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#11663 - 09/20/08 06:23 PM About Rituals
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
I was wondering about it... Satanism includes magic practicing, through rituals. But if someone really feels his own vision of life in Satanic philosophy, and he thinks that all that magic stuff is possible (science doesn't know everything, and the power of subconscient truly is something not to take easy), by converting the bioelectric energy generated by emotions to a force you can use to act on people's mind (or whatever, in the Satanic Bible LaVey deals with making items fly, although he states that it would require a really impressive magic energy), so if someone is "philosophically Satanist", doesn't reject the idea of magic, but hasn't enough confidence in it to truly believe in it, can he consider himself as a Satanist ?

As far as I know, Satanists don't HAVE TO practice magic. Are there here some people who call themselves Satanists, accept the idea of magic but never performed rituals ?

NB : Of course, that "someone" here is me. I truly trust in humans' hidden potential, and can accept the idea of magic abilities using the power of self-persuasion, but can't just believe in everything LaVey wrote about it without wondering about it. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm not convicted he's right. I'd like people here to help me see clearer about this.

Thanks by advance for answers (if any ;\) )
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#11686 - 09/21/08 08:05 AM Re: About Rituals [Re: Impius]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
Well, after thinking about it, I guess that was stupid.

I'm sorry for starting an useless thread without thinking enough before, I promise it won't happen again. May moderators delete it ?
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#11701 - 09/21/08 03:44 PM Re: About Rituals [Re: Impius]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Being someone who thinks is not stupid in any way in my book... I will write a better response to this post as soon as I have more time...

I hope it is not deleted before I can properly respond, what with so much of the garbage that is accepted forum wide...

~T~
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#11703 - 09/21/08 04:25 PM Re: About Rituals [Re: ta2zz]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
Thanks for your answer.

That's not my thinking which is stupid to me, but the fact I posted here to ask for opinions whereas it's totally subjective.

And there's already another thread about forumers' opinion about ritual magic (I've even posted in now ), so this is really useless.
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#11709 - 09/21/08 07:11 PM Re: About Rituals [Re: Impius]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
There are some people on this forum who believe things like that.

I don't, though... the idea of bio-energy, odic force, whatever you call it, has absolutely no scientific foundation. Nor does the alleged "magickal control" thereof return results consistent or reliable enough to be considered useful.

LaVey said that while this might be possible, it would be much more effective to use more practical, material means to achieve your ends. Or something like that. He stressed the psychological aspects of ritual more than any literal supernatural effect.
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#11724 - 09/22/08 07:50 AM Re: About Rituals [Re: The Zebu]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
LaVey said that while this might be possible, it would be much more effective to use more practical, material means to achieve your ends. Or something like that. He stressed the psychological aspects of ritual more than any literal supernatural effect.


Well, when I read TSB it didn't look like this to me, I had the feeling LaVey definately believed in it... which was surprising to me since Satanism is quite a logic (and even skeptic) philosophy. I only read TSB though, maybe he moderated his opinion in another writing.

The extract which made me doubt was the following (re-traducted from french to english by me so maybe it won't be perfect) : "when faith and religious fervour make bloody scars appear on one's body, approximately like the Christ's ones, it's called stigmatas. These scars are the result of compassion with high emotionnal violence." And here he goes comparing this to the power of satanic destruction rituals. But stigmatas are the result of an hysteria process, and if one's subconscient state can alter his body, he NEVER can alter someone else's, it seems pretty logic to me...

I guess an important factor about it is the time... In 60's it may have been easier to believe in mentalism than nowadays. However, Satanism is a guideline... its philosophy suits me perfectly, so I don't care whether LaVey believed in mentalism or not, personnally I don't, and will still keep calling myself Satanist. In every religion, there are practisers and non-practisers, after all

As for the fact that rituals may act as subconscient self-persuasion, to put you in good state in order to achieve what you desire, I do believe in this, it's a scientifically well-known phenomen \:\) and it rules !
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#12950 - 10/20/08 05:02 PM Re: About Rituals [Re: Impius]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
My philosophy is that, Greater Magic is meant as a theatrical and emotional experience. Self transformative psychodrama, a tool for the release of emotions that may be causing hinderence from pursuit of indulgence.
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#12962 - 10/20/08 06:50 PM Re: About Rituals [Re: Third-Side]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
I, for myself, am very confident in what you referred to as hidden human potential. However, I do not pretend to know how to harness, control, or release said powers. Maybe I would experiment if I heard of one that sounded legit. So many I hear of require calling on some sort of spirit or outside force which doesn't quite jive with me, as I believe the power to control the outside comes from within. Ask, for example, any neurosurgeon and they will tell you we aren't even scaping the surface. Basically, we don't know shit about ourselves. Until then, I do what I know. The Captain of a ship I was on used to allways say "Don't tell me, show me."
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