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#116491 - 07/03/18 05:35 AM Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ?
Eternal Darkness Offline
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Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 15


In my opinion , there should be made a distinction between Satan , Lucifer and 'The Devil' even though they are often used synonymously . . .

In my opinion:

Satan = Lord of Darkness

Satan is always associated with the powers of darkness ( in fact even called 'The Prince of Darkness') . . .

Satanism also is centered around 'appearing dark' . . .

More often than not gloomy clothes , anti-Christian symbols etc . . .

More often than not the antithesis to Christianity since Christianity , in a way , always claimed to be a 'light-centered' religion , you know , the supposed good . . .


Concerning Lucifer . . .

While Satanism , more often than not ,is embracing a certain mentality , Lucifer is supposed to be a real being , an angel actually . . .

The 'discarded great angel' who was banned from the Heavens at the beginning of time . . .

He is also often called the 'light-bringer' , similar to Prometheus from Greek mythology . . .

It is said that he was cast out from the Heavens as a troublemaker . . . .

So , you see , already there could be seen a difference . . Like I said , Satanism more often than not is merely embracing a non-conformist attitude ( a certain mentality actually . . .) while Lucifer truly seems to be a real being to worship ( which I might add , the Illuminati do ( I'm a subscriber to the 'New World Order'-theory . . .) )


The 'angel of light'. . .


Concerning 'the Devil' . .



I believe the Devil to be a man-made up entity , supposedly symbolizing the ultimate 'bad' since Christians are supposed to be 'good' . . . probably like some made up controlled opposition . . .



So , there we have it . . . .

In my opinion a distinction should be made . . .

Also , concerning the portrayal of those characters . .









Satan is often portrayed as a being dressed dark with a dark hood . . .

Lucifer is portrayed as an angel . . .

'The Devil' is portrayed as the mythical being he is , in the above picture bearing the words of 'bad' traits of character he is associated with . . .

So , once again . . .


Satan is associated with the darkness , Lucifer is said to be an angel , The Devil was probably made up by the Church . . . .

Also , look at the words. .

Satan literally means 'the accuser' in old Hebrew , pointing to the fact that a Satanist lifestyle allows one to critically think ( there even is a thread around here concerning that . . .) . . .

'Lucifer' comes from 'lux' and 'ferre' , lux meaning light and ferre to bear . . . the 'bearer of the light' . . .

The Devil derives from the word diabolus , meaning 'little god' , diabolus being the diminutive form of 'deus' . . .


Probably just as a 'competition' to the god the Christians follow ( which I do not believe to be the true creator . . .)




So , why are these three expressions often used synonymously ?

As I've shown , there is a lot of difference . . . .

People should be aware of this . . .

Yours truly . .

E.D.


Edited by Eternal Darkness (07/03/18 05:43 AM)

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#116492 - 07/03/18 06:16 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 542
Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faiths, he is NOT the Satan found in the Abrahamic myths. Lucifer as a deity is not mentioned in the Christian bible, but the word 'Lucifer' is used adjectivally as a title. The biblical use of the word Lucifer is personifying the Morning Star of Phoenician/Canaan cosmology.

Lucifer the Roman-Greco deity is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., the Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. And the first mention is from Timaeus by Plato in 360 B.C.E. This Lucifer is also portrayed as a Lunar deity unlike his usual association with Venus.

The Hebrew translation had the word Helel in the place of Lucifer, and it was St. Jerome who replaced the word Helel with Lucifer. Helel means ‘shining one’. In 382 AD, Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the old Latin translation of the Bible. This task was completed sometime during the 5th century AD, and eventually, it was considered the official and definite Latin version of the Bible according to the Roman Catholic church. By the 13th century, it was considered the versio vulgate – the common translation.

Lucifer is not a fallen angel
Lucifer is not the Abrahamic Satan

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#116494 - 07/03/18 07:27 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Oxus]
Eternal Darkness Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 15
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faiths, he is NOT the Satan found in the Abrahamic myths.


The story of Lucifer in a cosmological context . . .

In the bginning the creator is said to have created all the angels . . .

Lucifer changed his thoughts and rebelled against the creator . . . .

He tried to destroy the creator's work and was thus banned from the Heavens by the other angels as 'troublemaker' . . .


He founded his own realm , the mythical Hades or 'Hell' . .

Thus far the story of Lucifer . .

