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#119866 - 08/21/19 10:46 AM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: Dimitri]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 740
There are unfortunately some black women who don't realize that so-called "generational curse structures have been inverted. When I'm discussing hopeful things with a family member we are investing in hope honesty and strength, and God rewards that.

A black man out front may be someone you think is there too intimidate me, but is actually respectful of my boldness, honesty and humanity, and is hoping secretly that the black women would look to me as an example and invest in reconciling with their men, or try to avoid that responsibility and hoping we fail, thus investing curse energy on themselves by avoiding being human and responsible for theiren and nurturing them instead of abandoning them and showing through their actions that they believe that they are hopeless.

Believe you deserve grace and love and work for it in your community, or believe you don't.

Either way, God will agree with you.

My self interest is only in speaking this truth out loud so that I'm not holding your salvation hostage by secrecy

My conscience is clean. And I hope for the best


Edited by samowens84 (08/21/19 10:47 AM)

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#119867 - 08/21/19 10:55 AM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: samowens84]
Dark Light 444 Offline
member


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 402
Praise Jesus. Sniff.
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K.I.S.S.

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#119868 - 08/21/19 01:42 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: samowens84]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3410
Yeah. You are an idiot.
And I am being most sincere here.

The entire premise of your argument hinges on "some".
As in "theoretical", as in "assumed".

You hold no truths or facts.
Merely opinion.
Only that.
Remember that.
Always.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#119870 - 08/21/19 06:15 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: samowens84]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1664
Loc: Ca
While this a hell of a glass house for me to throw a stone in, you seem scattered and disturbed and appear to be making bizarre statements and deteriorating in lucidity. 

Remember, the pigeons only move when you shoot at the little girl...

 Quote:
A black man out front may be someone you think is there too intimidate me, but is actually respectful of my boldness, honesty and humanity, and is hoping secretly that the black women would look to me as an example and invest in reconciling with their men...


Lol. What are you from Minnesota?

It's like you look at black people like A Mutual of Omaha narrator.

Here we are now in Detroit. You'll notice how the males will congregate in the front of one the few remaining liquor wells on the block. Being firmly south of 10 mile road we are in the land that the world forgot. 

Look as white boy from Ann Arbor approaches to hydrate at the local well. He has strayed far outside his home territory.

This is the leader of this gang, notice the gold vestments and red markings indicates these are a subclassification of gansta called 'bloods'. He see's the blue of the hat and the moon reflecting of his melanin free skin. A confrontation approaches.

The Alpha male postures himself, notice how he puffs out his chest and looks down his nose at the invader.  The first warning cry, "youll notice the repetitious use of a single two syllable vocalization."

The white male freezes, he doesn't know what to do. Startled, he tries to respond in kind but fails to intimidate. He tries to understand the aggressor, but he is now confronted by others. He starts to stutter and attempts to diffuse the situation, this  response is common with ineffectual white males in hostile territory.

They approach.  He urinates on himself as an involuntary self defense act.  Ahhh, there it is, he is offering his iPhone 10, and all the money in his wallet if they don't hurt him.  The gang accepts, and also take his shoes or "kicks" as they are called by local language.

He should have fed in Deerborne.


Seriously though, what the fuck are you talking about?
_________________________
Spiritual : Abstraction ::

D. Scientific : Quod erat demonstrandum

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#121105 - 12/21/19 02:55 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: Dimitri]
Fringe Wizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/21/19
Posts: 7
Those who think the definition of a species are "they can't mate and produce viable (fertile) offspring" are wrong. Otherwise sheeps and goats are the same species, most Cichlids are supposedly one species, etc. with many cases of what are recognized as different species and sometimes even different genus being able to mate and produce offspring that are themselves fertile.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep%E2%80%93goat_hybrid

So those who say because blacks and whites can reproduce and the offspring of them can reproduce they are one species... you are wrong as concerns taxonomy.

To give an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis

Probably every species in here can be crossed and produce fertile hybrids. This does not happen in nature but it does in the aquarium, an artificial environment.

