Page 5 of 8 « First<34567>Last »
Topic Options
#120222 - 09/17/19 11:05 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Drebin001 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/19
Posts: 27
Loc: Cleveland, OH, USA
If people learn how to manipulate a broken system, then more power to them. If the system needs reform, then these people might be inherently obstructing the reformation of that system, so that's another take.

However, all being said and done, I don't really care if someone manipulates the government for welfare money. It doesn't affect my life in any direct way. I'll survive, regardless.
_________________________
Wherever you go, there you are.

Top
#120228 - 09/17/19 06:19 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Drebin001]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1826
Loc: New York
The problem is not with a few individuals manipulating the welfare system to receive benefits, but that the government is making it more attractive and easier to get on benefits, as well as encouraging the immigration of people from outside of the USA who will end up on the welfare system. A few thousand people milking the system might not affect us, but when millions of people from other countries get on it, it might be a different story.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#120249 - 09/19/19 03:08 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Asmedious]
Drebin001 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/19
Posts: 27
Loc: Cleveland, OH, USA
Well, if your problem is with the system itself. Good luck with changing that. If you care to fight that fight, being a political activist, then more power to you. I have little interest in that, personally.

I'm here for a short amount of time, maybe 100 years if I'm very lucky. I don't care to spend the better part of my days climbing uphill in a mudslide.
_________________________
Wherever you go, there you are.

Top
#120256 - 09/20/19 12:58 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Asmedious]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 196
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
The problem is not with a few individuals manipulating the welfare system to receive benefits, but that the government is making it more attractive and easier to get on benefits, as well as encouraging the immigration of people from outside of the USA who will end up on the welfare system. A few thousand people milking the system might not affect us, but when millions of people from other countries get on it, it might be a different story.



The majority of USA dole bludgers are rural WASPs whose ancestors came to North America centuries ago and spoke English (well, some dialect thereof) as their native tongue. The real life typical "welfare queen" has very pale skin and became a mom for the first time after dropping out of school as a young teen, at the demand of their parents.

They are habitually unemployable because they can't read at even the 8th grade level, can't get a driver's license (which is a must have in rural areas where there is no PT), often have behavioral (they have criminal records) and/or addiction issues, and are as stoopid as can be without being medically developmentally disabled.

Their numbers are slowly, but steadily, increasing since the women have 3-5 children -- more than the average. And their generations are closer together: women become grannies before age 35.

Of course the propagandists who hype on the vast numbers of foreigners coming here to sponge off of the tax base have no issues with the true recipients of multi-generational welfare getting all that they do.
_________________________
Only Man cares for Man; the Universe doesn't give a shit. -- Marcelo Ramos Motta

Top
#120276 - 09/22/19 01:50 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 333
Loc: København, Denmark
The elephant-in-the-room crisis has meant that the word "capitalism", usually disguised under some coy pseudonym as "the modern age/ industrialism/ the West", has become current once more. You can tell that the capitalist system is in trouble when people start talking more about capitalism. It indicates that the system has ceased to be as natural as the air we breathe, and can be seen instead as the historical rather than recent phenomenon that it is. Whatever was born can always die, which is why social systems like to present themselves as immortal.

As a bout of dengue fever makes you newly aware of your body, so a form of social life can be perceived for what it is when it begins to break down. Ambitious as Marx was, he never foresaw the dismal demographic you pointed out.

Top
#120279 - 09/22/19 06:40 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2142
Loc: Poland
It could be the matter of tribal mentality. A nation is a modern tribe. People are more likely to tolerate the members of their own nation milking the welfare than foreigners, who are often perceived as the Other. And even if it pisses them off, people regard it as somewhat natural that the state helps its less lucky citizens, especially if the children are involved. Even if the mother is perceived as a lazy parasite, children are thought not to be guilty of the mother's actions and therefore eligible for help. Not sure how it is in the US, but here in Poland there is a considerable number of people who think that the society should take care of all of its children regardless of their parents' behavior. Because you know... all children are ours. But it only refers to Polish children.
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#120282 - 09/22/19 02:45 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 691
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
The elephant-in-the-room crisis has meant that the word "capitalism", usually disguised under some coy pseudonym as "the modern age/ industrialism/ the West", has become current once more. You can tell that the capitalist system is in trouble when people start talking more about capitalism. It indicates that the system has ceased to be as natural as the air we breathe, and can be seen instead as the historical rather than recent phenomenon that it is. Whatever was born can always die, which is why social systems like to present themselves as immortal.

