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#116586 - 07/20/18 06:01 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dark One]
LunarVoid Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/20/18
Posts: 3
Loc: Finland
To my understanding, Satan is more of a title for the adversary to the Abrahamistic god, not necessarily a deity. It's more of a role one takes on, not a single being. Satan's "evilness" stems purely from the fact that he opposes the plans and actions of the Abrahamistic god. The association with darkness and evil is purely a cultural construction and has no real basis.

As for Lucifer, Oxus explained it well. I believe Lucifer refers to a deity from another pantheon entirely, and shouldn't be associated with Abrahamistic religions. I've heard the name Helel used before, I should probably look into it some more.

In my country, and in some other European countries, "devil" is more of a catch-all term for lesser demons, goblins, trickster spirits etc. The devil ("head devil") can be used to either refer to Satan, or to just any leader of said demons and other creatures of folklore.

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#116591 - 07/21/18 11:21 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: LunarVoid]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 948
Loc: Oregon
@LV: Should probably look into it some more. The terms are all used in modern times interchangeably, though when talking Lucifer, you're talking more of the biblical "morning star/fallen angel most beloved by almighty God himself."

I like to think its because even before God made man, Lucifer defied all by outright application of his own will, which after discovery, was cherished by him above all else, even in the face of all heaven and the glory of God's appreciation.

Perhaps it was Lucifer who inspired God to create man, and what better way to create something in God's own image than a creature who can choose and create for himself. Man, while often insecure, afraid and flock-minded, has also the capacity to transform individually into a beast of will, like no other.
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#117537 - 11/25/18 08:40 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Eternal Darkness Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 10
About Lucifer I have already said enough in this thread I think , concerning Satan . . .

In a way , Satanists have never claimed to 'worship a Satan' , like I said , Satanism is more like a mentality .

A mentality of freedom, mentality to think.

Various people have been deemed as 'Satanists' throughout history , without really being such . . .

Hitler , Stalin , Nero , Attila The Hun . . etc , etc . . .

( Hitler was actually even deemed as the supposed 'Anti-Christ' by many back then . . But , if you buy into this stuff , since the alleged 'Anti-Christ' is a figure "still to come/ still to be awaited at the end of days" , it couldn't have been a figure of the past . . . .)
Or at least they were 'viewed' as 'satanic' . . .

Concerning 'the Devil' . . . in the first pic in my original post , the Devil is a mythical being combining all 'bad' known to man . . . . lust , greed , hate , misanthropy etc etc . . . .

The fact that his portrayal drew hard on the Roman 'god' Pan seems to be a coincidence .

A biped based on a billy-goat , though ?

Hmmmmm. . .

In a way , that de-humanised 'the Devil' and gave him a mystical 'something'. . .

Somehow it is / was useful to the Church that the supposed 'ultimate bad' wasn't 'fully human' , but a 'spectre' instead . . .


Edited by Eternal Darkness (11/25/18 08:44 AM)

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#117543 - 11/28/18 10:20 AM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
Zeno Offline
member


Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 145
I have become jaded about all the debates about what is Satan etal. It becomes for me an individual concept, that they take to the table their own set of ideas to hang upon the concept of Satan.

People then come into conflict with each other over their unique ideas of what Satan, Lucifer, Devil etal is, and in the end, after wasting time and energy in argument, still fail to achieve any harmony between their differences, so it may as well save everyone pain to accept that we are all diverse in our ideas of what Satan is, then just follow our own life choices and deeds according to our own ideas of Satan.
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#117547 - 11/28/18 02:54 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Zeno]
Rob Taylor Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
There will always be plenty who are unable to do that though Zeno. No matter what they call themselves. I don't think there are that many free thinkers out there.
It's like the uniform of the non conformists, they love the title, but at the end of the day, they're just sheep.

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#117549 - 11/28/18 07:06 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Eternal Darkness]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 901
Loc: Nashville
 Quote:
Hitler was actually even deemed as the supposed 'Anti-Christ' by many back then . . But , if you buy into this stuff , since the alleged 'Anti-Christ' is a figure "still to come/ still to be awaited at the end of days" , it couldn't have been a figure of the past

Heh, reminds me of those pushing the idea that Ronald Wilson Reagan was the Antichrist. After all his first, middle and last name contained six characters - 666. Those believers grew silent as Reagan left office and succumbed to Alzheimer's.

These days one's Antichrist of choice is probably Donald Trump for Democrats, Nancy Pelosi for Republicans. I keep my Antichrist old school - Antichrist Superstar Marilyn Manson.

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#117550 - 11/28/18 07:17 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: William Wright]
Dark Light 444 Offline
member


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 226
Old school? Heh. I’ll take the 1976 Antichrist who’ll slowly rob you of your virgin soul....
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#117552 - 11/28/18 10:00 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dark Light 444]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 125
Loc: København, Denmark
Not sure if all souls are born virgin. Some may be incepted "incorruptible", assuming the existence of a soul. The soul may be just a biologic hologram reflecting the matrix humans have collectively created over what amounts to minutes in galactic time. 666 will soon no longer be an enigma because so many qualified candidates are just waiting behind the curtain.
I have a curious relationship with the number. It pops up rarely but when it does, definite synchronicities are in play. Oblique relationships between things become lucid.

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#117555 - 11/29/18 03:27 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dark Light 444]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 901
Loc: Nashville
The Omen is a good movie, but coming off the heels of a freakshow like The Exorcist it left me a bit underwhelmed. Damien needs more bells and whistles - a hockey mask perhaps, or a gloved hand with razors. Oh I know, what if he dressed like a clown and lurked in the sewer? Creepy!
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#117556 - 11/29/18 03:55 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: William Wright]
Dark Light 444 Offline
member


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 226
No. I’m talking about subliminally laced evil KISS magic. God Of Thunder is my Antichrist. A Gene Simmons blood dripper, penned oddly enough by his effeminate bandmate (Paul Stanley). You’d mentioned Marilyn Manson and being old school. Hold my chalice....
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K.I.S.S.

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#117569 - 11/29/18 07:39 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Dark Light 444]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 901
Loc: Nashville
Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I'm somewhat down with KISS. Brilliant in terms of marketing and image. Not as impressed with their music, although I absolutely love "Detroit Rock City." I also love "New York Groove" on Ace's solo album.

The Antichrist actually came one year later in 1977: John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever. Truly the embodiment of evil.

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#117570 - 11/29/18 08:50 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: William Wright]
Rob Taylor Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
Na. Not a KISS man. More Maiden for me. Run silent run deep, number of the beast. Charlotte the harlot. Absolute classics!
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#117580 - 11/30/18 01:59 PM Re: Satan / Lucifer / the Devil ? [Re: Rob Taylor]
Dark Light 444 Offline
member


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 226
Iron Maiden has their merits. To be fair, it was KISS and their uncompromising juggernaut that completely controlled me from an early childhood. Seeing the bloody face of Gene Simmons as a kid in the early 70’s opened me up to the dark side. It wasn’t until I grew older that I learned many things about LBM from studying KISS through interviews and press conferences, without knowing what I was learning all the while. Most propagandized band of all time.
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