When a previous poster mentioned the different human races were originally separate and the circumstances we are in now living beside one another is artificial, it makes me think of Cichlids kept together in an aquarium.

There is likely greater genetic distance between Africans and Europeans than many of what are recognized as separate species by taxonomy. I would also like to see how great the genetic distance is between the various archaic hominids and have that compared. Neanderthal etc.

However when digging up old human skeletons from millions of years ago there is no controversy so it seems every time it happens a new species is declared. With the various human races today there is a concerted effort to deny biological differences and to prevent any measures of racial conservation.

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#121106 - 12/21/19 05:27 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: Fringe Wizard]
XiaoGui17 Online
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1417
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
Those who think the definition of a species are "they can't mate and produce viable (fertile) offspring" are wrong.
If you meant, "They can mate and produce fertile offspring," then that is literally the definition of the term "species."

 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
Otherwise sheeps and goats are the same species, most Cichlids are supposedly one species, etc. with many cases of what are recognized as different species and sometimes even different genus being able to mate and produce offspring that are themselves fertile.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep%E2%80%93goat_hybrid
Your own link said the overwhelming majority of sheep-goat hybrids aren't even born alive, much less becoming fertile as adults.

While there might be the occasional fluke in inter-species breeding, it's safe to say any two groups that can consistently produce fertile offspring are of the same species. No, sheep and goats do not meet that definition.

 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
So those who say because blacks and whites can reproduce and the offspring of them can reproduce they are one species... you are wrong as concerns taxonomy.
Taxonomy didn't have any scientific basis when it was first developed. It was based on superficial appearance. Two different sexes of the same species might have been categorized as separate species for no other reason than sexual dimorphism combined with ignorance. Our understanding of what constitutes a "species" has become refined since we developed an understanding of genetics.

 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
To give an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis

Probably every species in here can be crossed and produce fertile hybrids. This does not happen in nature but it does in the aquarium, an artificial environment.

When a previous poster mentioned the different human races were originally separate and the circumstances we are in now living beside one another is artificial, it makes me think of Cichlids kept together in an aquarium.
So? What does artificial proximity have to do with the scientific definition of "species"?

 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
However when digging up old human skeletons from millions of years ago there is no controversy so it seems every time it happens a new species is declared. With the various human races today there is a concerted effort to deny biological differences and to prevent any measures of racial conservation.
Since we have evidence that interbreeding between certain hominids eventually became impossible, yes.

Just as there was more of a time lapse between the stegosaurus and the T. rex than between the T. rex and man,


...so there's far more of a morphological and genetic gap between the old species of hominid fossils than there is between modern races of homo sapiens.

That's not to deny the biological and morphological differences between the living races of humans. But to say said races aren't the same species is to cling to an outdated and unscientific understanding of what a species entails.
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I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side

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#121107 - 12/21/19 08:29 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: Fringe Wizard]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1664
Loc: Ca
 Quote:
There is likely greater genetic distance between Africans and Europeans than many of what are recognized as separate species by taxonomy.


What, melanin? Knotty dreads?

There is such an insignificant difference it can be lost (or heavily diluted) in one generation.

I once asked google what the opposite of an albino was:



Melaninism was my answer. What started out as wanting to see the blackest person ever ended with learning about nigga squirrels.



But apart from from things that became recessive away from the desert belt and the sun there is not much difference. 

People in Ethiopia are really really black and people in Sweden are really really white.  But if you go into the arctic circle you transition to leathery Inuit characteristics which can be drawn back across the land bridge to Mongolia. Even the language sounds similar.



In fact the greatest points of genetic difference is the 2% Neaderthal DNA in Europeans and Asians and 6% Denisovan DNA in Polynesian/Melanesian. Africans are actually the purest Homo sapiens in that respect.

For fun the following make some funny genetically valid chimeras. Most are mix and match.