As a bout of dengue fever makes you newly aware of your body, so a form of social life can be perceived for what it is when it begins to break down. Ambitious as Marx was, he never foresaw the dismal demographic you pointed out.


Everything has a natural element to it.

The gem in every system is immortal as wisdom per se. But the structure built on a genuine gem must be dynamic in order to survive. Often a structure may have collapsed in history only because the gem the system depended was founded on the false assumption that it had to crowd out other gems of wisdom in order to prop up an unstable structure that seemed to depend on fractured wisdom by it's very nature couldn't sustain itself.

The history of the world until recently had been built on passing one incomplete bit of wisdom just to substitute one unstable structure with another.

As wisdom has become more harmonized, as it generally is now, though some might be reluctant to admit it, I find myself in partial agreement with Marx.

The state will dissolve away as nature is evolving into a more natural harmonious society.

My joke on communism is that many self proclaimed "communists" had advocated the same unnatural substitution of one incomplete thought structure gem with another while seeming to be oblivious to the irony.

Top
#120287 - 09/22/19 07:00 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1362
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
The majority of USA dole bludgers are rural WASPs whose ancestors came to North America centuries ago and spoke English (well, some dialect thereof) as their native tongue. The real life typical "welfare queen" has very pale skin and became a mom for the first time after dropping out of school as a young teen, at the demand of their parents.
...
Of course the propagandists who hype on the vast numbers of foreigners coming here to sponge off of the tax base have no issues with the true recipients of multi-generational welfare getting all that they do.
Yes and no.

I dealt with welfare recipients in the panhandle. In cities like Amarillo and Lubbock, there was a roughly even split of 1/3 whites, 1/3 blacks, and 1/3 Hispanics on the dole. Asian, Middle Eastern, and African (immigrant, not black American) recipients were a relative rarity, despite there being a remarkably high number of refugees in the panhandle. The more podunk, far-flung little towns that had all of one Dairy Queen, one gas station, and a population in the triple digits were either overwhelmingly white as Wonderbread, half-and-half, or practically Mexican enclaves.

Many of the Hispanic recipients were from families that used the border as a revolving door. There's a mottled gradient of culture and race from Mexico up to the US. The border is there only in theory.

The thirteen-year-old rural brides were very common among both whites and Hispanics. There really wasn't much difference, in practice.

If a majority of welfare recipients are white, it's because a majority of the population is white. But whites make up a lower percentage of the dole than they do of the general population. So yes, those entrenched in the welfare system are often natural-born American citizens. But blacks and (often undocumented) Hispanics were disproportionately represented among them.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#120313 - 09/26/19 09:33 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Czereda]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 146
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Agreed. While I do also like National Socialism having grown up a white South African and also on a different side of history than most, I think it did have flaws.

National Socialism as it was didn't work then, and can't work now. It can be evolved though. And to some extent it's becoming apparent that it will reemerge soon, Italy is a great example of how Fascism is becoming popular again.


I don't agree that Hitler was crazy though. I hardly think anybody that doesn't share your opinions qualify as crazy. This isn't the Dark Ages.
_________________________
"0" is the past, "1" is the future. "Now" is nowhere.

Top
#120314 - 09/26/19 09:35 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 146
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17

If a majority of welfare recipients are white, it's because a majority of the population is white. But whites make up a lower percentage of the dole than they do of the general population. So yes, those entrenched in the welfare system are often natural-born American citizens. But blacks and (often undocumented) Hispanics were disproportionately represented among them.


Somehow this logic always seems to escape low IQ individuals. Well said.


Edited by Ubermensch23 (09/26/19 09:37 AM)
_________________________
"0" is the past, "1" is the future. "Now" is nowhere.

