Where is the paradox? The belief that one must prove the worth of life to believe in it philosophically is not the same as the belief that it doesn't actually matter. You may very well believe the meaning of life must be inquired about to be affirmed and then arrive at the conclusion that it does in fact have meaning.

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It just seems intuitively obvious


Intuitive obviousness is not an argument to employ on the plane of philosophical discussion. It may be reason enough for practical action, but it is not convincing, or an argument. Unless you mean to suggest it is self evident that nihilism is false. In which case the debate ends there.

 Quote:
If someone is a sadistic genocidal person and excuses it with nihilism


The things that nihilists do are irrelevant to the validity of nihilism, unless you are taking a purely moral stance against it. Furthermore nihilists are not disposed toward any particular behavior as a result of their beliefs.

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#119713 - 08/02/19 05:40 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: CCB]
Bacchus Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 61
The society suffers from horror vacui. This is the real reason nihilists are attacked. The entire religion, culture and most of philosophy is there to provide answers about the meaning of existence. Since so many people and institutions are invested into this trance they don't take it kindly when someone says "there is no meaning". Why is that necessarily such a bad news anyways? Things just are, they don't have to mean anything.
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#119718 - 08/03/19 02:43 PM Re: Nihilism [Re: Bacchus]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 227
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
I'm sure it doesn't suffer but instead is masochistically engaged with its own horror and the perpetuation of it- an ever-meandering affliction of the species that has relented to newer and newer meanings/means of horror. What we would consider faux pas and unforgivable is flaunted among servile meatbots who can't plot a trajectory. Meaning is a big variable x which can just as well represent an infinite void. Assigned meaning becomes a matter of concensus which alienates.
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