Lucifer , throughout time , has always had a role as a 'sun god' in respective cultures , especially among the ancient Aztecs . . .

Lucifer is described as very vain , blinded by his own beauty , probably why he thought he was 'better' than the other angels . . . .

 Quote:
Lucifer as a deity is not mentioned in the Christian bible, but the word 'Lucifer' is used adjectivally as a title. The biblical use of the word Lucifer is personifying the Morning Star of Phoenician/Canaan cosmology.


See above . . .

 Quote:
Lucifer the Roman-Greco deity is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., the Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. And the first mention is from Timaeus by Plato in 360 B.C.E. This Lucifer is also portrayed as a Lunar deity unlike his usual association with Venus.


I guess it can be said that the fallen angel has been worshipped by various peoples throughout time as a deity , just under different names . . .


 Quote:
The Hebrew translation had the word Helel in the place of Lucifer, and it was St. Jerome who replaced the word Helel with Lucifer. Helel means ‘shining one’. In 382 AD, Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the old Latin translation of the Bible. This task was completed sometime during the 5th century AD, and eventually, it was considered the official and definite Latin version of the Bible according to the Roman Catholic church. By the 13th century, it was considered the versio vulgate – the common translation.


The Bible sure is one of the most worked on books in history . . . things have been taken out , added . . .
 Quote:
Lucifer is not a fallen angel


I think he is ( see my comments at the beginning ) . . . the 'cast out' or 'discarded' angel . . By the way , I , by that , do not rely on any religious doctrine but on real esotericism . . .

 Quote:
Lucifer is not the Abrahamic Satan


Agree


Edited by Eternal Darkness (07/03/18 07:31 AM)

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#116500 - 07/04/18 11:35 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 542
I see you neglected to read anything I posted. Stick your head back in the sand and embrace this ignorance.
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#116501 - 07/04/18 01:59 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3316
The difference is all in the mind.
Literally quite so.

The distinction depends on the value one mirrors to these concepts.
The un-intelligble will adhere to the thing they are not and crave to be. Those are Luciferians.

There are those who adhere to counter-cultural trends and vow to become the outcast they are not. Those are Satanists.

The clueless adhere to the classic idea the ever-present temptation of the gentleman devil. Those are the devil-worshippers.

Might I also ask to change the size of the pictures?
Its current format is quite annoying... especially since it concerns making a point which can be considered quite... simplistic.


Edited by Dimitri (07/04/18 02:01 PM)
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#116505 - 07/04/18 05:48 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dimitri]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 542
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
The difference is all in the mind.
Literally quite so.

The distinction depends on the value one mirrors to these concepts.
The un-intelligble will adhere to the thing they are not and crave to be. Those are Luciferians.

There are those who adhere to counter-cultural trends and vow to become the outcast they are not. Those are Satanists.

The clueless adhere to the classic idea the ever-present temptation of the gentleman devil. Those are the devil-worshippers.

Might I also ask to change the size of the pictures?
Its current format is quite annoying... especially since it concerns making a point which can be considered quite... simplistic.
I'll assume you self-identify as the Satanist since you failed to include a derogatory remark such as "un-intelligible" or "clueless"?

Let's see if you can match the color to the belief system!
1)Red = Pessimistic
2)Yellow = Optimistic
3)Brown = Nihilistic

A)Devil-Worship
B)Luciferianism
C)Satanism

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#116506 - 07/05/18 12:24 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Oxus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3316
If you can't stand the heat...

I'll admit to have warmer feelings for "Satanists".
At the very least they posses a more functional brain when compared to others.

Although it has his fair share of delusion which combines the detoriation of the other two.

On another note, I do not need to be inclusive or even respectful to thing I am not a part of. Fragile souls have no place here.
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#116507 - 07/05/18 03:45 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dimitri]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1384
Loc: CA
I'm sure there is lineage to differentiate all three or at least place them somewhere on a chronological timeline.

The same ideas differently expressed.

The common myth has a christian inflection, so absolute duality or else, where as Judaism would have a contemplative inflection of personally deciding where to align.  The story today has been telephoned into oblivion by The New Testament.

So lets go to 1000-500 BCE.

There's borrowing to consider with myth: Ahriman for Old Testament Satan is a good example. Continuity is irrelevant because they draw their characters from the same well of mashed myth  in a rather confined area. The myth passed like stories or Instagram posts in a pot of commerce.