Horse - Donkey - Zebra

Elk - Moose - Deer - Reindeer - Antelope

Brown Bear - Black Bear - Grizzly Bear - Polar Bear (Most common wild land hybrids)

Whales - Dolphins - Porpoise - Narwhal

* A Narwhal/Whale hybrid naturally occurred

Lion - Tiger - Jaguar - Cheetah - Leopard - Mountain Lion - Ocelot - Bobcat - Lynx - *Domestic Cats

* = More likely to be eaten, but they can make hybrids.

Wolf - Coyote - Dingo - Jackals - Domestic Dog

Human - Chimpanzee (Not that anyone's tried it...)

And many many more I could spend a while listing.
_________________________
Spiritual : Abstraction ::

D. Scientific : Quod erat demonstrandum

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#121108 - 12/21/19 08:43 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: CanisMachina42]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 362
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
It seems contrary to nature that Africans would have turned soot black. Black absorbs more rays and heat instead of reflecting it, making a scorched habitat even more unbearable. I am white but what am I reflecting? The skies are often grey.
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#121109 - 12/21/19 10:35 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: XiaoGui17]
Fringe Wizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/21/19
Posts: 7
I'm not going to make this post more elaborate than it has to be to make my point.

The fact is, if your definition of a species is "they can not cross and produce fertile offspring" you have to eliminate a tremendous amount of different species now and this Earth should be regarded as having only a fraction of the number of species it is currently considered to have. Look in pretty much any genus and usually the different species listed under any given genus can be crossed and produce fertile offspring.

Even if your definition is adjusted to "they don't readily cross and produce fertile offspring" you still have to pretty much declare a ton of different species in each genus to be all one species because they often do in artificial environments or times of stress and habitat depletion end up crossbreeding.

I would also like to add that if you do regard the different human races as merely equivalent with a subspecies that biological conservation ethics dictates in every circumstance I've ever seen that efforts should be taken to prevent the accidental crossbreeding of subspecies. There have been cases of different subspecies of wolves mixing due to their habitats coming together and conservationists frown on it.

Consider this article: http://labs.russell.wisc.edu/peery/files/2011/12/29.-Hybridization-and-Genetic-Extinction.pdf

Note it talks about how hybridization has wiped out about 50% of Cichlid species (yes, I have studied these fish a lot, and applied the principles of nature to humans).

In short I have two points I want understood and acknowledged:

1. The definition of a species as "they can not [readily] cross and produce fertile offspring" eliminates most of the diversity of species on this planet. Suddenly we have far less species.
2. Regardless of whether we're speaking of a genus, a species, a subpsecies, or a breed; the push to mix these together is an attack on biological diversity and contrary to conservation ethics.

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#121110 - 12/22/19 01:41 AM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: Fringe Wizard]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1664
Loc: Ca
Race equivalent to subspecies is debatable.

When I think subspecies I think Bengal vs. Siberian Tiger, and just because they are different colors doesn't make it equivocal either.

For example how does one truly subdivide everything?

The amount of adaptive variation is too gradient and diverse to differentiate races from one another.

Like European White vs South American White? Italian Brown vs Mexican brown? They're both that way via different mechanisms. One from European colonialism or immigration during WWII.

Had they arrived at that color through the same mechanism. But some moved away from the sun to the North and went strait to white. Some went east through the desert/savannah belt (depending on earth's tilt) which made the change less abrupt. With asians it was through India and a trek through olive skin first.

The same gradient differences you see in language you see in race.

You would have as many subspecies as language dialects.

Thought Experiment:

What if a mad scientist took control of a country and had a full array of genetics to work with?

If he decided to make minis he would selectively breed proportional dwarves. If he wanted them ginger, he would favor redheaded dwarves.  Call 'em "Gingarves"

Suppose he wanted to race people. He could find long lanky barefoot Eritrean and breed them for speed, especially cheetah like bursts. "Eritrean Sprinters" They could be like greyhounds.

Those are just two, but the possibilities are endless.

If you wanted exotic features you could prefer syndactyly and a vestigial tail. You could even combine that with ocular albino traits in petite asians.