Top
#120322 - 09/27/19 12:36 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Ubermensch23]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 333
Loc: København, Denmark
Welfare, the bad word in america because it supports a largese underclass with orbiting children, is an entirely different entitlement in different lands. Find yourself in a utopia, quest is done.
Top
#120327 - 09/27/19 04:56 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1362
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Welfare, the bad word in america because it supports a largese underclass with orbiting children, is an entirely different entitlement in different lands. Find yourself in a utopia, quest is done.
Well yeah, if you live in a country that routinely deports people for being on the dole, I imagine it can afford to be fairly generous with its own citizens.

Unfortunately, being on the dole is not grounds for deportation in the US, even if you aren't a citizen. Someone should tell Trump to get on that.

It always makes me laugh when American progs say we should follow the policies of Nordic countries. They have a very selective, idealized understanding of what those policies are.

When I spoke of the impracticality of the entire energy grid being 100% renewables, someone touted Sweden as a prime example of a nation that had a high percentage of its electrical energy from wind. He shut up when I pointed out that Texas was even higher...
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#120335 - 09/28/19 01:14 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1613
Loc: Ca
 Originally Posted By: XG
Well yeah, if you live in a country that routinely deports people for being on the dole, I imagine it can afford to be fairly generous with its own citizens.

Unfortunately, being on the dole is not grounds for deportation in the US, even if you aren't a citizen. Someone should tell Trump to get on that.

It always makes me laugh when American progs say we should follow the policies of Nordic countries. They have a very selective, idealized understanding of what those policies are.


Collective bargaining, unionized workforce? Value added tax? As long as there is a Republican party that would never happen. 

This country can't even get mostly immigrant rideshare drivers to want to unionize in California and be considered employees. 

Good luck with anything Nordic.

 Quote:

When I spoke of the impracticality of the entire energy grid being 100% renewables, someone touted Sweden as a prime example of a nation that had a high percentage of its electrical energy from wind. He shut up when I pointed out that Texas was even higher...


Anti-Green Tirade begin:

Renewable energy is such fucking bullshit. Like with Iceland you either have natural resources to do it (geothermal) or want trade in it (China).

https://www.clickenergy.com.au/news-blog/12-countries-leading-the-way-in-renewable-energy/

 Originally Posted By: 12-countries-leading-the-way-in-renewable-energy


Costa Rica

Because of its small size (just 4.9 million people) and unique geography (67 volcanoes), Costa Rica is able to meet a large part of its energy needs from hydroelectric, geothermal, solar, and wind sources. The country aims to be completely carbon-neutral by the year 2021 and has already achieved some impressive results, running on 100% renewable energy for more than two months twice in the last two years

China

They may be the world’s largest polluter, but China is also the world’s biggest investor in renewable energy, with huge investment levels both at home and overseas.  China now owns: five of the world’s six largest solar-module manufacturing firms; the largest wind-turbine manufacturer; the world’s largest lithium ion manufacturer; and the world’s largest electricity utility. China is fully committed to reducing fossil fuel consumption and with its heavily polluted cities has every incentive for doing so.


That last one, China, is the biggest tell of all. They make all the solar panels, build the hybrid batteries, and are probably buying up all the platinum and iridium they can to position themselves to be leader in hydrogen electrolysis.

And that is the future, the glorious capitalist future of Gr€€n energy. Chinese wholesale.

Renewable energy to provide the massive power requirement needed to remove the hydrogen from water to power the fuel cells to replace internal combustion engines, along with lithium ion batteries, and all associated mining and manufacturing operations of not only lithium, but zinc, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, nickel, copper, and pretty much every transition metal.

But it's all about carbon and methane, and those horrible greenhouse gasses.

Which is total bullshit IMO, and here is why.

There are positive feedback loops and negative feedback loops.

Increases in CO2, NO2, and CH4 and other non-condensable gasses increase the temperature increasing the water vapor, further increasing the temperature...  but then the increases in water vapor increases the amount of cloud formation. Increased cloud cover then lowers the amount of sunlight which cools the temperature. The increases in atmospheric non-condensable gasses are the architects of ice ages following a significant warming event. The planet melts and freezes continuously.