Egypt to Iran is the same distance as Los Angeles to Portland Oregon. The cradle of all this shit existed in a rather small area with the limited resources clustered in an equally brief time period. Many occurring simultaneously.  

Akkad, Sumer, and Assyria had the pantheon shit going. Persia had the duality that influenced Judea and it becomes a big cluster fuck of belief and myth. There were also Babylonians, Phoenicians, and many other denonyms to disambiguate along the way.

** But I will make that distinction right now drawing on the myths and ideas most notable to me.

Satan: A metaphor for the way of all that is and ever will be. The hostile struggle as an engine of evolution and adaptation for the entire observable universe.

Lucifer: An archetype of rejecting rational self interest. Doing it the hard way. The epitome of principled rebellion.

The Devil: A marketing device and Mascot.


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#116508 - 07/05/18 05:05 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dimitri]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 542
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
If you can't stand the heat...

I'll admit to have warmer feelings for "Satanists".
At the very least they posses a more functional brain when compared to others.

Although it has his fair share of delusion which combines the detoriation of the other two.

On another note, I do not need to be inclusive or even respectful to thing I am not a part of. Fragile souls have no place here.
Hardly, Satanism in whatever capacity you adhere to, and according to your Satanic philosophy, seems to be nothing more than heterodoxy, which only works when one accepts what they are (blindlessly) 'rebelling' against. That shit should be over after puberty. Most of us grow up, I guess the remaining become members of various 'Satanic' organizations or spend their lives regurgitating their misanthropic bullshit here?

Who the fuck wants to remain what we are, but only more arrogant and nihilistic versions? To Become More than HUman seems like a valiant Path to choose.


Edited by Oxus (07/05/18 05:06 PM)

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#116509 - 07/06/18 12:17 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Oxus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3316
It serves its purpose.
People generally yap and complain away (as you do).
They serve as the soil to grow on. A mirror which reflects public image. It is of great importance when there is strive involved.

And to grow-up?
People learn to obscufate their persona.
At the very base, every person is just a big child.
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#116513 - 07/06/18 05:28 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dimitri]
Dark One Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 61
From what I understand Satan means 'opponent', adversary or stumbling block it does mean any one specific person or being. Jesus called one of his own disciplines a Satan at one point for example. Lucifer is a pagan/Roman god which means 'Light Bearer' or Enlightened One and was associated with Venus/the morning star. The Devil is essentially your classic horns and cloven feet dude looking something like this.





So what you have is our position regarding conventional RHP religions with Satan, our primary motivation of individual 'Enlightenment' as we see it with Lucifer and something akin to religious iconography with the Devil. So that's like an unholy Trinity we got going on there it's all very good.

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#116516 - 07/07/18 11:52 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Eternal Darkness Offline
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Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 15
@ Oxus
Don't know what makes you think I didn't read your posts but I did . .

Concerning the size of the pictures . . . Sorry but I have no influence on their size , just trying to demonstrate with fitting pictures here . . .

Some more words concerning that . .

Lucifer has always been associated with the light . . . the bright morning star , Venus etc . . .

So I suppose he could rather be regarded as a 'sun-god' . . .

Kind of more like a Pagan diety . .
'Satan' is always associated with the darkness , the supposed antithesis to Christ. .

Kind of like in the Star Wars series with the esoteric concept of a universal 'force' having both a light and a dark side . .



The light side standing for the supposed 'good' and the dark side for 'evil' . .




These movies draw hard on the real world . .
While Christ is always called the light of the light ( a lot of misdeeds have been done in the name of this supposed 'good' . .) , Satan is associated with the dark . .

Same in many other religions . .

In Buddhism , "their" Satan is called Mara , also portrayed as a dark being . .





Lucifer is said to be a real being ( the 'angel of light' . .) , like I said , the Devil seems to me like a man-made up figure . . .