Webbed footed asians with pigmentless eyes and stubby tails, which could be selectively grown longer. What would you call them?
_________________________
Spiritual : Abstraction ::

D. Scientific : Quod erat demonstrandum

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#121111 - 12/22/19 11:47 AM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: CanisMachina42]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 362
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
Hybridization in the wild may be the ecology's last attempts at survival where successful. Human attempts at it buy time but for an artificial diversity.

Will we need to tap into the Svalbard doomsday vault sooner than expected?

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#121112 - 12/22/19 12:34 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: CanisMachina42]
Fringe Wizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/21/19
Posts: 7
>The amount of adaptive variation is too gradient and diverse to differentiate races from one another.

There exist these gradients among non-human species and we readily differentiate them.

Also I agree with the language dialects. In Europe there are 81 recognized ethnic groups and in Africa there's thousands. I believe we can consider these all different subspecies. I also think the idea that we're a planet of hundreds or thousands of different human species is a better way to view the world than to pretend there is only one variety of human. Forget about traveling to distant stars to find other sentient life; Earth is full of it already.

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#121113 - 12/22/19 12:44 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: Fringe Wizard]
XiaoGui17 Online
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1417
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
I would also like to add that if you do regard the different human races as merely equivalent with a subspecies...


 Originally Posted By: Fringe Wizard
In short I have two points I want understood and acknowledged:
1. The definition of a species as "they can not [readily] cross and produce fertile offspring" eliminates most of the diversity of species on this planet. Suddenly we have far less species.
2. Regardless of whether we're speaking of a genus, a species, a subpsecies, or a breed; the push to mix these together is an attack on biological diversity and contrary to conservation ethics.
I understand the points you're trying to make. I just think they're both dumb.

1. "If X were the case, it would change our understanding of science" does not prove X false. The whole point of the scientific method is that our understanding of science changes in light of new data.

2. Species and subspecies have been going extinct since time immemorial. It's a relatively recent phenomenon that humans started wringing their hands over what's a perfectly natural process.

The planet only has the capacity to sustain so many critters. If every subspecies that ever lived were preserved, it'd quickly exceed that capacity and someone would have to go.

We can't preserve everything and it's folly to try.
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I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side

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#121114 - 12/22/19 12:49 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: aeon6]
Fringe Wizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/21/19
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Hybridization in the wild may be the ecology's last attempts at survival where successful. Human attempts at it buy time but for an artificial diversity.

Will we need to tap into the Svalbard doomsday vault sooner than expected?


This part is very moving and a testament to the need for biological conservation:

You donít need to look far to discover the sacrifices made to keep these kernels of reproduction safe. One of the most historically significant deposits of seeds inside the vault comes from a collection in St. Petersburgís Vavilov Research Institute, which originates from one of the first collections in the world. During the siege of Leningrad, about a dozen scientists barricaded themselves in the room containing the seeds in order to protect them from hungry citizens and the surrounding German army.

As the siege dragged on, a number of them eventually died from starvation. Despite being surrounded by seeds and plant material, they steadfastly refused to save themselves by eating any of it, such was their conviction about the importance of the seeds to aid Russiaís recovery after war and to help protect the future of humankind. One of the scientists, Dmitri Ivanov, is said to have died surrounded by bags of rice.

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#121115 - 12/22/19 12:52 PM Re: Internalized racism of white women [Re: XiaoGui17]
Fringe Wizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/21/19
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
2. Species and subspecies have been going extinct since time immemorial. It's a relatively recent phenomenon that humans started wringing their hands over what's a perfectly natural process.

The planet only has the capacity to sustain so many critters. If every subspecies that ever lived were preserved, it'd quickly exceed that capacity and someone would have to go.

We can't preserve everything and it's folly to try.


So you think seed banks and all the various conservation efforts of plants and animals are worthless? Extinction happens naturally but the rate of extinction is considered to be much higher than the background rate right now. That should be cause for concern.

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