And sorry once mindful hybrid driver, earth is no where near the maximum greenhouse related historical high temperature (Not even close) and the ocean is no where near as deoxygenated as it was after a period of flood volcanism life on this planet survived.

And in the most recent 6% of its existence too.

At the Permian-triassic line (250 million years ago) the Siberian Traps were formed. These are MASSIVE fucking flood basalt deposits (about the size of Brazil) that in an extremely protracted eruption released more methane and greenhouse gasses than all industrialized human civilizations together over their entire history could produce, and raised the sea temperature to 104 degrees, completely starved it of oxygen, and killed 95% of life. 

That said.

All you green ecotards are wallets with global concern and no concept of this planet's more recent geological history. 

Subsidies and slushy kickbacks of pork barrel commerce assures contracts to provide the panels to give you the tax rebate.

And Oklahomans are fine getting more earthquakes than San Francisco.

Anti-green tirade End.

_________________________
32.65
-117.12
Sea level
11:59 PM Dec 31st, 2019
Sleeping

Top
#120336 - 09/28/19 04:13 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 146
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17


It always makes me laugh when American progs say we should follow the policies of Nordic countries. They have a very selective, idealized understanding of what those policies are.

When I spoke of the impracticality of the entire energy grid being 100% renewables, someone touted Sweden as a prime example of a nation that had a high percentage of its electrical energy from wind. He shut up when I pointed out that Texas was even higher...


They also never seem to mention that Nordic countries are largely homogeneous societies. And Sweden's recent aversion to the welfare state coincides with mass migration.

It's fine to learn from other economic models, as long as you don't nitpick based on your political ideology.
_________________________
"0" is the past, "1" is the future. "Now" is nowhere.

Top
#120340 - 09/28/19 10:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Ubermensch23]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1362
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Ubermensch23
It's fine to learn from other economic models, as long as you don't nitpick based on your political ideology.
One I frequently hear is that we should imitate the Nordic countries' relatively gentle, rehabilitation-focused criminal justice systems.

That works in relatively homogeneous, close-knit societies that aren't terribly urbanized, where everyone knows everyone and there's a sense of shared community. Your average criminal in that scenario is a hurt individual who's troubled and needs help.

It's far less practical in massive urban areas where there's an utter lack of any sense of family or community because everyone's part of a teeming anonymous crowd and it's every man for himself. It's one thing to restore a sense of social responsibility and empathy in a person who has lost his way. It's another to try to build it from scratch where it never existed because there's little if anything the criminal has in common with society.

Many in one group I frequent described, e.g., Sweden's response to migrant sexual assault cases as "cucked." I pointed out that the real issue wasn't that the Swedish criminal justice system was deliberately going light on migrants in particular. Rather, the Swedish criminal justice system overall was designed for Swedish criminals, who were relatively mild. They didn't have mechanisms in place to handle a different sort of crime--one where the criminal is utterly lacking in empathy due to alienation.

The US once had a very conscientious criminal justice system, as well. The harsh mechanisms we now how in place--the criminal justice meat grinder--is a direct result of a shift in the structure of society. Industrialization and urbanization caused a crime wave, and the public made an outcry to do something about it. Next you know, there's police brutality and mass incarceration.

Another example that I've frequently heard liberals parrot is that the government should pay for college in America like many European countries do.

Okay, are we going to do everything else Europe does with respect to college?

Are we going to have stringent standards for admission? If we want to have the taxpayers foot the bill for college degrees, maybe we shouldn't be lowering admission standards in the name of diversity and inclusion, such that borderline illiterate students are going to college.

Are we going to have rigorous criteria for what qualifies as a legitimate degree program? If we're going to ask the taxpayers to invest in educating the next generation, maybe we should be expecting marketable skills that will offer a return on that investment. The people who say we should follow the European model and have taxes cover degrees are rarely STEM majors or people seeking trade certifications. It's usually Lesbian Studies or some shit.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
Page 5 of 8 « First<34567>Last »


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.03 seconds of which 0.005 seconds were spent on 29 queries. Zlib compression disabled.