Edited by Eternal Darkness (07/07/18 12:08 PM)

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#116517 - 07/07/18 02:24 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Dark One Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 61
The classic horned Devil comes from the mid to late Middle Ages though it very likely took some heavy inspiration from the classical Roman/pagan god pan. It doesn't really have anything much to do with the Satan of the Bible who wasn't particularly 'evil' even though he had a lot of worldly power being in control of all the worlds governments. That's what the Biblical Satan tempted Jesus with in the desert, essentially the Left Hand Path. Jesus would have been given the power to create an a Jewish state free from Roman pagan occupation. Instead he choose death on the cross. In our own version of events (not that we particularly have one but if we did) Jesus didn't return from the dead afterwards, so the story has a completely different angle.
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#116518 - 07/07/18 03:13 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dark One]
Eternal Darkness Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 15
 Originally Posted By: Dark One
The classic horned Devil comes from the mid to late Middle Ages though it very likely took some heavy inspiration from the classical Roman/pagan god pan.


The 'Devil' is a mythical creature . . Period . .

As for 'Pan' . .


Yep , there is a similarity . .

 Quote:
It doesn't really have anything much to do with the Satan of the Bible who wasn't particularly 'evil' even though he had a lot of worldly power being in control of all the worlds governments.


In the Bible , Satan was the god of darkness . . That's his true role . . The Israelites awaited their Messiah who was prophesised to be 'the light of the light' . . Naturally Satan would be his enemy . .

And it is my belief that the Illuminati ( New World Order . .) really follow Lucifer , the 'angel of light' . . So if anything , he would have the control over the world's governments . . .

Although 'Satan' having power over the world's governments in the Bible could still be interpreted as symbolical . .

Maybe what the Israelites tried to show with this claim was that the world's governments were living in darkness and that the Messiah would found the light . .

Maybe metaphorical . .

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities , against powers , against rulers of darkness of this world , against spiritual wickedness in high places . ."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZBmhk0lsEY

 Quote:
That's what the Biblical Satan tempted Jesus with in the desert, essentially the Left Hand Path.


'Left Hand Path' . . . The medieval Christians even took it so far that as long as they had influence in the West , even left-handed people were forced to retrain . .

They took the Bible literally . .


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#116521 - 07/08/18 04:55 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Dark One Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Eternal Darkness


The 'Devil' is a mythical creature . . Period . .



Christianity is a mythological religion and the Bible is a mythological text so it would have to be. They got the inspiration for Satan's appearance from earlier classical mythology such as pan and the Satyrs.




 Originally Posted By: Eternal Darkness
In the Bible , Satan was the god of darkness



The Satan of the Bible was the Arch Angel Samael he had a prominent role in the Book of Enoch. Essentially he was the cause of the Great Flood when he and a group of renegade angels decide to come to Earth and take human wives. Their produced hybrid human and angel children who became the giant abominations the Nephilim. The flood came about to eradicate the Nephilim bloodline. There's a rather interesting video game loosely based on this myth called the El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron the Nephilim kind of look like gigantic phallus's.



They cut the Book of Enoch out of the canonical Bible though so they cut out much of material regarding the Biblical Satan., You're really just left with his temptation of Jesus in the New Testament. You also have him in the Book of Job where he convinced God to test Jobs faith by making his life utterly shit but he was still working for God at that point. He wasn't ever a god of darkness to counter the Bibles God of light not that the God of the Torah is particularly light he just kind of 'is what he is' and you obey his Laws under pain of death. That still makes a bit more sense than the God of unconditional love of the New Testament because then you have the problem of evil. The Devil developed as way in which that could be explained but it wasn't something the Jews particularly needed though they did believe in 'unclean spirits' but they didn't have a leader.




 Originally Posted By: Eternal Darkness

And it is my belief that the Illuminati ( New World Order . .) really follow Lucifer , the 'angel of light' . . So if anything , he would have the control over the world's governments . . .



The Illuminati was only the 18th century version of Satanism so we're the Illuminati. We don't have actually have any 'control' over the worlds governments obviously but most of the worlds governments outside of the Islamic world are fully secularised these days. That's really all the Illuminati sought to achieve in their day they were an Enlightenment movement. The separation of Church and state the best example being the United States which was founded on this Enlightenment principal.



 Originally Posted By: Eternal Darkness

Maybe what the Israelites tried to show with this claim was that the world's governments were living in darkness and that the Messiah would found the light . .



The Jewish Messiah was supposed to bring about world peace through the conquering of the entire world with vast armies that's one of the prophecies Jesus didn't seem to fulfil, there is quite a lot he didn't fulfil really. Under this new Jewish Empire you would have a government commanded by God rather than Satan that was really the ideal.

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